I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance.
86 comments
And your tax fraud was also "accidental ignorance"? Probably, you've proved many times you don't know what you're doing Kent.
Edit: on rereading: You're a fucking idiot Kent, if you knew the first thing about biology you'd know that for fermentation all you need is water and sugar. There is enough yeast floating around in the air to ferment any kind of juice exposed to open air for a while and then left alone to ferment.
Kent this is science. Science doesn't accept believe, only evidence. Since you claimed you have no proof, just skip along and go play with the other special people okay, the grown ups are busy.
Yo, fool. Science doesn't work that way. And you could never prove anything that you spout, obviously.
"Accidental ignorance" sounds like the new fundie catch-all.
If you seriously believed this, you would be willing to test it. Sink a glass dome underwater to whatever depth you think this "canopy"(lol) was thick, trap an air bubble under it and try fermenting some wine. I mean if this was an actual credible theory, you'd do it to prove us wrong.
Of course the same canopy of water overhead also made it too dark for plants to live, and caused high pressure which raised the temperature to only a few thousand degrees centigrade.
No plant life, and no liquid water. (or non-liquid stone)
Hello Kent - you are fooling around with Holy Writ. If words mean anything then Noah was drunk as a boiled owl, and whatever may have been the fault, it was his. So stop your special pleading for a mythological personage.
Anyone this stupid should be incarcerated.
What? Oh, never mind, justice is served.
@Martin
I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk.
At ths I spt my drik al ovr my lap, igana, and kybard. I ned a new kybard.
Hm, so he's unfamiliar with the concept of yeast, huh? Must be one of those temperance types from the 19th century that tried to make bread rise with flash-heating alone... seriously, you should see some of the temperance propaganda from those days. It was a big impetus for the creation of quick breads -- the Prohibition crowd was that afraid of alcohol.
I heard someone suggest that beer, not wine, was the beverage of choice in those days.
Me, I'd stick to fermented goat's milk.
werewolf:
In much of the Middle East, probably. But viticulture would have been well-established in Bronze Age Palestine (might have even been brought with the Sea Peoples, at least some of whom were Greek) and beer would probably have been associated with the Egyptians, who evidently the Hebrews (at least the Judahites) were not fans of, and the Assyrians, who were constantly breathing down their necks, toying with their sovereignty. Wine would have set them apart, and given that there was a good five-plus centuries between the Exodus (such as it was) and the events of Kings and Chronicles, when the Torah was begun, it's entirely possible that beer had long since disappeared from the Hebrew culture, and replaced by wine in all the old folklore.
It would be interesting to see what, if anything, Utnapishtim or Ziusudra got blasted off of after the flood in Sumerian and Akkadian mythology...
What, and god didn't bother to put a warning label on his grape juice? BTW, I've changed the laws of chemistry, just so you know...
I guess you guys are lucky he didn't have any bleach under his sink.
Wait, so he couldn't have made wine according to you, but some how made grape juice and got drunk off of it as if it were wine?
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
Curses on you, Brian X!
I just tossed that in because I got that tidbit from a long-ago lecture on Bronze Age viticulture. Now you have tickled my interest and I have to go and satisfy my curiosity.
I was so looking forward to studying the Battle of Sekigahara...
And then, of course, it the other famous incident of wine, drunkenness and 'accidental ignorance'. Lot and his two daughters were living in a cave and no man around. On sequential nights each of the daughters got the old man drunk and fucked him. The result was the double blessing of two pregnancies. 'Accidental ignorance' my arse. This tale is bought to you by Genesis 19:30-38.
"I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible."
When the earth used to be a snow globe, the laws of physics worked different. For sure. Bubba wants you to take your meds, and start biting that pillow.
he believes so much
he knows so little
All other arguments about Hovind's ignorance of science aside...
How the hell did a canopy of water stay afloat? I mean, what about, oh, GRAVITY?
I can guarantee the answer is something like, "Uh... goddidit."
Have you got Bro Randy in the slammer with you, Kent?
He was dribbling on about something similar a couple of months ago.
Has anybody even looked at Kent's "dissertation?" this thing is worse than an undergraduate paper. No, I take that back, it's worse than a fourth grader's paper. It has obvious plagiarism, worse grammar and spelling, and is total BS just to get it approved from a diploma mill.
What I don't get is why this is a mishegoss of only American fundies. Even evangelicals in other countries don't try to get their knickers in a twist about alcohol -- it's strictly an American conceit.
werewolf:
Don't forget, that was all speculation on my part. But it would be a very interesting line of study.
jsonitsac
I thought Patriot University wouldn't make Kent Hovind's thesis available? If you know of a internet source pleeeese publish it here, I'm sure we'd all love to read it and make it more widely available!
Incidentally, if I was Noah and I'd just spent eighty (or a hundred and fifty) days cooped up with two (or five or seven) of ever kind of animal in a big wooden box with only one tiny window for ventilation, I think the first thing I'd do on stepping ashore would be to get pissed, too.
Well...considering that a dense canopy of water vapor sufficient to cover the surface of the planet with 9 or 10 klicks of water once it finally condensed would have driven the pressure and temperatures at the surface of the planet up to levels far higher than on present-day Venus, Hovind is actually correct for once. But not for the reasons he thinks.
Fermentation wouldn't be possible, because there wouldn't be any living yeast to cause fermentation. Or grapes to ferment. Or anything else, for that matter. Earth would be dead as a hammer.
Holy crap Kent! How... how are you doing that? It's impossible! How do you manage to bend over backwards making your theories line up, while at the same time allowing your cell mate to bend you over forwards? Why I do believe it's... shout Glory, it's a miracle!
I don't even know what he's talking about. I don't remember much alcohol reference in that story, but I don't masturbate to the bible like some fundies.
Actually, Kent, you've struck a fundamental truth here. Bullshit, by its very nature, cannot be proven, because it's simply bullshit. And that's that.
"...and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance."
As opposed to your willful ignorance of something as fundamental as fermentation! Lack of sunlight? I knew the basics of fermentation while still in GRADE SCHOOL!!
Well, in Europe we don't give a danm about alcohol, it's true, not even Muslims. However, the problem with Kent Hovind is that he's not addressing to a mainstream audience. Moreover, he's not even addressing to a middle-of-the-road and more or less observant moderate Christian audience. He's addressing to fundies, and sorry to generalise, but more often than not it includes complete ignorance of science.
Terrible choice for a fundie assertion - this particular one would be really easy to disprove with a transparent pressure vessel, a tank of water, some grape juice and a little yeast on a nice sunny afternoon.
Kent, unfortunately, will probably have to make do with making sangria in the terlet.
Here's an impression of me reading this post ...
'Oh goddammit why are people still approving these obvious poe posts. It's bringing this site down I mean listen to this bullshit it's obvious it's just some atheist making fun of .... ooooh, it's Kent Hovind, it all makes sense now.'
So the bible is literal until it's not? Oh, right, you're using it to suit your inborn prejudices and intellectual laziness. Honestly, you're such a tard.
You do realize there was no "vapor canopy," don't you? Water vapor is more of a greenouse gas than CO2 is, and the conditions you're talking about wuold have beeen like an oven. But don't take my word for it. Why don't you take a trip to Venus to see for yourself? It's much hotter than Mercury, even though it's further from the Sun.
What about Lot when he got so hammered that he shagged both his daughters? Too much grape juice?
Edit
Someone already beat me to the mention of Lot. But the question is: Were his daughters hot? And did they have large jugs (of wine)?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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