[Re. transgender people]
Other conditions:
Transracial. You’re white. But you FEEL black. Your grades and SATs aren’t good. You fill out black on your college application. You get in. You get called on it.
“What, but I FEEL black on the inside. Therefore, I’m black.”
Transspecies. You’re a dude who is arrested for public urination. Solution: You’re a dog. You don’t arrest dogs for peeing outside.
There is no end to this.
I read a story somewhere about organic cotton. Organic cotton is expensive. Cotton growers don’t want to grow organic cotton because it’s too expensive to grow and process. But they like that organic cotton fetches more in the marketplace. They want to use GMO cotton. Roundup ready cotton or whatever they come up with. Their solution: change the meaning of organic.
Stop changing the meaning of words to make the world worse for most people. Men are men and women are women. It’s scientific fact in the chromosomes. But the government wants to decree otherwise. Let’s change the meaning of marriage so that crazy people can get privileges. Let’s make it impossible for consumers to buy organic cotton by defining it out of existence and enriching Monsanto in the process.
No more. Our enemies are sick and evil people.
87 comments
A scientific fact in the chromosomes? Oh, how I'd love to introduce these people to all the many varieties of intersex bodies. But considering the sheer stupidity shown in the post, I don't think it would do all that much good anyway.
Gender or race shouldn't be important enough to make such fuss about. We don't make any fuss about being read-headed or blond, and you can change it with the help of a bottle of dye.
Why is it important whether you are a man or a woman?
On our SAT-equivalent tests, there is no Race box to fill in.
Men are men and women are women. It’s scientific fact in the chromosomes.
Well, no. There's a whole cascade of things that have to happen to push an embryo toward one gender or the other. One error somewhere in the chain, and who knows what happens?
That's odd. I thought fundies LOVED changing the meaning of words. For example, freedom of religion meaning only the freedom to express Christian beliefs, persecution being defined as criticism, a bunch of homophobic and xenophobic bigots calling themselves the 'moral majority', liberal meaning "anyone I disagree with", being an 'evolutionist' suddenly and automatically making you an atheist, and Deist (as many of our founding fathers were) suddenly turning into staunch ultra-conservative Christian.
It's a lot more complicated then just XX and XY, there are all kinds of odd things that can happen.
Most things are more complicated then you idiot Freepers think.
"Yes, but non-whites do get special scholarships and easier admission in universities. It's called affirmative action and is actually quite racist."
Waaah, I'm a persecuted white male!!!
But seriously AA, you obviously don't understand affirmative action--go look up the court cases related to it, like Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger .
You don't arrest dogs for peeing outside, but you also don't accord them human rights. Not a good direction to go in.
How the devil does allowing transgender individuals to construct their gender independently of their sex make the world 'worse for most people?'
It’s scientific fact in the chromosomes.
So science is on your side when you're trying to keep people down; however, when people bring it out the data about what damage Economic Cause X has done, or the data data about what Economic Effect Y has already done in different states or nations -- then, things like testable conjectures, verifiability of experiments, and concensus go out the window.
So, only science that supports you is valid? Got it.
I will admit I am a little mixed up on the whole transgender thing but there is clearly more in determining masculinity and femininity than just an X or a Y chromosome. The X or Y determines whether you have penis or vagina but it is not the complete control over all the proteins and hormones that the body produces.
To use the "I feel black" analogy, there is every shade of skin color from deepest black through whitest white, because skin color is controlled by way more than 1 gene. So it seems reasonable to assume that there is a similar range of sexuality between male and female.
The dog analogy is beyond stupid wand what is expected of Free Republic.
Transgender feelings can come due to the fact that biological gender is complicated, meaning that genes, hormones, and genitalia may not all match up. You can have genetic males without penises who think of themselves as female, you can have hermaphrodites, you can have over-masculinized but still female females, etc. Your comparison to confusion over race and species are idiotic due to this. The only "transracial" individuals would be people with a very complicated racial heritage that cannot be easily tossed into "black" or "white" or "Latin-American" and so forth. This, however, has little to do with biology because "race" is more of a social category than a biological one (whereas gender is like, half-and-half). The comparison is inane and an excuse to dismiss a group because they suffer from things that are too complicated for you to arse yourself into understanding.
