Drich #fundie

Drich #fundie atheistforums.org

Define religious document. The constitution may not declare God to be 'x' nor does it say one has to worship god a certain way, but it does allow for state sponsered church, or so thought men like Jefferson Adams and the other founding fathers.

38 comments

old comment by John_in_Oz

Jefferson AND Adams, perhaps?
Otherwise, he's not badly wrong.
Many States did have an Established Church, before and after the Revolution. The Constitution did not disestablish any of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion
Per Wikipedia:

Colony Denomination Disestablished[note 1]
Connecticut Congregational 1818
Georgia Church of England 1789[note 2]
Maryland Church of England 1776
Massachusetts Congregational 1833[note 3]
New Brunswick Church of England
New Hampshire Congregational 1790[note 4]
Newfoundland Church of England
North Carolina Church of England The North Carolina Constitution of 1776 disestablished the Anglican church, but until 1835 the NC Constitution allowed only Protestants to hold public office. From 18351876 it allowed only Christians (including Catholics) to hold public office. Article VI, Section 8 of the current NC Constitution forbids "any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God" from holding public office.[53] Such clauses were held by the United States Supreme Court to be unenforceable in the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, when the court ruled unanimously that such clauses constituted a religious test incompatible with First and Fourteenth Amendment protections.
Nova Scotia Church of England 1850
Prince Edward Island Church of England
South Carolina Church of England 1790
Canada West Church of England 1854
West Florida Church of England[note 5] 1783[note 6]
East Florida Church of England[note 5] 1783[note 6]
Virginia Church of England 1786[note 7]
West Indies Church of England 1868 (Barbados, not until 1969)

old comment by Anon-e-moose

The US Constitution doesn't so much as have word one verbatim mention of 'God', 'Jesus' or 'Creator', so you're already fucked from the start.

"but it does allow for state sponsered [sic] church"

image

You may now proceed to hand over the keys to the White House, Capitol Bulding & Supreme Court to Her Majesty's PM David Cameron; also 'The Football', the case-like device with the launch & authentication codes to the world's biggest nuclear arsenal to HM's Minister of Defence. Also, your armed forces must swear eternal allegiance to her. Hey, if you're admitting that the 'Great Experiment' - in an independent Republic, post-Revolutionary War, King George III, 'No Taxation without Representation', 'Boston Tea Party' etc - has failed, you might as well, seeing as my country, the UK, has a state religion, the Protestant Church of England. Which the above Queen Elizabeth II is head of; 'Defender of the Faith', and all that jazz. [/"Code Geass"]

...aaaaaaand that's where your argument FAILS. Enjoy your paradox, Dbitch. Seems someone doesn't know their own country's history. Strange then, that I - a non-American - was taught about such things (including the US Constitution) in History class at my British state school.

It says so much about a certain population of a country, when those outside of such knows far more about it's history than a sizeable proportion of that same country's own.

old comment by Doom Nugget

At one time, Drich was currect in his statement that states could declare a particular official religion. As others pointed out, several of the state constiutions had (or still has in some cases) such provisions before the signing of the US Constitution. Many states began to move away from enforcing such provisions though soon after ratification.

But it wasn't until the 14th amendment was ratified with its cementing that Due Process clause applies to the states as well as the federal government equally that states became bound by the same First amendment laws with no wiggle room to try and squirm out of the whole chuch/state seperation knots Christians love tying themselves up in. And since the 14th amendment was ratified in 1868, it's time to come join the rest of society in 2012 buddy-boy.

old comment by michael3ov

" but it does allow for state sponsered church"

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

It takes an amazing amount of moronic mental gymnastics to see this as allowing for a state sponsored church.

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."
-Thomas Jefferson

Drich #fundie atheistforums.org

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