FSTDT

Andy_USA #fundie starshipmodeler.net

What do I say here? So much has gone on in the last few days. First I guess is that my heart goes out to the families to those who have passed then encouragement to those who watch over those that cling to life.

Who do we blame for this act of terror; ISIS, the gun, the shooter, maybe all of the above a little? I also blame the LGBT community in general. We have had their agenda forced upon us so much here lately they may have painted targets of hate upon their backs.

Madoc #fundie starshipmodeler.net

And this why you should never rely on Wikipedia for anything politically related. The site is VERY well known for having an exceptionally gross bias against the right, against conservatives, against Republicans, and against anyone or anything that dares challenge the hive mind / group think of the Left and liberal orthodoxy.

The "Southern Strategy" was actually an attempt by the GOP to break the stranglehold the Democrats had on politics in the South. That hold was so strong the rest of the Democratic Party had to bend to it and thus progress on Civil Rights was always held back by the Democrats - with Southern Democrats at the lead in that.

The GOP attempted to make inroads in the South by appealing to moderates among Southern urban voters. Those "disaffected whites" were the absolute LAST people who would EVER be caught dead voting for Republicans. Look up the phrase "yellow dog Democrat" as an example of that mentality.

The GOP didn't get too far in the South in the 60s with that strategy. The South remained SOLIDLY a Democratic Party stronghold.

If the article's premise were factual you'd have seen the South change over to Republican by the late 60s or early 70s as the Democratic Party pulled a near 180 and suddenly became the pro-civil rights thing that the GOP had always been.

Instead, the South remained Democratic and Southern voters kept electing racist Democrats to office.

It was only in the 80s that things began to change as those Southern Democratic Party bigots began getting too old to hold to power. AND because or immigration patterns where millions of Northerners began moving in to the South in search of better jobs and lower taxes.

As that happened, only then did the voting patterns change and the GOP's message of smaller government / lower taxes take root in the South.

Arguing otherwise runs contrary to the actual facts and is also a staple of current Democratic Party talking points as they attempt to rewrite history and make the Republican Party a thing of racism. This, when it has consistently been the Democratic Party which was the racist of the two.

sapguy #fundie starshipmodeler.net

I'm guessing that's not intended to be sarcasm. But I've got news for you, EVERY government is UNTRUSTWORTHY. One need simply exam the greatest number of deaths are caused not by lone nuts with rifles but by organized government activity. We could go on and on listing the atrocities that Governments (even well meaning ones) have committed.

In the US, our govt. is more tyrannical than at any given point in its past. It can spy on us without cause. It can steal from us without cause. It can arrest us without charge. ALL activities that our forefathers established a government with restrictions on in order to prevent. Sure you may say, if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear. I'm sure that's what was said when the first Nuremburg laws were passed...The government is slowly but surely become less and less answerable to the people that hold the power in this nation, the electorate.

I'm a conservative. I'm a veteran. I happen to think that the men that wrote the Constitution were far smarter than any we have in govt. today. I swore an oath to protect and defend that Constitution. I own a couple of rifles (which I've never fired other than to zero). If the day comes, where there is an attempt to seize weapons from the civilian populace, it will be the day that I get those rifles out and plan to start shooting politicians. It's my fervent hope that day never passes. but if it does my friend you can be sure that it will be the start of a 2nd civil war.

We can go on and on about Gun Control/Seizure in the US, but it will not happen and if by chance, we get to the point that semi-automatic rifles are outlawed... well you can expect the streets to run red with blood. I don't think that's being overly dramatic either. The people that are passionate about gun rights, will not go peaceably into the night.

Aptivaboy #fundie starshipmodeler.net

For the record, I have. let's just say the discussion got quite interesting.

Another friend is the headmistress of a private religious school in San Diego. She used to take her students to a large mosque there to discuss comparative religions. Well, one of her students flat out asked the imam if Islam taught that it was alright to kill him because he was Roman Catholic. The imam hemmed and hawed and then finally admitted that yes, the Koran stated that he could kill him, that it was permitted and even encouraged under the Koran. My friend no longer takes her students there. Period.

That wasn't an interpretation. He admitted that yes, the Koran flat out said that. Reading the Koran betrays a lot of these things: enslaving your enemy, taking his women and raping them (it does say that), etc. Read it. You'll see. These aren't interpretations. They are in black and white.

I also have to object to the moral relativism. Whether that was your intent or not, that's how I interpreted it. The New Testament doesn't encourage murder. Heck, Jesus looks like a '60s flower child compared to Mohammed. Neither do the teachings of Buddha. I could keep going. Neither are conquering religions. Islam is.

