The Judeo Christian Tradition is from where all morality and true justice derive. Good soldiering requires adherence to a strict moral code, else our military would have long ago devolved into anarchy and the barbaric practice reminiscent of other pagan or amoral cultures. The American military would not hold that reputation so well earned over two centuries, were not the Judeo-Christian Traditions central in its doctrine of moral conduct.
All of Western civilization owes its birth, its liberty, its jurisprudence, and its prosperity and longevity to the Catholic Church, and the Christian moral code, without which no semblance of the above attributes would have risen from the rubble that was the old Roman Empire. That is not my opinion, but historical fact.
I have no intention of arguing Catholic apologetics with you, not wanting to cast pearls before swine. I long ago discovered atheists comprise the most closed of all intellects, while the irony is they claim to have enlightened minds.
Moreover, the typical arguments the atheist conjures involve circular logic and the disproval of negatives.
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The Judeo Christian Tradition is from where all morality and true justice derive.
No, those religious traditions happen to intersect with good morals in some areas, as do the regulations in most other religions.
True justice? What, like "stone your kid if he talks back" and "kill rape victims who don't scream loud enough"?
And let's not forget gems like "The Bible says God is real" and "Oh yeah? Well PROVE God doesn't exist!"
Because the Greeks, the Persians (under Cyrus), the Chineese and the Egyptians were all immoral and their armies did as they wanted to right? And the Jewish nation never raped, pillaged, murdered or otherwise trampled on the innocents during their campaigns as mandated by God right?
Others have pointed out the epic historical fail already, as well as the logic problems with declaring Christianity=morality. I'll limit myself to translating some weasel words:
"I long ago discovered atheists comprise the most closed of all intellects, while the irony is they claim to have enlightened minds."
Translation: I've gotten my metaphorical ass kicked by lots of atheists, so I'll refuse to debate.
Good soldiering requires adherence to a strict code of behavior, not necessarily a moral code, just a strict one.
pagan =/= amoral
Argument could be made that the reason there was 'rubble that was the old Roman Empire' is BECAUSE of the adoption of christianity by Constantine, and the subsequent forced conversions that occurred. The decline of the roman empire started about the time that the 'morality police' started trying to enforce monogamy and the criminalization of homosexuality.
The Judeo Christian Tradition is from where all morality and true justice derive.
I guess the Hindus, who were around a good 2,000--4,000 years before the Jews got rolling, don't count.
Good soldiering requires adherence to a strict moral code...
Incorrect. Soldiers require strict discipline and an even-handed application of the appropriate legal code. The biggest scumbag on the planet could march and fire a rifle just as well as the holiest theist.
All of Western civilization owes its birth, its liberty, its jurisprudence, and its prosperity and longevity to the Catholic Church...
Actually, Western civilization owes its birth and prosperity to Greek culture. Even now, thousands of years after the fact, the influence of Greek culture can still be felt. Greece contributed entire branches of mathematics, philosophy, science, astronomy, and architecture which advanced Mankind to an extent which is second only to the Industrial Revolution or the Enlightenment.
"The American military would not hold that reputation so well earned over two centuries, were not the Judeo-Christian Traditions central in its doctrine of moral conduct."
What reputation would that be anyway? the reputation of being willing to do battle with any nation weaker than yours? ie Vietnam,Iraq,Panama,Grenada. Or were you thinking of the reputation of sitting by and letting atrocities go unanswered while making profits from conflict? ie: WWII 1939-1941.
oh and perhaps you can enlighten me as to the morality of the crusades, killing people who just didn't follow your particular brand of god. or the Inquisition.
oh and lets not forget that it was a Judeo-Christian sub-group (the muslems) that flew passenger planes into the twin towers, are you proud of that particular act of moral true justice too?
ps. see the other comments western civilization began with the Greeks.
You make all of those claims, then you say you arent going to uphold your claims with rational evidences because the other person is a pig?
WELL FUCK YOU IN THE ASS WITH JESUS!
"All of Western civilization owes its liberty, jurisprudence, blah blah blah. And that, children, is why they're called the Dark Ages.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
What utter crap.
The Judeo Christian Tradition is from where all morality and true justice derive.
Bullshit.
Good soldiering requires adherence to a strict moral code, else our military would have long ago devolved into anarchy and the barbaric practice reminiscent of other pagan or amoral cultures.
