Human Hermaphrodites
Often in humans afflicted by hermaphroditism, one or both sets of organs are non-functional, and the condition is considered to be a birth defect, which can be caused by abuses of alcohol or drugs during pregnancy. The abnormality in humans occurs at exceedingly rare interval; the individuals in question are generally not able to reproduce through sexual intercourse.
Christianity teaches that all can be saved through Christ. In most cases, hermaphrodites are more male or more female. Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender and most hermaphrodites will then lead perfectly normal lives in Christ.
There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist, since hermaphrodism does not provide any reproductive or survival benefits. Human hermaphrodites therefore provide yet another challenge to Darwin's theories, often explained away by evolutionists as an "unfavorable" mutation, yet they are unable to explain its repeated occurrence over the ages.
Sigmund Freud held that all people were hermaphrodites while in the womb, and that this stage affected human psychology permanently. This view is contradicted by modern medical understanding of the process, however, where ultrasounds clearly indicate just one sex of the fetus.
60 comments
Starting from the end and working backward. . .
Well, actually, all embryos start out essentially female until the male chromosomes and hormones kick in and start changing the female(like) organs to male ones.
Freud is not exactly mainstream anymore. There are lots of more recent workers in psychology and they have made a great number of advances.
The occurrence of hermaphrodites is as low as it is BECAUSE it is maladaptive evolutionarily speaking. They continue to occur because the prenatal environment promotes it on occasion (by your own statement) and likely other factors. There's no need to try to explain repeated occurrences away (and stop it with this "Darwin's theories" crap, we don't use his ideas exclusively or even mostly anymore, we've added a lot to the body of knowledge since his time) because it would contradict our current understanding only if the incidences were very much greater than they are now. Even if that happened I would be unsurprised if it were found to be due to something that increases the hermaphrodite's indirect fitness, maybe by something like kin selection. It would not immediately invalidate all of evolutionary theory (although I'm sure you would say it does).
1 your concept of evolution fails
2 Your concept of herms fails.
I've a friend on SL that is one, and married to another female. They have two wonderful kids because they are able to reproduce.
Good god, this post struck me so hard with egotistical idiocy i forgot how to spell 'evolution'
I thought god looked down on his creation, and saw that it was good. If god allowed hermaphroditism, then he obviously love them, well, supposedly. But Freud is a quack, and most psychologists today don't really reference him much, because most of his theories have been debunked. So this fails miserably. I wonder why fundies don't study science texts any earlier than about 50 years ago. We've come a long way since then. Don't get stuck in the past. I'm surprised that fundies actually know how to use a computer.
Sigmund Freud held that all people were hermaphrodites while in the womb, and that this stage affected human psychology permanently.
Sigmund Freud however was not a biologist and thus was wrong. All humans, nay, all verberate animals are female, and require the "y" chromosome in order to become male. Also Freud's understanding of psychology is so old and backwards that he is really used any more by actual scientists.
Also there is a secular explanation that fits in with evolution to explain why hermaphrodites exist. Random mutations. They don't contribute to survival, so there aren't many of them, but it doesn't impede survival either, so they aren't completely extinct.
Also there are hermaphrodites with perfectly functioning genitalia who can reproduce. So this whole article is fail.
Actually, genetic deformities are exactly what you'd expect if life evolved through natural selection and Darwinian evolution. It would be, however, quite odd to find deformities in a designed being. See where I'm going with this?
P.s. People start out as females.
"n most cases, hermaphrodites are more male or more female. Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender"
Wel there wa s aguy who thought this. Dr. Money I think his name was. He figured he could take babies who were gender ambivalent, "fix them" by operations to one gender, and then had the parents treat them as that gender.
That is failed utterly is an under statement. Gender identity is not taught.
As for Creationist vs Evolution, hermaphrodites would speak against a designer then natural deviations. Evolution doesn't say that all traits are desirable, only that those that are desirable will survive to be passed to the next generation.
But what kind of designer would keep making people who biologically would be incapable of conforming to his plan?
IF a builder made houses without doors or windows, he would be considered a very poor builder and fired.
There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist, since hermaphrodism does not provide any reproductive or survival benefits.
That's why, in keeping with natural selection, hermaphrodites are rare. If hermaphrodism provided a reproductive or survival benefit, it would be common.
Sigmund Freud held that all people were hermaphrodites while in the womb
Well, sort of. All people start out as females. They get "masculinized" through an elaborate chain of hormones, each of which triggers the gene for the next one. If any one hormone is missing because the gene to manufacture it is defective, the chain breaks and you get someone with defective gender assignment. Google "intersex" for an idea of how many mistakes can and do get made. Often the fetus miscarries. Sometimes it doesn't. It depends on the error. Add 46 XX or 46 XY to the search for female and male errors, respectively.
Ultrasound doesn't "clearly indicate just one sex of the fetus". If the operator spots what they think is a penis, they say it's a boy. If not, they say it's a girl. Mistakes are made all the time.
"Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender and most hermaphrodites will then lead perfectly normal lives in Christ"
So, what, a hermaphrodite who hasn't been surgically "corrected" can't be a good Christian? They're hating on hermaphrodites now?
Kinda hypocritical, given how much they love Anne Coulter.......
Ultrasound doesn't "clearly indicate just one sex of the fetus". If the operator spots what they think is a penis, they say it's a boy. If not, they say it's a girl. Mistakes are made all the time.
This is absolutely true. I had multiple ultrasounds with my son because no one could figure out if he was a girl or a boy. The first ultrasound to see the sex was definitely boy, the next, they said he was absolutely a girl, and back and forth until I was 8 months pregnant and they finally got a good enough view to be sure he was a boy.
I'm still laughing at the ultrasound bit. Sure, they were a bit new at the time I was in the womb and they couldn't find a penis, but other factors - especially the quality of my strong, fast heartbeat - indicated a boy without question.
Well, I have a few questions: where is my penis and where did these D cups and monster periods come from then?
PS Oh and doesn't "mistakes are made" when genetic code is copied pretty much add to the bucket of evidence for evil-ution?
"There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist,"
Simple mutation, or in other animals where hermaphrodites are the norm, the ability to reproduce without having to find another of your species.
There you go, a "Darwinian" reason for it.
But oh wait:
"often explained away by evolutionists as an "unfavorable" mutation, yet they are unable to explain its repeated occurrence over the ages"
Oh, you caught us! Because everyone knows that once a mutation has happened, it can never happen again later, ever again, because it got used up from the Big Celestial Storehouse of Mutations located on the Astral Plains....
Clearly hermaphrodites must now obviously be the result of sin, or whatever it is you're claiming, because honestly, I wasn't paying attention once I saw it was from Conservapedia.
"where ultrasounds clearly indicate just one sex of the fetus"
I'm a woman (a straight woman, even) who was SUPPOSED to be twin boys. Put that in yer fuckin pipe and smoke it. Oh, and Siggy Freud was a drug addict who had to have repeated reconstructive surgeries on his mouth because of tobacco use, so I don't think anyone who matters really gives two shits what he thought. Yee-haw for fundie mental processes and prehistoric "medical" science.
"Christianity teaches that all can be saved through Christ. In most cases, hermaphrodites are more male or more female. Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender and most hermaphrodites will then lead perfectly normal lives in Christ."
Wrong. Back when the doctor used to make the gender assignment at birth many of the "boys" when they reached puberty preferred to be a "girl" and vice-versa. There's a hell of a lot more involved in gender identity than whether or not you have a penis or a vagina. Also the correct term is intersexual FYI.
You utter knob. The phrase "lives in Christ" is senseless, you might as well say "lives in Messiah."
After considerable waffle, you go on to say "There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist, since hermaphrodism does not provide any reproductive or survival benefits."
Exactly what reproductive or survival benefits do you provide? The point is, you have no choice in who your parents are. Do you need me to take it any further? Or can you work it out for yourself? I hope you can because it's cuppa tea time.
damn... all that spinning has made me dizzy. au contraire, human hermaphroditism proves that there is no intelligent design. and if there is a designer, he's a fucking idiot, and not worth worshipping. the fact that a human can come out with ambigous genetalia should precipitate you coming to the conclusion that human hormones, and in turn sexual attraction, may also be ambiguous or opposite of the norm.
[There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist, since hermaphrodism does not provide any reproductive or survival benefits. ]
That is why it's so rare.
Besides, their are over seven billion people living on this planet. We dont really need to reproduce as much.
"the individuals in question are generally not able to reproduce through sexual intercourse."
Cartmann's mom (who is technically his dad) would like to have a word with you.
"Christianity teaches that all can be saved through Christ. In most cases, hermaphrodites are more male or more female. Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender and most hermaphrodites will then lead perfectly normal lives in Christ."
Wait, I thought you Christian fundies said sex change operations were against God, because you are changing the way he created you. Then, wouldn't changing a hermaphrodite's sex to strictly male or female be a sin?
A complete fu**wit that has no more idea of what it is talking about than the neighbor's dog has of quantum mechanics.
Conservapedia = Ratbagapedia
EDIT
Ooh, I thought I had invented "Fu**witapedia" for "Conservapedia" but a Brit has beaten me to it. Pommy bast*rd.
Um... actually all embryos start out and will remain physically (phenotype) female unless exposed to male hormones. As in the case of the Barista boys, who didn;t have this exposure in the womb but did when they hit puberty, resulting in a natural sex change, in effect (or reversing one?) although of course, the genotype is always one or the other.
Evoltion is not perfect.
perfectly normal lives in Christ
oxymoron:
n:a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”
Love that shoehorning of anti-evolution (and completely wrong on so many levels) ideology in something completely unrelated . Speaks volumes about Conservapedia's mentality though.
"Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender and most hermaphrodites will then lead perfectly normal lives in Christ. "
Alright, but isn't there an idea out there that says that God makes you who you are from birth . So if someone was born a hermaphrodite wouldn't it be because God wanted them to be that way !? You don't want to mess with God's plan do you?
Okay...so why is it that a perfect God, who made man, and made woman, would make one that fits either both or neither, dependent on your view? Just a sick joke, or what? Not to mention it kinda kills the "multiply and be fruitful." And assigning him/her to his/her gender role would be difficult as well, no?
You said it's exceedingly rare, then said Evolution can't explain how common it is. That's a contradiction.
Hermaphroditism is maladaptive as most are sterile. There might be only a few on the planet with two fully functional sets of sexual organs
"hermaphroditism ... is considered to be a birth defect, which can be caused by abuses of alcohol or drugs during pregnancy."
Well...
"There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist..."
While there may not be a 'Darwinian reason', we have a non-Religious and scientific reason.
(Though I haven't done my research personally, they basically shot themselves in the foot.. More than once.)
Bzzzzz! Wrong. There is quite a good reason for the gene pool to produce hermaphrodites, and in fact it is not that rare. You make Jesus look bad saying such things.
Native Americans have an especially high rate of hermaphrodism, at least in the northeast. Early accounts written by scientists in the early colonies tell of large groups within the tribes of CT. Hermaphrodites are larger, stronger per pound than men or women, live longer, and are the calmest sex.
What could their benefit to the gene pool? ...their "Darwinian reason" as you say so judgmentally. To specialize in supporting the community. Humans are specialized animals. Like bees and ants, different people perform different tasks. In the end the group benefits. Hermaphrodites can perform many valuable funcions.
Due to confusion exemplified by the above 'article' hermaphrodites are suppressed, altered at birth and never made aware of their true sex, identity. How many of history's greats were hermaphrodites and either hid the fact or, in societies with sufficient surgical knowledge, never knew? Imagine how much better at your job you'd be without the constant distraction of your sexuality, your divided and dualistic state. You are never satisfied until you have some of the opposite, something you are intrinsically lacking (the opposite sex)? Hermaphrodites embody unity, and have notedly more peaceful demeanors.
The native americans held their hermaphrodites in high regard, giving them a special place in society. Their presence was definitely an evolutionary advantage.
Imagine that your precious Jesus of Nazereth were a hermaphrodite! He never married, or had sex - according to the modern version of the story. He was all about peace, tolerance, non-judgementalism, and promoted the cause of equality between men and women. Joan D'Arc? She was exceptionally strongand focused for a 16 year old girl in the peak of puberty, wasn't she? Here's a good one, mother Mary? She did apparently auto-I seminate, which is theoretically possible in cases so rare the chance of discovering a living example is not expected. O the mystery!!!
Open your mind and close your mouth. Some hermaphrodites will likely read your damned article and feel rather depressed to hear they have no "Darwinian reason" to exist. They surely do, and they are surely more useful to society than Christians are.
Have a nice day!
"There is no Darwinian reason for human hermaphrodites to exist, since hermaphrodism does not provide any reproductive or survival benefits."
So Darwinian theory would imply that any tendancy to hermaphrodism would be selected against, and the rate of the condition in the human population would be very small.
"The abnormality in humans occurs at exceedingly rare interval"
Which it is. Darwin 1 (gazillion) - Conservapedia 0.
"Christianity teaches that all can be saved through Christ. In most cases, hermaphrodites are more male or more female. Doctors can then perform operations shortly after birth to correct the child to the dominant gender and most hermaphrodites will then lead perfectly normal lives in Christ"
BZZZZZT! Wrong answer! What is presumed to be dominant at birth is not always dominant through life.Real Life Example: Me. (*gasp* a real one!) I'm more bi-gendered/masculine, and I was presumed female, (maybe I should sue the doctors, or my mom,)Oh, and I also prefer women, so my life is not "perfectly normal in Christ", as I'm allegedly a "hell bound sinner" (One of the reasons I'm a pagan now)
Btw: I "bleed" so I guess I can have children, dumbass.
*in case people are confused:*
I didn't know about the inter-sex thing until recently. I mean "a few weeks ago" recently. My family hid it well. They want me to be all female, and didn't like me acting "tomboyish", but when my voice started deepening, and my hair started receding, they let me be. It wasn't until I decided that I wanted a name (and sex) change that I found out. But I guess I should have known though, because I look a lot like a boy (with boobs, of course).
You don't know until puberty whether a person is more male or more female. To perform any operation shortly after birth might be to castrate the person.
Ultrasound only shows the physical genitalia, not the mental gender of the person.
Sigmund Freud was so appalled by all the kids that had been sexually and mentally abused, that he invented penis envy, to hide his head in the sand. I don't much care what notions he held.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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