Full_Moon #fundie

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How do we know true from false and right from wrong?
Some maintain that such things are a matter of opinion and, apart from human opinion, have no existence at all. This is obviously false to Christians.

There does exist true and false, right and wrong.
Yet how do we know which is which?
Humans disagree, societies disagree, even religions disagree. Is there any solid way of knowing true from false or right from wrong?

God and God alone determines true from false and right from wrong.
As He loves us, so He reveals true from false and right from wrong to us.
Yet many maintain that there is no such revelation, and so they argue over true and false, right and wrong, based on their thoughts, beliefs, opinions, feelings and those of other humans. In essence, many will maintain that the basis of and or only way of knowing true from false and right from wrong is the 'self'

As Christians we do not abide in our 'selves', nor follow our 'selves', nor determine true from false or right from wrong by our 'selves'.

Jesus Christ is the One in whom we abide and not another, even our 'selves'. He is the revelation of truth and righteousness.
So why do some Christians say "God has revealed homosexual acts are immoral", while others say "We, our 'selves', believe it is not immoral"? Which 'side' has its moral basis in God's revelation and which 'side' has its moral basis in the 'self'?

I tell you no church has ever blessed homosexual relationships through God's word but only by following popular opinion based on majority vote.

20 comments

old comment by Redhunter

Okay, two parts that are a problem...

some Christians say "God has revealed homosexual acts are immoral", while others say "We, our 'selves', believe it is not immoral"? Which 'side' has its moral basis in God's revelation and which 'side' has its moral basis in the 'self'?

besides being a question you've taken upon yourself to answer, the problem lies in the fact that I know what 'self' is. I'm hear and I know me. I'm not a hidden secret. So as far as there is no proof of a god, it's like measuring a cup of chocolate, with a cup of good intentions.

God and God alone determines true from false and right from wrong.

So...you and your enemy are on different sides of an issue, both claim the 'right' way according to their belief system, not off of logic or reason. The possible result? Inquisitions. Putting everything fully behind your imagined friends just means that lots of people are going to get pissed, and they are going to get hurt. apparently something else deities love.

old comment by David B.

Interesting [i]New York Times[/i] article:
@New York Times

Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior By NICHOLAS WADE Published: March 20, 2007 Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days. [...] Dr. de Waal, who is director of the Living Links Center at Emory University, argues that all social animals have had to constrain or alter their behavior in various ways for group living to be worthwhile. These constraints, evident in monkeys and even more so in chimpanzees, are part of human inheritance, too, and in his view form the set of behaviors from which human morality has been shaped. Many philosophers find it hard to think of animals as moral beings, and indeed Dr. de Waal does not contend that even chimpanzees possess morality. But he argues that human morality would be impossible without certain emotional building blocks that are clearly at work in chimp and monkey societies. Dr. de Waal’s views are based on years of observing nonhuman primates, starting with work on aggression in the 1960s. He noticed then that after fights between two combatants, other chimpanzees would console the loser. But he was waylaid in battles with psychologists over imputing emotional states to animals, and it took him 20 years to come back to the subject. He found that consolation was universal among the great apes but generally absent from monkeys among macaques, mothers will not even reassure an injured infant. To console another, Dr. de Waal argues, requires empathy and a level of self-awareness that only apes and humans seem to possess. And consideration of empathy quickly led him to explore the conditions for morality. Though human morality may end in notions of rights and justice and fine ethical distinctions, it begins, Dr. de Waal says, in concern for others and the understanding of social rules as to how they should be treated. At this lower level, primatologists have shown, there is what they consider to be a sizable overlap between the behavior of people and other social primates.

Yo, fundies! You know that morality you're always banging on about? It's an evolutionary adaption!

old comment by

Is it wrong to sell your daughter? Is it wrong to stone someone to death for adultery? Is it wrong smash babies on rocks? Every fibre in my body screams out against things like this. Even if the victims of these horrors were my enemies, I would oppose these things. But what does the god of your bible say about these things? Read the book cover to cover and then come back and if you still feel your post is true, then more the fool you are!
Ok here is an interesting post I found. You may know it. Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding Godâ?s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other specific Biblical laws and how to follow them. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why canâ?t I own Canadians? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I donâ?t agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldnâ?t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that Godâ?s word is eternal and unchanging. Just laughed through the whole thing. I am from Germny and religion is no big deal over there. We have a view fundies, but they are defiantly less aggressive.