dave Hawkins #fundie

dave Hawkins #fundie talkrational.org

THE SLIPPERY SLOPE

[Fictional but somewhat plausible scenario]
2011 - Admins on internet forums are lenient on people who make posts about killing people in cold blood
2012 - Various government agencies, being underfunded anyway, stop prosecuting internet crimes
2013 - Anti-Christian hate groups start killing Christians and largely get away with it
2014 - A new law is enacted which labels Christians as "subversive to society"
2015 - Football stadiums accross the nation add a new event to generate more revenue - Lions Eating Christians

Before you laugh, stop and think ... did the Romans just wake up one day all of a sudden and say "Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!"

No. There were most certainly steps leading up to it.

Where do you want society to be in 20 years?

237 comments

old comment by Xotan

Firstly, it's Christians that are gloryfying violence. WBC revels in the deaths of fellow Americans performing duties in the armed forces of that country. They also vrbally try to terrorize gays, and in subscribing to the Bible would have no probalem with gays being killed a la Leviticus.

It was Christians that were responsible for the death of a young man whom the physically abused and left tied to a fence to freeze to death overnight.

So if Christians don't like the idea of being persecuted, perhaps they shouldn't engage in it themselves.

Also dave knows very little about Rome. The death games started probably with the Etruscans - pre Rome as a dominant political power. The exposing of prisoners (including a few Christians) was never the main purpose of the amphitheatre. It was usually done during the lunch break. Rather the Romans enjoyed the gladiatorial contests and, much like horse-racing of today, they betted on the outcome of fights. They particularly chariot racing (see Ben Hur!). Chariot racing was held in an elongated track such as the Circus Maximus in Rome - the course is still an open place and can be used as a pleasant place to take a stroll. But feeding people to animals wasn't really all that successful. The noise of the crowd quite often terrified the beasts and they simply ran back into their lairs under the arena.

Get an education.

old comment by Anon

Well, I want society in 20 years to be at the point where we act more rationally, much less irrationally. To massacre christians is an abhorrent thought, and I strongly hope that this will never ever happen (and it will most probably NOT happen). Doing so would be completely against the principles of secular humanism.

I rather hope that society will gradually simply lose interest in religious fairy-tales. That people just turn away from organized religion, become disinterested in it. That religion will be viewed with a notion of nostalgic amusement some day, and a feeling "Good that we got over this nonsense."

Exactly this you can observe in Europe's younger generation now. In the old christian strongholds of Spain, Italy, even Poland, the churches are losing their members. In droves. In 20 years, mainly only the very old people in Europe will be religious. Religion is not actively suppressed here. It simply dies out, because its time is over.

And thats a good thing.

old comment by Mister Spak

"2015 - Football stadiums accross the nation add a new event to generate more revenue - Lions Eating Christians"

Can we start this sooner?

"Before you laugh, stop and think ... did the Romans just wake up one day all of a sudden and say "Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!"

No, first they realised that christianity was a threat to the survival of Rome. Obviously they didn't feed enough lions, because Christianity destroyed Rome as soon as Constantine made it the official state religion.

"Where do you want society to be in 20 years?"

I want us to be exporting all our religious extremists to a place run by different religious extremists, where they will learn why we have separation of church and state.

old comment by Anon

Dave Hawkins, I'm sorry, but we will NOT do you the favour of feeding you to lions.

Yes, when I say 'favour', I mean it. You are playing the "victim" card. You want to paint christians as martyrs. You are whining false tears about being "suppressed", but in reality you are trying to shamelessly manipulate public opinion. This is and was a standard tactic of religionists, for centuries.

We will simply leave you in peace. When you get too nasty (like wanting to teach your nonsense in science class), we fight back. Otherwise, it would be the biggest error we could make when we would feed you to the lions. By doing so, we would immediately lose our credibility.

Our tactic is much more perfidious: We are simply teaching the truth. And it works: More and more people are renouncing their faith. And you know that you are on losing ground. Thats the reason why you religionists became extra-fundie in the last years. You are fighting with your back to the wall.

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

"Before you laugh, stop and think ... did the Romans just wake up one day all of a sudden and say 'Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!'"

No, there was an important step that you neglected to mention. The Roman empire had designated state gods. All residents of the empire were expected to support the state by paying homage to the gods of the state. To neglect the gods of the state wasn't merely rude: It was an act of treason against the empire.

