The very weighty criticisms of Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution are readily available, but for whatever reason you choose to ignore them. Note we’re not talking about natural selection, which is something no one (including Biblical creationists, most of whom aren’t as dense as you’d perhaps like to pretend) disputes. But apparently the scores of scientists who doubt Darwinian theory are all just a bunch of yokels, correct? Doubters who include prominent atheists like Antony Flew (who ceased being an atheist and moved to agnosticism before he died) and Thomas Nagel, as well as theists of all stripes.
I would suggest starting at intelligentdesign.org for an overview, then sites like uncommondescent.com, evolutionnews.org, and arn.org for more in-depth discussions of the limits of neo-Darwinism. To sum up—Darwin’s Grand Theory of Evolution is outdated 19th century science (again, NOT talking about natural selection, which is observable and factual, but that theory pre-dates Darwin himself). If Darwin were alive today, he would NOT be a Darwinist. Darwin himself thought the cell was a mere lump of protoplasm, which of course is not proven to be bogus. Believing in neo-Darwinism is like believing a 747 can assemble itself from all its assorted parts scattered on a field, given enough time (1 billion years? 13 billion? 15 quintillion? Doesn’t matter, ain’t gonna happen).
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...Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution...
Sorry, but there is no such thing. Would you like to try again?
The very weighty criticisms of Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution are readily available, but for whatever reason you choose to ignore them.
Because without exception, every last one of them is a PRATT. And yet, each time they're shown to be demonstrably false and debunked, you immediately bring them up yet again as if repeating them over and over will somehow make them true.
. But apparently the scores of scientists who doubt Darwinian theory are all just a bunch of yokels, correct? Doubters who include prominent atheists like Antony Flew (who ceased being an atheist and moved to agnosticism before he died) and Thomas Nagel, as well as theists of all stripes.
Here is a list of scientists who believe in a strict Biblical account of creation. As you read, you will notice that many of them are not biologists or geologists, or indeed specialists in any field where biological evolution is studied. Many of them are engineers, mathematicians and statisticians. Some of them are medical professionals. There are relatively few people on the list who actually have qualifications to speak on the subject of biological evolution. And even if the list was made entirely of biologists, geneticists, and geologists, it would be only a tiny fraction of the total number of people who accept the evidence for evolution and an ancient Earth as the reason behind the complexity of life.
Your criticisms are as weighty as hydrogen.
" Believing in neo-Darwinism is like believing a 747 can assemble itself from all its assorted parts scattered on a field, given enough time"
http://www.genetic-programming.org/sp2003/Marta.pdf
Yes, it is sort of like that.
Note we’re not talking about natural selection, which is something no one (including Biblical creationists, most of whom aren’t as dense as you’d perhaps like to pretend) disputes.
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(again, NOT talking about natural selection, which is observable and factual, but that theory pre-dates Darwin himself).
First, I think we have quite a few quotes on this site from creationists disputing natural selection.
Second, what the hell does this guy think Darwin’s theory says, if it isn’t natural selection?
Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution
Darwin never said anything about molecules arranging themselves to create life. You stupid ignorant fundies always confuse abiogenesis with evolution.
Doubters who include prominent atheists like Antony Flew
Anthony Flew never said he doubted evolution. He merely said that he thought there might be a higher power of some sort. Even if he said that he didn't believe in evolution, it doesn't mean that evolution is wrong.
I would suggest starting at intelligentdesign.org for an overview, then sites like uncommondescent.com, evolutionnews.org, and arn.org for more in-depth discussions of the limits of neo-Darwinism.
Oh yes, I'm sure those websites are unbiased sources of peer-reviewed information.
Ah, the old "I have oodles of evidence" bait, followed by the "read this blog" switch.
Classic.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be over here reading these peer-reviewed journals.
If Darwin were alive today, he would NOT be a Darwinist.
And if Christ were alive he wouldn't be a Christian. Probably, given the intelligence attributed to him, he'd be an atheist.
On the Origin of Species: By Means of Natural Selection
It is in the title you idiots. How can people be so wilfully ignorant they sound like spoiled children:
'Well fine, you have proved natural selection but you haven't proved speciation in terms I can understand. Evolution is still false and intelligent design is still the one truth.'
On a side note when will these idiots stop comparing life processes to inanimate objects? The 747/car building itself comparison is illogical and ignores the possibility of advances in robotics.
Yes, Darwin's theory wasn't completely accurate at the time of writing, but that's why we can refine and improve theories.
Also, the 747 thing is silly for a variety of reasons. It's overly specific and illustrates a basic misunderstanding of evolution, assuming that there is a "goal" of evolution. It's more like the odds of eventually coming up with something that glides if you kept throwing chunks of metal until you find some that go farther, altering those, taking the ones that go farther again, and repeating this continuously. You probably won't end up with a 747, but you'll certainly end up with something that flies better than the original scrap. The main unlikely part is that you even have the field of scrap in the first place. Similarly, abiogenesis may be rare, but given enough billions of planets, you're going to find life on some of them. Evolution itself is a process, not an end.
