[Are you saying that civil government, in a secular society, should have the authority to enforce specific theological doctrines? Would there be equally nothing wrong with a Muslim saying that everyone should be forced to live as a Muslim?]
In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should ) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.
[And there are some huge differences in what Christians believe, and how Christians live. So what kind of "Christian" should all the rest of us be forced to emulate? Should we be forced to live like the Quakers, or the Amish, or the Anglicans, or the Catholics, or the Mormons? How do you decide which kind of Christian is the "right" one?]
It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live. As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.
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"Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religous Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Why do they always want to force people to live like they do? Don't they know that doing just that is the easiest way to spawn more terrorists? I know that there will be a lot of unrest and general riots if everyone was forced to be christian tomorrow (or at least when they start enforcing that law). All non christians and the "false" christians will unite against the 5% of the nation who have the "right" way of living. Plus that police officers and soldiers will never enforce this. They are far to busy demonstrating against the breach of their private life.
Amendment Irespecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
That's why we shouldn't do the same thing in America. Well, that and the Treaty of Tripoli, and that if you wanted to impose the religious beliefs of the founders on everyone, everyone would be living as a combination of atheists, deists, and various sects of Christanity. I very much doubt that we would all be living according to your interpretation of Christianity.
but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society." Well, when I find a Christian Society, and choose to live in it, I'll start abiding by your rules.
"In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America,"So, nothing is wrong with forcing a theology on people based on geographic location?
"which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians."
No, America is NOT a Christian nation, and many of the founding fathers were NOT Christians. For Christians? What about that pledge to the flag we were forced to say which included "liberty and justice for all?"
"As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians."
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others?
"People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere."
I was born here. This is MY country too, dipshit. How about all you hard-line, thought-impaired Christians go live somewhere else? That sounds good to me.
"It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live."
That's the problem with religion, it tells you what to think and how to live, no self-examination is necessary.
"As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society"
As an atheist, I certainly do not accept that. The word "know" implies that it is a fact, which it is not.
As a member of this secular society, I have a responsibility to behave in a way which does not infringe upon the rights of others and YOU have that responsibility too. I have no responsibility to your god or your scriptures or your notion of morality.
"It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live." so apparent as to what Christians are supposed to believe and how they are supposed to live. You people can't even agree amongst yourselves what to believe, I'm sure not going to trust you to tell me how to live.
Except that in Iran and Saudi Arabia there are non-muslim minoritys who are clearly NOT required to live as muslims,
So, Mohammed Ali and his daughter or Richard Guere, what are they suppose to do?, and why do you think then contemptously superior to Moslems?. And what is Christian anyway?, Jefferson doesn´t sound like one.
There are in Iran quite large numbers of Christians, Zoroastrians, and Bah'ai, and none of them are forced to be Muslim. So thrrrp.
Well, dang. We've given out the Treaty of Tripoli Award and the Alternate Bizarro Universe Award. This piece really deserves one, but what's left that's appropriate? Post of the Week/Month, maybe? History Revisionist Award? Or maybe borrow from that comment of Papabear's and go with a "Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others" Award?
America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians.
In order to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia or Iran, one must be a Muslim. There are many immigrant workers living there who are not Muslim. On the other hand, non-Muslims in those countries are constantly proselytized to and generally harrassed by the "religious police" who prohibit the practice or display of non-Muslim religion in public.
"Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religous Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Sadly, this was one of many rights the US government cast aside during the 1800s in its zeal to destroy the LDS faith.
That's right folks - what this blowhard is proposing has already happened once in American history.
@g-21-lto
How many people like this guy vote in America? You could always move to Canada and join the United Empire Loyalists, the escaped slaves, those who fled McCarthyism and the Vietnam draft dodgers and others who fled the Land of the Free. We have to thank you for your continued valuable contribution to our citizenry.
When you use Saudi Arabia as a role model, you pretty much loose the right to have me respect your opinions in any way, shape, or form.
"In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is an atheist nation established by atheists, for atheists. As an atheist nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Ateist -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Atheists. People who do not want to abide by established atheists beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.