From the beginning the Christians refused to worship the pagan gods. They tried to align themselves with the Jews, and thus gain special exception due to antiquity (The Romans respected ancient traditions). The Jews, however, made it clear that the Christians were a new, non-Jewish sect and thus had no affiliation with Jews and no claim to the exception of antiquity.

Whenever things started to go wrong, the Roman leaders began looking around for who might have been offending the gods and causing them to withdraw their support. The answer, quite often, were the Christians. This is why the later Emperors targeted Christians. Their refusal to worship the gods of the state was seen as endangering the Empire.

Now then, who is it today who tries to claim that the USA was founded on the principles of their god? Who is it that superstitiously blames America's problems on certain groups refusal to honor the so-called "god of the state?" The only ones in the US who are feeding anyone to metaphorical lions today are fundamentalist Christians!

old comment by Argle Bargle

2016 - Barack Obama and Osama Bin Laden are surgically grafted together and rule the US (now renamed Amerikastan) with an iron fist.
2017 - The Backstreet Boys win the Nobel Peace prize for their accomplishments in the field of music.
2018 - Crocs are now an accepted part of formal dinnerware.
2019 - Scientists finally discover who put the bop in bop-shoo-bop-shoo-bop. However, fundies ridicule them and claim since nobody knows who put the ram in rama-lama-ding-dong, their discovery is bunk.
2020 - Christ returns and duels the Antichrist in a game of Wii tennis. Since the game is a draw, they delay the Apocalypse for another 2000 years.

Wheee, this is fun!

old comment by breakerslion

OMG! Why didn't anyone tell me it was Backwards Day on Talk Rational! I think we should all go over there and post wacky bullshit.

2001 - Admins on religious fanatic internet forums ban people with opposing points of view, ensuring a one-sided unending rant.

2002 - In the wake of 9/11, government agencies begin to notice hate speech. Perpetrators scream "persecution!" and hide behind "religious freedom".

2007 - Paul Ross Evans is arrested for planting an explosive device at an abortion clinic in Austin Texas. He plea-bargains for a 40-year term in prison. The Army of God sees him as a hero, gives him a home page on their site, publishes his writings, and solicits donations for his aid and comfort.

2009 - Various hate-spewing ministries continue to disavow the violent actions of their members.

2011 - ???

2013 - PROPHET!

old comment by dasypusbellus

@Mister Spak

Now, I know that you were probably exaggerating on purpose but people saying that Christianity caused the fall of the roman empire have always been a pet peeve of mine. Sure, Christianity might have made the roman people a little bit less warlike, and the theological disputes that followed surely were distracting. But the myriad of contributing factors to the fall of the west unrelated to christianity vastly outnumbers those that are related, not to mention the fact that christianity worked as a unifying force compared to the earlier loosely defined polytheistic beliefs. In any case, the half of the roman empire that lasted a 1000 years longer than the west sure survived the transition to christianity nicely.

old comment by Papabear

"THE SLIPPERY SLOPE

[Fictional but somewhat plausible scenario]
2011 - Admins on internet forums are lenient on people who make posts about killing people in cold blood "

Some maybe.

"2012 - Various government agencies, being underfunded anyway, stop prosecuting internet crimes"

Possible.

"2013 - Anti-Christian hate groups start killing Christians and largely get away with it"

There is it is. Watch in slomo and you can see the exact moment the train leaves the rails.

"2014 - A new law is enacted which labels Christians as 'subversive to society'"

There, did you spot it? It's Christian persectution syndrome raising its ugly, empty head from the train wreck.

"2015 - Football stadiums accross the nation add a new event to generate more revenue - Lions Eating Christians"

Apparently this Christian persectution monster is not only empty-headed, but insane. Watch as it lashes about spewing ridiculous scenarios of organized mass murders of Christians in the US.

"Before you laugh, stop and think ... did the Romans just wake up one day all of a sudden and say 'Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!'"

Ha! Now it is encouraging us to think, an action it is apparently unable to do itself.

"No. There were most certainly steps leading up to it.

Where do you want society to be in 20 years?"