Aptivaboy #fundie starshipmodeler.net

Again, New Testament. I'll say it again, New Testament. Where did Jesus personally order the death and destruction of entire cities? Where did he personally command his followers to brutally kill those who disagreed with him?

New Testament.

You keep bringing up Old Testament fire and brimstone examples. However, the questions of whether Jesus was actually the Old Testament God, some aspect of him, or something else has vexed early Christian historians for along time. Those at the Council of Nicea couldn't quite agree. Just look up the "adoptionists" to see what I mean, and to get a whole new perspective on the, "Why have you forsaken me?" question.

On the other hand, Mohammad did just that, multiple times over. That's what makes islamic extremism so dangerous, and engenders attacks like those in Paris. Their "good book" says its okay to commit such acts. Heck, Mohammad committed such acts, so to say they're not right would be to go against the literal physical teachings and actions of Mohammad.

Madoc #fundie starshipmodeler.net

Folks,

One of the best explanations of the differences in Christianity's handling of Old Testament vs. New Testament was that Jesus marks the difference. It was his arrival and his "dying for your sins" which changed things. It was that assumption of those sins that allowed the New Testament to build on the good things of the Old Testament while setting aside the excesses of the Old.

You also would be very hard pressed to find any denomination of Christians which still practice only the Old Testament ways. Very hard pressed.

Plus, Western Civilization has figured out how to handle religion in the midst of a modern and otherwise secular society. It took a while for it to do so but we've done much better hewing to that "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" principle. It also helps - a lot - that the main religion of Western Civilization, Christianity, is inherently a hierarchical thing. Thus, there is a central point from which reforms can be applied and adhered to.

Over the centuries this has caused schisms in the faith but, even there, the various Christian sects are also hierarchical. This also has helped to limit the "downsides" of Christianity.

There is not any such thing with Islam. Islam is inherently a non-hierarchical religion. Oh, it has "elders" and experts on interpreting Islamic doctrine and dogma but their authority is purely a voluntary thing. That is, any Muslim is free to adhere or ignore the fatwahs of any particular Islamic cleric.

That means that reform is an exceptionally difficult thing to apply in Islam.

Also, the Islamic world has never gone through its version of Christianity's "Wars of Reformation" which drove home the need for separation of church and state. Thus the secular and sectarian are still very much mixed in the Islamic world as opposed to officially, legally, and culturally separate as they are in the Christian world.

So, when you get some charismatic political leader in the Islamic world he's also able to wield the absolutism that comes with religion. We've learned in the West how nasty that can spin out of control. The Muslim world is continually proving that point.

Anyway, this is why it's an exercise in futility - at the least - to try picking out the nasty things in the Old Testament and attempting to use them to shut down criticisms of Islam. The two are not equal. The Old Testament is not in practice in Christianity - only the New Testament is. In the Islamic world, everything in the Koran is viewed as current and applicable.

As to how nice and un-radical are the Muslims some folks keep referring to - note their locations. The ones who are that way are almost all in the West. And they're here for a reason. Namely, their moderation would get them dead were they still back in the Middle East. And the longer they stay amongst the secular West the more moderate they get. With exceptions, sadly.

So pointing out how nice and un-radical those Western Muslims are is pretty much irrelevant when compared to how things are in the Middle East.

I also gotta say that too many people seem hell bent on ignoring the threat of Islamist jihadis. And they keep doing so on an appallingly regular basis.

Some new horrible Islamist attack is perpetrated by some new band of jihadis and their first reaction is to shrill their sorrow and weep for the slaughtered. This usually takes the form of quickly creating a heart rendering #Hastag to denote their feelings and then also generating some tear inducing image to overlay on their Facebook profile picture.

Within days - in some cases, hours - they'll then crank out the same tired old rationalizations to enable them to run away from actually dealing with the issue.

The latest terror attack by Islamist jihadist fanatics thus somehow becomes OUR fault. The attackers thus somehow become VICTIMS themselves. And we should refrain from using violence in our response as that will only create more terrorists in the future. Oh, and the self-professed Islamist jihadis who perpetrated the attack are not, in fact, Islamists at all.

It's like they're all reading from the same script or something.

This then allows them to blame the West and demand no real long term solution be meted out. And they then merrily go back to their normal lives happy in the knowledge that they are oh-so-morally superior for having such an "enlightened" world view.

