There’s a great deal of ridicule being aimed at Pat Robertson for describing the catastrophic earthquake in Haiti as God’s retribution on the country for a deal with the Devil supposedly made by the leaders of the 1791 slave revolt in which they threw off French control. And Robertson is a foaming loon, to be sure—but when I dug for the source of the legend I found a curiously plausible account:
(links to http://www.americandaily.com/article/95 )
It is a matter of well-documented historical fact that the nation of Haiti was dedicated to Satan 200 years ago. On August 14, 1791, a group of houngans (voodoo priests), led by a former slave houngan named Boukman, made a pact with the Devil at a place called Bois-Caiman. All present vowed to exterminate all of the white Frenchmen on the island. They sacrificed a black pig in a voodoo ritual at which hundreds of slaves drank the pig’s blood. In this ritual, Boukman asked Satan for his help in liberating Haiti from the French. In exchange, the voodoo priests offered to give the country to Satan for 200 years and swore to serve him. On January 1, 1804, the nation of Haiti was born and thus began a new demonic tyranny.
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I'm willing to believe that the slaves turned to their African gods for help. I'm even OK with the idea that they tried to turn to the Christian god named Satan. (Satan is part of the Christian pantheon. He qualifies as a god by any test of godhood, just as Set and Loki do.) Where I draw the line is at saying that any of these gods are real, and are responsible for poverty, slavery, earthquakes or acne.
Um, read the whole blog entry. That second paragraph is a quote from someone else. He includes other quotes in an effort to get to the bottom of Pat Robertson's "deal with the devil" claim.
He ends with:
"To sum up, I strongly suspect that what actually happened was: a mass invocation of Ogun, Christian idiots hearing secondhand accounts mistaking it for Satanism , and the Haitians themselves later reinventing the story around Ezilie possibly under the influence of the French and American “Lady Liberty”. "
Say what you will about ESR, but I don't think he's very fundy. He admits he's not Christian, which matters in this case.
And Satan, just like your favorite comic book hero, the god GAY, is just that, fiction.
Haiti just happens to sit on a damn fault line, just like all of the west coast of USA, from San Diego to the Canadian border, called the San Andreas and the Cascadia fault lines.
It wasn't exactly a surprise that Haiti got hit by a big earthquake nor was it the first or last to hit and Haiti has been hit for millions of years before this stupid crap about pact with a fantasy figure came about.
So show us these historical documents. What's that? Got nothing but sanctimonious hearsay? Thought so. (Directed at the many actual fundies who are making this argument, not those like Raymond who are quoting to debunk.)
By the way, a deal made by a few hundred people could apply only to them, not others; and by your own reckoning, Haiti should have been back in God's hands for either six or 18 years. So we're back where we started: With selfish fundies trying to blame disaster victims for their own misfortune, thus supposedly absolving the "righteous" from giving any aid.
If this really happened then the deal would have ended in 1991 or 2004, however you want to look at it. Presumably the country would revert back to God's control, seeing as how 90% of the population is Christian.
Okay...I'm gonna suspend reality here for a quick sec. Assume you are right. Assume this isn't complete bullshit. Assume a few slaves perfomred some Satanic (read: Non-Christian) ritual to free themselves from the oppression of the French. How does one man sell off an entire country, and an entire people? And how do you balance this with Jesus' stance with the whole "sins of the father" thing?
OK, just for the hell of it, let's say that's true.
Why not punish THOSE people, and not wait more than 200 years and kill people -- including children -- who had fuck-all to do with the supposed Devil pact?
Oh, and tell me that one about your "just" god again while you're at it.
"(voodoo priests)"
so not Satan then. Traditional African voodoo contains no reference to Satan. Drinking animal blood has been part of voodoo culture for millennia.
So if you take all the Christian slant off the article, and perhaps write more than one fucking paragraph, perhaps mention "Lwa", and the complete lack of satanism, it might become plausible.
The true deal with the devil is the face that France essentially charged Haiti 150 million francs (later reduced to 60 million) in exchange for independence. Haiti took out loans from French and American bankers, the repayment of which took up some 80% of their budget and which were not paid off until 1947.
Yes, they made a deal with the devil, and that devil is us....
(note: any Google search for the terms of Haitian independence will confirm the above, for those of you seeking a real citation)
Well, even if all that is true and there really is a Satan with whom they might have made a pact. You described it as a 200 year deal starting in 1804. That means the pact ended in 2004 and that this recent event was completely unrelated.
By your own stupid argument this had nothing to do with the so-called divine.
200 + 1804 =/= 2010
just saying
Most Haitian practitioners of Voudun, then and now, are also Christian.
This blogger is not part of the "deal with the devil" lunatic fringe.
EPIC out-of-context fail.
I'm pretty sure that voodoo is a completely different religion unrelated to Christianity, and thus has nothing to do with your concept of "Satan."
