LucyJ #fundie

LucyJ #fundie bbc.co.uk

To me, liberals stand for tolerance.

Tolerance includes:
marriage between two men or two women
marriage between cousins/relatives
marriage between dogs/cats/animals and humans
marriage between adults and children
marriage with multiple partners
giving citizenship to all people who come here legally and illegally
open borders and amnesty

To me conservatives stand for limited tolerance.

Limited tolerance includes:
marriage between man and wife
giving citizenship only to people who come here legally, following our laws and being pro-American, swearing allegience to our country
closed borders and no amnesty

74 comments

old comment by Rat of Steel

Tolerance includes:
marriage between two men or two women

You say that like it's a bad thing. Trust me, it's not.

marriage between cousins/relatives

Funny, how most of the states that allow first cousins to marry each other, are the states most strongly associated with the "Bible Belt". Incest sounds like your stereotype, not ours.

marriage between dogs/cats/animals and humans

While it's debatable whether non-human animals are able to give consent for sexual activity (personally, while bestiality squicks me considerably, I'm of the belief that animals have a lot less difficulty with the unspoken concept behind the word "no" than humans do; if an animal doesn't want you to fuck it, it will make its desire known, in all likelihood using teeth and claws), it's clear that non-human animals are unable to give consent to enter into a legally binding contract. Like it or not, that is exactly--no more, no less--what marriage is: a legal contract.

old comment by Rat of Steel

**CONTINUED**

marriage between adults and children

Slippery slope FTL! See animals example above. On the day it is demonstrated that a child (say for example, a pre-pubescent one) is able to enter into a legally binding contract of any sort....then, yes, adults and children can marry. Until then, take your pedophilic fantasies elsewhere, you wretched waste of sperm.

marriage with multiple partners

Again, you're saying that like it's a bad thing. As long as all involved are adults and all give their consent, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, I, as a staunch polyamorist, would be all for this.

giving citizenship to all people who come here legally and illegally

open borders and amnesty

Your conservative Presidents have done just as much to close up the leaky borders of this country as the more liberal ones have: absolutely fuck-all. The main difference is: for liberals, illegal immigrants represent cheap, easy votes, while for conservatives, they represent cheap, easy labor. In fact, your quasi-deity of a former President, Ronald Reagan, was more liberal regarding illegal immigration than President Obama has thus far been.

In summation, you have zero room to talk. Come back and try again when you have a leg on which to stand, mmm'kay?

old comment by Enigma32

marriage between cousins/relatives

Oh yes. That's why almost every Southern State has laws that allows for marriage of your first cousin, but almost no northern states. Damn them liberals in the south, writing our laws! Oh, wait...

marriage between dogs/cats/animals and humans

~~Dumbfuckistan~~ Texas has the laxest bestiality laws in the nation, second only to Alabama and Georgia. Take from that what you will.

Also: I seem to recall that one of your own admitted to screwing a goat...

marriage between adults and children

There you go again, projecting... damn, you people are really fucking sick.

marriage with multiple partners

Consent says "No problem." If they're happy together, and they're all consenting adults, it's none of your fucking business.

giving citizenship to all people who come here legally and illegally... open borders and amnesty

No, we want to fix the system. Kicking them all out, jackass, doesn't fix the system.

Limited tolerance includes:
marriage between man and wife
giving citizenship only to people who come here legally, following our laws and being pro-American, swearing ~~allegience~~ allegiance (lurn2spells, motherfucker) to our country
closed borders and no amnesty

Homophobia and Xenophobia FTL!

Aside: You didn't swear jackshit to this country, motherfucker. If anything, you're one of those bible-pushing sonsofbitches who want to replace our constitution with your fucking fantasy novel. Swear allegiance my ass.

old comment by Wehpudicabok

It is not the government's job to define marriage. It is the government's job to protect those who need it, and stay out of everyone else's way. "Those who need it" would, in the marriage case, be those who cannot give informed consent (children and animals). There is no reason except fear to outlaw any other form of marriage.

In the case of immigration, those who need it would be American citizens under suspicion of being illegal (mainly in Arizona), and legal immigrants who want a path to citizenship.

If you want your government to do anything more than protect those who need it, you need to strongly reconsider what you mean when you say you want less government. If you want someone to govern your sense of morality, that sounds like one hell of an intrusive authority to me.

old comment by Sylvana

"marriage between two men or two women"
Already available in a number of European countries and at least 1 African one.

"marriage between cousins/relatives"
Southern states in America have already legalized this

"marriage between dogs/cats/animals and humans"
As much as pet owners would like to do this, until a pet can provide informed consent this will never happen.

"marriage between adults and children"
This is depressingly legal in a number of Arabic states where women and girls are treated as property. In countries with equal rights though, until a child can provide informed consent this will not ever happen.
(Side note: in Indian nations, The legal age of marriage is very low, down to 14 years and lower. However these marriages are normally family arranged marriages)

"marriage with multiple partners"
This is legal in a number of African countries where the culture supports multiple wives.

"giving citizenship to all people who come here legally and illegally
open borders and amnesty"
I am trying to figure out what this has to do with anything

In short, all of those examples exist already. Being civilized people we can look at them and learn from them and implement them as best we can. The world wont end if everyone learns to be tolerant.

old comment by Mrs. Antichrist

Tolerance includes:
marriage between two men or two women

And this is a bad thing how?

marriage between cousins/relatives

If no one is being abused, neither is in an authority position over the other, their relationship began when they were consensual adults and they don't plan on producing any genetic offspring, I honestly don't give a shit if two relatives are fucking.

marriage between dogs/cats/animals and humans

Cats, dogs and other animals can't consent to marriage. Two gay adults can.

marriage between adults and children

Again, a child cannot consent to marriage and a sex with an adult.

marriage with multiple partners

And again, if everyone is consenting, all are comfortable with the arrangement, no one is being abuse or taken advantage of and both sexes are equally free to take on multiple partners, I really don't see the issue here.

giving citizenship to all people who come here legally and illegally

If they legally immigrate, they should be entitled to citizenship. And no, liberals don't support automatically giving citizenship to every illegal who enters the country. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

open borders and amnesty

Again, it's not as simple as that. Few people support letting everyone and anyone into the country. Amnesty SHOULD be granted in cases where someone's human rights are at stake, you asshole.

