markrichardson887 #fundie

markrichardson887 #fundie imdb.com

No, no, I am not a 'homophobe'; I'm a sensible, rational, human being. Why isn't the homosexual lifestyle considered a mental disease?

There's nothing 'normal' about it. Just because it's present in the animal world, does not make it right. Some animals rape one another. Some steal, and scavenge. Some kill members of the opposite sex after mating. How are these wrong, but not the gay lifestyle, which is also found in nature?

Can any gay supporters make a logical case, without calling me names or bullying me? Why are certain perversions accepted, but not others?

Am I an 'incestophobe' too?
A 'beastophobe'?
A 'pedophobe'?

I personally feel that our rejection of judeo-christian values in The West, will ultimately lead to our demise. We accept too much, and we will end up like Pagan, soulless sinners, in a fog of perverse scum. I'm not saying everyone should be a Christian, I'm just saying, Christian values are clearly the backbone of the most noble morality.

The fact that The Bible, (which must be read in a scholarly manner), is against homosexuality, shows you just how enlightened those of the past were. We got The Golden Rule from The Bible; we learnt The Ten Commandments; why can't we learn sexual morality too? Again, I'm not forcing my beliefs, but I'm wary of secular humanist propaganda spreading through Great, Western Nations.

Thoughts?

53 comments

old comment by Wehpudicabok

"Why isn't the homosexual lifestyle considered a mental disease?"

A lifestyle cannot be a disease, by definition. That's a simple category error, a rather obvious and hilarious mistake brought on by conservative insistence on references to the so-called "homosexual lifestyle" as an implicit denial of the fact that sexual orientation is a part of who we are.

As to why homosexuality itself is not a mental disease, that's because it does no harm in and of itself. There are two things related to homosexuality that do cause harm: living near potentially violent homophobes, and unsafe sex. Both should be avoided but neither constitutes a mental disease.

"There's nothing 'normal' about it."

In that it is a minority orientation, that is true, but irrelevant.

"Just because it's present in the animal world, does not make it right."

Here we have an inability to follow liberal arguments. The common retort that homosexuality exists in nature, which is a documented fact, is not a counterargument to the claim "homosexuality is immoral" but to the claim "homosexuality is unnatural." The latter claim is demonstrably false.

"Why are certain perversions accepted, but not others?"

Informed consent. That's the only distinction that matters.

"Am I an 'incestophobe' too? A 'beastophobe'? A 'pedophobe'?"

You will be called names for as long as you demonstrate willful ignorance about these issues, and no longer.

old comment by Wehpudicabok

(continued)

"Christian values are clearly the backbone of the most noble morality."

Take a class on ethical philosophy and get back to me. The short answer is that you're quite wrong.

"The Bible (which must be read in a scholarly manner)"

I completely agree. Reading the Bible in a scholarly manner is the best way to see its many ethical flaws, historical inaccuracies and internal contradictions. This is why most Biblical scholars aren't literalists.

"The Bible... is against homosexuality, shows you just how enlightened those of the past were."

I could say the same thing, only I would sneer when I said the word "enlightened."

"We got The Golden Rule from The Bible; we learnt The Ten Commandments; why can't we learn sexual morality too?"

The Golden Rule has stood the test of time in contexts other than Christian theocracies. The others have not.

old comment by Passerby

1) Homosexuality is an inborn attraction to the same sex, not a lifestyle. Going to the gym or the club every night is a lifestyle. Rock climbing and regular opera performances are a lifestyle. Something you have no control over like the colour of your eyes, being left handed, or sexual attraction are not lifestyles they're traits. Can you just stop being heterosexual? No? Get it through your head.

2) There's a major difference between normal and an enforced norm. Being left handed is normal, but if you break someones left hand to force them to learn to use their right that is an enforced norm. Humans believe and enforce the concept of personal rights. Rape, theft, and murder violate those rights. Allowing routine violations of those rights can collapse the very structure of civilization.

3) Oh the hamfisted irony. All you've got is false equivilancy, fearmongering, and loud yelling. Have you never heard of informed consent?

4) The Bible also supports rape, slavery, incest, infanticide, and genocidal military campaigns.

5) Violating the rights of another person in order to enforce the norms of your personal beliefs is forcing your beliefs. If we locked everyone who ever said a prayer in an insane asylum until they were 'cured' it would illicit one hell of a reaction on your part and it sure wouldn't be gratitude.

old comment by Qazamir McSmarty Britches

Some animals rape one another. Some steal, and scavenge. Some kill members of the opposite sex after mating. How are these wrong,

Because these are crimes, these things harm others, harms society. Being gay does not harm anything.

Why are certain perversions accepted, but not others?

Am I an 'incestophobe' too?
A 'beastophobe'?
A 'pedophobe'?

Sigh... another fundie who doesn't understand the concept of informed consent.

The fact that The Bible, (which must be read in a scholarly manner), is against homosexuality, shows you just how enlightened those of the past were.

Stoning rape victims or forcing them to marry their rapists is also in the Bible. Not exactly "enlightened".

Thoughts?

Yes, I wish fundies would actually have them, rather than base their morality on bronze age nonsense.

old comment by Doubting Thomas

There's nothing 'normal' about it. Just because it's present in the animal world,

That's some heavy duty fail right there.

I'm not saying everyone should be a Christian,

Riiiiiiight.

I'm just saying, Christian values are clearly the backbone of the most noble morality.

