In the Bible God opposed the slavery in ancient Egypt as being oppressive to his people (and as something that honored the Egyptian gods). Other times, when the Israelites turned their back on God, he turned them over to other nations to become slaves. So it seems God "supports" slavery when it is justified and "condemns" slavery when it becomes too unjust.
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That's why the issue of morality of "slavery" is not as black and white as you want to make it seem.
Are you fucking serious?
IF "freedom" (whatever the quotations are supposed to indicate i'm not sure) is moral?
Slavery is justifiable?
Freedom is arbitrary and ambiguous? I'd like to hear what you'd have to say if you were imprisoned unjustly. Bet your tune would change mighty quick.
Slavery is wrong, PERIOD. If you don't see that you are in no position to explain morals to anyone.
Of course it's black and white: no human has any right under any circumstances to treat another human as property. It's evil, twisted and immoral, and if Shiki Dan can't see this, then he really needs to rethink his basis for morality.
In the Bible, God committed the murder of every first born son in Egypt as being necessary to punish the Pharaoh (and as something that honored the Bible God). Other times, when Abraham was ordered to murder his only remaining son, He gave Abraham a ram instead and spared the son. So it seems God "supports" murder when it is justified and "condemns” murder when it becomes too unjust.
There now - it's fixed! [sarcasm off]
Wait, are you hinting that slaves in ancient Israel were not opressed?, double standards award. OF COURSE THEY WERE. They were property, EXACTLY AS IN EGYPT.
Shiki is possibly referring to (Exod. 21:2)- "When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt."
"In the Bible God opposed the slavery in ancient Egypt as being oppressive to his people (and as something that honored the Egyptian gods). Other times, when the Israelites turned their back on God, he turned them over to other nations to become slaves. So it seems God "supports" slavery when it is justified and "condemns" slavery when it becomes too unjust."So, your position is that slavery is sometimes "just?" If your God was anything more than an imaginary being, that would make him a grade "A" asshole. As God is a fiction, YOU are the asshole.
"That's why the issue of morality of "slavery" is not as black and white as you want to make it seem."
You can try twisting it and bending it and looking at it from odd angles, Shitty Dan, but slavery is simply wrong.
"To say that anytime you take away someone's "freedom" is unjust is ignorant because "freedom" is a very arbitrary and ambiguous term."
Certianly, there are different types and extents of freedom, and depriving a guilty person of some freedoms as a punishment can be justifiable, however, enslavement is wrong.
You can't really believe that every last person enslaved by the Israelites was guilty and every last Israelite enslaved by the Egyptians was innocent.
Also, modern historians and archeologists have shown that the "Egyptian captivity" naver actually happened.
"And that's not even taking into consdieration if "freedom" is neccessarily moral."
Go ahead, Shitty, put forth a well-founded, convincing argument showing that freedom is not "moral." Remener that "morality" is a very arbitrary and ambiguous term, and many of us do not accept your imaginary friend's supposed commandments, laws and rules concerning "morality."
So it seems God "supports" slavery when it is justified and "condemns" slavery when it becomes too unjust. never justified. It's that simple. (Besides, your reasoning there is circular - God supports it because it's justified because God supports it because ... )
Buffalo: Willing to let go of rational morality? Heck, that's what fundies seem to best all the time! But as for giving up their freedom, I'm sure that if it came right down to it, we'd find that they're only willing to sacrifice OTHER PEOPLE's freedom -- unless, by "slave," this poster is thinking only in terms of the mild, modern, kinky variety.
As a reading of the Bible goes, it seems pretty legit to me (please note my utter lack of theological background other than having actually read the thing).
The God of the Bible is utterly authoritarian, and to those who accept this God as the definer of morality, freedom is indeed immoral, and slavery is good if it imposes God's rules on everyone.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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