The mental gymnastics here are truly stunning, particularly when all you have to do is examine the rest of the Bible for confirmation. Exegesis makes it all very clear. And you don't ever have to read a bunch of pagan homosexual heresy along the way. Let me help: "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them" Leviticus 20:13. Seems pretty clear to me. Although I'm sure there's pro homosexual literature out there that attempts to rationalize this away as well with pseudo intellectual pagan historical revisionism...or maybe just arguments about how eating non-kosher foods was also punishable by death so being gay is no worse than that...or that Sodom wasn't destroyed by God for sexual immorality (specifically the gay sexual immorality described in the Biblical account), it was just the result of an unfortunate natural disaster.
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"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them" Leviticus 20:13. Seems pretty clear to me.
Me too. Gay sex is fine as long as you don't do it lying down.
Funny how John is saying people are looking in other parts of the bible for confirmation.
...or that Sodom wasn't destroyed by God for sexual immorality (specifically the gay sexual immorality described in the Biblical account),...
Perhaps John should try it himself.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 (KJV)
49: Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50: And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
The thing is if you're going to follow Leviticus 18:22 to the letter of the law, then you have to follow all the rest of Leviticus as well, including not eating shellfish, not wearing clothes of mixed fibers, not working on the Sabbath, not eating meat and dairy products together, sacrificing animals, etc. You don't get to claim that one is the unchangeable command of God while all the rest are just OT Jewish dietary laws which don't apply any more. Either all of Leviticus still applies, or none of it does.
David and Jonathan.
Ero... er, I mean exe gesise that: especially as there isn't word one of condemnation in that particular part of Scripture: the Old Testament.
...and why isn't there word one of condemnation: in the New Testament? And by one certain man who hung around with twelve men , two of whom were sailors ; one of said twelve kissed him. Who hardly associated with women, if ever, and never had a girlfriend: least of all married one. Wore a dress too. I guess we don't to need to 'Contextualise' that - or need to be Freud - to come to our own conclusions about that part of Scripture: the New Testament.
Seems pretty clear to me.
"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them"
But 'a woman who lies with a female as those who lie with a man' is just fine?
I assume you plan to follow all the rest of the rules in Leviticus, right? I mean, if god really hated gays, I'm sure that would have been listed as one of god's little Top Ten list. But being gay apparently ranks below "coveting".
Leviticus 20:13 and Leviticus 18:22 both apparently prohibit male on male sexual relations. They say nothing about female on female sexual relations because to the Hebrews females didn't matter.
But who cares? The Bible also prohibits working on Sunday and getting a tattoo. Leviticus 19:29 "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord." So why aren't Christians calling for tattoo parlors to be shut down?
The excuse is that Paul said that Christians no longer had to follow the OT law which renders your Leviticus argument a bit moot. Either you adhere by all of the OT laws or you adhere by none. You can't just pick and choose the ones you like and then point to the OT for justification.
@hydrolythe
Leviticus 20:13 contains the Hebrew "mishkab" which means (a) couch, bed, (b) act of lying, lying down or sleeping room, bedroom or (c) lying down (for sexual contact).
That translation you're quoting ignores a prominent word in the passage and strikes me as at best wishful thinking.
Leviticus 19:19https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2019
Not wearing a blended fabric, are you, John? We might have to get one of the boys to lift your shirt and check.
Well, it's pretty much impossible for a man to lie with another man like with a woman, so the whole thing isn't very clear at all. And great that you have already stated the best argument against taking this line serious (eating shellfish or wearing mixed clothes were equally forbidden, so what makes homosexuality so much worse that it should still be considered wrong while the rest of the mosaic laws are not?) without giving any kind of counterargument. Or the fact that you seem to forget that Sodom was destroyed because of a lack of hospitality in general, not because of homosexuality (which isn't described at all). It seems to me that you are the one doing mental gymnastics.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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