White Wolf has been woke long before being woke was even known outside of fringe academic circles. The older Vampire the Masquerade and Werewolf the Apocalypse books are full of explicitly anti-Christian drek, especially the initial supplement about the Furies, which explicitly states that the Abrahamic God was made up to oppress women or something.
Also, a bit of a tangent, but while we’re talking about actively immoral gaming, I should mention Shin Megami Tensei, which I once heard snappily described as “what your Fundamentalist Mom thought Pokémon was”. In other words, a series where you actively tame demons, and God (explicitly the Abrahamic God) is nearly always portrayed as an evil superfascist who wants to destroy all human freedom or some nonsense. Lucifer is also nearly always portrayed at least somewhat positively, and while admittedly he’s not always a good guy, he is sometimes portrayed that way. Garbage that I’m glad didn’t get popular in the West (until the spinoff “Persona” series, at least, which removes most of the overt demonic messaging and is at least somewhat better, albeit still drenched in dangerous nonsense.).
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Well, both of them seem to characterise your god quite accurately. Of course, I think your real problem is not that your god is portrayed as a misogynistic ultimate Lawful Evil, but rather that this is portrayed as a bad thing.
I mean White Wolf WoD/Onyx Path is survival horror and uses religious ideologies and whatnot exactly as one who read history, read various religious literature would expect. As to Lucifer, infernals tend to be portrayed as antagonists. There are demons as PCs which carries a bit of Paradise Lost way. Your bible god tends to be lawful or neutral evil with the amount of lies and broken promises, commands to kill unbelievers and homosexuals debatably.
I hope you never discover Kult Divinity Lost. Your god is the demiurge in it.
while we’re talking about actively immoral gaming
Not that I’m planning to be a game developer, but if I ever do, there’s my name for it, my Patreon or whatever. Actively Immoral Gaming, by KingOfRhye.
Just FYI, from that I know in SMT, YHWH is portrayed as “order to the extreme” while Lucifer is portrayed as “chaos to the extreme”. Whoever is “better” solely depends on your perspective.
Besides, I’m surprised you like Persona more. After all, in that franchise the embodiment of evil itself is not the source of humanity’s wickedness, but the exact opposite. Nyarlathotep is born out of humanity’s wickedness instead. So you fundies can’t blame satan for your own mistakes all the time. Not to mention in Persona 5 the final boss (Yaldabaoth) is defeated by Satanael (the “ultimate rebel” and the MC’s strongest Persona) headshotting him.
The older Vampire the Masquerade and Werewolf the Apocalypse books are full of explicitly anti-Christian drek
…yet, my best friend who is currently running campaigns with his local RPG group with these same games would be glad to prove you wrong, seeing as he is a long time Church of England Christian.
When even he can tell the difference between fantasy & reality, you know that that it's more than just your entire ‘argument' that has problems, OP.
Lucifer is also nearly always portrayed at least somewhat positively, and while admittedly he’s not always a good guy, he is sometimes portrayed that way. Garbage that I’m glad didn’t get popular in the West (until the spinoff “Persona” series, at least
…and never mind the more recent instalments of the “Shin Megami Tensei” franchise, wait till you get a load of “Helltaker”…!
and God (explicitly the Abrahamic God) is nearly always portrayed as an evil superfascist who wants to destroy all human freedom or some nonsense
If the shoe fits….
White Wolf has been woke long before being woke was even known outside of fringe academic circles. The older Vampire the Masquerade and Werewolf the Apocalypse books are full of explicitly anti-Christian drek, especially the initial supplement about the Furies, which explicitly states that the Abrahamic God was made up to oppress women or something
Should you be reminded writers of fictions are not necessarily supporting or believing what they write? For exemple, in pre-Revolutionary Europe, it was common for explicitely Christian writers and authors to create artwork about Classical Mythology, and they weren’t adherents to Classical Religion. Indeed, Classical education was pushed in schools held by Christian churches.
In the SMT series there is no good or evil. There is Order vs Chaos, with both being just as evil and morally bankrupt. Order comes off as good at first glace but generally their idea of order is to take away all free will. While Chaos is freedom sure but a survival of the fittest style of freedom. And Neutrality? Which humanity represents? It's not much better. It tends to represent stagnation.
That's what I love about the SMT series to be honest. There is no right choice, only your choice.
@Creativerealms #102563
Which isn’t much help to an idealist like myself. Law’s authoritarianism of mandates, Chaos’s authoritarianism of strength, the White’s authoritarianism of void…Better idea, dispel the power of authoritarianism itself. Which probably requires making it so the demons (Yhvh, Lucifer, and Mem Aleph included) have more complete mentalities than they currently do—that is, have truly free will. They can currently each choose among several whats, true, but not among several whys. (I see the same problem in Theros’s gods in Magic: The Gathering.)
Long story short, I want no part of nihilism, whether like Friedrich Nietzsche or like Phillip Mainländer.
“The older Vampire the Masquerade and Werewolf the Apocalypse books are full of explicitly anti-Christian drek,”
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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