Nope. Totally disagree. If I get a woman pregnant, that child is half mine. I should have legal rights over it. I will claim legal rights over it, and if the woman aborts without my consent (I would love to have a child), and ends my child's life without consulting me, it isn't like I'm just going to walk away with an "aw shucks" attitude. Various forms of retribution come to mind...
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that child is half mine. I should have legal rights over it.
If it comes down to it, which half would you like to have? [conjures up King Solomon's judgement]
Various forms of retribution come to mind...
Yes, and the government and legal systems have various forms of retribution in mind too. Maximum security prisons are fun, right?
I've seen a lot of fundie quotes here, but this one kinda scares me.
Alan, you may love to "have" a child, but you certainly shouldn't.
You're absolutely right in that you have legal rights to that child. You also have responsibilities, and too many men demand one without the other. Are you as eager to provide financial and emotional support for that child as you are to demand visitation rights? Or are you spending your time and money fighting to reduce child support payments? Did you wait for a court to tell you how much to pay, or did you start providing support without waiting?
> If you want it that badly, carry it in your own womb.
[sarcasm]That's what the woman he knocked up is for.[/sarcasm]
Really far out thinking there...one-night stand and she has to put up with his nonsense - come on, who honestly thinks he'd support the kid? - for the next 18 years. He wants a kid so whoever is unlucky enough to pass on part of his genetic material should legally be stuck with him and his?
Sorry, dipshit. If I don't want to play host to your parasite, that's up to...wait for it...waaiiiit for it....ME! Simple, no?
This, ladies, is why you always bring your own form of birth control.
So your five-minute involvement with that child is equal to her nine months? (Let's get real about it, it's nine months and eighteen years in most cases.) if you want a baby, YOU have it.
Possessive and threatening, nice mix. Such a prince! No way she is going to want to have any lingering forced connection with you, Brian, trust me.
Yeah, suuuure... A guy does have a legal right to see his child-- not a fetus or an embryo, but a child. He does not have a right to a woman's body. He has no right to demand whether a woman gets an abortion or not. When it comes to carrying and birthing a child, the woman has the heavier burden. That's just the way it is. When a man can be 50% pregnant, then they can talk about it being equal.
This is some gross internet tough guy shit, but the attitude of taking "retribution" out on women is not exactly uncommon. Women are murdered by their male partners for being pregnant and wanting to carry a pregnancy to term. So, damned if they do, damned if they don't...
This is creepy.
And a weird sorta, inverse MRA position. Seen as the MRA positions I've seen amount to "I should be allowed to opt out of fatherhood during the same period a woman is allowed to opt out of motherhood"
Fundamentally it's a matter of imposition. Brian is imposing something on someone without their consent, as opposed to arguing an imposition should be lifted.
Note this should only apply to countries/states with ready access to abortion for women. If you live in texas, fucking texas, then I am all for the state imposing child support seen as its also imposing motherhood.
I do think that, provided he's not abusive or otherwise a total unworthy douche, the father should be at least consulted. At the end of the day, though, it's her body and her choice. Though one that shouldn't be made lightly, nor for the wrong reasons.
Your just a pissed off anti choice wuss. Your whole argument has only some merit, which you destroy with the typical "my way, or I'll make you pay!" mindset which is becoming a lot of the right's standard debating methodology. And you jerkoffs actually think you should be running society and the modern world, eh? That's not how a Law based Republic works. That's how organized crime works. You folks just keep it up. Our side will cheerfully accept the large number of young voters that you are disaffecting as quickly as you can. Dolt.
If men could become pregnant, there would be abortion facilities in all DIY stores.
I refer you to the main theme of the "Alien" films: fear of male pregnancy.
Otherwise, Womb Envy, much? You want to raise a child that much, adopt one.
(*Crickets chirp *)
...thought not.
If I get a woman pregnant, that child is half mine.
So you wouldn't mind signing a legal document committing yourself for the next 18 years of child support, allowing the court to garnish your wages, take your car and invade your bank account to enforce it and explaining to your future lovers that you still have a legal obligation to pay a third of your salary to support a child by a former women?
This is controversial, but I actually agree with the MRA position that a man who impregnates a woman but who did not want to a child should be able to legally opt out of its care. That means, however, that he loses all rights to the child; that his offspring would essentially no longer be his.
Here's a revolutionary idea: Men who want to be fathers should advertise that fact when dating, and then find compatible partners who want to be mothers. That would save everyone a lot of grief...especially if people attend me well when I say the folks must be *compatible.*
Notice the sheer number of times he slips into using "it".
This man is not a man who would love and cherish a child. This is a man who would see his child's successes and achievements as fluff of his own ego.
As long as the foetus is in the woman's body, it is an extension of her, so, no, the man does not have any right over the child.
I will agree as far as both parents having a serious and evenly weighted discussion about the potential future of a life but Brian your emphasis on a feeling of posession and savage vindictiveness definitively disqualifies you from responsible fatherhood.
A baby is until the development of cognition an extension of the mother's body. This is true. But I don't think it is fair to completely exclude the opinion of the father. Make no mistake the mother's physical and mental wellbeing are chief among my concerns but to completely cut out the other half of the creation of a life, particularly if they are willing and capable of taking responsibility for bringing a life into the world, is utterly unfair in a partnership barring medical and psycholigical concerns even if such an event brings that partnership to an end.
Just... Talk it out. Give a chance to plan and if one side is truly willing to commit to raising a child in the face of a break up consider their ability to follow through as long as their reasons surpass their own petty pathetic vanity.
Ultimately as it is a woman's body in question it is her call but please... just grant your partner the consideration of a true partner.
Paternal rights over the unborn is certainly a difficult issue, but unfortunately its hard to see a practical way of giving effect to those rights. Giving fathers a say in the decision to abort inevitably leads to women having children against their will, and defeats the whole purpose of abortion rights - allowing women the opportunity to control their own fertility.
On the other hand, surely a man should also be able to control his 'fertility'. Perhaps males should be able to 'disown' an unborn child in the first 20 weeks, such that the mother could then make her own decision, and if she decided to continue the father would not be responsible for the child when born. This would at least go some way to redressing the current imbalance.
Our legal system has pretty much monetized the various activities that constitute marriage and child rearing. You want to be recognized as a parent, you basically have to pay to play, and you still don't automatically get any package of rights "over" another human being.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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