Such as? Sparta? Rome? Macedonia?
All of Western civilization owes its birth, its liberty, its jurisprudence, and its prosperity and longevity to the Catholic Church, and the Christian moral code,
Wrong.
without which no semblance of the above attributes would have risen from the rubble that was the old Roman Empire. That is not my opinion, but historical fact.
Bullshit. Fact my ass.
Basically you are full of shit.
There should be a test before people are allowed keyboards.
Massive History fail
1)our code of law can be originally traced back to the polytheistic Code of Hammurabi
2)our political systems can be traced to the Greek city-states and the roman Republic. both also polytheistic
3)The Catholic Church was responsible for the nightmare commonly known as the Medieval Period. The Fall of Constantinople and the resultant seeping in of Middle Eastern thought into Central European society was responsible for the Enlightment. guess which is better.
4)the inmates at Abu-Ghraib would like a word with you regarding the military's adherence to a strict moral code.
The US military has a reputation for being hardware advanced, but not so advanced when it comes to it's personnel.
And Christian moral must be the worst kind of moral to base any laws upon, you don't want racist, sadistic, xenophobic, anti-women, barbaric laws based on blood thirst, would you? Because that is what you'd get with these so called "christian moral" you are talking about.
"Good soldiering requires adherence to a strict moral code, else our military would have long ago devolved into anarchy and the barbaric practice reminiscent of other pagan or amoral cultures"
Huge fail of course..you have no idea of history do you..and I suspect like your great leader, you have a huge lack of curiosity about anything other than your own narrow world view.
http://www.killinghope.org/
http://www.killinghope.org/bblum6/assass.htm
"(...) without which no semblance of the above attributes would have risen from the rubble that was the old Roman Empire. That is not my opinion, but historical fact."
As has been stated before me, the Roman Empire fell mainly because of Christianity, not in spite of it.
"I have no intention of arguing Catholic apologetics with you, not wanting to cast pearls before swine. I long ago discovered atheists comprise the most closed of all intellects, while the irony is they claim to have enlightened minds."
Bullshit. You got owned once too often for even your stubborn self to tolerate, so you took your bat and glove and slunk off home to sulk. Stop projecting your own weaknesses onto the rest of us, 'kay?
"Moreover, the typical arguments the atheist conjures involve circular logic and the disproval of negatives."
Pot. Kettle. Black. That is all.
"I long ago discovered atheists comprise the most closed of all intellects, while the irony is they claim to have enlightened minds.
Moreover, the typical arguments the atheist conjures involve circular logic and the disproval of negatives."
Oh brother, if you only knew what irony really means.
> Good soldiering requires adherence to a strict moral code, else our military would have long ago devolved into anarchy and the barbaric practice reminiscent of other pagan or amoral cultures.
That depends on your definition of good soldiering. The ideal might be that a conflict be won by inflicting minimal casualties and then only on opposing forces rather than civilians. I strongly doubt that that has ever happened.
> The American military would not hold that reputation so well earned over two centuries, were not the Judeo-Christian Traditions central in its doctrine of moral conduct.
Unfortunately the American military does not hold a particularly good reputation, and it certainly has not been improved over the last seven years. War has the inevitable effect of brutalising everyone involved. The longer it lasts, the worse the outcome.
1. What does your book say about rape and genocide?
2. The quality of your soldiers depends on drill and training. And you can compare soldiers such as the Gurkhas to yours and yours may still come out second place. They did not earn their reputation via religion, they earn it by hard work.
3. All of western civilisation owes its birth, its liberty, its language to the Roman Empire. The Catholic Church nearly ruined it all by creating the rubble of the Roman Empire. It owes its prosperity due to the suffering of others in its "colonies" or straight up slavery.
4. Casting pearls before swine is an argument christians use when they cannot win. Atheists are extremely open. We are waiting for EVIDENCE of a god. So far you have none. The best are the deist arguments.
The best soldiers in history have happened to be Roman, Greek and Arab. Christians, you know, with so much turn the other cheek..............not really.
"Moreover, the typical arguments the atheist conjures involve circular logic and the disproval of negatives."
This sentence is intended to make your irony meter go nuclear so you can't respond to this tripe.
Seriously history revisionism for Jesus.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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