Rev. Greg Haslam #fundie

Rev. Greg Haslam #fundie bbc.co.uk

As a philosophy, evolutionism has had proven evil influences on human happiness and welfare.

It is the root cause of such political philosophies as Atheism, Naturalism, Marxism, Statism, Socialism, and Nazism.

The 20th Century alone has spawned conflicts that have led to the loss of millions of lives. Darwin's theories are the root justification for such practices as racism, eugenics, abortion and euthanasia, practiced by Hitler, Stalin and Mao - all "intellectually fulfilled atheists" themselves.

51 comments

old comment by Fawful has seen God has a vagina on top of his penis

Marxism came before the theory of evolution and has nothing to do with it. Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not communists (those last two are actually oportunists and in my personal opinion, traitors) nor atheists for that matter (reference: http://www.infidels.eu/Violence). Eugenics (which both Hitler and to some extent Stalin believed) is the exact opposite of evolution and Darwin's books were banned both in Stalinist USSR and Nazi Germany. As a future historian and trotskyist I find this offensive. Then again, I'm not new here, so what the hell.

Oh, and finally, evolutionism is not a philosophy, has never been nor will ever be. That's just some bullshit strawman you pulled out of your ass (I can see what he means by it, but only people like him believe in such nonsense). The only thing he was right was with evolution being linked with Naturalism (the literary movement), although this came much later.

old comment by Wehpudicabok

The shit you people say...

There is no such philosophy as "evolutionism." There is no such thing! Evolution is a scientific principle, nothing more.

I will grant you that evolution, as a scientific explanation for natural phenomena, has been influential in some philosophical thought. Atheism and naturalism both predate the modern theory of evolution, but it is true that the positions are now more plausible since we can't say "well obviously God was responsible for creating these amazing things called 'humans,' and 'horses,' and 'cockroaches.' "

But the rest of those have nothing to do with evolution! Marxism was a response to the subjugation of the lower class under the Industrial Revolution. Socialism evolved out of that. Nazism is just the most racist form of fascism with a socialist cover story, and "statism" is just a vague term for political ideologies that grant the government more powers than most. None of these has anything to do with evolution in any way!

"Darwin's theories are the root justification for such practices as racism, eugenics, abortion and euthanasia"

Racism, abortion and euthanasia have existed for millennia! Do you honestly not know that? Do you think there was no racism before Darwin? If so you are a moron beyond redemption. And eugenics was based on a misinterpretation of evolution. If we subscribe to evolution as it actually exists, then the "bad genes" in our society will disappear automatically, without us doing anything about it. That's what natural selection is. If we're doing something about it (i.e. eugenics) it isn't natural! That's like shooting down a plane and then saying you were "upholding gravity."

Lastly, Hitler was not an atheist but a Catholic, and while Stalin and Mao were indeed atheists, the reason they committed these atrocities is because they were insane and power-hungry, not irreligious.

old comment by Papabear

"As a philosophy, evolutionism has had proven evil influences on human happiness and welfare."

What the heck is "evolutionism?" As a philosophy the ToE fails utterly because IT IS NOT A PHILOSOPHY!

"It is the root cause of such political philosophies as Atheism, Naturalism, Marxism, Statism, Socialism, and Nazism."

Atheism pre-dates every other ism as everyone is born an atheist.

Naturalism? Believing in nature? Isn't that the ism your lot like so much when talking about how un-natural homosexuality is?

Statism? What the heck is that?

Marxism pre-dates the ToE. And, Marxism, socialism and Nazism have nothing to do with the ToE.

"The 20th Century alone has spawned conflicts that have led to the loss of millions of lives. Darwin's theories are the root justification for such practices as racism, eugenics, abortion and euthanasia, practiced by Hitler, Stalin and Mao - all "intellectually fulfilled atheists" themselves."

Uh, no. Racism is tribalism run amok, nothing related to the ToE.

Eugenics is humans trying to take the place of natural selection. Related to evolution but not advocated by anyone how understands how poor many human selections can be.

Abortion and euthanasia are not practiced as some expression of the ToE. That Hitler or others used abortion and eutanasia against their political enemies doesn't make the ToE at fault for their actions.

P.S. Hitler was a Christian. And, how do you know that Stalin and/or Mao were "intellectually fulfilled?"

old comment by Alencon

What a mess. Let's just do a list:

1. Evolution is not a philosophy
2. Evolution has no "proven" evil influences on anything
3. Evolution is not the "root cause" of Atheism. Disbelief in a diety is the root cause.
4. Evolution is not the "root cause" of Naturalism. Empirical observation is the root cause.
5. Evolution is not the "root cause" of Marxism. Indistrialization is the root cause.
6. Evolution is not the "root cause" of Socialism. Economic inequality is the root cause.
7. Evolution is not the "root cause" of Nazism. Nationalism is the root cause.
8. Hitler was not an Atheist. He was a Roman Catholic Christian.
9. Darwin's theory, not theories, have nothing to do with racism, eugenics, abortion or euthanasia as practiced by anyone. And, even if it did, that has no effect upon whether the Theory of Evolution is correct or not (simple evolution, descent with modification, is an observable fact).
10. Rev. Greg Haslam is a moron.

old comment by D Laurier

As a philosophy, evolutionism still does not exist.

