The thing is I see how gay rights movement systematically operates in our culture, where Christians are ending up being persecuted: like in University of Missouri a student almost got expelled because she opposed gay adoption, there are many more cases like that. Now, there is a movement called Soulforce, whose attempt is to influence public opinion that the biblical position on homosexuality that many Christians hold, is an act of hateful violence. I wasn't convinced of that until I went to their website, and humbly shared with them the information about how our Christian brothers and sisters are being discriminated for their beliefs. I wanted to raise awareness, hoping to reach their hearts. Some of them seemed respectful at first, but then started accusing me of being 'antigay.' They even called an organization Alliance Defense Fund, that helped a lot of people defend their 1st Amendment right, as something similar to Nazism. I told them that I thought it was not right to call anybody who stands for justice, as ADF does, as antigay or so forth and I left. Was I being too harsh? But I believe I had to say that.
I'm worried folks, these guys go around the country and talk how oppressed they are and blame conservative Christians for that, attack Christian schools, and compare family advocates like James Dobson and James Kennedy to Hitler's Nazis. God knows, if their rhetoric could influence the government. The question I have is: how do we reach people like that with Christ's love and tell them the truth at the same time?
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Poor, poor persecuted Sammy. I'm certain he was probably criticised for the typical homophobic tripe these types of people deliberately post on blatantly obvious pro-homosexual equality websites. I'm sure it was long the lines of "God made Adam & Eve, not Adam and Steve!!!!!", followed by a long list of passages from Leviticus, references to Sodom and Gamorrah and ended with the promise that if they accept Christ, they can be "cured of their gayness".
Replace the word "gay" in your post with "black" and we would be living in our parent's generation. You and people like your are no different than those who tried to supress African Americans for so long, but fortunately we learned from those lessions and will not let extreme nutcases like you have so much control. Grow up and worry about more important things. How people live their lives should be none of your concern.
The question I have is: how do we reach people like that with Christ's love and tell them the truth at the same time?" It's easy, tell them,
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Almost expelled?, what happened?, did they put a leg in the outside and one inside?. Be clear man. One thing is to oppose adoption, and simply express it, or harrass and insult homosexuals, which I´m afraid that´s what this guy did instead. Second, call a person WHO HAS DONE NOTHING to you sinner, is to be antigay. And you have to understand this, the first amendment doesn´t protect you from the opinion of others. The same right you have to quote the Bible, they have not to believe in it in the first place(1st amendment remember)and to have their own opinion on the topic. No matter how much you say that it´s in the Bible, you don´t have a right to "convince". If you don´t agree with homosexual adoption, fine, but don´t expect others NOT TO.
The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with war, the Ministry of Truth with lies, the Ministry of Love with torture...
Oh, for the love of all that's good, please stop with this persecution complex. Were you being too harsh? No; you were just being your fucktarded, homophobic, alarmist self.
We SERIOUSLY need that picture of the piegraph of religions in America, with the big 75% Christian saying "Help, we're being oppressed!" www.soulforce.org .
And yes, they do define what they call "spiritual violence" in their mission statement: "the misuse of religion to sanction the condemnation and rejection of any of God’s children."
Being black is not the same thing as being a homosexual: one implies a physical appearance while the other one implies a behavior. You can always change your behavior. As simple as that. I'm amazed at how activists like Soulforce lack a basic common sense. BTW, many African Americans reject homosexual sex, including Bernice King.
If Soulforce compares Dobson to Hitler, then I think it's fair to compare Mel White and his henchman Jamie McDaniel to Lenin and Trotsky.
@ Sammy: homosexuality is not a behaviour, it is an attraction, and is just as unchangable as being black is(in fact, possibly more so--skin bleaching products work somewhat, "reparative therapy" doesn't. Not, of course, saying that any black person should or should be expected to bleach their skin, obviously).
"You can always change your behavior"
the question is, why should we? Cos it doesn't fit in with god or some fundie belief? boo hoo. Cry me a river.
I guess homosexuality is both: attraction and sexual behavior. However, the Bible's only criticism deals strictly with the sexual behavior. I don't really care who people are attracted to, but I believe that certain sexual acts on i, both heterosexual and homosexual, are sinful. I know that most people who've been through exgay ministries, still retained their homosexual orientation, in some way. Also, have you ever heard of Courage International?
szenah:
The link you provided, says exactly that Emily Brooker was displined for refusing to do an assignment writing a letter to a Missouri legislation lobbying for a same-sex adoption. She refused to participate in it, and she got in trouble. What am I missing here?
BTW, I don't feel sorry for that professor who got suspended, as a result of a lawsuit. I think ADF got him good. He was put on academic leave, not because of a discrimination because of his sexual orientation, but because he abused his power towards his students.
