[continuing his hard-on for the KJV]
If your original Hebrew disagrees with my original King James --- your original Hebrew is wrong. If your original Hebrew agrees with my original King James, your original Hebrew is right.
160 comments
So... a variation between the original manuscript (which would have been the original word of god) and an edited, rewritten version (done in a completely different language no less) means that the original manuscript, the first Christian Bible, is wrong? What? It's not like you've got scientific evidence backing up the authenticity of the King James Version versus the original Hebrew texts.
Amazing. Can't vote, the scale is inapplicable. If he was a fundy, he wouldn't hold this opinion. He's just a wannabe fundy, except for the fact he's too ignorant. Of his own religion, no less...
Noself, Star Cluster: They think that the KJV is the ONLY inspired Word of God (TM)? What the heck do these people think the previous versions of these books over the preceding centuries were -- God's uninspired rough drafts?
@"Dr. Major"
Note to everyone, original WRITTEN bible was in Aramaic, a precursor to Hebrew. AV1611VET .
First, no originals of any Bible books exist.
"If your original Hebrew disagrees with my original King James --- your original Hebrew is wrong."
I read a little more of the thread. Watching him do loop-the-loops trying to defend himself is the best part.
These are the same people who would tell us to re-examine our data when we point out that reality is different than the Bible (i.e., geocentric vs heliocentric solar system). Their minds are not only made up, they're closed.
So you're saying that even though the ORIGINAL HEBREW Bible came first, and the NEW KING JAMES VERSION is merely a translation with various inaccuracies, the ORIGINAL HEBREW VERSION is wrong? How does that even work?
The logic breaks down completely, though, because there are NO original manuscripts, in either Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek, just retranslations of translations.
Did this guy just forget what "original" meant for the course of the post? Because if so, he deserves a prize for doublethink.
The original Hebrew is a source for the king james bible, along with the greek sources for the new testament, not the other way around. Therefore, it is more authentic. The King James bible can't be more authentic than its source as much as a Chinese dubbed version of Star Wars can be more authentic than its original american-english source version.
Personally, I like the poetry of the KJV (which isn't surprising, since my area of focus in my Eng Lit degree is Shakespeare...), but I am well aware of the dangers of relying on only a single translation. So when I prepare lessons for my Biblical Lit & Study classes, I use multiple translations for every verse. I usually use the King James, the New International, the Beck Translation, and the Vulgate (thank God I decided to take Latin in High School instead of German like my friends did).
Fun Fact:
So, the doctrine that this person is talking about is that the KJV was divinely inspired and so when the KJV translation (and compilation - large chunks of it are from earlier English translations) was made, it became the official Word of God, and the previous versions, in whatever language, became obsolete. Yes, it's moronic. Some people even think that you need to teach people English so that they can read "The True Word of God". Riiiight.
Exactly how retarded are you anyway?
You know, this guy must be a genius with a philosophical breakthrough regarding Quine's radical indeterminacy of translation thesis.
A score of 5 is insufficient for this level of stupidity.Guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate."
I rest my case! All religions breed lunatics.
richardT: Please address the following points:DO you account for the fact that different versions of the Bible ARE in conflict with each other?
3. "I cannot trust the latin vulgate nor the westcott/hort cirtical greek text." Cannot trust them because you cannot read them? (No shame in not being able to read them -- few people can.) If not, what is the reason?
~David D.G.
richardT: Please address the following points:
1. The verse about bible preservation is in the OT.
King James Version (KJV)
Psalm 12:6-7
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalm 33:11
11The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Psalm 100:5
5For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
Psalm 111:7-8
7The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
Psalm 117:2
2For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
Psalm 119:89
89For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psalm 119:152
152Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Psalm 119:160
160Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Isaiah 40:8
8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 59:21
21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Matthew 5:18
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1 Peter 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Peter 1:25
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Revelation 22:18
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
2. I do not trust any english bible that was translated, even slightly, off of the Westcott and Hort critical greek text. Which includes every bible version except the King James Version.
3. I can not trust translations based on them.
How come, if the United States of America is the one true home of the People of God (according to fundies) then why are they relying on a book written for & by the old enemy (the Brits)?
The original was Aramaic. :b
For your information, Hebrew is nothing but an aramaic dialect..
This is further proof that the teachings of Christ, not to mention the entire bible, have become entirely irrelevant to Fundie Christians. If the bible does not further their militant agenda then they simply dismiss it.
And the really weird thing is that none of them really have a problem with this.
Zabu, if you're still reading:
Hebrew and Aramaic are sister languages -- both West Semitic. Hebrew originated as a dialect of southern Canaanite and is probably most closely related to Phoenician. Aramaic is a little further afield and originated more to the north, in Syria and Lebanon. (Oddly enough, it's still the spoken language of the Assyrians, whose ancestors spoke Akkadian 3000+ years ago -- an East Semitic language.) It happened to be the primary lingua franca of the region in Jesus' time and had supplanted Hebrew as a spoken language, as it would later be supplanted by Greek and then Arabic.
As for the Chick tract quoted upthread... oy vey. But Chick is a total tinfoil hatter anyway, so not really all that surprising. And AV1611VET is dumb as a brick, but that's no secret around here.
I'm a professional translator with roughly 15 years of experience. Were I to operate on this principle, I would soon have to ask "You want fries with that?" for a living.
There's a reason why scholars seek the oldest versions of ancient books, and it's not to point out the mistakes therein.
"IF JOHN THE BAPTIST USED THE KING JAMES VERSION,
ok,, the original is wrong, and the version retranslated from the previous, 2 languages removed is right? that makes about as much sense as fishing in a bucket
I give this guy 47 out of 5.
I get it- it took all the contradictory accounts, reconciled them into a single, definitive story, and established an altered history so that everything previous had effectively never been true, and the 'new' story had always been true.
No, wait, that was Crisis on Infinite Earths, this guy's just retarded.
one thing i like about Jews, they've never gone to war in the name of their god, but rather to defend their land, never to expand, only to retain.
Riiiiight... And jesus was American too, right? Blonde-haired, blue-eyed, english-speaking American?
You watch too much TV and your priest must be in the KKK.
Get a brain, THEN Get a life.
Is it just me, or did it sound like he was battling pokemon there for a second?
Beat that, king james version.
Original = fail.
Translated = win.
ah hell why not. Mormons believe that old joe smith "translated" the real book of abraham from a false egyptian funeral scroll, lol. Xstians gits stupidzer and stupidzer.
I just wish they would stop breeding :(
Aaaaand... what came first , o Emeritus Professor of Theology AV1611VET...?
PROTIP: The Greeks were determining that the Earth was spherical, when we ancient Britons were still pointing & screaming at that big yellow thing in the sky.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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