If you're NOT talking about natural selection, then we don't know what the heck you're talking about, dearie, because that is EXACTLY what the Theory of Evolution is all about: The adaptation and diversification of life, through random mutations and natural selection.
You ought to check out Project Steve, honey. That will show you what the "scores of scientists who doubt evolution" are worth.
intelligentdesign.org made me laugh until I got hiccups that took me 20 minutes to get rid of.
If other FSDT readers have a similar experience, maybe we can file a class action suit.
"But apparently the scores of scientists who doubt Darwinian theory are all just a bunch of yokels, correct?"
Correct. "Scientists" LOL.
Just another dipsh*t who has never read any of Darwin's writings, doesn't understand evolution, doesn't understand that Darwin lived in the 19th century and has no idea that there is more to the modern ToE than just Darwin.
Except for his failure to understand or address the already existant rebuttals to his claims, this makes a lot of sense. It doesn't matter how certain we may feel about iur convictions, they aren't knowledge until we've tested them against the arguments that try to refute them. I've been to the others, but I've never heard of arn.org. I'll check it out.
"But apparently the scores of scientists who doubt Darwinian theory are all just a bunch of yokels, correct?"
Yes, that is correct. But unless these scientists are biologists, then their ignorant opinions regarding evolution are every bit as irrelevant as yours.
"I would suggest starting at [a bunch of pseudo-scientific sites]..."
Yeah, your sources are all heavily biased and unscientific. Fail!
"neo-Darwinism."
There is no such thing as this. Adding "neo-" and "-ism" onto things to make up your own words doesn't make you sound smart, it makes you sound like a crackpot who's totally ignorant of what he's arguing against. Second fail!
"Believing in neo-Darwinism is like believing a 747 can assemble itself from all its assorted parts scattered on a field..."
Resorting to a long-since debunked argument. Third fail! Now GTFO, you ignorant creature.
"Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution"
a) Evolution only deals with life that already exists, how it came to be isn't any of evolutions concern.
b) You are still made out of molecules...
"But apparently the scores of scientists who doubt Darwinian theory are all just a bunch of yokels, correct?"
Yes.
Anthony Flew and Thomas Nagel are not actually scientists, but philosophers.
Actually, there are people who dispute the role of natural selection in evolution. I've spoken to them personally.
Ah, the 747 argument. Is it not obvious that a comparison between living and non-living things, when we're talking about the evolution of life, is a really, really bad analogy?
"Believing in neo-Darwinism is like believing a 747 can assemble itself from all its assorted parts scattered on a field, given enough time (1 billion years? 13 billion? 15 quintillion? Doesn’t matter, ain’t gonna happen)."
Yeah, but isn't it strange how two human beings, and a shit ton of meat, dairy, fruit and vegetables in some combination can produce another human in about 9 months?
What a sludge of ignorance.
First of all there is no "Darwin's Grand Theory of Evolution." Darwin made the contribution of Natural Selection but 150 years have passed.
The current Theory of Evolution (ToE) is a modern synthesis of Genetic and Evolutionary theory. Darwin would be flabbergasted at the modern ToE.
An "agnostic" is a type of "atheist." Gnostic vs agnostic has to do with knowledge. Theist vs. atheist has to do with belief. 98% of atheists are "agnostic atheists." They don't believe but they don't claim to be sure.
As for the 747 thing, do we have to explain again that airplanes don't reproduce biologically and evolution doesn't postulate going form nothing to a complex organism in one leap but in tiny increments?
"Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution"
Already you're chasing after a straw man. Way to go.
"Believing in neo-Darwinism is like believing a 747 can assemble itself from all its assorted parts scattered on a field, given enough time"
Except chemistry and biology don't work that way. However, believing in creationism is like saying that beaches are made of bits of fairy dust that gnomes harvest from pixies.
To be honest, "Darwinian molecules-to-man evolution" isn't an entirely wrong term if we go with the theory that says that evolution started with RNA. It's just that it's a very complex molecule, and not a simple one like water, CO2 or methane.
"Believing in neo-Darwinism is like believing a 747 can assemble itself from all its assorted parts scattered on a field, given enough time."
And you say we're ignorant of the counterarguments on offer.
I'm sure every "argument" on those sites has a rebuttal in talkorigins.org's index of creationist claims, which has been online for years. Look it up and learn something for a change, instead of blindly agreeing with woo.
"Note we’re not talking about natural selection, which is something no one (...) disputes."
Plenty of creationists dispute this.
"Antony Flew" yeah, deathbed conversions ... sure.
"747" this was old 10 years ago.
"Doesn’t matter, ain’t gonna happen" this is just factually incorrect.
They spit bullshit faster than we can debunk and they ignore our replies. Debates are a waste of time.
Did a creationist once overhear a pilot refer to a Jumbo Jet as a "fucking 747" ?
Because that's the only way i can conceive of that this peurile argument could get going.
Hmm, the abiogenesis of creationist arguments... maybe we should be looking for the unintelligent designer.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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