Yes I think Jesus would approve, absolutely.
After all, Jesus agrees with me about everything, and I approve.
Jesus used violence in carrying a whip in clearing out the Temple for the greater good.
Stopping an offense in progress by using necessary force against an abviously guilty party is one thing. Torturing innocents for things other people might choose to do at some indeterminate future time is another.
If I love my neighbor as I am taught to do, and I see my neighbor beating his wife and children and can only save them using violence, I believe God would approve
I agree. In fact, I think it would be a passive sin to allow it to continue. I fail to see the relevance of this argument, however, since as I said above, the situations are completely different.
not in His perfect will but in His permissive will to saving their lives.
No idea what you think you're communicating here, but it's not working.
Which is why there is war in Scripture
Actually most of the wars in scripture were about the same things modern wars are really about: resources and old grudges. The only wars which really got a supernatural explanations (aside from "I am giving you this land") were the ones the israelites lost, which were explained as punishment for falling away from God, not as preventing greater harm.
Any woman having a child born naturally, has suffered much more then a "waterboarding" done to save lives
a) waterboarding is not about saving lives. Torture does not provide good information, and even if it did, the erosion of your democracy and respect for human rights is not worth the scraps of solid information you might get. I've noticed that Americans set great store by quotes from their founding fathers. Try this one: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." You are willing to sacrifice basic democratic principles like "no cruel and unusual punishment" and "no imprisonment without trial" to satisfy your paranoia. By Franklin's definition, you deserve to be neither free nor safe, and I think it's probably safe to say that if he met you, he would have nothing but contempt for you.
b) I realize that childbirth is not all roses and butterflies. Nevertheless, claiming that childbirth (which, if painful, has the advantages that it's something your body is well designed for and results in a baby, which you presumably want, at it's conclusion) is worse than waterboarding (which simulates the experience of death by drowning, and has the additional psychological trauma of knowing that someone else is doing this to you on purpose) only makes you seem despicable.
...I don't think it is torture.....
All this proves is that you don't know what you're talking about (and thus should shut your trap and take your hands off the keyboard.)
