mdancin4theLord #fundie

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You had a picture of buttons with sayings on them......
One said........Pro-family, pro-children, pro-choice.

This is laughable. You can't be pro-choice and say that you are pro-children. The fact that you are a pro-abort...based on choice....says that you want abortion LEGAL SO THAT SOME WOMEN HAVE THE CHOICE TO KILL.

You are not pro-life...pro-children.....you are pro-abortion.

It is sad to know to think that you would be pro-abortion even until natural delivery. So so sad. You say no woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy that she does not want to continue....this would also mean you would condone a late term abortion. I mean playin devils adovacate here....you would not want to enslave someone who does not want to be pregnant...right? It would be hypocritical to say your pro-choice and deny any woman the right to kill......throughout the entire nine months.
How sad, especially because you say you are a Christian.

Would you mind showing me scripture and making Gods case for abortion.

63 comments

old comment by The Jamo

Ahem, let me see if i can put it in terms that you can comprehend. A woman's body is her own and she should be able to decide what happens to it. This is not about killing children; it's about allowing women the coice to terminate a dangerous or unwanted pregnancy. This does not mean that they will exercise this right every time they're pregnant... in fact most women probably won't, and no one will be forced to do anything. The only thing that will change is that a woman, any woman, will be allowed to LEGALLY choose what happens to her own body. You can most definitely be pro-children and pro-choice, as being pro-choice says nothing about how you feel about children and much about how you feel about women's rights.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything or to have or abort your children. All that we're asking is that you respect people's right to choose.

old comment by Anon2

Would you mind showing me scripture and making Gods case for abortion.

At your service:

- According to the Bible, abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life. When an assault on a woman causes a miscarriage, the assaulter is only punished for the effect of the attack on the woman:

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

- The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old:

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

- Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons as of the Bible:

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

old comment by Meishayuri

Pregnancy is not a "miracle of life", nor is a fetus a "precious gift" from "god". Fertilization of an ova is a science. The fetus is parasitic as it cannot subsist on its own without the host. The fetus is unable to have thought processes, feel pain, and be aware of its surroundings. It is impossible. A baby is parasitic until it is able to do things for his or her own benefit. Raising a child is more than an 18 year commitment. It is a lifetime commitment. There are thousands of unwanted children circulating through the foster care system in America with no families to permanently accept them as their own because abortion is wrong. If your cared about children and their quality of life, you would be able to see that the pro-life stance isn't pro-life or pro-family at all.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"You had a picture of buttons with sayings on them......"

image image

"You can't be pro-choice and say that you are pro-children."

As far as you lot are concerned, it's 'Save the unborn child!'. But once the cord's cut, and said child is a separate, living, breathing individual, it's all bets off. So no hypocrisy on your part, nosiree. [/hyper-sarcasm]

Besides, I thought the 'Pro-Life' stance was purely Catholic doctrine? You lot are Protestants who are supposed to oppose Popery in all it's vile forms, are you not?

So why are you Protestant fundies trying to out-Catholicise the Catholic Church?

"Would you mind showing me scripture and making Gods case for abortion."

Okay (emphasis added):

Hosea 13:16: 'Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.'

The phrase 'Be careful what you wish for' exists for a reason. You lot always bang on about 'God's 'truth'. Well, if the 'truth' hurts, that little titbit of Scripture is more than infinite pain, inflicted in the most unimaginably hideous ways, by the Cenobites in the "Hellraiser" films.

image

'We have eternity to know your flesh.'

-Pinhead (Doug Bradley), "Hellraiser"

old comment by shykid

No one is "pro-death" or even "pro-abortion," not even pro-choice people, you dumbfuck. (Well, okay, I'm sure there's at least a couple of sick and demented folks who are "pro-abortion," but they're irrelevant and just as fundie as you, as are any people who are "pro-death.")

I am 100% pro-choice, but I will also shamelessly admit that I think abortion is a tragedy, and it should be usedat least ideallyonly as measure of last resort. That said, the consequences of not having abortion rights are even more tragic than abortion itself, so abortion rights are ultimately a "lesser of two evils" kind of thing. Still, I would honestly love to see the day when abortion is unnecessary except in cases of rape and danger to the mother's health.

