There's a fourth possibility nobody seems to be considering. Trial by ordeal worked. God would truly see to it that the guilty failed and the innocent passed.
It wasn't until we started turning our backs on God and disbelieved that it could work that it failed. If you don't believe then God will not help you.
We should bring back trial by ordeal. It is the best, most impartial way to solve a case. It allows God to speak and God knows all. If you are innocent you have nothing to fear from trial by ordeal so long as you believe.
66 comments
Actually, that would be pretty cool.
Make the accused run through a maze full of swinging axes and randomly-released rolling boulders. If he makes it out the other side, he's clearly just as innocent as Indiana Jones was.
Right, like accused witches were tried by ordeal. If they float (or even dare to swim), they are guilty of witchcraft and must be burned at the stake or hanged until dead. If they sink and drown, they're innocent (and dead anyway).
Yeah, that method has no flaws in it whatsoever. (*eyeroll*)
I hope this was just a sarcastic poe post; otherwise, this idiot clearly doesn't even have the wits of an average 12-year-old.
Like Jeanne d'Arc? Who is a freaking Saint?
Cause God can be kind of a dick when he sends people to die for him?
Cause everyone knows witches float... Thats why we must build a bridge out of them!
Its bloody torture. I can make you say you are Elvis if you had the time....
"Can we start with you?"
Excellent point. They should be willing endure the same ordeals as the ones they want to impose on others. It encompasses both "Do unto others..." as well as "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I'll get the cement mixer warmed up, let's start making some concrete shoes.
"Trial by ordeal worked."
Well, if you set someone on fire, they WILL burn. Unless they have skin made of asbestos.
MONKS: [chanting]
So according to your theory, anyone that is physically incapable of handling your ordeal is a sinner?
You do know that this was stopped because it was cruel and unusual punishment, that didn't decide anything.
And if your God is so fucking powerful, he can speak for himself.
I'm so sick of these fucking bastards, I can't deal with this anymore today.
Of course, this would be totally useless, as there goes the "justice is blind" thing. If you're atheist, agnostic, wiccan, polytheistic, or whatever, you're fucked innocent or not.
Good thing you're wrong and this will never happen...I HOPE it'll never happen....
OK ServantofChrist -- we'd like you to prove your faith via Russian Roulette with a shotgun. Surely you wont get both barrels painting the wall with your unused brains unless God decrees this is good?
You want to prove your faith don't you?
You want to please God don't you?
Don't forget to make all your family and friends watch!
"Trial by ordeal worked. God would truly see to it that the guilty failed and the innocent passed."
OK. I accuse you of being a gay, atheist witch. Now shall it be the ducking pole or burning at the stake? Remember, "If you are innocent you have nothing to fear from trial by ordeal so long as you believe."
"Mr Smith, you appear before this court today, and before Lord God Almighty, charged with a breach of the county's laws. To determine your innocence- or guilt- you will be required to walk across these blazing coals. If your heart is free of sin you shall not be harmed, but if all-seeing God knows of your rapscallious ways, your feet shall burn upon the flames and we shall charge you to the full extent of the law! Now step upon the coals Mr Smith!"
...
"On second thoughts, I was double parked, wasn't I? Forget the appeal, i'll write you a check for the thirty quid."
Vampirehummingbird wins an internet simply for leaving the longest commment i've ever seen on this site.
...Basically, God will protect you only if you believe. Some egotistical snot you worship there.
Sorry I exploded there, but I felt it needed to be said.
So if the accused murderer weighs as much as a duck, as long as he believes, he's innocent, no matter how much scientific evidence points to his guilt?
Good job.
As the crusaders were killing the heretic Cathars some of the soldiers worried that they might kill the innocent by mistake. They were told by their priests, "Kill them all, God will know his own." (except he said it in Latin)
Trial by ordeal, simply put, means you are dead. If you survive the first attempt, they will be outraged by your tenacity to life, and call it witchery, and proceed to kill you harder. They need only the flimsiest excuse to brutalize the heathen.
There will always be perverts who get jazzed by that. Many prolific perverts throughout history had some sort of religion behind them.
"There's a fourth possibility nobody seems to be considering."
There is a reason they're not considering it.
(HINT: IT'S ASS-BACKWARDS AND UTTERLY RETARDED)
I like that comment from a babylon 5 episode :
"A fair world would be terrible, because then, everybody would get what they deserve."
Think very strongly about what you're wishing for...
Throw you in a river with your hands and feet bound.
if you sink and drown, you are innocent.
if you fight and swim, you are guilty.
Let me put a branding iron in the shape of a cross in a fire until it glows red hot
Now I place it on your bare back.
If you scream in agony, you are guilty.
Sound familiar? It was using during the witch trials to show who was guilty or innocent.
You are so fucked in the head.
