[re: working with a homosexual]
What we are seeing more and more is that homosexuals are not seeking "equal rights" in society and the work place, they are seeking "special rights" in society and the work place.
Consider for a brief moment what would be the plight of a Christian who acts in the manner this homosexual is acting. How long would would a Christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?
58 comments
Repeat after me: "Being openly gay is NO MORE of a special right then being openly Christian"
Hey, I said repeat aft... aw fuck it. You're never going to listen anyways.
a) If a Christian spent her office hours trying to convert her fellow workers to Christianity, she would be fired. And deservedly so.
b) If a homosexual spent his office hours trying to convert his fellow workers to homosexuality, he would be fired. And deservedly so.
c) If a Christian had Christian paraphernalia on her desk, talked to her co-workers about what happened in church on Sunday, etc, she would not be fired for it, and if she was, she wouldn't deserve to be.
d) If a homosexual had a picture of his boyfriend on his desk, talked to his co-workers about his family, etc, he would not be fired for it, and if he was, he wouldn't deserve to be.
Anti-gay Christians, in general, seem to think that example (d) is equivalent to example (b). It's not.
tldr: being openly gay is not the same as aggressively recruiting for anything. Your analogy sucks.
So the person you're working with is trying to turn everyone gay then? Or do you seriously think that you wouldn't be allowed to casually mention the fact that you are Christian or have some sort of indicators that you are Christian, and thus gay people shouldn't let other people know that they are gay?
In the first case, that's a serious problem, but most likely rare, so get a grip.
How long would would a Christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?
A lot longer than a homosexual would last if he kept hitting on people who weren't interested. Homosexuals are subject to the same sexual harassment laws as anyone else. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with just being a homosexual or even letting everyone know you're a homosexual, any more than there's anything wrong with telling someone you're a Christian. Stop trying to make a martyr of yourself.
This guy must be blind. Everywhere i go i see religious knick-knacks and signs in offices, garages, stuck to cash registers, etc. That's witnessing.
Being open about one's sexual orientation is different from active evangelizing. You are welcome to be openly Christian AND/OR openly homosexual.
You may also notice that you are benefiting from our society's policy of allowing persons to be opening assholy and stupid.
False dichotomy and pure bullshit, Homosexuals in a workplace do what everyone else does if they want to keep their jobs-work! Just like Christians in workplaces mostly just believe what they want to believe and occasionally wear funny little crosses.
image
This only bothers vampires.
I have a hunch that by "openly", he means just short of carrying a bullhorn around. And from the context, I don't think he means just the actual philosophical ideals of the Christ (Beatitudes et al.).
It does bug me that ones like John 10:10 here (the verse, by the way, is "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Not exactly philosophy-centric...Can't we have a poster with the alias Micah 6:8 or the like?) seem to put salvation above ideals. I hardly think salvation was ever meant to be its own purpose...
Am I the only one a little bit bothered by this user's choice of biblical passages in their user name?
Ignoring everything this person said, John 10:10, says "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (NIV translation). Actually, the thief only comes to steal. The criminal who comes to kill is the murderer. And the destroyer is generally a hooligan or someone conscripted to the military.
I've always found that having [life] to the fullest extent begins with the whole concept of "live and let live." I've got a lot of gay friends, and the only "special" rights they ask for tie in with rights that I, as a straight man, take for granted.
"How long would would a Christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?
Not long as you are suppose to be fucking working. And do it enough and that can be considered harrassment.
It's no different then a gay guy or lesbian going after a straight co-worker all the time.
Alencon's right--I've known some gay people who took advantage of other people's desire not to appear as bigots to be really obnoxious, such as one young man in my freshman year of college, who would do things like walk around the halls in his bright pink underwear holding two pairs of jeans, grinning smugly and asking absolutely everyone which pair he should wear for his date. After he lost his virginity, he buttonholed every one of his neighbors individually and told us. All. About it. Gah.
He then converted to Judaism. There may be a connection.
He was however untypical and going through a youthful boundary-testing phase; John 10:10 is probably just being myopic.
During the past year I worked with my high school's tech support team. The tech support lady was very religious and wasn't exactly trying to hide it. But she also wasn't beating me upside the head with a keyboard and demanding that I convert or anything. All she did was keep a picture of Jesus on her desk and wear a crucifix around her neck. And right after Christmas she mentioned that her church had lovely service to commemorate the holiday. And she brought snacks in after Easter, but that's more secular than anything else.
She's been working there for six years.
Now if she'd been running around yelling at everyone to CONVERT NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL! she would have been fired a long time ago.