Firmly rooted in fact and reason, unfettered by relgion and weak-minded leaders.

old comment by D Laurier

"Before you laugh, stop and think ... did the Romans just wake up one day all of a sudden and say "Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!""

I laughed.
InRome they had some rather ammusing punishments for crimes.
Arson was punished by being publicly fed to wild animals in the arena.
In 64 AD, a group of christian fanatics set a series of fires across the city in the hope that their god would burn the world away.
This act of arson killed thousands of people.
Emperor Nero ordered the guilty punished according to ancient law.
Cristians commited arson, and were punished as arsonists.
Their being christian may have motivated them to commit the crime, but it had no bearing on the punishment.

old comment by Reverend Jeremiah

2011 - Admins on internet forums are lenient on people who make posts about killing people in cold blood
They were doing that 10 years ago, especially on right wing and theocratic sites.
2012 - Various government agencies, being underfunded anyway, stop prosecuting internet crimes
If the govt becomes underfunded, it will be from the legislations of the right wing parties that you more than likely support, and it will not go against Christianity, but will be prosecuting hate crimes against Christians
2013 - Anti-Christian hate groups start killing Christians and largely get away with it
The day ANYTHING anti-mainstream christianity gets legislated in America is the day pigs will fly...and by hate groups it will more than likely be a group of southern baptists ganging up on some smaller Christian group, like Christian science followers or the usual persecution against the Jehovahs Witnesses.
2014 - A new law is enacted which labels Christians as "subversive to society"
Again, main stream Christians will be the ones writing these laws if it ever happens, and therefore the only Christians more than likely allowed to be accepted would be southern baptists, Catholics, and maybe the pentacostals. All others do not hold the numbers to really effect legislation and will be pushed to the margins and not considered "true" christians by the mainstreamers.
2015 - Football stadiums accross the nation add a new event to generate more revenue - Lions Eating Christians
I have listened to quite a few Christians on Yahoo wax poetic about the times christians were allowed to savage who they wanted to for not being fundy enough. Many like the idea of rounding up the Muslims in America, putting them on a big boat, float them out to the middle of the ocean, and then nuking it. Some like the idea of death sports pitty American muslim vs American muslim... disgusting

old comment by Xotan

Sign outside the Colosseum in Rome

Christianis 0

Leonibus XXX

In fact, there is not a shred of evidence that any Christian was martyred in that perticular amphitheatre.

As to Christians being the cause of the fall of Rome in the West. Not so. Constantine, who reunited the whole empire, east and west under one ruler, chose to use Christian bishops as his local representatives because the organisation of the church was superb. It was ideal for the political structures and needs of the later empire. It is evident that this shrewd move on Constantine's part gained an extra 160 years of life for Rome. However, the odds were still stacking high against it. The economy was top-heavy with the military requirement to protect the frontiers. The tax base and other resources could not cover the military cost. (Does that sound like somethere today - another fallen empire?) A particularly cold winter froze the Rhine and the Germanic tribes were simply able to walk across in vast numbers. Even then, a plan of resettlement could have saved the day, but there were too many snooty types in the imperial court who considered the newcomers as scum and antagonised them. Even so, Rome lasted longer than the fall of 475. Where I live it was still alive as late as the 700s because Romanitas had been embraced by the "barbarians" who settled here. And a form of neo-Latin is spoken...

But by the fall of Rome, animals were no longer available. The empire's transport infrastructure wasn't so good, and many species hade been wiped out - the European lion, North African lion, Aurochs, etc, etc. But the gladiatorial combats still had continued until 404 CE long after the church had been recruited by the empire.

So I suppose, let's not give indigestion to the relatively few great cats that remain. They deserve better than that.

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

@ Bartholomew Roberts

Relax, oh pirate wanna-be, the posters here are being absurd for the sake of giggles. dave Hawkins is being absurd too, but his purpose is to increase the general sense of paranoia among his "brethren." In doing so, he is feeding their irrational persecution complexes and driving them farther from a clear sense of reality. If anyone is doing real harm, it is Hawkins.

Would the world be better if we followed the teachings of Jesus Christ? Quite possibly, but so what? One would think that Christians would be showing us the way by practicing humility, patience and living simple lives, the way their savior did.

