I think we need to remember the term sodomy came from a town known as Sodom and Sodom was destroyed by God Almighty and the thing that they practiced was homosexual activity and even they tried to rape angels who came down there, so that's the kind of people they were. But beyond that, Jesus when He spoke of Sodom He didn't say anything about the homosexuality he talked about just the fact that business was as usual until God decided to destroy it. And He sent an angel down there and He said to Lot and his family, ‘get out now because I'm gonna destroy this whole area.' That's where sodomy came from, we use the term sodomy and it means Sodom. What's it like? We're heading that way as a nation. In history there's never been a civilization ever in history that has embraced homosexuality and turned away from traditional fidelity, traditional marriage, traditional child-rearing, and has survived. There isn't one single civilization that has survived that openly embraced homosexuality. So you say, "what's going to happen to America?" Well if history is any guide, the same thing's going to happen to us.
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Wow... so much wrong in so little space...
Hey, Pat... there's never been a civilization that turned away from that shit, period. (and traditional marriage?? WTF is that really, since even the Bible gives several different meanings)
> So you say, "what's going to happen to America?" Well if history is any guide, the same thing's going to happen to us.
Only this time, we have (probably) more accurate ways of recording historic events. Like, eh, the fact that you made this claim now. And we can see how accurate that prediction ended up being in a decade or two. Then, we'll see how much sense it makes to make such analogies.
(just a random comment from a guy who lives in a country where same-sex civil unions have been legal for quite a while now)
"And He sent an angel down there and He said to Lot and his family, get out now because I'm gonna destroy this whole area.' [...] There isn't one single civilization that has survived that openly embraced homosexuality. So you say, "what's going to happen to America?" Well if history is any guide, the same thing's going to happen to us."
Pat, when you compare yourself to Lot, then do us a favour: Just shut up, flee from this "Sodom", and hide in the mountains. Just like Lot did. (I will skip the part what then happened with his daughters...)
Meanwhile, we will see whether America will be destroyed by "god" because it now simply normalizes its attitude towards homosexuality. You want to take a bet? Will New York be destroyed in the next weeks by "fire from the skies"? (A hint: some weeks ago, there was another preacher who predicted something called "The Rapture". Guess what happened? Answer: Nothing happened.)
People like you drive me nuts. Prove that Sodom existed. Go ahead. Don't strain yourself. If you are forced to think to much, surely your brain will either fall out, evacuate, or simply turn off and become this atrophied thing in your head.
Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
You were saying...? Actually, that sounds a lot like Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Fallwell.
Whether a society embraces or turns away from "traditional fidelity, traditional marriage, traditional child-rearing", it won't survive for more than a few hundred years. All past societies have ended, and today's society will end too.
You can embrace both homosexuality and traditional fidelity, traditional marriage, traditional child-rearing, ya know. They are not mutually exclusive. Most people are still heterosexuals, and they will continue to marry and have children.
Traditional fidelity is hardly something that Religious Right leaders practice in abundance.
Btw, what IS traditional fidelity? Staying with your wife in public, while having a few mistresses in secret, and turning them away if they're stupid enough to get pregnant?
I think we need to remember the term sodomy came from a town known as Sodom and Sodom was destroyed by God Almighty and the thing that they practiced was inhospitality and even they tried to rape angels who came down there, so that's the kind of people they were. But beyond that, Jesus when He spoke of Sodom He did say something about inhospitality he also talked about the fact that business was as usual until God decided to destroy it. And He sent an angel down there and He said to Lot and his family, get out now because I'm gonna destroy this whole area.' That's where sodomy came from, we use the term sodomy and it means Sodom. What's it like? We're heading that way as a nation. In history there's never been a civilization ever in history that has embraced inhospitality and turned away from traditional immigration, traditional right of asylum, traditional altruism, and has survived. There isn't one single civilization that has survived that openly embraced inhospitability. So you say, "what's going to happen to America?" Well if history is any guide, the same thing's going to happen to us.
"I think we need to remember the term sodomy"
I think you need to look up the bible verse in EZ. that explains why those towns were destroyed by god. Basically it was because they followed Republican policies.
Your argument is invalid.
Let's take a closer look at that list, shall we?
@Wikipedia's Same-sex Marriage Article
Marriage
Argentina
Belgium
Canada
Iceland
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
I'm pretty sure these countries still exist.
Edit: Isn't lying a sin in Christianity? I guess that doesn't apply when you're lying for Jesus, huh?
Back in 1776 they said:
In history there's never been a civilization ever in history that has embraced democracy and turned away from traditional feudalism, traditional nobility, traditional monarchy, and has survived. There isn't one single civilization that has survived that openly embraced democracy. So you say, "what's going to happen to America?"
