various #fundie #homophobia ummah.com

This is a long discussion after the OP. Follow the link to see fundie vs not-so-fundie.

Claim: It is not haram to have homosexual thoughts

This claim is an apologetic one; and it seeks to come to a compromise with homosexuals and their lewdness along with the West and how they promote it and seek to have it accepted and part of the culture.

However, there is no compromise on a subject that the Quran and the Sunnah have already made clear. Thus, the claim that it is not haram to have homosexual thoughts and that one is not considered a sinner until he acts upon it is false. This is the same as saying it is not haram to be gay until you act on it.

It is clear that homosexuality is nothing but a perversion and a disease. There are numerous verses in the Quran about it and how it is referred to as “Al-Fahishah” (Lewdness, an abomination, a vile deed).

“And know that Allah knows what is in your minds, so fear Him”

[al-Baqarah 2:235]

“but He will call you to account for that which your hearts have earned”

[al-Baqarah 2:225].

It is also clear that homosexuality begins as nothing but waswas from the Shaytan. We know that Shaytan and his troops are behind every evil on earth; they entice mankind to commit evil and they beautify shamelessness to them, and that is especially in regards to acts of lewdness in society; so why do we separate Shaytan and his effect on people turning gay? Why do we ignore it and indirectly agree with the kuffar’s claim that homosexuality is a natural cause by saying thinking about it is not haram but only acting upon it is?

With the fact established that homosexuality starts as nothing but waswas from the Shaytan (convincing a person that he likes men or women), it is wajib on a person to repel waswas from his mind and evil thoughts as much as he can. If a person watches pornography, lives in a society where they see homosexuality as normal, doesn’t lower his gaze from looking at the ‘awrah of men and women; then he gets waswas from the devil saying that he likes men; and instead of repelling these evil thoughts, he dwells on them and accepts them; and eventually, he convinces himself that he doesn't like women but he likes men, then the source of the problem is very clear. The means to homosexuality and zina must be cut off, and that includes dwelling upon thoughts regarding them.

As for waswas a person cannot help or just passing thoughts that he does not dwell upon, yes, a person will not be held accountable and there is evidence for that. However, if this happens to someone, he is not considered gay. So a person cannot use this as evidence to say it is not haram to be gay until you act on it. He is only considered gay when he dwells on those thoughts and he accepts that he is not attracted to women, which leads him to act upon it.

Some responses
We are judged by our actions and not our thoughts (as long as we don’t dwell on them). If someone is gay but doesn’t act on it, then how can you say it’s haram? You can’t, because their feelings are not a sin and they didn’t act on it. . . . .


So it’s not an apologetic attitude to have and Muslims really need to do better when faced with these issues, because condemning gay people when they haven't even done anything is stupid and will hurt you and them in the long run.


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I say it is haram because he got waswas from the Shaytan and he didn’t repel them. Instead, he dwelt on those thoughts and accepted that he does not like women. For him to accept he does not like women, it is the same as accepting that Allah made him that way. This is the same as saying Allah made him inclined to al-Fahishah. If it is not natural, then it is from the Shaytan. So he must repel the waswas.

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I want to say this is a separate post because it obliterates your claim completely:

You claim that being gay is okay until you act on it. That is the same as saying being an atheist inwardly is okay. Both atheism and homosexuality go against the natural disposition, both of them are from the Shaytan, and both of them are irrational and an abomination.

How many people including Muslims get waswas about the Essence of Allah? Shaytan whispers to someone that Allah does not exist -- prove that He exists. If he does not repel these thoughts and he dwells on them, and he lives in a society that accepts it and he is lax with his prayers and connection to Allah, he will eventually become an atheist (as we see many Muslims do today). The same goes for homosexuality.

The only difference is the society you live in has made you desensitized to homosexuality.

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From what I have read and asked questions of a scholar, it is not a sin to have a thought and to accept it is wrong and to resist and repel that thought and any subsequent thoughts.

Nevertheless, we must be aware that not all homosexuals are lewd and promoting their condition. Some are struggling to live with a very difficult situation as best they can in submission and obedience to Allah (swt) so we need to be mindful of this group in the way we speak about this topic.

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But sister, we cannot call such people homosexuals, these people are simply people who struggle with waswasa and lowering their gaze. Being a homosexual and identifying as such means one has accepted homosexuality. And what’s funny is science is trying really hard to prove homosexuality is genetic (giving it a reason for even existing) but so far, nothing great has come up.
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Here’s my thought process, homosexuality and heterosexuality is mainly about sex and attraction. If a straight guy is having urges towards every female around, then he should control himself and say “Allah comes first.” If a gay guy is having urges towards some guys around, then he should control himself and say “Allah comes first.”

If brothers and sisters have issues when it comes to zina, then someone who has attraction to the same gender will feel the same way so it’s best to remind them to control their nafs and remember Allah

That is all.

If you feel like this is not the right approach and instead it’s better to condemn the person and tell them that everything about them is a sin, then feel free to do it. But my approach is better, because we’re all in this together and we all want to go to Jannah.
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sis this quote along with the link that describes how someone may be more genetically inclined to being gay means that I do not mean all kids and people who are/were molested will turn out gay, it simply explains why gay people who think they were born like this turned out this way. “I remember when I was 8 I had a crush on a boy” yet the man who says this was molested at age 5, so of course this will mean he will like boys by age 8 if he were gay, but because he doesn't link the incidence with his orientation, he thinks he is “born” like this. AstaghfiruAllah.

Sister you are failing to realize no one is born gay. Did Allah ta’ala create people born with genetic diseases (God forbid this on all of us and future kids) and condemn them? Did Allah ta’ala create people who have mental and physical disabilities and condemn them? Sub’ana Allah. So why would Allah ta’ala create gay people only to condemn their existence? Okay, let’s hypothetically say there is decent proof of a link between genetics and the inclination towards the same sex, but can’t they control who they marry? Can’t they control such urges? I’ll tell you this right now, there is not a single gay man who cannot be intimate with a woman, everything can biologically proceed but it his “preference” that he does not be with a woman.
A person who God forbid, has schizophrenia (genetic mental illness) cannot, for the life of them, control their disease.

And of course, I am nice to everyone. They are just sinners after all. Will they be close friends? Of course not, just like any other person who chooses to openly sin. I do not want to be associated with such people and possibly be influenced. Will I be mean to them and be proud? Of course not. I say Allah yihdeeyon and keep moving.


Much more of this at the link

3 comments

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