***poster is comparing homosexuality to murder***
Why do you think the response should be particularly different if the couple sitting across from you are the same sex and share with you about their sexual relations and love for one another and how can the church condemn them?
I absolutely agree that we must share the gospel and the truth of God in love, but there's a line that can't be crossed in saying that and watching a sinner kill, steal, fornicate or practice any other immoral sexual practice before your very eyes. And, as a born again believer, I would never support, encourage or approve of the idea that anyone is born that way. Committing sin before God is a choice. It is always a choice.
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"You're sitting there minding your own business and a guy comes in dragging someone by the neck and sits down across from you and puts a knife to their throat and pulls it across their throat and blood splashes out all over you and the seats and nearby passengers as his victim grabs their throat and bleeds to death. What's your response? What do you say to him about God?"
Nothing. I'd remove myself from the situation and call the police.
Minding your own fucking business is a choice too. You could just choose to not force your beliefs on people who aren't interested in having your church control their lives.
Also, a consenting and loving relationship between two adults is not equal to murder.
Once again, homophobic Christians demonstrate how they are unable to differentiate between blatant acts of violence and consensual acts of intimacy between adults. Oh, and homosexuality is just fucking, no ifs, ands, or buts.
Yaeh yeah, when you start feeling about and discriminating against divorcees the same way you feel about and discriminate against gays, come back to me and I'll reconsider your current designation as a lying bigotted peice of hypocritical trash who pretends to follow the teachings of Jesus in order to hide your disgusting prejudices.
"share with you about their sexual relations"
It's always about the sex with you people, isn't it? And you call us perverts.
Two things:
1. I don't know anyone, gay or straight, who shares intimate details about their sex life the way you describe it
If I saw someone in the act of committing murder I would try to intervene if possible and at the very least call the police.
On the other hand, when I see two consenting adults in love, regardless of their genders, I do not equate them with murderers.
Only a twisted mind would equate love with brutally murdering someone, but I guess that is how the Xian mind has been warped. After all, their god had its "son" brutally murdered as an "act of love." When that is the foundation of your religious beliefs, I can see how it would be hard to tell the difference between love and hate.
Yes, of course, the cult of Bible God, like many other religions, is a perfect enabler and justification for openly displaying your insanity, not only on board trains, but anywhere and everywhere.
The use of Christianity as an acknowledged rationale for the maniacal urge to babble indiscriminately about your strange emotional need to be a nasty bastard is an unfortunate consequence of its unrelenting drivel.
"What's your response? What do you say to him about God?"
1) I know people can't make these claims without being in the situation before, but I doubt I'd just sit there and watch him slit that guy's throat. I also doubt that everyone else on the train would let someone get dragged by the neck across the train.
2) If events transpired the way you described (very low chance), I'd be saying nothing about God. I would be calling 911 and trying to get as far away from the madman with a knife as possible. Sure, you can sit there lecturing him about God, be my guest.
Warren McIntosh: They do. I can't even begin to count the number of them who have told me over the years that unless there's adultery, divorce is a sin.
Additional catch: even if you attend the one church in a billion that allows for divorce in the case of abuse or doesn't chastise you for being a divorced woman, remarriage is something that Jesus mentioned specifically as a sin, so you can't do that. Unless you're a man. Then whatever you do is pretty much acceptable, justified, and forgiven.
Yet another fundie who doesn't understand the difference between an act that harms others and an act that doesn't.
or practice any other immoral sexual practice before your very eyes.
Only in fundieworld does two gay people sitting together = immoral sexual practice being carried out in public.
So, have you sold all your possessions and given the money to the poor yet? No? Why?
Ever picked sticks on a Sabbath? Wore clothes of mixed fabrics? Cut your hair and beard? Touched a menstruating woman?
Fantasy about a gay couple talking to you? Is there something you would like to confide in us?
OR, get used to the fact that gay people no longer hide from the 'threat' of society's disapproval. Most reasonable, sane and decent people are not interested in what gay people do in private. Nor are most gay people likely to want to confide in strangers about being gay, let alone their private sexual acts.
I think Miamited is lonely and is really appealing for some gay contact - well, that the impression he gives me.
