[Someone's daughter just returned from Israel and is very critical of its policies toward Palestinians.]
It is depressing to hear that your daughter has begun treading down the path of anti-semitism. And yes, it is anti-semitism. [...] Someone who reaches that conclusion, and focuses nearly exclusively on alleged Israeli wrongdoings is quite obviously not motivated by any sort of logic. That person is either mentally insane or fuelled by outright anti-semitism. I really hope you have a series of serious conversations with your daughter, because the path of anti-semitism is a dangerous one. You should be as outraged at her as if she was contemplating joining the Klan. She is in her young formative years, and prone to outside influence, and it's your duty as a father to counter the hateful anti-semitic influence she has been exposed to.
30 comments
"the path of anti-semitism. And yes, it is anti-semitism."
Malchizedek: "'Anti-semitism' means 'disagreeing with ANY act of the state of Israel!'"
"Someone who reaches that conclusion, and focuses nearly exclusively on alleged Israeli wrongdoings is quite obviously not motivated by any sort of logic. That person is either mentally insane or fuelled by outright anti-semitism."
Or maybe she saw Israeli bulldozers clearing out Palestinian houses so they could build a settlement. That could explain it too.
I oppose the policies of Likud and its conservative authoritarians. Does that make me anti-Semitic? No! I'm Jewish, and I kno Jews are people like the 7 or so billion others worldwide. I just happen to disagree with a state's policy.
Let me put it another way. Do you disagree with Obama? Let's say you do. Is it necessarily because you are a racist? Obviously, birtherism doesn't count because of its explicitly racist origin. But the counterpart with the example of Israel would be the blood libel or International Jewish Conspiracy theory, not legitimate contentions of the government.
Religion coupled with nationalism COUPLED WITH "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" makes a blind, deaf, and dumb follower, but you have to look and listen to see where you are being led. When no dissent is permitted, no course corrections are possible.
Sorry, but those that support Israel without question are the dangerous ones here. You have to ignore the realities of aggression and overkill from the Israeli side, you can't sweep in all under 'Palestinian bombs and attacks'.
Israel is the violator of agreement here.
And you can't bury it in anti-Semitism, especially since Palestinians are Semitic people.
What's funny about this "never doubt Israels righteousness" is a regular practice of many Americans who viciously attack their own government when it leans ever so slightly Liberal, or more Constitutional. It's only UnAmerican to do that when Right-Wing warmongers inhabit the white house
Criticizing Israel's policies is antisemitism, part 231,675,345,767.
Yeah Yeah, and objecting to the policies of Robert Mugabe makes me a racist.
That sort of person uses this same argument. You might want to think about that.
Not agreeing with some of the policies of a state != racism, as the Putin shills are doing by accusing of Russophobia those dissenting with some of the Putin's policies.
Below is real antisemitism:
image
And this is what's wrong with us Jews.
The only thing actual anti-Semites are right about is that there are a lot of Jews who scream "anti-Semitism" in the moment they don't get their way. Anti-Semitism is a term that shouldn't be used this recklessly; it's a serious problem. These assholes are no better than those fundies who scream Communism at anything they don't like.
And yeah, Israel has done a lot of morally questionable things. The world does not run on black vs. white.
No, the daughter is treading down the path of anti-discrimination and anti-apartheid. She is probably not criticizing them for being Jews, but for treating human beings worse than cattle, for the crime of being born Palestinians.
The Klan has more in common with the Israeli treatment of Palestinians, than it has with anti-discrimination, silly.
Being critical of Israel can be anti-Semitic, but mostly it's not. Criticism of the government's treatment of Palestinians as inhuman is not anti-Semitic unless the criticism involves attacking Jews specifically as Jews. As many Israelis and diaspora Jews are fiercely critical of the Israeli government's policies, this sort of criticism is far removed from anti-Semitism but rather in the tradition of Jewish ethics. Lay off your interlocutor's daughter.
