God ordained the torture of Christ for our benefit. So that one day we may be so lucky as to see the kingdom of heaven. The torture of Christ on the cross came for a greater benefit. It saved all who profess faith in him.
Torture, if used to benefit the greater good and save American lives, isn't morally wrong. However, it should only be reserved for when it is known that a terrorist has information that would save American lives. We have to be very careful with the people we decide to waterboard, and so far the government has done it's job.
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God ordained the torture of Christ for our benefit. So that one day we may be so lucky as to see the kingdom of heaven. The torture of Christ on the cross came for a greater benefit. It saved all who profess faith in him.
Torture, if used to benefit the greater good and save American lives, isn't morally wrong. However, it should only be reserved for when it is known that a terrorist has information that would save American lives.
We have to be very careful with the people we decide to waterboard, and so far the government has done it's job
Well, I guess we know why he's a lonesome Texan: nobody wants to hang out with an asshole like this.
Go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.
From what I've read of the Bible, God is allowed to do things that people aren't. Your theological argument is unsound.
Pull away from theology, and you're just sadistic.
We'll use the Quantum Terrorist Information detector -
If they don't have information, nothing will happen and they'll set be free.
If they do have information, we can torture half of them to obtain that information.
The other half will detonate.
First, your Jesus was not the only one crucified by the Romans. It was a common punishment for those deemed criminals by Roman law.
Second, the country and the Constitution I swear allegiance to does not condone torture. Think it through and see what you and the people you worship really are.
Per Osama bin Ladin:
Torture, if used to benefit the greater good and to end American lives, isn't morally wrong. However, it should only be reserved for when it is known that it would end American lives.
Torture is immoral from the start. One of two things occur when you torture someone. They either snap and give you information of all manner to stop the torture (Therefore the US actually have a man who claims to have done everything from plan the bombing of the USS Cole to 9/11 to 7/7 to probably being Elvis.) Or they clam up to screw their torturer over. I.e by letting out false information on purpose.
Torture is torture. Once you commit it, you are no better than the next hell hole in the world where torture is rampant. You lose any moral high ground to speak off.
So, the reverse must be true too. Remember that Jesus was the main character in the story so, would you mind if we torture you?. And by the way, if they already know they're terrorist, why torturing them?. If they have reached that conclusion, it means they have all the information they need without torture.
If Jesus's life was exceptional in so many cases, his torture and death was EXCEPTIONAL too. Because, you know, the tortured, not the torturer, was Jesus. If we had to follow the rule to the letter, it should be the believer who should be tortured(and be born through artificial insemmination, for that matter)
Except that it has been proven countless times that tortured information is almost certain to be inaccurate information. That's the reason that during the Dark Ages so many people confessed to 'magic' and other things that were impossible for them to have done.
To quote Cpt Jean-Luc Picard:
'Torture has never been a reliable means of extracting information. It is ultimately self-defeating as a means of control. One wonders why it is still practiced.'
There... are... FOUR... lights!
Presumably that also means Americans may also be tortured with equal right by those who are their enemies, so that they too can protect themselves. Well hooray for Americans being tortured say the Iraqis!
Logic is not your stong point, ef?
"God ordained the torture of Christ for our benefit."
Why? This is the question i've never gotten an answer to. Why would an all-powerful deity have to go through these channels, and jump through these hoops, just to get the universe into a certain state?
"so far the government has done it's job."
The job of a government includes torturing people?
LonesomeTexan to room 101, that's LonesomeTexan... room 101.
[Upon being (slightly) tortured]
"I kidnapped the Lindbergh baby"
">I< - I am JOSEPH MENGELE!"___________Ernest P. Worrell
QUOTE OSIRUS: "I think you've seen too much 24."
I agree, and this is coming from Jack Bauer himself.
"God ordained the torture of Christ for our benefit." God sacrificed Himself to Himself to give Himself permission to change a rule that He Himself had written.
"However, it should only be reserved for when it is known that a terrorist has information that would save American lives." You first. I know that you have information that would save American lives. What is that information, you ask? That's what we have to torture you to find out.
Lonesome Texan?
Bwahahahahahehehe!
Yeah, even when I was an innocent Catholic boy many years ago, I never understood the ridiculous notion that "God" would kill his "son" to save humanity. What the fuck is that all about?
The simple answer is that it is a way of thinking that came from a very different world, one in which life was brutally short and people had no understanding of how nature works.
I understand that the "passion of the Christ" followed a Roman custom, in this case ordained by the Pharisees, not g0d. Quite similar to Socrates being convicted to death by his enemies, in that both of them accepted the inevitable.
Any child knows that the threat of pain causes one to lie. Isn't that how we all learned to lie? Tell them what they want to hear.
The neocon regime has managed to negate the more noble dreams and values of the founding fathers. "It has done its job"?!?
