[Christians can also pray in school, as long as the school doesn't organize it.]
Oh really? TRY IT. Unless it's a Christian school, ain't happening until they are directly threatened with a lawsuit. And even then lower court judges can rule against it. There have been cases of kids, on their own time, trying to pray around the flag pole being told they can't. And many more examples of the secular fundamentalists who own our schools now forbidding even the display of a cross necklace in the open.
51 comments
Mandatory atheism in schools is exactly as bad as any mandatory religion, for exactly the same reason. If such discrimination happens I suggest you challenge it the way atheists have challenged schools mandating Christianity. The precedent set by atheists means you'll probably have an easy time of it.
That said, I don't think you really have a hard time praying in schools. This reeks of the Christian Persecution Complex, which largely seems to involve making up something ridiculous and then being outraged by and terrified of it in equal measure.
There have been overreactions on the part of schools afraid of expensive lawsuits, just as there have been examples throughout the South of the opposite - schools simply ignoring the law and openly endorsing Protestant Christian religion.
How can kids pray around a school flag pole "on their own time"? They don't have "their own time" while school is in session. They'd have to come there after school. After-school religious clubs are legal as long as teachers don't participate except as chaperones.
The ACLU has challenged schools that ban wearing religious symbols like crosses as a violation of the "Free Exercise" clause of the Constitution. Schools that have banned them have generally justified it by claiming that gang members have adopted crosses as gang symbols.
Perhaps a bit of exaggeration I suspect. Praying around a flag pole??? Hm. Well, I reckon kids can pray in the hallways, lunch line, between classes, during class as long as they are silent and not interrupting anybody. I know they pray during close athletic games. Or perhaps before a test. I suspect Mr Rooks is lying for jeebus for the purpose of making a political statement.
So either all of our country's institutions are blindly endorsing fundamentalist Christianity, or we are an anti-theistic state that ruthlessly crushes any mention of "god."
Don't you think that maybe, just possibly maybe, there's a third alternative? Possibly even a fourth or fifth?
^^^
And Mandatory atheism in schools is exactly as bad as any mandatory religion ?
Sorry, but that's just complete bollocks. School is meant to encourage kids to think, religion is effectively turning your brain off. And I'd be very surprised if any school anywhere has mandatory atheism anyway. Certianly not in the UK where religion 'education'is compulsory (I prefer to call it 'religious instruction').
If so, then they are violating your rights and breaking the law, and you should sue them. Ask the ACLU, they can probably help.
You're exaggerating. My public school had a non-mandatory flagpole prayer and a Bible club. And a private room for Muslims. This was only six years ago.
Edit: Our school's flagpole prayer was organized by students of aforementioned religious club, not by any staff.
Oh bullshit. There's not one school in this country with employees who would dare try to stop children from praying on their own time, since they know they'd be on the losing end of a lawsuit (and rightly so).
This "our kids aren't allowed to pray" bullshit is nothing more than an extension of the stupid belief that the Supreme Court case that Madalyn Murray O'Hair won means that nobody in the entire country can pray in school without threat of being arrested. It's false and Christians know it, but that doesn't keep them from spreading it. I think there was a commandment about bearing false witness, but I'm just a stupid atheist, so what do I know?
"There have been cases of kids, on their own time, trying to pray around the flag pole being told they can't"
[citation Seriously Fucking needed]
And even if 'twere the case...:
image
My law teacher was a Christian. He studied court cases and the Constitution. He reminded us it is okay to pray, no matter what religion, as long as it is not school mandated. He even did the sign of the cross when the loudspeaker announced a staff member died. It was rather discrete, but I noticed. Didn't say anything though.
So yeah. You can actually sue the school not only if they mandate prayer, but if they give students shit about praying.
As for my college, we have a Christian club and a Muslim club and other religious clubs. So... oppressed my ass!
@Anon-e-moose
I am shameless. :D
"There have been cases of kids, on their own time, trying to pray around the flag pole being told they can't...cross necklace..."
Not exactly. Doing an internet search on the name Larry Davis Clay Hill Elementary yields a bit more about that event.
Internet searches will also reveal why a girl in a Colorado school was asked to remove her rosary.
Information without names and fact-checking is meaningless, kind of like the rhetoric I was handed in church on Sunday mornings as a kid.
I remember when I was going to high school there was a group of kids who'd take a few minutes at lunch to form a circle and pray together quietly near the soccer field. I don't recall anyone bothering them but the usual punks, the faculty let them do their thing.
And you know Canada, we're a godless bunch of commie fascists up here.
Now if they were praying as loud as they possibly could, clogging up the hallways, abusing the PA, and/or using faith as an excuse to single out other students there would have been an issue or five hundred.
Why pray around the flag pole? Doesn't the Bible tell you to pray in private? I'd guess that the flag pole is in the middle of the school yard and very far from private. Besides, if the kids were standing by the flag pole, how did others knew they were praying, and not saying the Pledge of Allegiance?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