I call Poe. Why? Look at the guy's reply to this remark:Hey Servantofchrist, I hereby officially (and anonymously) accuse you of the act of heresy and treason of the high church. At noon you will be judged by fire. If you are innocent, you will not suffer the flames o' righteousness. If you are indeed guilty and an agent of the devil, you will perish 'neath the flames of holy fire. Sound familiar dumbass?
Sounds fair. I am a faithful servant of God and of the church. If that actually happened I know God would spare me, because I am innocent.
What evidence do you have that trial by ordeal wouldn't work? There's not a single case where someone was judged innocent or guilty in a trial by ordeal and then the verdict was proven wrong. If there is please bring it up.
As for cortisol levels. Sounds like God is raising the cortisol levels to cause people not to heal as fast.
Ok, so wasn't Jesus the one who told the Devil, when he was in the dessert, that you should not tempt God?. Man, he has 6 billion people to take care of in the world.
"Mr Smith, you appear before this court today, and before Lord God Almighty, charged with a breach of the county's laws. To determine your innocence- or guilt- you will be required to walk across these blazing coals. If your heart is free of sin you shall not be harmed, but if all-seeing God knows of your rapscallious ways, your feet shall burn upon the flames and we shall charge you to the full extent of the law! Now step upon the coals Mr Smith!"
Can't I plead the fifth?
Apparently during ServantofChrist's impressive fundi home schooling, important historical information was omitted, such as the witch trials and the inquisition.
I'm screwed, not only do I have a few moles and a birthmark, but I can swim dammit!
There's a fourth possibility nobody seems to be considering. Trial by ordeal worked. Allah would truly see to it that the guilty failed and the innocent passed.
It wasn't until we started turning our backs on Allah and disbelieved that it could work that it failed. If you don't believe then Allah will not help you.
We should bring back trial by ordeal. It is the best, most impartial way to solve a case. It allows Allah to speak and Allah knows all. If you are innocent you have nothing to fear from trial by ordeal so long as you believe.
Fixed.
Following your logic, if God intervenes so much and mingles in human affaires, why did he allowed his son to be killed like a lamb?, yes, I know that it was part of his plan but.........well, according to you, he has to mingle in every single thing. Moreover, why doesn't he finish off and there is no more crime, death, famine..........?, moreover, why do good and believing people suffer?, is God enraged against them or making a trial?. Either God intervenes or not. You can't have it both ways.
"There's a fourth possibility nobody seems to be considering. Trial by ordeal worked. God would truly see to it that the guilty failed and the innocent passed."
If this was the case then god wouldn't need your fucking help. He'd just smite people. Maybe he already does and you're just too blind and faithless to see it happening right in front of you.
First of all, how can you complain that natural selection is an "immoral theory", and then suggest trial by ordeal as a social policy?
Second, I challenge you to a "debate", about the existence of god, hand to hand.(jeez I wish I could post a picture of myself: Unlike most people on the internets who claim to be, I actually am 6'6" and 300lbs)
SOC,
Not according to the bible. There you are told to not put the Lord to the test...
So do you believe one part, and not the other?
I like this idea. What we do is get this guy, find out what he's innocenet of, and use him to ensure that the tests are fair.
"We accuse you of child molestation"
Sure. Good old fashion trial by ordeal.
We'll tie your leg to a post, give you a stick, and set two Jaguar Warriors, two Eagle Warriors and a left-handed warrior armed with macuahuitl on you, and we'll see who Xipe Totec, Our Lord the Flayed One, favors.
Good people have died through terrible ordeals and, besides, God is not going to be ever present in every single trial held in the world, as if he were a civil servant. In fact, do you remember when the Devil tempted Jesus in the dessert and he suggested something like that?. I feel that if you read it, you're not going to like it.
@cyborgtroy
I bet ServantofChrist would be the one to make the nose. [/"Monty Python and the Holy Grail"]
God turned Newt Gingrich into all but an adulterer.
...he didn't get better.
@#417676
"Ok, so wasn't Jesus the one who told the Devil, when he was in the dessert, that you should not tempt God?."
Oh, I dunno. A Black Forest Gateau would be enough for me to fall off the wagon; just sayin'! X3
You mean like when they threw supposed witches in a lake; if the floated, they were guilty and burned at the stake, if not they were innocent and drowned.
First, you have to prove, to everyone's satisfaction, that there really are deities, and that your particular god does exist.
I would consider it if SoC could address a few points satisfactory:
- Explain Christian martyrs.
Anyone know of the bitter water ordeal from Numbers? Some hypothesized that it could have been the forced administration of an abortifacient. A way for "God" to indicate if the woman, accused of infidelity by her husband, was guilty. However Biblical, in any case, that would be considered savagery and superstitious today. But if it's an abortifacient, why do people complain about abortion? It's in the Bible, "divinely" sanctioned! Well I'm not advocating for a revival of that ordeal either.
It was the best way to kill many innocents, while giving a gullible public an illusion that some justice was being done. But more importantly, an instrument of fear. Even if you're not guilty, you could pass through it. It's also torture.
Excellent Monty Python references :)
Confused?
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