Despite the fact that atheism dates back to the dawn of human civilization, naturalism is the study of nature, marxism is an economic model, and the rest have been found to exist despite your "evolutioism" still not existing.

Except that Darwin's one and only theory cannot be used to justify racim, eugenics, abortion or euthanasia. Hitler was a christian, and there seems to be nothing to suggest that either Stalin or Mao were "intelectualy fulfilled".
Nor were any of them medical doctors, o no, they did not practice abortion. Indeed Hitler himself forced strict laws forbiding abortion.
Mao and Stalin both rejected the notion of "race", and so could not practice" racism.
Hitler approved of eugenic policys, but so did Churchill, Rosevelt, and DuGaul.

Care to try again.

old comment by

As a philosophy, evolutionism doesn't exist.

It is sometimes blamed for several movements which actually predate it, including Atheism, Naturalism, Statism, and Socialism, and others which have no causal relationship with it, such as Marxism and Nazism. The fact that the USSR and NSDAP both banned Darwin's work is no impediment to this.

Darwin is also blamed for practices which predate him such as racism, abortion, eugenics and euthanasia. These were practiced by people who denied the validity of his ideas, such as Hitler, Stalin and Mao, so there is obviously no connection; however, we do observe from this that denial of valid science is embraced by totalitarians.

old comment by Hasan Prishtina

I'm not sure what "evolutionism" is, but I presume it has something to do with acceptance of the theory of evolution.

It is the root cause of such political philosophies as Atheism, Naturalism, Marxism, Statism, Socialism, and Nazism.

Though the ancients had ideas concerning evolution, I guess that Mr Haslam is thinking of Darwin. Of the political philosophies he mentions, Atheism, Naturalism, Marxism and Socialism are all known to have existed before the theory of evolution.

Statism is just a political term meaning 'state control,' first used in 1919. That leaves us with Nazism. Nazism did include a strong element of Social Darwinism - but that is rather different from Darwinism. How would Mr Haslam react if I suggested Social Democracy was the same as Democracy?

old comment by Horsefeathers

"As a philosophy, evolutionism has had proven evil influences on human happiness and welfare."

"Evolutionism" isn't a philosophy, you moron. It's not even a word.

"It is the root cause of such political philosophies as Atheism, Naturalism, Marxism, Statism, Socialism, and Nazism."

Yeah, right. Sure it is.

Do you make this shit up yourself, or is there some sort of Conspiracy Monthly subscription that people like you have?

old comment by farpadokly

Atheism- not a political philosophy. Naturalism- not a political philosophy. Both predate Darwin.
Root cause of Marxism: Hegel. Materialism.
Statism: predates Darwin. In fact goes back to the ancient world.
Socialism: predates Darwin. Very active from the 18th century on as reaction to aristocracy and later, bourgeois capitalism.
Nazism: Nationalism. Racism. Imperialism. Social Darwinism applied to racism, which is a misreading of Darwin.
It is not Darwin's ideas that led to the things mentioned, but a MISUNDERSTANDING and DELIBERATE MISUSE of Darwin's ideas, coinciding with already existing racism and imperialism and nationalism.
Hitler: Not an atheist. A authoritarian racist and nationalist, not a Darwinist.
Stalin: An authoritarian communist and centralizing nationalist. "socialism in one country".
Mao: An authoritarian communist and centralizing nationalist.
Darwin's ideas may have been misused or misquoted, deliberately or naively, as were many other people's. That is not their fault.
The problems in the 20th century, that led to so many lives being lost, were: NATIONALISM, AUTHORITARIANISM, IMPERIALISM. Three things which the reactionary priest who wrote this is probably in favour of.

old comment by the good samaritan

Let's say you're right. In that case, religion, particularly the Christian religions, have been the root justification for such acts as genocide (throughout the Old Testament, such as the Amalekites), holy war (Crusades), torture (the Inquisition), and xenophobia, bigotry, and intolerance (too many examples to count).

If that's the case, and we're all so evil, maybe we should all just kill ourselves and save God some time? The point is, there is no flaw in ideology. It's people who muddle things up. There are terrible religious people, just as there are profoundly good atheists. The reverse also applies.

Oh, and finally, evolution is a scientific principle, not an ideology. So your argument is flawed in that way as well.

Stay classy, Reverend.

Rev. Greg Haslam #fundie bbc.co.uk

51 comments

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