However, Christian extremists seem to go out of their way to live lives of arrogance, intolerance and greed. They even have a sub genre of religious literature to justify their excesses. It is called, "apologetics." As for the moderate Christians, we hardly ever hear of them trying to correct their brethren. Perhaps they'd rather stand at the widow looking for signs of their Jesus' return (which is going to happen...any...day...now).

old comment by Arts_Myth

@Bartholomew Roberts (#1253590):
Arts_Myth, you need to read the Bible

Last I checked, listening involves ears, while reading involves eyes.

If Jesus were around today, to talk about today's issues, and what various bits in the Bible actually mean, and which parts can be ignored, and which parts are fact and which are allegory, that would be great. But there are just a whole lot of people claiming to speak for him, and good luck trying to get two of them to agree about everything.

Yeah, reading a 2000 year book to learn how to live today is like reading a 1980's book on computers to figure out how to fix the PC you bought new last year. Some of the basics might still work, but the vast majority of the book no longer has any bearing, although there is some amusement in reading about all the archaic systems and marvelling at how it all managed to work at all.

(Same goes for the computer book!)

old comment by

@Bartholomew Roberts
and just like ~~Pee Wee Herman~~ most people in the world, I bet you often masturbate to pornography.

Fixed that for ya.

that's wrong.

The story of Onan was an indictment against disobedience, not masturbation.

One can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, as they say.

Well, you actually could, but it's not very nice. Or easy.

all I can do is ask the Lord that He will guide you to His wisdom and you will be freed from the shackles of sin.

No, that's not all you could do. I mean, sure, you can do that; pray all you like, even. But! You could also answer the fsking questions. Failing that, admit you don't know what you're talking about, and STFU troll.

@TWoozl

I prefer _deity myself.

old comment by Big Chicken Dinner

In New York City, they made it against the law to have any mention of Jesus while on the grounds of the World Trade Center. The city council has voted the World Trade Center as sacred moslem ground and they are building a moqsue as we speak. This is a far cry from the Christian Nation we were for most of our proud history - which was when we were the most prosperus and civil minded.

Now we are turning from God and Christians go to jail all the time for simply trying to help their neighbors and stop the satanic moslem horde.

So yea, I could see large scale persecution in the near future, to include old style arena death games. It's all part of the prophecy anyway.

old comment by rikalous

@Bartholomew Roberts: The US was not founded as a Christian nation. It was founded as a nontheist nation, as can be seen from the establishment cause in the Bill of Rights. Ben Franklin, James Madison, John Adams, Thomas Paine, and Thomas Jefferson were all Deists, not Christians. In fact, Jefferson wrote: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. " He's also the originator of the term "separation of church and state." In addition, Barack Obama is a Christian, not a Muslim. If he were a Muslim, Christians would still not be persecuted. For one thing, being of one faith does not automatically make you hate and want to destroy all other faiths. For another, Christianity is still the majority religion in America, and not only all Christians, but all decent people, would fight against any measures the President took to persecute Christians. This means that such measures would be political suicide at the very least.

old comment by

@Big Chicken Dinner #1254431
In New York City, they made it against the law to have any mention of Jesus while on the grounds of the World Trade Center. The city council has voted the World Trade Center as sacred moslem ground and they are building a moqsue as we speak.

[citation needed]

This is a far cry from the Christian Nation we were for most of our proud history -

Treaty of Tripoly, bitch!

which was when we were the most prosperus and civil minded.

ROFL

Now we are turning from God and Christians go to jail all the time for simply trying to help their neighbors and stop the satanic moslem horde.

If by "trying to help", you mean "harrassing and/or unintentionally (hah!) inciting violence against", I agree. On the first part, anyway. The satanic moslem horde, however, doesn't exist.

So yea, I could see large scale persecution in the near future, to include old style arena death games. It's all part of the prophecy anyway.

Of course there's going to be large scale persecution in the near future. It's not like it's going to go away overnight. Oh, wait, you were talking about persecuting christians. ROFL

And [mental institution needed] on the "prophecy" bit.

old comment by

@Bartholomew Roberts
nobody cares about Lovecraft. He didn't accept Jesus and now he is is Hades. Is that what you want to happen to you?

Now that you mention it, what about Hades? Hades is not only the ancient greek word for hell, it is also the name of the ancient greek god of death. So, tell me again what a True Christian*tm is doing using that word?

You think the wikipedia shit is cute?

