You guys are ducking the HBD angle. HBD says that IQ and athletic ability are largely heritable, with group differences and policy implications. The same can be said for personality traits, and they are almost as important as IQ. Isn’t it possible that Chinese students have personality traits that make them less desirable at Harvard?
The NY Times gives the impression that personality is just a bogus excuse for discriminating against Asian-Americans. But what is the truth? Is it possible that the Harvard admissions folks are accurately judging real and important traits?
Denying the reality of these traits seems just as absurd as denying the reality of IQ. On the other hand, I have no idea whether Harvard can judge these personality traits reasonably.
7 comments
I don't see how you can judge personality traits without a cultural framework for judging them, and I don't see how any conclusions can be made from a whiny little post that just sneers and asks questions. However Harvard is a special case, where they have their pick of bright students from all over the world but must save a little room for kids with wealthy fathers.
For those who don't know, HBD="Human Bio-Diversity", the latest attempt to dress up racism as science, this time focussing on pop psychology and evo psycho.
@Pharaoh Bastethotep
Seriously? Sigh. Well, as is always the case with racism/modern equivalent, they don't even try to give us any evidence for their assertions. IQ is not an indicator of the sum of human intelligence, nor has it ever been shown to be particularly heritable. The same goes for athletic prowess and personality traits. And how does all of this even relate to racial ideas? But of course, just saying "It is like this because I want it to be like this" is always an indicator of great science (sarcasm).
Also: Not using the word "shit" and instead using the word "excrements" for body waste doesn't mean that it isn't still shit. Same goes for racism and "race realism", "HBD" etc.
@ChrisBP747
IQ is not an indicator of the sum of human intelligence
Hell, when I had an IQ test as part of getting the diagnosis for my Asperger's, the results (112 or 113 I think) were EXPLICITLY noted to be much lower than my actual intelligence due to the deficits in certain areas.
@Pharaoh Bastethotep
Yeah, unsurprisingly I'm not really a fan of IQ becoming this go to "measurement" of intelligence that it is always portrayed as. Hell, I actually scored rather high when I was tested (my head teacher recommended it to my parents) but I'm aware that it doesn't mean much in regards to actual intelligence (whatever that concept really entails). Racists also seem to be in love with the concept, probably because they like to use culture-insensitive test data to "prove" that non-whites are somehow "dumber". Rule of thumb: Never trust a simple measurement to fully reflect such a complex trait as "intelligence".
Funny, if that HBD says anything, you'd guess it had a page of its own on Wikipedia. Instead you get to Human genetic variation, which basically says that no two humans are genetically identical. IQ is a measurement, which varies from one test method to the other and from one time in history to the other. What it generally measures is how well a subject can answer certain questions, not cognitive abilities, such as memory, attention and speed.
I'd guess that athletic ability is mostly nurture, rather than nature.
Personality traits are MORE important than IQ.
Yes, it's possible that SOME Chinese students have personality traits that make them less desirable at Harvard, but that's also true about SOME British students.
Personality is NOT an excuse AT ALL for discriminating against groups of people. Personality is individual, not a group thing.
As I'm not in the top percentage regarding education, I've never given the Harvard admission policy a thought. I'd guess they look at applicants' earlier grades, and also on interests and potentials, and of course the parents' bottom line.
Roger: "Isn’t it possible that Chinese students have personality traits that make them less desirable at Harvard? It is, after all, only people LIKE ME that are different from one another when it comes to personality traits. Everyone ELSE are YMOYMTA - You Met One, You Met Them All!!"
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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