You're sitting there minding your own business and a guy comes in dragging someone by the neck and sits down across from you and puts a knife to their throat and pulls it across their throat and blood splashes out all over you and the seats and nearby passengers as his victim grabs their throat and bleeds to death.
First, in what reality would this scenario actually happen?
Why do you think the response should be particularly different if the couple sitting across from you are the same sex and share with you about their sexual relations and love for one another and how can the church condemn them?
Oh I don't know, but I'll take a wild guess... maybe because it is nothing like slashing a persons throat?
And, as a born again believer, I would never support, encourage or approve of the idea that anyone is born that way.
No one is asking you to approve of it. However you are being asked to mind your own business, Please do that.
Committing sin before God is a choice.
Yes, sin, God, choice... blah blah blah...
~qaz.
Thou shalt not murder is pretty clearly one of God's commandments.
Admonitions of homosexuality appear in, what, three passages? And there's pretty heavy debate to how faithfully they were translated. And NONE of them make the big 10.
A.) I wouldn't share jack about God with a murderer. I would run for my life or, if possible, try and stop him. I wouldn't bother telling him anything about God.
B.) You people aren't even trying anymore. You're just saying "homosex is murder!"
"I absolutely agree that we must share the gospel and the truth of God in love, but there's a line that can't be crossed in saying that and watching a sinner kill, steal, fornicate or practice any other immoral sexual practice before your very eyes."
Or, you know, not sell everything you own and give away your money... like Jesus commanded you to?
The thing I find disturbing, other than the fact that fundies always seem to equate homosexuality with murder, is that this person would rather try to preach the gospel to someone committing a murder rather than stopping the murder in the first place.
"So, based on Bryans explanation, let's board the train again. You're sitting there minding your own business and a guy comes in dragging someone by the neck and sits down across from you and puts a knife to their throat and pulls it across their throat and blood splashes out all over you and the seats and nearby passengers as his victim grabs their throat and bleeds to death. What's your response? What do you say to him about God? Do you pat his hand and tell him that it's all ok and you just keep doing what you're doing. Hey God loves everybody and especially those who are living in sin.
"
1) What if the killer is a Christian?
2)What does this situation have to do with homosexuality?
3)Why would we share a damn thing about god with the killer as opposed to calling the police? Also see #1.
4)Why would other passengers allow the person to be dragged on?
5)If god loves those especially those who sin, you enable said killer not only to kill that victim.
The only "choice" in homosexuality is acting on the attraction.
If *any* couple or individual person, gay or straight, came up to me and started talking about their "sexual relations", I would be rightly creeped/freaked the hell out... do people actually do this where miamited lives? I think not.
Also if s/he truly can't see the difference between violently ending another person's life and simply being in a same-sex marriage or relationship, then I just don't even know what to say.
I don't say anything about imaginary characters, I call the non-imaginary police.
Your analogy fails immediately as homosexuality doesn't kill people.
What's your response? What do you say to him about God?
Yup, if somebody were to brutally murder somebody else right across from me in a train, the first thing I would do would be to strike up a conversation about God.
When splattered with the warm blood of murder victims, I always want to discuss finer points of God and religion with the murderer. Every time
What else could possibly cross my mind at that moment? I mean, really?
Do you pat his hand and tell him that it's all ok and you just keep doing what you're doing. Hey God loves everybody and especially those who are living in sin.
You report him to the police, same as if he's raping someone or stealing someone's wallet or doing anything else illegal.
Why do you think the response should be particularly different if the couple sitting across from you are the same sex
You mind your own business, same as if he's eating sushi, reading 50 Shades of Gray or wearing a pink leisure suit or doing anything else that's perfectly legal but you personally don't like.
as a born again believer, I would never support, encourage or approve of the idea that anyone is born that way
So you're basically saying you think you could become gay if you were talked you into it.
"And, as a born again believer, I would never support, encourage or approve of the idea that anyone is born that way. "
You see, there's this little thing called scientific evidence that trumps what you merely do or don't want to be true.
Honestly, *why* would anyone choose to be gay, given the kind of treatment they get? You must acknowledge that gay people experience physical desire for members of the same sex. And that you, presumably, don't. And that you never will, no matter what happens. So, logically, there is some inherent difference between you and a gay person.
Just to change tempo; Steed from the Avengers,
are you sure #1553682 science isn't a working girl doing any old tricks you pay her to perform?
