ibizian #fundie

ibizian #fundie topix.com

[after being told that America wasn't founded on christianity]

Why am I so wrong?? WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF?? Besides I am not saying these things they are quotes from other people, like this one!

" You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention." George Washington

Um so if THE founding father of our nation does specifically mention Jesus Christ where does that leave your arguement???

Go fight for a real cause and leave the Bible alone.

I'm activly doing something for the right to not care what you think or say..
What are you doing???????

41 comments

old comment by Jezebel's Evil Sister

Washington? George Washington? You mean the deist? The same guy who said this:

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
-- George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789, in Anson Phelps Stokes, Church and State in the United States, Vol 1. p. 495, quoted from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

And a whole bunch of similar statements (none endorsing christianity) at:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm

old comment by jmc

First, this quote is legitimate, but in this case Washington was repeating what the Delaware Indians said. Many Delaware had converted to Christianity through a local missionary and wanted Congressional funding for religious instruction. First Amendment non-establishment prohibitions do no apply to foreign powers, like Native American governments.

Second, if George Washington was such an evangelistic Christian why does he only use Christ's name in a couple of letters? He usually used "Great Spirit" or similar terms when dealing with Indians.

Third, many unitarians and deists considered themselves Christians. Thomas Jefferson called himself a Christian while rejecting the Trinity, the resurrection, original sin, eternal damnation, and many other Christian doctrines. Several founding fathers thought highly of Jesus' moral teachings and sought to spread those through society, but they rejected what they saw as illogical dogmas and superstitions.

Fourth and lastly, just because Christians were involved in the founding does not mean the United States is founded as a Christian nation. The available notes on the constitutional convention do not mention debates on the Bible, but we have discussions on the Roman Republic, Greek city-states, and European confederacies. The Federalist papers do not quote scripture to defend the Constitution. The founders did not debate verses but instead history, law, and the proper ordering of a civil society.

old comment by Antichrist

So a founding father mentioned Jesus Christ. So what? Doesn't mean that he wanted to shove his religious doctrines down everyone else's throats.

And he wasn't "THE" founding father. There was no ONE founding father.

And a quick note on the religious[ beliefs of the founding fathers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States

Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestants Constitutional Convention delegates, 28 were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch Reformed, and 2 were Methodists. Many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were vocal about their opposition to organized religion or anti-clerical, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson Bible"), Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine. However, a few of the more notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of traditional Deists, including Franklin, Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen.[12]

So quite the mix there, yet you want to claim your version as the all American version?

ibizian #fundie topix.com

41 comments

Confused?