Yes, I do think "the wikipedia shit" is cute.

You athiests sure are prideful with your stupid jokes and your hating Jesus Christ.

Admittedly, some atheist are very antagonistic about their lack of belief. Some are not. Similarly, some christians are very antagonistic about their belief (you yourself are an example of this). Some are not. Same goes for any group of people in the world.

And I don't hate Jesus, never have. I greatly admire what he preached. It's just a shame that so many christians ignore Jesus for Paul.

haha Anon-e-moose, maybe if you went out to meet ladies you wouldn't have to spend time masturbating to retarded anime shit while you were hating God

I haven't seen more than 30 seconds of that particular show, and so will not comment on it, but to call all anime "retarded" is ignorant. It's equivalent to calling all books (all books, not just the fictional ones) retarded. For example, the anime "Grave of the Fireflies" is anything but retarded. (Examples of non-retarded books is left as an exercise to the reader)

old comment by Arts_Myth

Bartholomew Roberts (#1253912):
and just like Pee Wee Herman, I bet you often masturbate to pornography.

that's wrong.

Yes, much better to masturbate to the Bible, like you do, particularly the parts about the rapture. Well, the parts you fantasize about being about the rapture. And you imagine yourself being summoned up to heaven, crying out, "Oh, God, I'm coming!"

(BTW, I didn't know that Pee Wee bets that I often masturbate to pornography!)

@Bartholomew Roberts (#1254642):
You athiests sure are prideful with your stupid jokes and your hating Jesus Christ.

@Bartholomew Roberts (#1254645):
nobody cares about Lovecraft. He didn't accept Jesus and now he is is Hades.

Yes, we are the prideful ones. Not at all prideful to claim to know the mind of God, knowing where he has sent particular souls.

old comment by Myra

@Whoever said that Hades is the Ancient Greek word for Hell and the Ancient Greek God of Death.

Not that I disagree with your overall point, I'd just like to clarify a few things.

First of all, Hades is the Ancient Greek God of the Underworld. Not of Death. Underworld. That means he presides over the Ancient Greek equivilent to both Heaven and Hell. The Underworld is another way of saying "the plane of existence in which the afterlife exists".

As for the Ancient Greek equivilent to Hell, that was Tartarus. In Tatarus, it's always burning flame and lots of torture.

The Ancient Greek equivilent to Heaven was the Elysium Fields. Lovely place actually. In the Elysium Fields, it's always afternoon in the spring time, 24/7/365.

As for the Ancient Greek God of Death, his name was Thanatos.

Hades was the brother of Zeus, son of the Titans who in turn were the children of Chronos. Thanatos was the son of Nyx, Goddess of Night. Nyx in turn was the sister of Chronos. So essentially, this means that Thanatos, God of Death was the cousin of the parents of Hades and Zeus.

Lastly, Hades himself was neither good nor evil. He was actually quite possibly the most neutral party in the Ancient Greek pantheon. This makes Hades incredibly fair and even handed. Far more so than the Christian god. However, he was probably more good than evil. Persephone actually fell in love with him, and it wasn't Stockholm Syndrome.

I hope this clarifies things.

@Anon-e-moose

Sorry, I also agree with your overall sentiment. Just a point of clarification here: at Jonestown, no one drank poisoned Kool-Aid, it was actually poisoned Flavor Aid.

@Everybody

I don't think the one who takes his name from the dreaded pirate Black Bart Roberts is anything short of a troll who isn't actually taking anything he says seriously. It's all to rile people up so he can have a good laugh.

old comment by rikalous

@GodIsReal: "as if everyone who believes in God shares the medieval worldview of his straw-man caricature."

This is pretty rich from someone who was talking about how "atheism shows itself to be the hateful ideology of nihilist zealots who care more about "proving points" than spiritual fulfillment and happiness." Furthermore, you're saying that the atheists responding to you should get off the computer and get some social interaction in...while you're on the computer.

For your information, atheism isn't necessarily nihilist, though I imagine some people are both. It's like the song "Imagine": "Imagine all the people, living for today." Just because there's nothing after this life doesn't mean that this life and the love and happiness we find in it are meaningless. Atheism doesn't have to be hateful and angry, it's just that the quiet, peaceful types aren't as vocal about it, because, well, they're quiet and peaceful. The same goes for theism.