I am so fucking sick of these stupid motherfucking lying arguments and your persecution complex that instead of debunking them as usual I'm going to say that you whiney assholes deserve to be sent to Saudi Arabia to experience what REAL persecution is that or be reincarnated as a homosexual. Fortunately for you deporting you for having an opinion (even an incredibly stupid one) is immoral and contrary to the principles of freedom while reincarnation is more than likely just as much a fairy tale as heaven. As such, you'll never learn your lesson and constantly be a anchor against reason and human rights for the rest of your life. The only cure is educating everyone else so that you homophobes become as relevant as the KKK.
@Amadaun
Oh, nobody's doubting that there are gay jerks too who try to take advantage of the sympathy people have for homosexuals. But like you said, these people are in the minority (well, the minority OF their minority). But we all know that fundies only ever pay attention to cases that confirm their biases.
Why do I get the feeling the "special rights" John's referring to goes something like "Why should he have the special right to be open about his attraction to other males? My religion has completely denied me that right, and so theirs should be denied too!"
Idiot. Just because the existence of openly gay men is tempting you into coming out of the closet, doesn't mean they're actively trying to convert you.
"Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely! In broad daylight! Openly wearing the symbols of their religion... perhaps around their necks? And maybe -- dare I dream it? -- maybe one day there can be an openly Christian President. Or, perhaps, 43 of them. Consecutively."
Jon Stewart
What we are seeing more and more is that homosexuals are not seeking "equal rights" in society and the work place, they are seeking "special rights" in society and the work place.
How is wanting to be treated the same as everybody else seeking special rights?
Consider for a brief moment what would be the plight of a Christian who acts in the manner this homosexual is acting. How long would would a Christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?
Oh for fuck's sake, people are allowed to be Christian so long as it doesn't interfere with their jobs. Here's an image for you:
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Another conservative, evangelical 'Christian' who believes he should have special rights - to harass, persecute or otherwise pick on anyone who doesn't fit his own narrow definition of what a Christian is. Right from the school of Ted Faggard, Don Wildmon, Don Spitz & other un-'Christian' scum.
Johnny probably believes that homosexuals live to convert others, therefore it's exactly like religious conversion.
Of course, people of any sexuality and religon can keep their jobs, though others can try to make it harder.
i like how the thread is called "having to accept a new employees homosexuality," which would only be a reasonable statement if by "accept", he actually means allowing the gay guy to fuck him and he's on the fence about the whole idea. or if the gay guy is jerking off to gay porn during office meetings and distracting everybody and getting cum all over the power point projector
i also love the fact that one of his co-workers could be a serial killer who always has a deranged look on his face, but as long as he doesn't talk in a fruity voice, it's no big deal
Uh? My dad was openly agnostic at his former workplace, and was surrounded by religious nutters who tried to convert him. He politely informed them of his beliefs and why he believed that way. Wanna know what happened?
HE WAS FIRED.
So, yeah. BULLSHIT ON THIS BITCH.
What we are seeing more and more is that homosexuals are not seeking "equal rights" in society and the work place, they are seeking "special rights" in society and the work place.
Simply being allowed to seek employment in the same place as others is "special rights" now?! Think about what you're saying, man: you not only think they shouldn't be allowed to marry the people they love or hold steady jobs or adopt, but you think that subjugating them like this makes them "equal."
How long would would a Christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?
About as long as a Muslim, Jew, Scientologist, etc. who kept trying to convert everybody. Establishment Clause and all that. And if you're worried about a gay co-worker trying to put the moves on you, consider this...if he does make unwanted advances, you can file a sexual harassment suit.
Homosexuals don't want "special rights." People like you just want to give them special WRONGS.
I went to the thread to see what this person had apparently done that was so bad. It basically boiled down to "showed us photos on his phone of him in drag and told me he was engaged to his boyfriend" plus something about a t-shirt I didn't really get.
So in other words... he talked to his new co-workers about his hobbies and his romantic/family situation. Exactly the same things, you know, anyone tells anyone else when they're getting to know each other? I know I did exactly the same things when I started my current job, right down to the photos on my phone (except that was of my knitting)
Would a Christian who acted in the same manner keep their job? The Christian version of this would basically be... showing photos of you at the church fundraiser you went to, and telling people about the lovely church you were going to get married in, I suppose. I highly doubt anyone would get fired for that.
Evangelising everyone in the workplace would get you fired, as that is harassment and likely to make the work atmosphere very uncomfortable. That goes whether you're evangelising your religion or trying to "convert" everyone to your sexuality.
(I can't decide whether the rest of the thread is positive or not. There seems to be someone saying homosexual people are intersex... what???)