@ Indicible
So are the Maltese and the Tigrinya but anti-Semitism is specifically anti-Jewish. The word was invented by an anti-Semite to mean anti-Jewish, has been used in that sense ever since and is defined as such in the dictionary.
Israel is now apparently ALL JEWS. Sometime, between yesterday and today, the Jews apparently became the Borg. No, correct that, a non-inclusive Borg, that sit in their Borg country clubs dismissing any non-Borg life as "anti-Borgites".
That metaphor got away from me. Anyway, the point is, you don't get to control peoples opinions based on their nationality. Supporting Israel does not make one a Jew, and vice-versa.
"It is depressing to hear that your daughter has begun treading down the path of anti-semitism. And yes, it is anti-semitism."
"That person is either mentally insane or fuelled by outright anti-semitism."
And fundies wonder why no one wants anything to do with them or their religion when they keep spewing bullshit about how everyone, up to and including different denominations of the exact same religion, are all "the enemy" and "out to get you for Satan". And/or when they just go for insulting everyone who dares to have a different opinion.
You are a child. You are a spoiled brat of a child who throws a temper tantrum and tries to guilt-trip their parents when they don't give you exactly what you want exactly when you want it or when they try to exert any degree of authority over you. Yeah, I've been there too, but I pulled that shit exactly one time before I grew out of it when I was six years old. Keeping it going for decades and letting it grow to the point where you are somehow able to seriously compare a person saying "hey maybe we shouldn't be calling for death to all palestinians just for existing" with someone joining the Klan is just fucking pathetic.
@Swede
There's a lot of exaggeration in the topic of Israel and Palestine. I wouldn't trust rabid anti-Zionist propagandists any more than I would trust rabid anti-Palestinian propagandists. Of course, I think we can both agree that Likud is shit. I'd even go as far as to say that Yisrael Beiteinu might be some kind of apartheidist party. But comparing Israel to apartheid South Africa, the Ku Klux Klan (I'd say Likud may exude a little Klansman), or Nazi Germany is a facile mental exercise that does not really stand up to scrutiny.
What is with this simplistic "it's one or the other" mentality that people seem to have?
Criticising Israel doesn't mean automatic support for Palestine. One can be critical of both. Aren't you the ones always saying that criticism of Obama doesn't automatically equal racism? Of course it doesn't. Sure, some criticisms can stem from racism. That's true in both the cases above. But crying racism is just an attempt to shut down criticism At times.
Let's put it in context of South Africa. Just because I'm critical (very much so) of the ANC, doesn't mean I'm racist nor that I would have supported the Nationalist Party during Apartheid (or even the institution.) I would have ended up in jail back then, because I'm gay, and because Apartheid was steeped in theocratic ideologies. I would have fought against it. And I don't think anyone now can doubt just how bad Apartheid was, given many revelations by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. But that doesn't mean now suddenly the ANC is immune to criticism. And they've tried numerous times to shut down that criticism by accusing the opposition of being Apartheid apologists or ideology driven. And the media of being bias and racist for the same reasons. And the unfortunate thing is it has worked on a number of people. It's a dangerous idea to shield anyone, no matter what, from criticism. It allows for tyrants to rise. Look at Putin in Russia. Look at North Korea. Look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe.
Zionism =/= Jews. What about the Christian Zionists who want Jews in Israel so their "Armageddon" could start? And don't get me started on people who use "Anti-zionism" as a mask for antisemitism (Not saying that everyone who is anti-zionist is an anti-semite)
IMO: The civilians of both sides are innocent to governments who use religion as a cover trying to seize the land for money and power,
And yes, it is anti-semitism
No, it bloody isn't. As a modern nation, Israel should expect to be criticized the same as any other nation. I criticize the US all the time, that doesn't mean I hate Americans.
@FuckIsrael
Wronf on two counts. Israel has committed some nasty crimes. Then again, that's the batshit insane Likudniks, not the left wing, which I admire.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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