"...Still, putting the two facts together--the drunk defense and his conspiracy theory--Gibson is clearly what the Abe Foxman and Norm Podhoretz would call an anti-Semite. However, we Christians do not have to accept their opinion, which is deliberately crafted to suggest that most Christians throughout history are classic anti-Semites on par with Heinrich Himmler. Liking or disliking the Jews one meets--or even liking or disliking them generally--is a matter of taste, preference, and upbringing. Most serious Christians, as a matter of preference and conviction, would rather spend time with other Christians. There would be something wrong with them if they did not--much as there is something with a husband who prefers to spend time with women other than his wife. It is hard enough for Baptists to tolerate Lutherans and a bit too much to insist that they become matey with Jews who often despise their religion and their way of life
Theories of history are matters of fact and reason. The fact that so many troublemakers of the past 150 years have been of Jewish extraction--Marx, Freud, the Neoconservatives--is certainly no argument in their favor. Jewish "intellectuals" continue to be in the forefront of the movements that aim to destroy our religion and culture."
26 comments
So you are unfairly called an anti-semite, but in reality it is "just" upbringing, and personal taste that makes you suspicious and slanderous in your disliking for Jews?
Jews have been troublemakers and the best you can come up with includes a short listing containing Freud's name?
Are you aware of your neurological disorder? Because it's pretty obvious from where I'm sitting.
"However, we Christians do not have to accept their opinion, which is deliberately crafted to suggest that most Christians throughout history are classic anti-Semites on par with Heinrich Himmler."
Actually, that's fucking true.
Hmm, I'm thinking of more recent troublemakers--Stalin, Pol Pot, Bin Laden, Mao, Hussein, Kim Jong-Il, Pinochet, for starters--and none of them were Jewish.
Tommy, you might want to rethink your anti-Semitism. After all, your Messiah was Jewish. And he was classified as a troublemaker, wasn't he?
Neoconservatives are Jewish?
Also, there have been only 3 troublemakers in the last 150 years?
And just because you can't imagine being friends with someone who doesn't share your religious views, I think that if you wandered out into the real world and talked to normal people, you would find that people do it all the time, especially those that don't see the need to force their religious views on others.
Was Hitler´s taste acceptable?, moreover, is a man, who clearly has behaved in a jerk and anti-christian way, insulting people who were just fulfilling their duty in order to cover up his own sins a man to credit and serious sober intellectuals aren´t?. Besides, that they spend time with other Christians is false. Jesus spent time with pagans, of course, (see the Roman soldier or the Greek woman who had a possesed daughter) and prostitutes and sinners. Moreover, what the Hell do you think they do when trying to convert?. Besides, you believe in tolerance, when you are to be tolerated, not when you have to tolerate the rest of the people.
part of me thinks all this anti-semitism is partly based on jealousy. Let's see...Jews: hated all over Europe and the Middle East over the centuries and yet they manage to survive, massive contributions to science and mathematics, larger proportion of Nobel Prize winners than most other ethnic group, founded a religion that's the basis of half the people in the world. Jews kick ass, i wish i was jewish
Nazis. I hate these guys.
@ Lucifer: Who are on that shirt? I see da Fonz, Einstein, Jesus, and Bob Zimmerman^H^H^H^H Dylan. I don't recognize the black man ... and is that William Shatner in the bottom middle?
However, we Christians do not have to accept their opinion, which is deliberately crafted to suggest that most Christians throughout history are classic anti-Semites on par with Heinrich Himmler.
?!?!?!
I know a lot of Christians. I know most of them aren't anti-Semites. Then again, you raise a pretty good argument at the end that you yourself are one.
Chan -- Yes, it's Shatner; the brother is Sammy Davis, Jr.
Sure, there have been NO Christian troublemakers. No Mussolini, or Hitler, or W, or...
"... It is hard enough for Baptists to tolerate Lutherans and a bit too much to insist that they become matey with Jews ..."
Better do everything possible to stay out of heaven, then. I hear rumors that there are plenty of different denominations there. And, you know that guy who sits on the right side of the throne? I heard he was so Jewish that he went to Jerusalem to celibrate Passover when he had that unfortunate accident involving two wooden planks and some nails.
@Wolf O'Donnell
Yes... and up is down, left is backwards and trees are really human-eating monsters.
Hey! I saw that episode of X-Files!
Liking or disliking the Jews one meets--or even liking or disliking them generally--is a matter of taste, preference, and upbringing.
Taste!? 0o And how did you decide that Jews weren't to your taste? Did you try some Jesus-on-a-stick? Did you assault and fellate an unwary Jew who was passing by?
The "upbringing" part is common sense: if you got raised by bigoted antisemitic fundie assholes, chances are high that you will hate Jews too....