There isn't one single ancient civilization that has survived that hasn't openly embraced homosexuality. So you say, "what's going to happen to America if we don't allow homosexuality?" Well if history is any guide, the same thing's going to happen to us.
Fixed.
...embraced homosexuality and turned away from traditional fidelity, traditional marriage, traditional child-rearing
Just because gays can marry doesn't mean that straights cannot. Get over yourself.
Typical stream-of-consciousness wharrgarbl from the Elder Statesman of Fundie-ism himself.
Oh, and the last time I looked, pretty much all civilizations have a finite existence, whether homosexuality was "openly embraced" or not.
[...and even they tried to rape angels who came down there, so that's the kind of people they were. ]
And let's not mention the part where Lot tried to give his daughters to the mob of rapists.
Why are people on the right so addicted to fearmongering? Because people who are scared are easier to control. It's analagous to telling small children that if they don't settle down and go to sleep, the bogeyman will come and get them. Anything that personally threatens Pat's personal power and influence, and often wealth, will, according to him, lead only to a terrible catastrophe, often the destruction of America. The message is always "Obey me, or something terrible will happen".
Exposition from Ezekiel that other commentators have mentioned aside, I just don't see the connection between homosexuality and sodom. The angel-rapists probably weren't straight considering the angel, but keep in mind that angels are portrayed as having no gender. The homosexuality argument would only mean a thing if the angel was male, but it wasn't. Before I read Ezekiel and found the backstory of Sodom, I thought their big sin was a complete lack of sexual restraint, a "gang-rape anything that moves and don't stop until its done" mentality. Which would make "Sodomy" actually mean "gang-rape".
By assuming the angel is male and that God cared more about the Sodomites' sexual preference than sexual activity, you jump to false conclusions and COMPLETELY misinterpret the story of Sodom. Ezekiel's explanation is also nice, but to be frank, since the one time we see Sodom is during an attempted rape scene, I'm pretty sure there's a sexual sin hidden in there too. That sexual sin is gang-rape. Which you fundies can interpret as promiscuity. And what do you know, promiscuity is a sin in Christianity. That's legal and accepted in all 50 states, so why not use Sodom to discourage THAT instead of using it to attack people who were homosexual since the day they were born?
Deer Jesse Christopher, if you're going to use Sodom to justify your fundy nonsense, do it RIGHT!
"And what do you know, promiscuity is a sin in Christianity. That's legal and accepted in all 50 states, so why not use Sodom to discourage THAT instead of using it to attack people who were homosexual since the day they were born?"
Are you really encouraging them to outlaw promiscuity? That's... ugh. None of their victimless "sexual sins" should be enshrined into law, period.
Besides, same-sex sexual activity is every bit as much of a choice as sexual promiscuity. While an inclination to have a wide set of partners isn't any more of a choice than an attraction to the same gender. If you don't respect that, then in my mind, you're not much better than the fundies themselves.
I'm much more at ease with someone who considers both homosexuality and promiscuity a sin but deems that the law should stay away from this kind of purely ethical questions, than with someone who is perfectly accepting of one but endorses legal restrictions against the other.
God damn it, no one's telling you to turn away from traditional fidelity/marriage/child-rearing, already. All we want is for any two consenting partners to share equal rights under the law, how freaking complicated is that? Everything has to be all about sex and how "icky" it is for these idiots.
"But beyond that, Jesus when He spoke of Sodom He didn't say anything about the homosexuality he talked about just the fact that business was as usual until God decided to destroy it."
Jesus also contradicted the story by pointing out that angels are neither male nor female. So either Jesus was mistaken, or the whole Sodom and Gomorrah story isn't about homosexuality at all. Which is it???
You are forgetting the rest of the story Pat. Remember when Lot's daughters (whom Lot tried unsuccessfully to offer to the rape-gang to protect his guests) got him drunk and fathered sons by him? I might add that this took place without a single word of condemnation from your god. Therefore, we can assume that your god is fine with pimping out one's daughters and fathering children by them.
Be sure and mention this Pat. I am sure it will be welcome news to some of your followers.
The sin of Sodom was impoliteness, stupid. Haven't you read the Bible?
Offering up your daughtes as gang-rape victims is apparently fine by God, as is getting your father drunk and "date-rape" him...
Well, to be technical, throughout history, there has been no society that has condemned homosexuality and survived. That's because a society is considered "in history" if it's dead and gone. That's how it works. Although, if we look at history, the most intellectual society, Athens, was rather gay. Sparta, the most badass of badass places? So gay that they had to dress their women up like men and do em in the dark, and even then, just so the society would continue. So yeah.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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