(On cases where giving birth would kill the mother and/or the baby)
Having a premature baby is far different from having an abortion because the mother "will" die (in the doctors OPINION anyway). Trusting God is not murdering the wife, it's saying "we will obey God by not murdering our baby, and trust Him with the wife's life".
(later on)
I'm a mom to two young boys and my husband said he would never want to lose me, but both us and our church believe that murder is wrong for ANY reason. I don't know why this concept is so difficult for people...it's emotional for sure, but the Biblical commands are clear here so we just have to put our emotions in check and OBEY.
59 comments
Trusting God is not murdering the wife,
So you think the man should have the final say, even thought the woman wants to live and the doctor wants to save her. How is this any better than a man taking his wife in and forcing an abortion IT'S HER FUCKING BODY! HER FUCKING DECISION!
Seriously you have a fucking brain, try engaging it once in a while. And the bible clearly states that if the husband wants you to lose the kid, it's his decision. The person who beats the shit out of you only has to pay what the father demands. Well if he didn't want the kid, I guess he wouldn't have to pay anything.
Go have a biblcial abortion you fucking douche.
Edit:
But...since nothing happens without God's will, surely, since it would be well within the doctor's power to save the mother by removing the doomed fetus anyways, that it must actually be God's will that the mother's destiny to live and raise a family, rather than die? I mean, I'm sure you'd use this rationalization if you had a heart attack, or if your kid fell in the street and suffered a head injury. Or would you just curl up in a corner to die? It's much easier to decry life saving procedures when you're not the one that's condemned...
If you don't vigorously oppose any war efforts your country is involved in, you are a 100% hypocrite.
You're certainly ALREADY a 100% liar to say the bible is 'clear on abortion'. It vaguely condones it, if anything.
[1] Your Bible doesn't doesn't consider the organism human until a month after birth.
[2] Except in your fevered mind, there is no murder involved.
[3] You are morally depraved.
No medical treatments for anyone for whatever reason is just saying "We will obey and trust in God." Of course, millions will die, but, what's really important anyway?
"Having a premature baby is far different from having an abortion because the mother "will" die (in the doctors OPINION anyway). Trusting God is not murdering the wife, it's saying "we will obey God by not murdering our baby, and trust Him with the wife's life". "
So you are saying that my atheist wife has to risk her life so that YOUR religious beliefs are not ignored?
"I'm a mom to two young boys and my husband said he would never want to lose me, but both us and our church believe that murder is wrong for ANY reason. I don't know why this concept is so difficult for people...it's emotional for sure, but the Biblical commands are clear here so we just have to put our emotions in check and OBEY."
But your forcing beliefs onto other people may cause them to die, making you the reason for their deaths..oh what am I saying, you dont really give a shit about anyone but your self do you?
Aussiemama, why do you have such little faith? If you really trusted God you would allow the woman to have a doctor remove the embryo, zygote, or fetus and rely on the miraculous power of God to sustain it outside the womb! Don't you think the Big Guy can do it? i bet you don't think so, do you? How sad to be someone so faithless...
First off, your own bible states that murder can only happen after birth.
Numbers 3:15 Take a census...including every male a month or more old
Leviticus 27:6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver and for the female three shekels
Hell, even any newborn under one month was considered to have no value as a human person.
Secondly...
Your own bible states that if a mother is to die with a pregnancy, it is much better to end her pregnancy, because, once again, the fetus has no worth.
both us and our church believe that murder is wrong for ANY reason.
..And you believe in the bloodthirsty, murder-loving god of the bible WHY?
As a preemie, uh, FUCK YOU.
"Trusting God" IS murder, under the law, when you deny a person medical treatment in favor of begging your god to intervene.
Most women don't die giving birth to preemies, dipshit. The babies are generally the ones who tend to die in those cases. This is not the 14th century; we have antibiotics now.
Man, I used to be a member of T4C. Good to have confirmation that leaving was the right choice.
Yes, because it's gawd's job to murder the babies after all. And their mothers while he's at it.
As for you, aussiemama, it's not about emotions. Imagine yourself with an ectopic pregnancy. The results of NOT getting an abortion are that the baby is going to die, you're going to die. Your husband will lose his wife, and your sons will lose their mother.
It's not like it's murder for the doctor to let you die which breaches his Hippocratic Oath and legal duty of care is it?
*checks his law books*
Oh wait, it is. So the choice is between the Doctor being a murderer and going to jail for doing nothing or allowing the Doctor to do his legally and morally obligated task and making you a murderer in the eyes of your non-existant god? I think I'll let the Doctor do his goddamn job thank you!
Yeah, fuck the wife..shes useless.
The baby, on the other hand, can be easily taught to be a killing machine for Christ..GAH-LORY!
"...murder is wrong for ANY reason."
There are quite a few instances where murder is acceptable. The death penalty and self defense are both Biblical killings that are still legal in today's society. Some people might say that killing in the battlefield is murder. I don't hear you protesting about that.
So you and your ilk are completely OMG COOL with the Iraq war and killing innocent Iraqi civilians, yet when a doctor is sitting there saying we need to abort the fetus or the mother dies, you go all apeshit? That doesn't make any fucking sense. You're not a doctor, and frankly, if I were the mother, I wouldn't trust some invisible sky fairy to keep me alive, I'd trust in MODERN MEDICINE.
No worries, some women might NOT want to bring their kids up in abject poverty or die in childbirth.
"...believe that murder is wrong for ANY reason."
Yet I bet you are for the death penalty and think that war is okay sometimes. Don't make claims that almost no one in your religion (or outside of it) live up to.
Here's the question I'd like answered:
Why is the life of an adult, sentient woman with family and friends and possibly other children ALWAYS worth less than the existence of a fetus that doesn't even have the self-awareness of a pet??? If the house was burning down, would you tell the firemen to save your dog and your plants, and THEN go for your wife???
Doing nothing when a medical procedure is available IS murder, you stupid git!
My husband* would have the doctors remove anything from my body, if that meant I would live on. A hand, a leg, an arm, a lump of parasitic cells in the womb, a malignant tumor, an eye, whatever. My life is more important to him, than any piece of tissue not neccessary for sustaining that life.
You'd rather leave your children motherless, than remove something that is killing you? Some mother you are! Idiot!
* If I wasn't able to make the decision, that is.
So if a woman decides not to get the abortion, God will make sure she survives? Always? That's obviously not true, plenty of women have died from such complications. So why exactly would you trust God when he's shown that you can't trust him?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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