ned f #fundie

ned f #fundie answers.yahoo.com

"God was pretty useless to Mary, don't you think? She really needs a place to have his baby. She didn't even consent to have it, he dumped it on her, and he can't even give her lodging. She has to have it in a barn. Way to go, God. Can't even help the woman you dumped a baby on."

Actually, you are missing the point of the story.

Society back then did not care about women or unwed mothers -- especially women who were so poor that they had to have their baby in a barn.

The point of the story is that god still cares about you even when no one else does.

You sound like a spoiled brat if you always think that compassion means material wealth & comfort.

Should God have given her caviar and bon-bons?

46 comments

old comment by John

Who says Mary was so poor she had to have her baby in a barn? The Bible just says she "laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn." The simplest explanation was she went into labor and the inn was already filled with other guests. People have twisted this to believe they were refused room in the inn because they were poor. Nonsense. Bethlehem is a good three days away from Nazareth. Were they sleeping in stables for the whole trip? They probably had an animal or two, donkeys or camels for the trip. The idea that Mary would have walked 75 miles 9 months pregnant is ridiculous. The animals would have been sufficient security. They wouldn't have been dressed any worse than anyone else. No one in those days dressed up to travel - that would be an invitation to get robbed. Joseph was a carpenter, so in a day when most people were unskilled farm laborers, he would have been better off than most. We also know from later that they were well-off enough to spend the holidays each year in Jerusalem. Joseph was a direct ancestor of King David, and Bethlehem was the City of David; so they wouldn't have been denied a room on social grounds, either.

Neither the stable nor the inn would have been heated - Bethlehem is about 10 degrees cooler than Los Angeles, and guests would have been dressed for those temperatures while traveling. The stable would have had more room and privacy for giving birth. They would have slept on the same straw whether they were in the inn or the stable.

old comment by El Guapo

"Should God have given her caviar and bon-bons?"

Dinner would have been nice.

@Garfield--The wooing of Mary by God (through an angel, qv below) is weird, but I don't think it hardly qualifies as rape.

Luke Ch.1
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[c] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."

38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.

old comment by Lady Anne

The Bible mentions nothing about a stable. The same greek word translated in this passage as "inn" is used for "upper room" later in the Gospel accounts. Modern scholars have suggested this would be better rendered as "guest room".
The Romans had ordered each person to return to his native town to be registered. The gathering of Joseph's family must have been quite a crowd - so much so that the room that was generally kept for guests was not available. But it would have been an insult for Joseph and Mary to be turned away by his family, so they were given the best place they had available. They would have been well taken care of.
Also Mary wouldn't have been left alone to deliver the baby - every woman in the town would have gathered round to assist.

old comment by Horsefeathers

"Actually, you are missing the point of the story."

It's more likely you who don't have a fucking clue.

"Society back then did not care about women or unwed mothers -- especially women who were so poor that they had to have their baby in a barn."

Yep, I was right. Mary was not necessarily "so poor" that she had the baby in the barn, there was no fucking room at the inn.

"The point of the story is that god still cares about you even when no one else does."

Yeah? Then where the hell was he? He didn't even show up in person at the birth. The least he could have done was give Mary a place to stay and a couple of midwives to help out but noooo, she gets a pile of hay and some barn animals.

"You sound like a spoiled brat if you always think that compassion means material wealth & comfort."

Once again you show how little you understood the other poster's point.

"Should God have given her caviar and bon-bons?"

A fucking bed would have been nice. Guess that was beyond the power of your omnipotent deity though.

old comment by Allegory for Jesus

"The point of the story..."

That's exactly the problem. If it was an actual occurrence, then you could have multiple perspectives on the matter and draw conclusions about reality from it. You could learn about the nature of God, rather than seeing it is incredibly bizarre, ridiculous, and in contrast with what we are led to believe about God and reality itself. When it is just a story however, and nothing more, there is a preconceived moral that you are supposed to draw from it. It is an allegory; a legend with a lesson; a tall tale with a philosophy to further. These just do not happen as often and cleanly in real life and are the hallmarks of fiction.

"You sound like a spoiled brat if you always think that compassion means material wealth & comfort."

Then why the f$%# do I hear all this crap about being given material rewards and unending comfort as the sole motivation for getting into heaven? Does that not count as God's ability to provide for us and show compassion unlike on Earth?

old comment by FMG

Translated to mordern relationships...

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."

"Hey! My friend really likes you. And he has a porsche!"

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.

"Get lost, you creep."

30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.

"But he really digs you!"

31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

"And he will give you... er... a Pony? YEAH! A PONY!!!"

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

But its my first time and I want it to be special

"Hey, he's good! Just ask your cousin!"

38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her

"Why does everything smell of chlorofor..."

Jehovah's real smooth like that. Atleast Krishna turned up in person to seduce the ladies... Hell he did not even need a wingman.

ned f #fundie answers.yahoo.com

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