In other words, you're full of shit and that account is not "plausible" at all.
And there I was thinking it was just those pesky tectonic plates moving around and Haiti just being unfortunate enough to be dirt poor and in the wrong place. Still if it gives the old fart another opportunity to prove how utterly unChristian he actually is, let the old bastard's true colours shine for all to see. He'll be dead soon enough.
And there I was thinking it was just those pesky tectonic plates moving around and Haiti just being unfortunate enough to be dirt poor and in the wrong place. Still if it gives the old fart another opportunity to prove how utterly unChristian he actually is, let the old bastard's true colours shine for all to see. He'll be dead soon enough.
"It is a matter of well-documented historical fact..."
Which isn't a fact at all, just something you've pulled out of yer crack. I know this cause it still stinks.
I am actually surprise this was approved, this one of the weaker quotes I had submitted.
To who ever said this:
"Some "plausible" account. All the references on the article are christian sites/publications."
Thank you, someone noted that the deranged ramblings of a fundy are not historically accurate in any way, shape or form. It is ultimately ironic that ESR calls one fundy a foaming loon only to quote another as plausible historical account. Especially concerning the practices of a religion other than Christianity.
Since neither voodoo gods and demons, nor Satan exist, the whole story is still bullshit and it's ignorant to bring it up now as justification for a natural occurrence that has devastated the island.
This is the 21st Century, ferfucksakes.
Assume this crock of bullshit is true. You're saying Satan freed slaves and granted independence to a nation, then God killed descendants of those slaves 200 years later?
Remind me again. Who is more evil, Satan or God?
One article does not research make.
And if that fact's so well known, how come I've never heard of it? And how come Haiti is predominantly Christian?
This is a bit second-hand; surely the American Daily page should be the primary reference, not ESR's mention of it?
For one thing, that article is dated 2004, i.e., 200 years after Haitian independence; and alleges (second-hand) that for the last 206 years "they" had been making sacrifices every August 14. (I put "they" in quotes because I couldn't figure out who "they" were).
Slavery is a horrid institution. Even if Satan was real, and the Haitians did make a pact with him, at least he helped them escape slavery.
Am I to suppose it was the moral, Christian thing to do for the Haitains to remain slaves and obey their French masters?
Ok, as some one who is studying Haitian Vodou, this person is partially right, there was a meeting where the rebels met and vowed to get rid of the white slaveowners, however, they didn't make a pact with the "Devil" or at least not by Christian standards. They did, however, petitioned the help of a Lwa by the name of Ezuli Dantor. From what I remember of her, she is a warrioress and from the Petwo Nation who are usually "hot" spirits. The major sacrifices to her usually consists of a black pig which is her favorite. Sacrifices of this nature are only done by houngan or mambo and usually in dire situations or major ceremonies and celebrations such as her feast days.
The thing is that most people (fundies) do not understand or know exactly what Vodoun consists of and it has been marginalized by people like Eric S. Raymond and RR.
Boukman Dutty was a Jamaican, not a Haitian. And the Haitians didn't "kick the French" out. They were charged 90 million gold francs, the principal and interest on which was over half the country's national budget.
"200 years ago"
God seems to be slow on the uptake, even if that BS were true, which is suspect, based on the bias likely present in your sources. Of course it fits in perfectly with his tendencies to punish unsuspecting descendants for the crimes of their fathers.
@Imroy The fact that he finds the account "curiously plausible" opens ESR up for ridicule.
*Sigh* Eric Raymond used to be one of the guiding lights of open software ... was he always a gun-crazy right-wing loon?
In that case, if all these alleged statements are true, then said Satanic pact ended in either 1991, or 2004...
As a result, why has it taken God, either 19 or 6 years after said alleged pact expired, & as a result, became "Non-Satanic", to smite Haiti with a earthquake...?
Methinks that Mr Raymond needs a quick course in either History or Logic, before he posts on this topic again...
"There’s a great deal of ridicule being aimed at Pat Robertson"
And he deserves every bit of it. If he doesn't want to be ridiculed, he should keep his evil, right-wing fundie pie-hole shut.
Actually, the WHITE French plantation owners in Haiti first rebelled against France, when the French revolutionaries back home abolished slavery in 1791 - much like like somebody else did in America a few decades later.
Later, Napoleon got the island back by making slavery legal again. Only THEN did blacks kill whites.
They proceeded to dismantle the plantations and divide the land in small plots, which made them stuck in subsistence agriculture, unlike their neighbours in the Dominican Republic, who kept cash crops and now live in a lower-middle income country.
Having a half century long US-sponsored dictatorship that deliberately promoted voodoo superstitions and pocketed off a shitload of money sure didn't help, either.
You see, the model works well enough without that god-variable of yours.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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