Athar, I think you are misunderstanding my remarks. It is not the fate of the unsaved that brings us joy; it's the fact that God, in His grace, has spared us from a similar fate that we fully and richly deserved. If you were trapped in a burning building, and Jesus came with a ladder and offered you a way to escape, wouldn't you be excited? Wouldn't you praise Him and thank Him for saving you? The ladder that Jesus brought in order to give us an opportunity to escape God's judgment was His cross, which reconciled man to God and took away the punishment that we so richly deserved.
There will be no 'joy' over the fate of the wicked in and of itself. No one wants you to go to hell, least of all those who have died without knowing the Lord. If you read the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus in the gospel of Luke, you will see that the unsaved rich man begged God to send someone on his behalf to warn his family to repent so that they could avoid his fate. Those who die without the Lord know the seriousness of an eternity without Christ better than we do.
That's why I try to warn people about hell and hold out the promise of the gospel to them. As I mentioned in another post, I had a 15 year old niece who died without knowing the Lord. I know that she wouldn't want to see others die without Jesus, and that's why I do my best to witness the gospel to others. It's my way of honoring her memory
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"If you were trapped in a burning building, and Jesus came with a ladder and offered you a way to escape, wouldn't you be excited? Wouldn't you praise Him and thank Him for saving you?"
Considering that in this example it was Jesus who set the building on fire in the first place? No, i'd probably kick him in the throat.
Because you see, Ladies and Gentlemen, God placed us in a burning building and sent himself to save us from the flames he ignited to burn us.
We should all be so blessed to have such a savior. I wonder what plans he has for us in the next world.
You know, this whole crap theology might work better if God COULDN'T save you from hellfire post-mortem, rather than WON'T accept you post-mortem. Hell, for some reason, perhaps having to do with the Cthulhu Mythos, is the default destination for souls, but somehow vibrating your soul on the same frequency with the J-Man allows your soul to arrive in Elysia with Yahweh, the J-Man, the Holy Ghost, Virvadoss, Kthanid, Nodens, The Bizarro-Nyarlathotep, and the rest of the Elder Gods.
Because, you see, your great great great ... great grandmother ate a forbidden fruit, so you DESERVE to have the building set on fire in the first place.
So it's not you're glad that people are more sinful than you..
You're just glad that you're less sinful than other people...
Besides, most of you seem to be very excited [aroused, even] at the thought of watching us burn in Hell on their huge TVs in Heaven.
If you were trapped in a burning building, and Jesus came with a ladder and offered you a way to escape, wouldn't you be excited? Wouldn't you praise Him and thank Him for saving you?
And what would people say if a someone did come to rescue a few people in a burning building, but refused to let most of the people there on the ladder because he didn't like them?
would people still consider this person a hero? apparently, only if his name starts with a J and rhymes with Besus.
Yes, that makes perfect sense, except that you missed a few small bits.
In this case, it's just a guy shouting down from the street:
"Quick, your house is on fire, just trust me on this, leave all your stuff and climb down my invisible ladder".
Jesus is dead already.
Gospel of Luke? Luke? He never knew Jesus.
Try the gospel of Judas. Straight from the "betrayer's" mouth.
Lord this, Lord that. Your god gave you a spine and cojones , right? And a functioning mind, right? So WTF? Do you seriously think that any of us needs some imaginary character's permission to be alive and free to enjoy the experience?
Honor your niece's short life another way.
[edit]
As to the fire-ladder story, if Genghis Khan offered me some help, I'd thank him. And pay for his drinks, certainly.
"If you were trapped in a burning building, and Jesus came with a ladder and offered you a way to escape, wouldn't you be excited? Wouldn't you praise Him and thank Him for saving you?"
No, instead of standing there gabbing like an idiot, I would use the ladder to climb down and as quickly as possible, even if I had to push Jesus off to his death on the pavement below.
And we notice how the meaning of the term "troll" has drifted over the years. While traditionally it means someone mocking the belief that they claim to espouse, "troll" is now universally understood to refer to any kind of shitstirrer, even the sincere ones like MessianicServant.
"the punishment that we so richly deserved"
This is such bullshit. You don't deserve horrible punishments just for being the silly obsessed goof you are. And following from that, other people aren't evil horrible sinning monsters either, and it's alright for you to be kind to them.
@Brian:
Not exactly. What the content is doesn't matter to a troll - it may be a belief they actually hold, it may be a belief they don't hold, it may be one they disagree with rabidly - and their goals have nothing to do with mocking the beliefs they're pretending to hold. Their goal is to piss people off, to "stir the shit," and I'm pretty sure MessianicServant qualifies. This has been the case for a really long time, though I suppose if you're a real internet old-timer, it may have drifted.
"It's my way of honoring her memory"
Let's see... you want t spread the Goepel to honor the memory of someone who you say deserves to burn for eternity and who didn't want to hear about the Gospel.
Also, if the house was on fire, who let it catch fire? Jesus, I guess, since he's God.
Likewise, since Jesus is God, Jesus also created Hell, and he had himself killed so that he could save a few people from the punishment he made for breaking the rules he made. What a guy!
"If you were trapped in a burning building, and Jesus came with a ladder and offered you a way to escape, wouldn't you be excited? Wouldn't you praise Him and thank Him for saving you?"
I see analogies like this all the time about the doctrine of salvation. And they all fail. Know why? Because Jesus also was the one who trapped you in the building, set it on fire, and predetermined your ability to hear him, answer him, and to trust him. Not as simple as some random guy coming along and helping you out of a mess that he had no part in creating.
And why the hell are you so sure that your religion has provided with you perfect knowledge of not only the nature of the afterlife, but the qualifications for getting into it? It just seems foolish and arrogant...but, then again, nothing new.
"The ladder that Jesus brought in order to give us an opportunity to escape God's judgment was His cross, which reconciled man to God and took away the punishment that we so richly deserved."
You'd think it would be easier for god to stop being so judgmental and quit sending people to hell forever and a day just because they didn't worship his ass. Really, it's sad that a person thinks that anyone should be tormented forever and ever and ever because they didn't 'accept god.' How is that okay? Who seriously deserves that?
Yes, lets praise god for sending fifteen year old girls to hell forever. Great plan...
Do you realize how fucked up your statement is? It's like living in a house with an alcoholic father who beats children while screaming "Love me!" and the only way to avoid be abused is crawling on all four just to show how much you love daddy.
What the hell are they teaching at Liberty university!?
And what difference does it make, if, according to you, we are pre-chosen (or not) by god/jesus at birth?
If god chose some but rejected others already, of what use (besides annoying the target) is witnessing?
Sure, except that the (hypothetical) fire would be a real, tangible, physical risk on my life, whereas going to Heaven after I die, born again or not, would be just about as likely as an afterlife in Candyland.
I don't thank people for saving me unless I'm sure they saved me. A pet myth of the living that can only be confirmed by death isn't very good assurance.
'It is not the fate of the unsaved that brings us joy'
Bullshit. Assholes like this dude sure seem to get a lot of pleasure because they believe it is their RIGHT - maybe even OBLIGATION - to harass people who don't agree with them.
'That's why I try to warn people about hell and hold out the promise of the gospel to them.'
What CRAP.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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