BTW, the overrepresentation of Jews among intellectuals is the Church's own damn fault: when you don't let the "heathens" own land or grow food for Xians, you pretty much force them into jobs that require at least a degree of litteracy (banking/money-lending and trading, for example). Over several centuries, momentum builds, and smarts and instruction become survival traits. Add to that the Church suppressing science and reflexion among its flock (while Jewish scholars may have been exempted from at least some of the restrictions their Xian colleagues suffered), and well... not really a surprise that Jews had a head start when obscurantism went out of fashion.
Still, putting the two facts together--the drunk defense and his conspiracy theory--Gibson is clearly what the Abe Foxman and Norm Podhoretz would call an anti-Semite.
Gibson's an anti-Semite?
image
However, we Christians do not have to accept their opinion...
Hopefully, you're referring to Mel Gibson's opinion. It would be very nice if fewer people shared his opinion.
...which is deliberately crafted to suggest that most Christians throughout history are classic anti-Semites on par with Heinrich Himmler.
I don't know about "most," but many certainly are. At least you admit that Himmler was a Christian.
Liking or disliking the Jews one meets--or even liking or disliking them generally--is a matter of taste, preference, and upbringing.
Liking or disliking a Jew you meet based on reasons other than his Judaism is perfectly normal. Disliking someone because he's Jewish is anti-Semitism. This is bigotry, and it doesn't matter why you feel it. Disliking Jews as a group is basically the definition of anti-Semitism, and it makes you a bigot no matter why you do it.
Most serious Christians, as a matter of preference and conviction, would rather spend time with other Christians.
That's because they're xenophobic and probably bigots. Of course, I don't think you know much about "most Christians." Many Christians are not like the redneck hicks in your little town.
There would be something wrong with them if they did not...
Something wrong with them?! Look, buster: Out here in the real world, xenophobia and bigotry are not considered desirable traits.
...much as there is something with a husband who prefers to spend time with women other than his wife.
image
You can't compare people who have chosen to devote their lives to each other with bigots.
It is hard enough for Baptists to tolerate Lutherans...
Oh, come on! You both belong to the same religion! You have the same holy books, you worship the same magic sky fairy, you believe in all the same characters and stories, but you disagree on a few minor details, so you hate each other. How mature.
...and a bit too much to insist that they become matey with Jews...
Well, I suppose it is. If you're such a hateful little prat that you can barely stand people who belong to your own religion, I don't think I can expect you to tolerate other religions without a lobotomy.
...who often despise their religion and their way of life
OK, now you've gone too far.
Mr. Fleming, I'm going to tell you something about Jews. Judaism is and has always been a minority religion, and probably always will be. Would you like to know why that is? It's because Jews don't prosylitize. Christians try to make everyone Christian. They consider non-Christians to be "heathens" who have to be converted at all costs. They've killed millions people for not being Christian. Jews don't care whether or not you're Jewish as long as you leave the Jews alone. If you want to convert to Judaism, fine. Many Jews would be happy about that, but none of them will actually force you to do it. As long as you leave us alone, we don't care what you do.
So you see, Jews would be the last people to despise your religion and way of life. You have just admitted, in your post, however, that you hate Jews.
This ties back to the psychological limitation that you and most other fundies face. You are unable to understand any belief except as a twisted replica of your own belief. You recognize Christianity as a violent hateful religion, and thus assume that all other religions must be violent and hateful.
Theories of history are matters of fact and reason.
Yes, history is a matter of fact and reason. You, however, seem to be lacking in both of those categories.
The fact that so many troublemakers of the past 150 years have been of Jewish extraction--Marx, Freud, the Neoconservatives--is certainly no argument in their favor.
Karl Marx, Mr. "Religion is the opiate of the masses" was Jewish? News to me. What did he do wrong, again? He came up with the idea of communism, which was a great idea in theory although unworkable in practice. Sure, other people took his ideas and tried to force them to work with disasterous results, but he didn't actually do anything wrong. What about Sigmund Freud? How was he a "troublemaker?"
As for "neoconservatives?" Excuse me for a moment.
image
OK, I'm back.
Anyway, Mr. Fleming, the neoconservative troublemakers wreaking havoc in our country today are mostly (if not exclusively) Christian. Many of them are Baptists. Yes, your type of Christian.
Jewish "intellectuals" continue to be in the forefront of the movements that aim to destroy our religion and culture.
Oh, come on! When have Jews ever done anything to harm Christians? This is especially funny coming from a member of a religion that has launched genocidal campaigns against Jews.
It's actually funny that you mention Jewish intellectuals. Jews have more intellectuals per capita than most other groups. This is because Christians (like you) persecuted us and prevented us from owning land. Unable to own land and farm, we were forced to learn skills and take up professions. Thanks to the persecution we faced at the hands of Christians like you, skills and smarts became necessary; you couldn't get a job without them. By persecuting us, you Christians are actually the reason why we have more intellectuals.
I don´t know about the rest of the Christians, now or throughout history, but YOU, from your rant, I can infer that you´re confirming what you vehemently tried to deny before.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.