[In a discussion on the lack of effectiveness of prayer when faced with tornadoes]
Jesus didn't tell us to call directly on him. He said to call on his father in his name. That's why he refers to himself as the mediator between himself and God.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
So technically, those prayers mentioned on this thread were being directed at the Son while the Son tells us clearly to direct our prayers to his Father in his name. A simple basic teaching-among a host of others-which mysteriously appears to be beyond the comprehension of most who claim to have accurate knowledge.
[Remember that, kids. If you're dumb enough to call the wrong number when calling for help, you deserve to die by tornado.]
50 comments
In other words, the spell has to be cast exactly right, or it's worthless. Got it.
Funny thing, though -- with undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people praying for aid in such circumstances, you'd think at least ONE of them would get it right! So I guess we shouldn't blame God that prayers don't get answered -- we should blame his incompetent worshippers.
~David D.G.
as stated above this is a prime example of religious (for lack of a better term) logic.
This way, if it doesn't work, say they were praying to Jesus instead of God, because God is the one with the power. But if they did it the other way, they were supposed to pray to Jesus, after all, he's the mediator, and you gotta follow the chain of command.
Or maybe when you asked your god to save your life, or the lives of your loved ones, he picked his no, or wait answers. Stand up chap that god of yours.
On a side note, wouldn't praying to the wrong target be idolatry, or worshiping another god before?
Maybe next time, give the whole "Elohim" a prayer, not just one "Eloi".
This brings up an interesting point, the way things are said here, Jesus isn't God, but people worship Jesus, thus breaking the First Commandment.
exactly. Christianity, whether they want to admit it or not, is polytheistic. And they even over look the mis translations where it /should/ say about more than one deity.
Jesus is the new Golden Calf.
Remember this kids, if you waste your time praying to non-existent beings for your trailer to be spared from a tornado instead of getting the hell out of its path, the odds of you dying are overwhelming.
antichrist: anyone who lets them hate, kill, berate, or otherwise attack people they don't like while simultaneously telling them that anyone else who does such things is evil, but they'll be blessed for enduring it by denying that they ever engage in such activities.
Hold on a minute here.
This is where that whole trinity thing breaks down. If God is Jesus is the Holy Ghost, then, technically, you could pray any of the three, and it would still be the same god.
Then there is ITimothy2:5, quoted above, which contradicts the entire trinity concept.
Someone explain that to me again, please.
I have always wondered about people who say they prayed to get out of a bad situation...like cancer or a car wreck or even to find a kidnapped loved one...and their prayers were answered. I mean, if their god is such a good oke, why are their babies born with malformed hearts, why do their 6-year-olds get leukemia, why is their father and breadwinner mangled in an industrial accident, why is an entire town wiped out in a tornado? Can't their god, who supposedly knows everything before it happens and has the power to create worlds, prevent these catastrophes? Or are these horrible events his way of making people turn to him and beg for his boon?
Either way, the dude seems really unhinged and not someone I'd want in my life, let alone adore and worship!
Anon: The way it works is they're allowed to contradict themselves, or even their god to reach their ends. They aren't allowed to worship or pray to anyone but god, so the other two are part of god. However, they're clearly mentioned as separate entities within their bible, so they are separate from god. When someone points out that these are mutually exclusive, it's ok, because god is so far ahead of us, being perfect and all (I'd like the citation on that one) and HE knows how it all works, and that's all that matters.
Violet: Yeah, it would appear that this god, who wants people to come to him willingly, is ready to resort to drastic means to force people to. Even if it's all the doing of the devil, isn't knowledge of a crime without any act to prevent it still illegal? If you know someone is going to kill someone else, and you go about your day, you're not exactly keeping up.
How's that go again...
If God is capable of stopping evil, but not willing, he is not benevolent.
If he is willing, but not capable, then he is not omnipotent.
If he is neither willing nor capable, why call him god?
And didn't he also tell something like "nobody comes to the father except by me"?. So, he is God, and he's human but.........well, forget it, I know what you're thinking. Of course, even if they had prayed to the father, and the tornado had hit anyway, they would say that their sins were too big for the prayer to be listened to or that he is testing their faiths.
This is awesome ^^
I just imagine god sitting in heaven, looking down while thousands die, going:
'No'
'No - close though, but MY name'
'No again - I do so enjoy watching them suffer'
Like a sadistic gameshow host. What the hell is WRONG with you people. Also, do I detect just that little hint of smugness there?