Jackass.

old comment by Swede

Nah, tolerance includes giving people the benefit of the doubt and space to be themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Marriage between cousins and other relatives is not allowed because they have too similar DNA. It might maim the offspring, which comes into the category of "hurting others".
Bestiality is wrong because beasts can't give informed consent.
As can't children, by the way.
Multiple partners is in the Bible, 'nuff said.

As to illegal aliens: We who are fortunate enough to be born into prosperous, (rather) peaceful countries have a responsibility to help those not as fortunate. We don't have any inherent RIGHT to our fortune and they have done nothing to deserve their misfortune.
Sorry, I left liberalism there and moved into socialism.
And, weren't the people on the Mayflower also illegal aliens? They didn't acquire a green-card before they sailed away from Southampton (or whatever harbor they sailed from).

old comment by Cy

I honestly worry about people who seem unable to grasp the necessity of CONSENT (and specifically informed, non-coerced consent) in marriage. How many of the ones who don't seem to understand that also fail to fully understand the concept of consent in matters such as sex?

That said, I support all marriages where the participants are able and willing to consent to that marriage. That excludes any marriages involving children or animals. It includes same-sex couples, multiple partners, and cousins. (In fact, without cousin marriage here in the UK, I wouldn't have a half-sister. A half-sister with two Oxbridge degrees, a high-paying job, and a husband and two children just as clever as she is. Oh, the stereotypes of cousin marriage, how they fail.)

I also support immigration as far as the country can sustain and help to integrate the growing population. How you can say to two people, "You, because you were born on this side of the line, will have access to clean water, enough food to eat, housing, healthcare, education; you will have many guaranteed rights under the laws of the land, and if you should fall into a bad situation there will be some form of government assistance or at the very least, charity. You, on the other hand, don't get any of that. You were born on the wrong side of the line."

old comment by Doubting Thomas

Tolerance doesn't include a slippery slope allowing marriage between anyone and anyone or everything.

As far as open borders, I'm against that. I'm still not sure about amnesty to anyone already here illegally. I do see absolutely nothing wrong with granting citizenship to anyone here legally. The fact that the OP does is telling.

But to me conservatives stand not for limited tolerance, but for total intolerance, which includes:

Not allowing equal rights to certain people because you disagree with their sexual practices.
Covert or overt racism toward certain people.
Hostility toward people who practice a different religion.

Not to mention being totally against the idea of helping out your fellow man, which is why the Republicans kept filibustering the bill extending unemployment benefits.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Rat of Steel

"Slippery slope FTL!"

Not so much slippery slope, more like a sheer drop, with fundies deliberately throwing themselves off the top (via everyting they say, do and think), with said drop further than Dubai's Burj Khalifa, down to the bottom of the extremely sharp & jagged rocks of the FAIL that is the P.R. of right-wing Fundamentalist Christianity, with the world's TV, radio & newspaper media (as well as web boards/blogs; FSTDT for one) there to witness their failure (and the credibility of their way of thinking becoming as two-dimensional as they do upon impact).

And there's a massive queue at the top of said sheer drop, of sheeple (lemmings don't actually throw themselves off cliffs; just an urban myth) wanting to do the same as LucyJ. With non-fundie Christians, Muslims et al, especially Unitarian Universalists & Quakers standing at the top, but far away from the edge, shaking their heads in despair for them.

old comment by Gloria

marriage between two men or two women

The relationships of consenting adults not involving myself are not my concern. (Unless they involve someone who's going to come to me with his/her broken heart if/when it ends, but the gender of those involved has little to do with that.)

marriage between cousins/relatives

The relationships of consenting adults not involving myself, are not my concern. Similarly, the potential genetic pitfalls of reproduction for families not involving myself are also not my concern.

marriage between dogs/cats/animals and humans

Since it is widely understood that animals cannot give informed consent, this would be a no.

marriage between adults and children

Since it is widely understood that children cannot give informed consent, this would be a no.

marriage with multiple partners

You mean like Jacob? Elkanah? Solomon? Clearly God would never approve of such a family...

giving citizenship to all people who come here legally and illegally

Not quite. I think you should give citizenship only to those who come legally, but should first make it a heck of a lot easier TO come legally.

open borders and amnesty

Sounds good to me.

old comment by CanadianBroad

Well! Ain't you the caring-est person just, like, ever!?!?!

</saarcasm>

How, do tell me, really, does your reasoning take you from "2 adults consent to marry, and then get married" to "then everyone could marry close relatives, animals, kids, Fundies, etc"?

Are you (ahem, cough) speaking from personal experience? Did Uncle-Dad make you "marry" the family pony? Did your moms make you "marry" multiple partners on Family GangBang night?

What's deal, LucyJ? are you an abused child from Alabama or West Virginia? (of which state I admit to having heard - all the way up here in Canada: "W. Virginia: five million people, 14 last names" ... Bigoted? Well, maybe a li'l tiny bit).

Or are you just deranged?

I really have nothing much against "group marriages" or even polygamy if it is consented to by adults? I imagine the tax and benefits people would have collective aneurysms, but really - why should the rest of us care?

LucyJ #fundie bbc.co.uk

74 comments

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