@ aboveathletics --
Those affirmative action programs that still exist aren't enough to compensate for white people being given greater educational resources at all levels (and colleges responding in admissions to the "quality" of previously-attended schools, which is too often a shorthand for wealth and whiteness). Scholarships, need-based and otherwise, also go disproportionately to white students when similar family incomes are compared. The SATs, meanwhile, are a stronger predictor of race and (especially) family wealth than of academic performance
So yeah, despite the people whining about affirmative action, white people still have an easier time.
@ aboveathletics
Yes, but non-whites do get special scholarships and easier admission in universities. It's called affirmative action and is actually quite racist.
How can they get easier admission if no-one knows what "race" they are? As far as I know, only documents are sent in to universities over here, no-one meets the applicants until they are already admitted, i.e. on the first day of the semester.
As I understand it, affirmative actions means you first look at the score or the merits of all applicants. When you have the best of the best sorted out, you might choose the man, if there are more women in that field, or the Asian, if there are more Africans in that field. It's a way to "rectify" past racism or gender-ism.
Or you could maybe learn about transexuality and not come off as a condescending, transphobic, ignorant asshole.
Oh wait, I forgot; being an ignorant jerk is a compliment on "Free" Republic.
Yes, but many a dog has been put down for crapping indoors . Maybe we should apply that criteria to you .
Stupid arguments that have nothing to do with the original subject are fun! Wheeeee! I'm an idiot!
His "transracial" paragraph is a giant, racist bomb.
As if a white person in this century will ever really know what it means to "feel black". ... The closest would be to raise a family in some parts of east asia, but even there the high prestige of low melanin comes into effect.
What a jackass.
Re: Affirmative Action
It MIGHT be racist, but no more so than the other forms of institutionalized racism that works against minorities. The thing to remember is that AA is something of a stopgap measure meant to rein in the xenophobic impulses of humanity until we're a better meritocracy (one that doesn't use skin tone as a rubric). I don't think we've come very far since the 50's. There's been progress, but it's only skin deep.
Y'know, this kinda makes me wonder, and forgive me if this is in any way offensive, but when asked for gender on applications and stuff, what box do transgendered people check?
Query: How does accepting transgender people make anything worse for you?
Also, TRIFECTA. Stereotyping black people, talking about cotton conspiracies, screaming about marriage, hat trick.
This is more RSTDT... at least a twofer! As much as I support and buy organic products (and dislike Monsanto), the last sentence of the last paragraph makes no sense to me. It *almost* gives us a CSTDT trifecta, but it's a little vague. Also, I don't see religion in here, so the fundie category is a little vague as well. The specimen *pokes truthfreedom with a scalpel* is more of a bigot than religious zealot, I think.
Also, the practical defintion of "freedom" is allowing someone to do what you don't want them to do, don't like, or don't understand. If you liked and accepted every decision another person made, there would be no need for freedom or rights, since you'd have no objection anyway. I personally find that gender changes are not something I can easily understand. But, I accept the right of other people to make that decision, even if I don't necessarily understand it. I also accept the right of morons like truthfreedom to exist and live their lives with their heads in their rectums, even if I don't necessarily understand it.
Why the fuck do you even care if someone gets a sex change? It doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form, so sit down and shut the fuck up.
In truth, it affects us all. A man becoming a woman is a good thing because that means more pulchritude to go around. The inverse is a great deal more unfortunate.
As both a transgender woman and a Human Sexuality major, I can tell you on good authority, sir, that you don't know jack shit about gender, sexuality, or genetics.
@ #1213627
Asking questions is never offensive! Unless they're pointless loaded questions like "truthfreedom" might ask, but obviously that's not you.
There's an increasing tendency these days to include a "transgender" box on such forms, and I've even heard of "I choose not to answer"--which sounds like a euphemism for the same, but I've heard of non-trans people using it too, just to mess with them ;)
When there is no such box, we generally choose the one closest to our own identity. This isn't always easy, of course, and we often have to fill out extra paperwork when we change what we consider "closest," but we manage.
Our enemies are sick and evil people.
That describes the sentiments of a depressing number of people on all sides of every issue. Which is why we have so many wars -- everyone is always convinced that they are the "good guys" and the other side is "sick and evil".
