I've said this before but I'll say it again.

Incels, including me, have some very valid points. The world isn't just. The world is unfair. There is social inequality, gender inequality, feminism has gone mad and women have power in some areas to a dangerous level. All of those things are true and should be discussed and debated. I think most of reddit will agree with us on those points as well.

I think we should be allowed to talk about those things. But I just don't see a reason why we have to be misogynistic while we're doing it. All that does is get people angry and they stop listening to the important message.

I'm not entirely sure if this is because I've been reading the wrong subs, or if the moderates just aren't as loud, but the general consensus seems to be that those points are inherently hateful and misogynistic, due to their association with incels. Doesn't matter where you're coming from, if you bring it up, you'll get "spot the incel" or other such nonsense thrown at you and be completely ignored.

I do agree that these points would be taken more seriously if we were considered less misogynistic, but not enough to change any minds. If innocent FA could be mocked so easily, then I doubt a sub proposing ideas that totally go against the status quo will fare any better. It might be too late to change the stigma without pulling a 180 on our entire philosophy.

We are in an era of equality. Obviously it's been more geared towards women recently with the #metoo movement but that is starting to run its course and a lot of people think it's gone too far. Soon, the tide will turn and men will reassert their rights. Even the President of the United States has spoken out about how dangerous the current social climate is for men. Soon, men will seek equality for themselves.

This will involve addressing the sexual inequality, the power women have, the gender inequality that exists, the unnecessary ridicule that incels get, and it will be our time to have our voices be heard. We will be an important and valuable voice at that time, and we need to be listened to.

Currently, our valid and true message is being lost. People just see misogyny and hate and rants and they don't listen to the message. Our importance and unique viewpoint gets lost and we get dismissed.

My opinion is that our views deserve to be heard and we need to cut down on the misogyny and what comes across as hateful rants and we need to be calmer, more rationale and engaging. Then we will be heard.

Society will soon want to listen to us. They might not have wanted to before. But women's rights recently have gone too far and it'll swing the other way soon and that will be our time and we need to be in a position to take advantage of that. We need to be in a position where people listen and don't dismiss us.

Women are no longer considered property, so that's been progress.

By the way, I am in favour of a lot of the recent womens rights. I think there was a big gap and it needed closing.

But I do think some bits are dangerous. The fact a woman can accuse a man of anything, get believed and ruin his life is scary. That judge in America was not proven guilty, yet people think of him in a guilty way. That's unfair.