I am all for science, and see how I keep using that word, you think means something else.
You must acknowledge coprophiliacs make voluntary well informed decisions about their future and its never anyone's business?
You must acknowledge inyourfaceism doesn't give anyone any choices at all.
Sorry I'm late.
#1553704
thanks, I'm bringing this forward because too many pages open simply spins my head around.
Think of it this way, or your way, which ever comes more naturally to you noneofmybusiness; this will be the first time in the history of the world there will exist an institutional sanction and plan to separate children from one of their biological parents from birth.
The minds of men thus constituted are not looking so sound.
not homophobia, not Islamophobia, not xenophobia-
more the aesthetics of the ascetic; was driving around thinking of you and Simon the Stylite and how extreme asceticism doesn't get emulated for long.
You see having spoken with them who know, I was reminded about ritual satanic abuse of the vulnerable. Something most people presume doesn't exist. The reasons for the existence of evil and what evil uses as a tool in the hands of the fool; are not quite right for this page.
We tinker more with common denominators till more alert to the wider world of wider worlds.
Another one of those justification posts. Just as much as Liberal Christians ignore certain parts of the Bible, so do conservative Christians. The thing is, it is impossible to do everything in the Bible, because like every abrahamistic holy text it is written to be inconsistend. It is written in a way so that no matter how hard you try, you can't be without sin. It is this way because being sinful is control - and not by the church but by society as a greater whole, to control the individuals actions, to deliver a holy law were normal law can change. Like writting is for the constance of a language, religion is for society. Of course the main difference between Liberal and Conservative Christian is that while the Liberal Christian adopts ethics that are foreign to his religion but dominant in society while justifying this only with his/her emotions, the Conservative (or Revisionist) Christian rejects majority society as a whole - in the process ironicly becoming a radical - while trying to control just that.
@1553761: Presuming consequentialist ethics, of course.
Okay, let's contrast murder and homosexuality to see if miamited's statement holds water.
If there were an equivalence, it would still be illegal as there would be a dead body involved. But there isn't, so there's no equivalence. Besides, how common is it for "a couple" where one drags the other and slashes their throat and leaves him to bleed to death? Wouldn't the extraordinary nature of this crime make the papers? And, most interesting of all, how are your clothes soiled by sitting across from a gay couple?
I'm guessing you mean strangers. So gay or straight, they shouldn't just sit down and start talking to you about their "sexual relations."
> Did he just call killing a "sexual practice?"
Yep, and stealing too. Probably a mistake.
Also, am I the only one who understands the argument? He's starting from the premise that the Bible (not the harm principle or the law or personal feelings) is the supreme morality, and that (as "he who has violated the least of these commandments has violated them all" implies) people should react to all violations the same way.
Of course, this argument (a) only works with "open and affirming" Christians (b) only works if one has no morals other than the Bible, and is thus a psychopath (c) is probably hypocritical, if he hasn't given all possessions to the poor. But it is not the non-sequitor people are making it out to be.
@Ahvaren
"What's your response? What do you say to him about God?"
2) If events transpired the way you described (very low chance), I'd be saying nothing about God. I would be calling 911 and trying to get as far away from the madman with a knife as possible. Sure, you can sit there lecturing him about God, be my guest.
Heh, you know, he might actually do it: for some god-botherers, finding themselves with an opportunity to preach at someone seems to override their preservation instinct. He'd still be outclassed by the loons who jumped in lions enclosures in zoos to preach to the big kitties, Daniel style (there have been several cases, IIRC).
@Sicko: and don't forget his fag hag Mary Magdalene... :P
Why, yes. It is a choice. MY choice. MINE. Not my mother's, not my father's, not God's, and certainly not yours. It is my choice to spend my life with a wonderful man who loves me, nurtures me. Someone who actually cares for my well-being, instead of the multiple girls my mother and church foisted upon me, who only saw me as some ticket to salvation they needed to punch. It's my perogative to be with someone who makes me happy. Someone who makes me feel loved.
And you know what? It's your perogative not support what I do. It's your perogative not to like me, or what I represent. But for the love of whatever god you worship, keep it to yourself. I'm not going to regale you with stories about what I do in my private time, or whatever dark thought crosses my mind, so please extend me the same courtesy.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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