Assholes. They grow them bigger in Texas, too.
Ok, I think I'm having an attack of stupid, here. Do I have this right?
Father tortures his son to save his other children from...from what? From him? How does that work? Jesus gets tortured for our sins so we can sin all we want because we won't get punished for it because Jesus is our scapegoat and he gets all the lashes?
No...if we are bad and commit sins, even though Jesus died for those sins, we go to hell anyway?
Then why is Jesus on that cross and why is he being tortured up there for my sins if I'm gonna go to hell anyway?
So isn't the whole thing kinda pointless? I mean, it doesn't look like we are benefiting from it at all, ya know?
Just like there is no real benefit in torturing anyone, since they'll say anything...including any lie the torturer wants to hear...to get the torture to stop.
The whole thing just looks like gratuitous sadism to me.
"Christian love" seems a very scary thing to me.
Re: "I see that the Ministry of Love has a supporter -- probably because he cannot conceive of being the object of its attention himself." (David D G)
"And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
"And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
"And then they came for me... And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
-- Pastor Martin Niemöller
So God couldn't save us unless we tortured someone to death?
(a) if God were omnipotent, He could "save" anyone any time He wants;
(b) if God were benevolent, why would He want some innocent person tortured?
Therefore, the Christian God is either a weakling who is incapable of "saving" humanity without human help, or he is some kind of hateful weirdo who has to be bought off by entertaining Him with torturing someone.
Oh my god, I laughed so hard I shat my pants.
I do now understand you name LonesomeTexan. It's because your a loon.
You are talking about the same American government that lied about WMD's and Iraqi ties to 9/11 to get us in the war, and then pre-sold it to war-profiteers with heavy GOP contributions, right? Are you a total dolt or a GOP toadie apologist?
I understand that the "passion of the Christ" followed a Roman custom, in this case ordained by the Pharisees, not g0d.
Well...ordained by the Romans, with maybe some Pharisee lobbying. The whole central role in the process given to the Pharisees (up to and including the cross being built in the temple courtyard) was a product of modern (19th century, I think?) anti-Semitism.
"Torture, if used to benefit the greater good and save American lives , isn't morally wrong."
All men are created equal...it's just that Americans are more equal than everyone else.
Thsnks for the insight, Tex. Too bad your philosophy is employed by the other side as well. But, hell, that's life, eh?
So God loved the world that he had his only begotten son, who was himself, tortured to death, to pay himself for the sins his own creations committed against him. Great system.
So Al Queda is Jesus now?
And what about the non terrorists, the innocent joe Achmed Schmoes that simply got labeled as terrorists because they were to Muslim looking?
Of course this isn't' even going into whether torture works or what it does to a national psyche that decides losing our humanity is an acceptable loss.
To avoid a Nazi reference, I'm going to say it this way:
Gulags, if used to benefit the greater good and save Soviet lives isn't wrong, but should only be used for terrible scum of the earth that are against Mother Russia. We have to be very careful with the people we decide to send off to gulags, and so far the government has done it's job.
Yeah...
Because, of course, an American life is so much more important than the life and dignity of an Arab, right?
You disgusting, morally degenerate redneck fuck. You are the cancer that is killing the human race.
INQUISITOR: All right, Jesus, talk!
JESUS: Never!! Aaaaaagh!
INQUISITOR: Prehaps you'd be more willing to talk if we drove a nail through your other hand...
JESUS: All right! All right! I give up! ... It was the People's Front of Judea who sabotaged the Colloseum.
INQUISITOR [scratching his head]: You sure you don't mean the Judean People's Front?
God ordained the torture of Christ for our benefit. So that one day we may be so lucky as to see the kingdom of heaven.
The torture of Christ on the cross came for a greater benefit. It saved all who profess faith in him.
Torture, if used to benefit the greater good and save American lives, isn't morally wrong.
However, it should only be reserved for when it is known that a terrorist has information that would save American lives.
We have to be very careful with the people we decide to waterboard, and so far the government has done it's job.
And don't you think that the Iraquis would use the same reasoning when torturing Americans?. After all, despite what this guy says in other posts, that they do it to promote their psycho ideas, they live in countries where, thanks to the American interference in their business, are living in hell and they think, however mistaken they are, that they're fighting for their rights. And talking about Iraq, who invaded them in the first place?. Torture is bad, end of the story.
Torture is useless for a number of reasons that have been demonstrated in history. To begin with, a person under such pression would confess to ANYTHING, just to please their torturers, be it true or not. If the guys who torture have been able to gather enough information to get those guys but not to be certain, the ones who are powerless are, in reality, the torturers, NOT THE TORTURED. Unless they were 100% sure that the guys they're torturing are genuine terrorists, witches or whatever and have relevant information that can be extracted through that and, moreover, that the information they give is accurate(if it's not, what do they have to lose?), it just doesn't work.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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