I personally have no problem with people believing or disbelieving whatever brings them comfort, and I don't think either side needs to demonize each other or feed each other (to) wood chippers. Chill out, people.

old comment by Christian Liberal

"Seems like some of you atheists put a lot of effort into your posts here... embedding images and cleverly formatting them, for example. I wonder what you could accomplish if you channeled that creative energy into positive, meaningful pursuits? That is, instead of wasting the "one life you have" on rage-filled Internet posts, futilely trying to stave off the noose for another night?"
Assuming you're not a troll:
Maybe you should just shut up and let people live their lives the way they please. Also, enlighten me on how their posts are "rage-filled". And really, do you spend 100% of your time putting energy into "meaningful pursuits"? I didn't think so.

old comment by Mister Person

Well, it's 2011.

I can go over to Foxnews.com, Free Conservatives, Free Republic, or Stormfront and leave a pile of sub-literate brain-droppings on their forums that just barely skirts "death-threat" territory, promising pain and death for liberals, progressives, illegals, socialists, atheists, Muslims or pro-choicers and their supporters, and most of the time, not only will the mods turn a blind eye to it, a fair majority of my fellow posters will be agreeable or at least quietly supportive.

On the other hand, when I do the exact same thing at, say, the Daily Kos, and just swap out the words "Conservative" for "liberal," "Christian" for "Muslim," and "Pro-Lifer" for "Pro-Choicer," the other posters are mostly repulsed, and the mods are apt to issue a permaban.

At a guess, I don't think you have a damned thing to worry about.

old comment by Anon2

Where do you want society to be in 20 years?

"dave Hawkins", we don't feed Christians to lions. Modern atheists don't do that, because it is deeply immoral to kill somebody because of his beliefs. We don't outlaw religion. We don't prosecute you. We don't want to do so, and we don't need to do so.

We use a much more effective approach. We simply walk away. Irreligion is growing in enormous rates especially among the young. The average age of worshippers of the Anglican church for example is now 61 years. In 20 years, religion in many european countries might by a thing of the past simply because of biological reasons, as the last religious people just die a peaceful death because of old age:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2014152/Church-England-extinct-20-years-leaders-tell-General-Synod.html

The result can already be seen in Europes attendance of religious services and ceremonies. People simply get more and disinterested in those anachronistic, nonsensical and pointless rituals here. And our numbers are growing, steadily.

http://www.economist.com/node/16767758?story_id=16767758

Even the USA is no exemption from this persistent trend. Up to 30% of young americans at age around 20+ now say they have no religious affiliation, four times higher than in any previous generation:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/17/opinion/la-oe-1017-putnam-religion-20101017

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"THE SLIPPERY SLOPE

[Fictional but somewhat plausible scenario]
2011 - Admins on internet forums are lenient on people who make posts about killing people in cold blood
2012 - Various government agencies, being underfunded anyway, stop prosecuting internet crimes
2013 - Anti-Christian hate groups start killing Christians and largely get away with it
2014 - A new law is enacted which labels Christians as "subversive to society"
2015 - Football stadiums accross the nation add a new event to generate more revenue - Lions Eating Christians

Before you laugh, stop and think ... did the Romans just wake up one day all of a sudden and say "Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!"

And there's me thinking that you fundies could never be True Christians if you weren't suffering in exactly the same way as your so-called 'Saviour'; all part of your 'Persecution Complex/Fetish'?

So what the fuck are you complaining about, davey-boy? If anything, the very lack of you being fed to lions today - and how governments are actually going out of their way to not allow this to happen, as part of what is known as the Worldwide Civilisation Through Democracy and Rule of Law Conspiracy - is what you should be complaining about!

A nomination for the 'You Wish!' award...?!

2011 - Anders Breivik. Need I say more?
2012 - London Olympics.
2013 - dave Hawkins bleats pathetically that he's being 'Persecuted'
2014 - Sochi Winter Olympics.
2015 - dave Hawkins bleats pathetically that he's being 'Persecuted'
2016 - ?????
2017 - dave Hawkins bleats pathetically that he's being 'Persecuted' - but isn't.

Repeat ad infinitum, ad nauseam...