O____o I worked with two gay men once. One was an annoying stereotype, and hardly anyone could stand him.
The other was a hard-working, friendly, outgoing man with a great personality who happened to mention his boyfriend from time to time. (Had gay marriage not been banned in our state constitution a mere handful of years prior, he would no doubt have referred to this man as his husband. They were in a deeply committed relationship of the type I envied.) Not "rubbing it in people's faces," not "converting people to The Gay," not "seeking special rights," just matter-of-factly stating things such as "The reason I'm taking next Saturday off is because my boyfriend's mother is in town and we're all planning to spend the day together."
I was a homophobe before I worked that job. I'm not anymore. Guess why?
> How long would would a Christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?
I don't know about US, but our constitution has a few strong words about religious discrimination (along with other forms of discrimination, of course). In fact, the clause specifically mentions religion but not sexuality (which is covered under "other similar reasons pertaining to person". Or maybe it's covered under discrimination against people with psychological problems, if we're to believe fundies. =)
Look, nobody has a problem with gays or Christians. Everybody has problems with obnoxious people in general - it has nothing to do with religion or sexuality. As long as you understand that no means no, I don't have any problems working with you.
Um, your argument is bunk. You're allowed to say you're a Christian all you want. No one can say anything about it, unless you're being your normal, unelievably obnoxious self.
"How long would would a christian be allowed to keep his/her job if they openly witnessed their Christian faith to everyone in the workplace?"
Probably about as long as the gay man if decides to hit on every man he sees in the store.
I've worked with gays and I've had gay bosses. Mostly gay men and lesbians are very professional in the workplace precisely to avoid the kind of trouble John 10:10 here is trying to stir up.
And will someone please explain to me what "special rights" gays and lesbians are seeking? I honestly don't get it. Maybe I'm too rational or something.
There's a difference between being openly Christian and trying to proselytize everybody or preach to everybody. The former is acceptable, the latter is not.
By the same token, there's a difference between being openly gay and trying to get everyone else to be allies, and distributing paraphernalia even after they've been asked to stop.
Hey, did you see how I drew that parallel there? Distributing paraphernalia? You know, like door-to-door religious salesmen? Do you know how many times my grandmother has been bothered by Jehovah's Witnesses? She's 84 and has said repeatedly that she's not interested. Why don't they stick to people who seem interested?
(Lol, the last time they came around, I answered the door. In my pajamas. I'd never met them and they were nice, so I was polite and listened to what they had to say and took their two pamphlets. You should have seen how surprised they were to find that I, an atheist, knew that God could also be referred to as "Yahweh" or "Jehovah". XD)
@The L
"I was a homophobe before I worked that job. I'm not anymore. Guess why?"
I am so proud of you! :D I've never met anyone like that before! Well, I sort of was a homophobe when I was a kid, but that was just cuz I was a little kid and the thought of two guys having sex just seemed so "ick". I didn't think beyond that. But when I was older and started being exposed to the issue more and more, it took me about a nanosecond to determine that people have a right to love who they want and that homosexuality doesn't hurt anybody.
So when you say "homophobe" do you mean you just thought it was icky or you actually thought it was morally wrong?
If it's the latter, then at least there's some hope in this world... XD
Sincde when is equal rights for everyone considered "special rights?"
And preaching to everyone in the workplace is nowhere near the same as allowing a homosexual to have a job. You can be openly Christian or openly homosexual without forcing it upon everyone else. Unfortuately Christians can't understand that allowing someone to be openly homosexual is not the same as trying to convert everyone in the workplace.
Religion is not a valid excuse for workplace discrimination throughout the country whereas sexual orientation is valid grounds in many states.
Whaaaaah! Gays have special rights and religious people are being persecuted!
Okay, let's examine this for a moment.
For these two to even compare, the homosexual would have to be preaching that everyone else abandon their opposite-sex partners and take same-sex ones instead. That probably isn't happening, so the comparison is meaningless.
What's more likely is that the homosexual is talking about his experiences casually; a new partner, a crush, a break-up, friend's and family member's reactions to their coming out. In that case, for the comparison to work, the Christian would have to talk about their experiences casually; their time in church, or questions they have about their religion. That wouldn't get them fired. Why should it get the homosexual fired?
" they are seeking "special rights" in society and the work place. "
I've been asking fundies what these special rights are for 20 years, and none of them will tell me. It must be a secret.
If they said "I'm Christian" and leave it at that, no prob. If they started trying to convert everyone else, then they would be in trouble.
Same with homosexuals. If they only claim they are gay, no prob. If they keep try and hitting on people who said no, then there's problems.
See? Equality!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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