However, most of you "pro-life" people seem less interested in that idea. Specifically, abortion can be easily kept at a bare minimum with lots of sex education and free, easy access to contraceptives for everyone, but most of you "pro-lifers" are dead-set against that, even though a lack of access to sex education and contraceptives naturally results in more abortions. This also goes to show that most of you don't really care about preventing abortion as much as you care about making sure that women (and, to a lesser extent, men) "pay the price" for "spreading their legs" and being "sluts." For that very reason, most of you loathe the mere idea of consequence-free sex, apparently more than you like the idea of greatly reducing the current number of abortions.

old comment by Headache

Fucking morons - abortions how do they work?

These imbeciles seems to be completely void of any contact with reality. Here is what happens in countries where abortion is illegal:
1. If you are rich, you travel to a country where abortion is legal and have it there.
2. If you are poor, you go to a backstreet "abortion-clinic" and have a risky life threatening cloth hanger abortion.

Making abortions illegal will not stop people from having abortions, just skew society even more then what it is today.

I'm happy to be a citizen of a country where abortions have not been an issue since the 1960's and where they are paid for by the UHC system and the number of abortions have been steadily declining over the years - it is a non-issue, except for in dumbass USA!

old comment by

This has nothing to do with killing. Fetuses cannot be aborted after a certain number of weeks, so when they are aborted the feel no pain as they have not developed the ability to do so yet. They also have not developed a conscience. To simplify it for you, late term abortion is not an issue here, and abortion is not murder.

"Would you mind showing me scripture and making Gods case for abortion."
Why don't you show me the verse in the bible where your god speaks out against it? Actually, it just so happens that I can find a verse in favor of it.

Hosea 13:16 (King James Version(because I know how much you fundies love it)) "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
What do you have to say to that?

old comment by Alencon

It's been my experience that the so-called "pro-life" crowd only cares until the baby is born. After that he or she often simply becomes another welfare cheat.

I might also point out the old saying that someone's rights end where another's begin. The state has an interest, or a right, associated with the developing child and an interest in protecting the mother. That implies that at some point in the pregnancy the choice is no longer solely in the mother's hands. At some later point the fetus has developed to a point where it is viable without the mother and has rights as well. At that point the mother now has no choice at all.

Therefore your "entire nine months" argument is one big fail.

old comment by Wyzard

Shykid said

However, most of you "pro-life" people seem less interested in that idea. Specifically, abortion can be easily kept at a bare minimum with lots of sex education and free, easy access to contraceptives for everyone, but most of you "pro-lifers" are dead-set against that, even though a lack of access to sex education and contraceptives naturally results in more abortions. This also goes to show that most of you don't really care about preventing abortion as much as you care about making sure that women (and, to a lesser extent, men) "pay the price" for "spreading their legs" and being "sluts." For that very reason, most of you loathe the mere idea of consequence-free sex, apparently more than you like the idea of greatly reducing the current number of abortions.

Well said indeed. Bravo!!

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Doubting Thomas

"Until all you so-called "pro-life" people start campaigning against the death penalty and express genuine disdain and anger over people who shoot abortion-providing medical personnel in cold blood, you have no right to call yourself "pro-life."

(*Goes into Doug Piranha mode*):

Oh, the reason why 'Pro-Lifers' don't campaign against the death penalty, is because they're too busy looking after all the unwanted babies in the world, due to their wish - via legislation - that abortion be banned under any & all circumstances (including rape; even of underage girls).

[/hyper-sarcasm]

...oh yes, that's right. They're not, and it doesn't exist, respectively. Because of their own hypocrisy, and Roe vs. Wade, respectively.

old comment by John

This is laughable. You can't be pro-choice and say that you are pro-children.

You can't be pro-children and say you are against birth control or sex education, or against providing health care for children. But oddly enough, the people who are against abortion are also against all of these things. Because they're not pro-children. They're anti-sex. They oppose abortion for the same reason they oppose birth control, sex education and help for poor children: they believe that an unwanted child is a deterrent to having sex for fun, and sex education, birth control, abortion and help for poor people are all ways for people to avoid the "punishment of an unwanted pregnancy" that is due them for the "sin" of engaging in sex for fun.

old comment by Swede

Women should also be free to choose to continue the pregnancy if they want to. "Choice" implies at least two alternatives, ya know.