...or else davey-boy, you do what this fundie twat in Kiev did:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5049082.stm

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=12160&Page=1

In Soviet Russia, Christians feed themselves to lions. >:3 X3

Moral: Not being allowed to persecute others (LGBT people, women wanting abortions, Atheists etc) =/= 'Persecution'.

@Vince

I can highly recommend the film "Red State". Especially near the end.

@french student

"Actually the whole "christian to the lions" thing had two causes.

One : christians were going left and right telling romans that their gods did not exist. Romans were known for their tolerance of foreign gods (basically stating that all gods existed if someone believed, but that the roman gods were the strongest, as evidenced by the conquests done by the roman empire. Christians were the first to antagonise everyone by saynig "no, the gods you believe in don't exist"."

No 'Christians fed to lions in football stadiums' required; FSTDT exists. Where we tear apart their arguments for the justifications for the existence of their unjustifiable right-wing Fundamentalist 'beliefs' and way of thinking. Troll/Poe/Nuts4Life, I'm looking at you.

...besides, it'd be a waste of a good football ground, when The Beautiful Game (as referred to by the Great God Pele) could be played on such; think of the poor groundskeepers as well. I mean, blood & fundie guts are a bitch to remove from turf!

"second : christians refused to pay taxes."

No 'feeding Christians to lions' required II. We just put them in jail, and 'feed' them to Bubba. Just ask Kent 'Oh, Mark 12:17 doesn't apply to me!' Hovind. >:D

old comment by

Hmm...OK, in 20 years I'd love it if society:

*Had fewer religious extremists
*Finally stopped blaming victims of rape
*Had no more of this "OMG HOMOS ARE MARRYING IT'S TEH END OF THE WURLD!!" nonsense
*Did not bat an eye at the existence of transsexuals and asexuals.
*US-specific, not about elsewhere in the world - How about some more emphasis on the intellectual instead of blindly praising athletes left and right?
*Chucked abstinence-only sex ed into the trash where it belongs
*Stopped insisting, subtly and otherwise, that you are only a fulfilled person if you settle down and have kids
*Improved education standards
*No longer insisted on a degree for every frickin' job (or so it seems)
*Started making hoverboards and those Smartcars are improved upon so they get better safety ratings. (I'd like one, but am very afraid of such a little thing being easily crushed or otherwise damaged)

Note that "throwing Christians to the lions" is not on the list.

ETA: Forgot to fill in the name space - Elia

old comment by CatOnKeyboard321

I stopped. I though. It made even less sense. So I laughed.
Step 1 is fine.
Step 2 is fine.
Step 3... er? Exactly who are these anti-Christian groups so bent on murder? I and the other commenters might enjoy ridiculing the more deluded members of your community, but it stops at that. I have never felt a desire to kill any of you.
Step 4... why would anyone do that? Christians are being murdered, therefore they should be persecuted... excuse me for saying so, but that sounds more like your schtick than ours - look at quotes 82877 and 80386.
And then Step 5. Well, first of all, the gladiatorial games were largely not for entertainment, but to remind people of what Romans were supposed to be. Second, the whole feed-them-to-lions was reserved almost exclusively for criminals. All that stuff you hear about gladiators being made to grapple bare-handed with alligators is either utter crock or something very rare which has been blown out of proportion.

So. Yeah. I'm gonna keep right on laughing at you, thanks.

old comment by Swede

Not so plausible, actually. Christianity is the largest religion on Earth, it's much more plausible that the hate group that starts killing people is a Christian group, killing atheists or Muslims or Jews. (Wait, didn't a very large Christian hate-group kill a lot of Jews some 70 years ago, AND got away with it for years?)

Sorry, Lions are an endangered species, we will not be feeding them disease- and pesticide-filled humans. We have an excess of wild boars in Sweden though; they'll eat anything.

I want society to be an open and loving environment, where everyone is free to be themselves. I hope we have clean energy, clean water and an abundance of clean food for everyone, and that poverty is eradicated.

old comment by Swede

Fictional, yes. Plausible, not so much.

2011 - Threaten to kill people on the Net, nothing happens. Be somewhat critical of Religion on the Net, you may be executed or murdered.
2012 - New laws are made to handle Internet crimes.
2013 - Anti-Muslim hate groups kill Muslims and largely get away with it, too.
2014 - More and more countries implement gender-neutral marriage laws; fundies scream that "the family is dead". Subversive, yes.
2015 - Wars are waged in the Middle East to make billionaires in the US even richer.