'They died because they were too ignorant to pray correctly. Sucks to be them eh?.'
You are so damn stupid it scares me.
Oh I see. It's an administrative error on Heaven's part, is it?
"Hello? No sorry, you've got the wrong extention. No, it's God you'll want for that. Mm-hm. Ok. Well if you'll just hold i'll put you through."
*Hold music: Ave Maria*
Ah, the mysteries of the Trinity.
Seriously, praying to Jesus isn't Christian now? Who'd have thought it?
This guy probably doesn't even see that the verse in question clearly states that Jesus is a man, not God.
Then they ridicule Catholics for praying to Mary.
I've never tried to pray away a tornado, yet one has never hit my house.
Maybe you are just angering him by asking for petty crap Øyvind?
Strange that this one should come up right now. I was in a cafe in Limoux (nearest town to where I live ) this morning and there was an English Language paper in the rack, so I took it tohave a brief skim through it over a coffee.
One of the headlines was about a very young kid who was taken by the wind and deposited about 100 metres away. People searching initially thought it was a doll, then somene reaised he was alive. His mom, sadly, had been killed.
For me, the great irony was that some brainless (pardon the vernacular language) fuckwit attributed the saving of the child's life to divine intervention. I mean, his mother had just been killed!
Who the hell caused the tornado? Who caused the mother's death, who cause the sense of loss and grief - the suffering - that this kid will have? Divine intervention. Who else. What kind of stupid is it that excuses divine intervention for killing a child's mother and injuring the child, while still sparing his life? This is criminal lack of intelligence. Only a fundie is capable of accepting such a paradox as a sign of divine mercy. Mercy my arse!
Do I have this right? I should end-run the Son, who will ignore my prayers, and go directly to the Father, who will also ignore them?
That's why you have to have your followers do something in order for you to work a miracle, otherwise e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e would be praying. I prefer bloodshed...but I'm a norse god, we dig bloodshed...and wine...
MORE WINE !!!
Who the hell calls for help when a tornado coming?
What are the people you are supposedly calling supposed to do exactly?
"Hi is this the emergency sevices"
"Yes please state the nature of your emergency"
"Well theres a tornado heading staight for my house, what do I do."
"Uhh heres a clue for you RUN FOR YOUR FUCKIN LIIIIIIFFFE!!!!!
Okay then, what's your god's real name then? And what language will he understand it in best? See, that's why it helps to name your diety (and stick to one name so it's not Yahweh and El, and God and Father and many others, Allah included).
"Sorry, but the deity you are praying to is currently unavailable, please try again later."
Jesus comes back home.
"You have, five trillion messages !", said the answering machine.
"AWWW, come on ! I only went to get some fuckin' milk, can't these humans get anything done on their own. FUCK!", said Jesus.
[Remember that, kids. If you're dumb enough to call the wrong number when calling for help, you deserve to die by tornado.]
Yeah, because I'm sure that radrook would be able to press exactly the right buttons while a tornado rips the walls from his house.
Hm, a Oneness Pentecostal, no doubt. (If this individual belongs to a Trinitarian church, I'd have to wonder why.)
I thought for a while radrook was snarking, but it seems that he is attempting further down to justify prayer not working with the "God Works In Mysterious Ways" argument. It's like watching someone trying to pound in a screw with an inflatable hammer.
Xotan:
To the extent that such thinking is justifiable, it's essentially a poor attempt at humility. So many Americans are so thoroughly convinced of the supremacy of God that the idea that any good thing is the result solely of human ingenuity or just dumb luck is actually blasphemous to them.
As far as the child losing his mother... confirmation bias, in a rather ugly and Pollyannaish form. The irony that most forms of Christianity are basically bondage and discipline religions plastered with threats of divine judgement doesn't really enter into it here.
So it's not that God didn't pick up the phone. It's that you dialed the wrong number.
*Eyeroll* Uh huh. Looks like another worthless excuse to getting no answer for me. Why don't you come back when you have the *real* reason? (Hint: It's because he doesn't exist, or doesn't care.)
But, I thought that jesus was god. So that would mean you pray to him, in his name, through him. Oh, I get it, it's that MPD that god has showing through again. Ok.
@ somegie
Maybe next time, give the whole "Elohim" a prayer, not just one "Eloi".
Eloi? The blonde people in "The Time Machine" ?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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