What you're missing is that the disciplinary action was for refusing to do assigned work, not for any opinion.
When I was in school I sometimes had to write a paper taking a view that I didn't personally agree with. I just wrote the damn paper, I didn't whine about how persecuted I was.
If these "persecuted" Christians succeed in their demand to be exempted from any assignment dealing with the possibility of understanding a view conflicting with their own doctrines or representing a client who does not subscribe to their beliefs, this could help me greatly. On the same grounds, I could, as an anarchist, demand a free ride through law school: demanding that I answer questions as if law had ethical legitimacy is functionally the same as asking a right-wing authoritarian Christian to imagine how they would represent a non-RWAC client.
You know, Billy Graham once said that homosexuality is not the worst sin in the world, and it's true. Dr. Graham said that pride and selfishness are the root causes of the man's fall, and it's true; no wonder, these sins are discussed so broadly in the Bible.
@ Sammy: I don't see why I should change the way I act because some desertdwelling nomads who claimed to be talking for a god think I'm immoral.
"Also, have you ever heard of Courage International?"
Yep, it's a Catholic "Pro-chastity" organisation for gay people.
"There are much more serious things for which they should burn in Hell than the practice of homosexuality. Like, for instance, talking to your brethren in an angry manner. "
ALL gays do this?!
sammy1980:
I can't speak for my brethren, but I know that I could care less if someone "speaks in an angry manner," but when you and yours actively try and make sure that we are kept as second class citizens, then of course I'll speak up. I mean, heavens forbid I try and protect my well being.
Having a right to marry anybody you want, just like having a right to get any job you want, is neither civil, nor constitutional right, so the issue of second class citizenship is irrelevant, here.
BTW, M.L. King fought against segregation not against employment non-discrimination. That was Jesse Jackson.
@sammy, again:
An equal-rights question is an equal-rights question, even if not directly addressed in the Constitution. Special rights for one group (heterosexuals at present) implies a second-class status for others.
Also -- King opposed employment discrimination as well (though he admitted to the possible necessity of affirmative action until systemic racism could be dismantled -- which still hasn't happened); not to mention war, sexism, red-baiting and oppression generally.
oh really? what about Soulforce, aren't they imposing their views on others?
I know for a fact that professors in colleges who teach homosexual agenda are imposing their views on everybody else, and if any conservative students openly disagree with it, they get punished. The conservative students in colleges are being persecuted, and the only retards are those liberal professors who forcefully indoctrinate students with homosexual agenda.
Yeah those damn lieberal college brainwashers! Fsiling our hildren for holding to the biblical truth that niggers are scum!
moron. Their is no argument at all against gay marriage, adoption or any other right . Even the religious ones fail, if any of these people where actually doing it for Jesus they'd put the slightest effort towards the other 100 or so sins we legally allow. They dont because they just hate homosexuals, no anti-gay christian can explain what seperates them from Christian identity except for "They're not real christians!"
Being told off for persecuting others is not the same as being persecuted, sammy.
How could anyone find you people hateful and violent? All you do is picket funerals and shout "Thank God for AIDS", beat people to a pulp for liking a person of the same gender, rape lesbians to "cure" them. How can people find these acts anti-gay?
Yuck! My stomach aches from writing that paragraph.
What in the 1st Amendments relates to gays?"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
For the final freakin' time, Christians are NOT persecuted in the U.S.! If they were, then there wouldn't be Bibles in every single hotel room in America, now would there? And Christians wouldn't be allowed to wear Christian T-shirts and/or jewelry in public, and churches would be monitored. Do Christians get beaten up or even killed in America for being Christian? And by screaming "Oppression", aren't you being rude, stupid, and disrespectful towards Christians getting persecuted(for real) in places like Africa, Saudi Arabia, China, and North Korea? Look before you leap, and think before you speak, fool.
Some of the gays are Christians too, silly-nilly.
Trying to infringe on other people's rights could be cause for expulsion, yes. And this is just bigotry, not Christianity.
Yes, thinking that all gays should be executed is hateful violence.
Your homosexual brothers and sisters are even more discriminated for how they were born. Religion is a choice, homosexuality is not.
Equal rights IS justice. You just said that injustice, like prohibiting gay adoption, was OK.
You were being too stupid.
You people go around the country and talk about how oppressed you are, even though you are a YUGE majority, and blame a small persecuted minority for it.
Christ's love? Perhaps you ought to study Matthew 25:35-46 some more...
She "ALMOST" got expelled? That's persecution?
I mean, in other places, Judge Moore directs county clerks to actively discriminate against same sex marriages in direct opposition to the law of the land. That idiot clerk in NC refused to do her job in support fo the law she swore to uphold.
Little to no sympathy, here.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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