The Nazis didn't just wake up one day all of a sudden and gassed Jews, either.

It's now 2016, and nothing of what you predicted has happened yet...

old comment by SJWs Are Idiots

And yet we're now in a world where small bakeries run by Christians are shut down for refusing to bake a cake for gay weddings. They still serve gays by the way, they just don't want to participate in a gay wedding.

"Hey, let's start feeding Christians to lions!"

Never gonna happen any time soon, but it's also not true to say that the government hasn't fucked over Christians for being Christian and violated their rights.

If businesses are not free to have any ideological objections, then I take it you're also in favor of:

- forcing YouTube by law to monetize and feature any right-wing content even if they disagree with it
- forcing Justin Bieber to perform at Trump rallies if requested
- forcing companies to not fire racists
- forcing freelance web designers to design sites for nazis, porn and other material that may be controversial (not saying porn is bad, but there are valid reasons why a web designer would want to avoid working on the creation of a porn site)

These are just a few examples. Either we all get to refuse business for ideological purposes or none of us do. You can't have it pick and choose, so what's it gonna be?

old comment by creativerealms

"And yet we're now in a world where small bakeries run by Christians are shut down for refusing to bake a cake for gay weddings. They still serve gays by the way, they just don't want to participate in a gay wedding."

Can you give examples? The one I can think of that was sued and shut down was not done so because it refused to bake a cake for a lesbian couple. What they did was post the personal information of the couple on social media, access and phone number, which lead to people harassing the couple and sending death threats. That is why they were sued and shut down.

Oh and there was at least one case where a baker refused to make a perfectly normal birthday cake because he checked the customers social media and found out she was gay.

You are being an SJW right now. You are being a warrior for the social justices of Christians.

Christian companies are not being shut down for refusing to hire or serve gays. The cases where that seems to happen they actually violate far worse laws and you just focus on what you want to focus on like a true SJW.

old comment by SJWs Are Idiots

@creativerealms

http://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminated-against-gay-couple/

"David Mullins and Charlie Craig visited Masterpiece Cakeshop last year, with Craig’s mother, to order a cake for their upcoming wedding reception. Mullins and Craig planned to marry in Massachusetts and then celebrate with family and friends back home in Colorado. Masterpiece owner Jack Phillips informed them that because of his religious beliefs the store’s policy was to deny service to customers who wished to order baked goods to celebrate a same-sex couple’s wedding."

Notice that they weren't refused for being gay, they were refused for wanting to use the cake to celebrate a gay wedding, subtle difference that apparently is completely lost on SJWs.

They could have of course just gone to another bakery, but oh well, I guess they prefer to get free money for doing nothing at all through frivolous lawsuits.

"You are being an SJW right now. You are being a warrior for the social justices of Christians."

I don't care about social justice at all. I care about plain old justice period.

These aren't mean words on Twitter, this is the government shutting down a business because the owners followed their beliefs.

But as I said, I'm more than wiling to agree to disagree if you concede that:

1. YT should be forced to accept and monetize almost any content (i.e. regardless of the views expressed in the video)
2. Democrat singers should be forced to perform at Trump rallies if requested otherwise they're "anti-conservative bigots"
3. Companies should be forced to retain employees with openly racist views as long as they do a good job and don't cause drama at work
4. Freelance web desginers should be forced to work on porn sites, Nazi sites, virtually anything besides sites that would in fact be illegal to make

And that's just the start of it.

Either we ALL get to follow our conscience when we choose who to do business with or none of us do. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, you can't pick and choose.

old comment by

@Idiot is a SJW for Homophobes

Who invites the baker of the cake to their wedding? And since when is it compulsory for bakers to attend weddings? Once someone has bought an ephemeral product such as a cake, that's it: the baker doesn't care what happens to it, nor do they require constant updates as to what's happening to that cake: as long as it's bought and paid for.

Or is all this furore purely to generate attention: just as you're doing by your thinking it's compulsory to be on this site?

Persecution. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And in 2019 none of that came to pass. As though it was nothing more than fear mongering bullshit

dave Hawkins #fundie talkrational.org

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