Until the next horror rendered out by the next bunch of radical Islamist jihadis.

mrstumpy #fundie starshipmodeler.net

A man is walking along the river side in Appalachia when he stumbles across an old, oddly shaped oil lamp. He picks it up and sees that it was once new and shiny, so he rubs it with his hand and suddenly a genie appears. Being in Appalachia, he is dressed in bib overalls and has a scruffy John Deere cap on his head.

"I will give you three wishes," says the genie. He expects the "bumpkin" from the hills to come up with mundane and easy to accomplish orders.

The Appalachian thinks for a few moments and requests that all Islamics be returned to the Middle East immediately. The genie blinks in confusion, but obeys. Within a few minutes he has rounded up all the Islamics world wide and returned them to their various homelands.

"Now I want a 100 foot high, thirty foot thick wall built around the entire region," orders the Appalachian. The genie is shocked, but must do as he is told. And soon such a wall is magically constructed around the entire region. This effort pretty much wears the genie out and he is visibly tired, so the "hillbilly" allows him some time to rest.

"What is your final wish?" asks the genie warily, "You have put all believers of Islam back in their original countries and surrounded the region with a 100 foot high wall."

Smiling slyly, the Appalachia man replies, "Fill it with water."

Yeah, this is just a retelling of an old joke, and the Appalachian guy now has to slant drill under the whole mess to get the oil out.

Stumpy in Ahia back in my day...

Aptivaboy #fundie starshipmodeler.net

Jesus says to turn the other cheek and love them. He also says to dislike the sin, but to love the sinner. Indeed, I can't find any passage in the New Testament where Jesus is vengeful or angry, except when dealing with the moneychangers in the temple. Disappointed, yes, as in his disappointment with "Doubting" Thomas (who may actually have been his twin brother, Didymus Thomas) and with Peter, at times, but no actual rage.

However, the Koran does say to kill the sinner. Period.

Something I keep seeing here is that people try to say, "Well, Christianity is evil, too." No, not really. There is what the holy book says, and how it is interpreted. No one can deny the Christianity has been applied and misinterpreted poorly, at times. No one. However, that's what it was, a misinterpretation. Again, I can find no place in the New Testament where Jesus commands his followers to kill. Far from it. He teachers tolerance and accommodation ("Render unto Caesar...").

In contrast, the Koran does no such thing. It is chock full of violence, threats, and examples of killing, enslaving, etc. It isn't a matter of interpretation - its there in black and white.

This website does a pretty good job of breaking down and explaining the verses containing violence in the Koran, especially those against infidels: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm . It also attempts to read these verses in context, pointing out where things aren't quite so open to interpretation, but instead are commands to kill.

Check it out with an open mind.

mrstumpy #conspiracy starshipmodeler.net

We're stepping into political territory here, but I think we should have kept the border with Mexico closed when President Eisenhower did it in the fifties!
If everyone came in legally, we wouldn't have many of the problems we have today.

America has become the "free lunch" to most third world countries, certain large groups of deadbeats, and politicians. The deadbeats and politicians are mostly "home grown" but we don't need to "import" more problems.

You don't think terrorists sneak across the border? You must not have seen the CBS "60 Minutes" episode some years ago where they showed the Islamic "safe house" in Mexico City where terrorists were prepared to infiltrate America by posing as "immigrants" and connected with "coyotes" who would take them across the border.

I sorry, but we have to agree to disagree on the border thing.

As far as Ebola and the border; if you can supply a nation of 360 million with plenty of drugs, why not Ebola? Probably unlikely it will happen, but there remains the potential that it will, and in large numbers.

Just like West Africa, where are you going go to get help? Scared people don't think rationally. As pointed out many times, most diseases would still be unknown here if not for them being brought in from somewhere else.

There's an old adage : "An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure." But no one seems to remember the wisdom of history, so we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

Stumpy in Ahia

Maritain #fundie starshipmodeler.net

No I am referring to the Hateful and derogatory comments made towards Christianity, it far more then just disagreeing with its precepts. But I do see a day coming when Christians will be persecuted and the ground work is being laid now.

Comments like the "Flying Spaghetti Monster," or its on HL if they put people out of work because of their principles. No those comments are directed with hate towards Christians.

If its anyone's fault that jobs are lost it will be this current administration for violating the First Amendment "...impeding the free exercise of religion,"

I am seeing more persecution towards Catholics/Christians coming out of this current administration under the guise of Healthcare and the HHS Mandate. And I still stand behind what I have said about the people on this forum who support such fascists dictates.

And yes Christians are losing their jobs or will be soon if there is no exemption for them under the new Healthcare Laws, such as Little Sisters of the Poor. Losing jobs is just the beginning as it was 1930's Germany.