So everybody doesn't have to be a Christian, they just have to accept Christian ideals and beliefs in order for the country to survive. Gotcha.

why can't we learn sexual morality too? Again, I'm not forcing my beliefs,

You really gotta work on those self-contradictory statements. Basically this whole post is nothing more than "I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, but why doesn't everyone believe what I believe?"

old comment by Swede

Yes, you're a homophobe. A sensible, normal, rational human being knows that homosexuality is no more a mental disease than heterosexuality. Homosexuality IS normal; about 10 percent of the population is homosexual. Seen globally in numbers, it's more normal to be gay than to be American.

Rape, theft, and murder all harm other beings, consensual sex between adults harms no-one.
Incest that leads to offspring can cause birth defects, so it's harmful.
Animals can't give informed consent, so it's harmful.
Nor can children, so it's harmful.

What Judeo-values do you want to preserve, as you use "Judeo-Christian values" as opposed to just Christian Values?

Christian Values build on older values, many of which are just common sense and behavioral decency that has evolved through hundreds of thousands of years. God of the Bible performs, or orders, some 2 million murders, according to the Bible, not counting the time he killed off all life-forms on Earth in the Flood. That's the "author" of the Noble Morality that you want to promote...

The Bible is against wearing clothes of mixed fibers, against cutting hair and beard, against eating shellfish, but were perfectly fine with pedophilia, incest, rape and slavery. This is how "enlightened" those of the past were. The Golden Rule is older than the Bible, silly. The Ten Commandments are mostly about how to worship God.

So, you want to learn sexual morality from the Bible? You think it’s OK to rape someone, as long as you marry her afterwards and pay off her father?

Secular humanist propaganda IS the Golden Rule, stupid, and Civil Rights, of course.

Thoughts? Yeah, you're DEFINITELY a homophobe, if it bothers you this much that people you don’t know, have sex that you don't approve of.

old comment by Sangfroid

"I'm a sensible, rational, human being."

I'm sorry, but if you have to defend yourself by telling everyone how wonderful you are (when it should be apparent), then you're a moron

"Why isn't the homosexual lifestyle considered a mental disease?"

Well, because it isn't.

"The Bible, (which must be read in a scholarly manner), is against homosexuality"

I read from left to right. How do you read?

And I am sure a scholar such as yourself is aware that "the Bible is not against homosexuality." The Bible is a book, and cannot be agaist or for anything. Any moral precepts it might contain are reflections of the book's all too human creators.

In addition, the Bible contains a wide variety of rules concerning what food you can eat, what clothing you can wear, how many people you can sleep with and when and on and on.

So, once again, christers pick and choose which of the rules noted in the Bible based on personal prejudice.

Happy Holidays!

old comment by freako104

"I'm not saying everyone should be a Christian, I'm just saying, Christian values are clearly the backbone of the most noble morality."

Such as the Inquisition, witch trials, Salem, Crusuades, killing unbelievers and homosexuals.

Meanwhile many Pagans oppose that and say live as you will. Atheists oppose that and say live as you will. As do other Christians, Muslims, etc. Almost seems like one can be moral without Christianity and even under Christianity immoral things happen.

"The fact that The Bible, (which must be read in a scholarly manner), is against homosexuality, shows you just how enlightened those of the past were. We got The Golden Rule from The Bible; we learnt The Ten Commandments; "

You are right it shows how enlightened they were. They weren't enlightened. And hell the Golden Rule? That not only predates the Bible, other religions have it, but if you read the Bible it does say to kill unbelievers, rape victims, homosexuals, etc.

old comment by UHM

"Can any gay supporters make a logical case, without calling me names or bullying me? Why are certain perversions accepted, but not others?"
Because some of them cause no harm. Homosexuality doesn't cause by itself harm (lifeong bullying for being gay harm the most), but incest produces children with retardations and genetic illnesses (although if one of both partners are sterile we don't have much of argument there), beastiliaty should be animal cruelty since animals are not able to consent as are children (though I personally believe that around the ages of 13 and 14 one becomes able to consent if not de jure at least de facto) so it has to be assumed that they are harmed. The very definition of rape is non-consent, so harm is inflicted during any rape.

"I'm just saying, Christian values are clearly the backbone of the most noble morality."
States should not legislate morality, they should legislate to protect their respective people from real harm.

"We got The Golden Rule from The Bible"
Well you might have, but the world surely didn't. Around 2000 BC, together with writing, the first variations of the golden rule popped up. In Babylonia and Egypt and later between 700BC and 200BC in India, China, Rome and Greece.

old comment by Xotan

Cherrypicking!

The bioble is against a lot more than just man to man sex. It equates with it things like eating shellfish, getting a haircut, eating pork, wearing clothes of muixed fibres...

All are called abominations. So why the concern only with homosexuals? If you want to rely on the bible, then you have to take all of it, including stoning a child that give a back-answer, polygamy, the torrid relationship of David and Jonathan, and Ruth's apecial female friendship. But clearly you don't. You are a cherrypicker, and therefore you are worshipping YOUR version of the bible. That must be blasphemy, so you should be stoned. I'd happily cast the first rock, but I am a sinner.

old comment by xyz

> Just because it's present in the animal world, does not make it right. Some animals rape one another. Some steal, and scavenge. Some kill members of the opposite sex after mating. How are these wrong, but not the gay lifestyle?

Because being gay doesn't cause harm? Ain't that a good reason?

> The fact that The Bible, (which must be read in a scholarly manner), is against homosexuality, shows you just how enlightened those of the past were.

Yes, they were so enlightened that they went around murdering and raping everyone who got in their way. Did I mention that your god was the one who (according to the Bible) commanded them to do the murdering and raping?

You claim to be sensible and rational; yet, your words are neither of these.