In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a secular nation established by tolerant people, for the toleration of all. As a secular nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live in a tolerant fashion. People who do not want to abide by established secular norms are free to live elsewhere.
@Mister Spak
Mine is better because it will enrage a fundie more. But fundies belong to the NRA. Enraging a fundie is not a measure of goodness. Providing a corrected version of what they have said for their reflection [...]
In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America...
*spit take* Did this guy just say that we should emulate Iran and Saudi Arabia?
Let me guess, you also support the war against Iraq.
A lot of conservatives want to emulate the Muslim terrorists, but at least they try to cover themselves with flimsy rationalizations such as "it's necessary in order to defeat them." This guy openly admits he wants to destroy our freedoms and that he thinks that doing so would be a good idea for its own sake. Well, at least he's honest.
...which is a Christian nation...
image
...established by Christians...
Actually, no. Many of the founding fathers were deists.
...for Christians.
Wrong again. The Bill of Rights clearly states that everyone is entitled to any or no religion.
As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians.
ARG! For the love of everything cute...
Go read Article VI of the most important document in America. And I'm not talking about the damn Bible.
People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.
I was born here. This is my country. Why the hell should I have to move or suffer second class citizenship because I refuse to agree with your deluded belief that the universe was poofed into existence out of nothing by a magic sky fairy who is all powerful and intimately concerned with who you fuck.
And there are some huge differences in what Christians believe, and how Christians live. So what kind of "Christian" should all the rest of us be forced to emulate? Should we be forced to live like the Quakers, or the Amish, or the Anglicans, or the Catholics, or the Mormons? How do you decide which kind of Christian is the "right" one?
It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live.
Oh, the Catholics hate the Protestants and the Protestants hate the Catholics... [/Tom Lehrer]
As an atheist, you would not know this...
"It's self-evident" + "You disagree, therefore you can't understand" = WRONG.
...but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.
Buddy, I'll say it one more time. This isn't a Christian society!
Constitution
Bill of Rights
Treaty of Tripoli
The words of Thomas Jefferson
What, exactly, will convince you that the US is not a Christian nation?
Oh, right, nothing. You refuse to admit that you could even possibly be wrong in principle.
That's what makes you a fundie.
Alright, give me funding and I'll gladly uproot to $atheismcountry and live happily with my fellow heatens. Which way is it?
Oh, f***. You didn't consider the minority of OTHER religions. They don't matter.
In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians.
As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.
It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live. As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.
America...is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians
OK, Lion In Oil, you're making the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Show me where in the Constitution of the United States of America where it explicitly states this and I will agree with you. But it has to say it without question. None of this "Well, our founding fathers meant..." bullshit. They either said it 'cause they meant it or they didn't say it at all.
As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian
I would agree if you can prove the first part of your statement. But still, 1st Ammendment disagrees with you as it was meant to do.
It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live.
Way to avoid the question. Fine, let me put my spin on your statement above: I subscribe to Hillbilly Evangelical Christianity. Our Lord is a good ol' boy with a mullet, overalls and bare feet as He should. No worries of science casting doubt in his mind as he only completed up to the 2nd grade. The "Virgin" Mary is hardly that as she hung around the bars a bit too much. We're hoping she quits chain smoking soon. The Disciples were barflys who drank the Holy Moonshine which He converted from swamp water without going blind.
Is this in line with your version of Christianity? ;-)
The piece about Iran is bullshit. A friend of mine lived in Iran two years. He is a christian and never had problems with it. He even went to a church in Teerã (Tehran). Of course, critizing or burning the Coran in public are very bad ideas in Iran, but you don´t have to be muslin to live there.
In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim.
Tell that to the 25,000 Jewish citizens of Iran, who have been living there peacefully for a VERY long time, despite the Iranian government's vehement dislike of the state of Israel.
"It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live."
- It should be self-evident to anyone with even a remedial knowledge of history that THAT'S WHAT THEY ALL SAY!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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