There's a natural time-limit when the growing fetus have developed enough nervous system to feel pain and to perhaps be aware, and another time-limit when the fetus could be viable on its own outside the womb. Most countries that have legal abortions place a limit on abortions sometime during the beginning of the second trimester for voluntary abortions. Women have to decide early on whether they want to stay pregnant or not.

If the fetus endangers the life of the mother at a later stage, the life of the woman is given higher priority than the life of the fetus.
If the fetus might be viable, it is removed using a c-section.

In Sweden we have brain death as the legal death concept. Early embryos don't have a brain yet, ergo they are not "alive" in the legal sense, and can therefore not be killed.

Why don't you produce God's case against abortions?
If God is so against abortions, why did he make it so that somewhere around 50-90% of all fertilized eggs are flushed out in spontaneous abortions?

old comment by ConservativeCommunist

While i am personally opposed to abortion, and i DO find it to be an oxymoron when some one who is pro-abortion says im "pro-family, pro-Children", i have to ask:

if you all advocate the choice to kill, then why does the government and society look down on people who choose to commit suicde? Its that persons own body right? So if a person and im not talking about euthanasia now, wants to kill themselves, would all you pro-abortionists, be hypocritical for NOT supporting on demand suicde? For supporting the governments ability to institutionalize suicidal people?

We allow abortion, but it is legal (mandated actually) for an officer, Dr, or anyone else to commit some one suspected of being suicidal? Sounds like society needs to make up its mind? Does the "its my body i can do what i want with it" argument apply to suicide (not euthanasia) as well? Just saying. if you agree, then fine, at least you are consitent, not a hypocrite.

Anyways...cue in the accusations of me being a troll be cause i its a contradiction interms tocall ones self Pro -choice (aka pro-abortion) and pro-family/pro children....guess im not touting the party line on this website.

old comment by Extraintrovert

@ConservativeCommunist

An embryo is not a person, at least not initially. Until a certain point it isn't even capable of feeling pain, it isn't until a later point that it gains sapience, and it isn't until later than that it can even support its own biological processes, being technically a parasite. Furthermore, while both abortion and suicide concerns an individual being able to make a decision regarding their body the former is FAR less severe and final than the latter. Comparing abortion and suicide demonstrates either supreme ignorance on both subjects and/or willful deception.

Secondly, suicide is almost always due to psychological problems and/or physiological imbalances, simply a symptom of underlying issues rather than an actual desire for the person to end their life (and while it doesn't count for much, I can speak from personal experience about that). The desire for an abortion can also be due to this, but not only is it rarer but it is also the reason why there are safeguards in place and counseling available to prevent such a thing occurring.

Finally, certain forms of suicide ARE considered as being allowed, but it's called euthanasia and both applies only to a specific set of circumstances and is only considered after much deliberation. So clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about.

old comment by ConservativeCommunist

@Extraintrovert

I wasnt talking about euthanasia, just plain old, "i hate my life" suicide. Im not going to continue an argument since the premise of your argument is the key to me not agreeing with anything you say "fetus not alive". However i will add that suicide is NOT always psychologically based. Is it really that hard to believe that some people want to die, that are NOT terminally ill?

Im just saying why get all high and mighty about suicde and then support abortion? But as i pointed out this is a non starter argument.

I still think you cant possibly be pro-family when you advocate abortion, which is what the pro-choice crowd does. Why dont we have a Pro-suicde on demand crowd too? Aperson who thinks treating a child or what will become a full grown child is nothing more than parasitic cells, can never call themselves pro-family.

Anyways thats my comment of the quarter. I'll leave you all to whine and complain about the comments of someone who probably doesnt even know they are being ridiculed...or cares for that matter.

Oh and for the record i am very much pro-suicide without limits; i think the government has no right to stop , intervene or aprevent a person from suicide, or to mandate Dr's to do so. Why? Because they are able to make that decision. An unborn child however is treated like a sack of crap.

mdancin4theLord #fundie christianforums.com

63 comments

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