Arthur Miskelly #fundie #homophobia premier.org.uk

petej: The reason I am confused is that several people have referred to the lesbian family member as your daughter (inc me) and you haven’t corrected them.
So my question, that you keep not answering, is if you believe she is gay because of “nurture” then why do you blame her for it and not her parents?

Arthur Miskelly: Aha, the penny has dropped. Why should I correct them? Her relationship to me is immaterial. The fact is I love her, and we have always enjoyed a special platonic relationship. Still do. Who said that I don’t blame her parents (mother) certainly wasn’t me? Shouldn’t jump to conclusions, should we? Or make judgments before we know the facts. There is a lesson to be learned here.

petej: I’m not saying that you should have corrected them. I’m saying that it confused me when they assumed that she was your daughter.
You haven’t blamed her mother. You have continually blamed her. My question is that if you believe that she is gay because of the way she was raised then shouldn’t you be blaming her parents and not her?
I’m not making judgements. Im asking you questions about your opinions. I’ve asked you several times now. You don’t seem to be able to answer.

Arthur Miskelly: No matter what I answer Pete you will twist it to point score. That is not the reason I entered this discussion. I entered it to minister to souls who are headed to hell because of the devil’s lie about homosexuality. Genises to Revelation tells me homosexuality is an abomination. I can’t change that and no amount of argument will change that fact. I long for her conversion, and surprisingly, I long for yours. I do not wish to see anyone in hell’s torment for eternity. The bible says it, I believe it, end of story. I was under no obligation to correct anyone on their wrong assumptions. I pray you will be blessed and have the scales removed from your eyes.

petej: Im not interested in scoring points and if you think that about me then you have woefully misunderstood me. I am very concerned about the amount of damage ill thought through hostility towards gay people is causing families.
If you genuinely believe that her upbringing caused her to be gay then I think the blame is with her parents not her. Likewise if this church believes that parents cause homosexuality then the parents should be excluded, not their children or their grandchildren.
I dont know you and I dont know your lesbian family member. I do think it would be impossible that you telling her she is going to hell because she is gay will not have disrupted your relationship with her. Likewise my heart goes out to those families who have been damaged by this ruling.
I have read the whole bible through many times and I do not see anywhere where it mentions gay people. There are a couple of verses where same sex sex is condemned (and no doubt we would disagree on the interpretation there). I dont think the point of the bible is to condemn people for personal characteristics or things about them they have no power to change. I think it is primarily about salvation for all people. Sin is largely a matter for chosen behaviours. It seems to me that your family member didnt choose to be gay (even by your own account) and yet you condemn her for it. It also seems to me that the bible calls us to love our enemies and love in the bible means putting other people first, even if we disagree with them.
When I asked how your love for this lady was manifest, your answer was that you were praying for her to become straight. I think a great sin of the modern church is that it is now teaching that love is no more than prayers for salvation or "speaking the truth in love". That is simply not what Jesus taught. It is not what the apostles taught either. It is a teaching that is anti Christian and is damaging our society in very obvious ways.

Arthur Miskelly: The word “couple” is a collective noun, therefore singular and should be preceded by the singular pronoun “is” not the plural “are”. Having got the grammar lesson out of the road, I never told her that her sexuality would send her to hell. I told her that she needed to repent of it. The only sin which sends people to hell is the rejection of Christ’s sacrifice. I really would suggest that you read the posts more carefully, or else you may make a fool of yourself.

petej: You’ve repeatedly implied, if not said outright, that all gay people are going to hell. Orientation is not something someone can repent from because she has no more power to become attracted to men than you do to change the colour of your hair. Blaming her for something that isn’t her fault and that she has no power to change is unfair and it is almost certainly damaging her relationship with you and with God. If you tell people that they have to become straight before they can have a relationship with God then, if they believe you, they won’t have a relationship with God if they are unable to make themselves straight. I’d also like to encourage you to be a bit more civil and respectful to me. I haven’t used any insults towards you so it would be good if you could keep yours to a minimum.

Arthur Miskelly: You poor sensitive snowflake You obviously cannot cope with being in error. In more ways than one.

8 comments

Confused?

So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!

To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register. Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.