@ Wehpudicabok -- Given the horrendous misbehavior of my nominal gender towards me and others, I lean a bit towards "other", and used to identify that way on paperwork. Now I just see myself as a double agent committing morally-motivated treason against manhood.
> Transspecies. You’re a dude who is arrested for public urination. Solution: You’re a dog. You don’t arrest dogs for peeing outside.
*quickly makes a sign that says "I'm only a furry for tax evasion purposes"*
Ideally everyone would be born as they wanted, but apparently that isn't the case. I think the difference between Conservatives and Liberals is the way we ask questions:
Conservative: Why should we let people do <whatever>?
Liberal: Why shouldn't we let people do <whatever>?
"Transracial. You’re white. But you FEEL black."
Ever hear of the albino reggae artist Yellowman? Oh, and Two Words: Michael Jackson.
"Transspecies. You’re a dude who is arrested for public urination."
No, you're just someone caught short after eleventeen pints in the pub - but forgot to use their toilets before leaving and staggering home (although our police in the UK take a zero tolerance attitude to this nowadays, and issue Fixed Penalty Notices - £80 fines - to anyone who has a slash in public).
"There is no end to this."
Oh, indeed. Even... dare I say this... Transbelief !!!111ONE11eleventyone1 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Edwards_(athlete)#Religious_beliefs
Stop changing facts to fit in with your religious lies , fundies.
Reality is reality, and fairytales are fairytales.
The difference being that a person can operate himself to change his sex. A person can't operate himself to be a dog.
And blacks and whites have no big difference, so changing skin color has no grounds to compare.
You're just a douche who can't accept things changing.
Oh, lovely. It's 2010, nearly 2011, and not only do we NOT have flying cars and cities on the fucking MOON, but people still think that skin color sets your intelligence.
@Mrs. Antichrist
Because if a person with XX chromosomes can be a man, than that threatens to stretch his poor little insecure brain past the breaking point while raising the question that if "manliness" is not determined by dick-ownership (if it were, ladies would have men beat anyway, what with so many having battery-operated ones stashed away somewhere), then maybe that little thing in his pants, to which he has always hearkened back whenever the question of his perceived manliness has come up, is not the be-all end-all proof he has always assumed it to be, and maybe he is not the man-stud he has always assured himself he is. Maybe it's not that he has spent his whole adult life cajoling his lady friends into assuring him of his size --- maybe he has spent his entire life resting on laurels that simply don't exist. Maybe being a man requires more than just having an "outie." Maybe being a man is an active process, involving work , and thought . And that's just way too much to expect of a lazy, lazy man like him.
And if a person with XY chromosomes can become a convincing woman, well that's just upsetting because it means that any ass he ogles might once have had balls hanging off it. And the Ghost Balls might give him the gay.
From the first line of this goober's rant, "Your grades and SATs aren’t good".
...I smell the stench of Ethnobigotry!
The late, great George Washington Carver, Jonas Salk, the guy who did the first Heart Transplant (name escapes me for a moment, forgive me...Christian Barnhardt?), President Obama (who's very intelligent...though you totally loathe him) and a bunch of others, would love a word with you.....
(If I'm wrong on any examples...it's due to name confusion...but I'm sure you know the folks I'm thinking of).
Actually, you're the one changing the meaning of 'organic'. Organic matter is matter that has come from a once-living organism, is capable of decay or the product of decay, or is composed of organic compound. So if that organism is GM? Doesn't change a damn thing.
The racism thing is odd because, on the one hand, he's just saying claiming to be black could get you an affirmative-action slot and lessen your competition...but he's also assuming there are insufficient black candidates with actual good scores to knock you out...so he's just being an ass.
"Transracial. You’re white. But you FEEL black. Your grades and SATs aren’t good. You fill out black on your college application. You get in. You get called on it.
“What, but I FEEL black on the inside. Therefore, I’m black.” " - If you really are proven to mentally be black, and take extensive medical procedures to actually be black on the outside too, that would be comparable.
"Transspecies. You’re a dude who is arrested for public urination. Solution: You’re a dog. You don’t arrest dogs for peeing outside." - and good luck with actually being treated as a dog by everyone else. Because that would be part of being "Transspecies".
Also, I fail to see how accepting transgender people would make the world worse.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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