jimmyjimmy #fundie

jimmyjimmy #fundie christianforums.com

[on the subject of healthcare]

God created the free market system. It's beauty is found in its simplicity and fairness. Two parties engage in a free exchange. Both get what they desire, as they trade what they want less for what they want more.

People have become very confused about what rights are. They often speak of commodities as "rights"; however, we know that nothing that can be purchased is a right.

32 comments

old comment by

Here's something that I keep asking myself: When will FSTDT disclose its hard leftist bias on the main page or at least rename itself to something like "Conservatives Say Things We Hate"?

Everything so far has been deceptive advertising. You pass yourself off as a site making fun of extreme theists to push a deeper agenda and you know it. That's the only thing a "fundie" has ever meant: a fundamentalist. You turned it to mean "anyone who's not a progressive politically".

@Citizen Justin

"The right to healthcare is the right to life, thus according to jimmyjimmy there is no right to life."

The right to life is a negative right. Healthcare is a positive right. Not the same thing.

"Perhaps he would change his mind if a gangster hit him up for 'protection' money?"

Except the gangster causes the problem that he's claiming to "protect" you from. That's how a racket works.

Private healthcare isn't a racket unless you literally believe that doctors are going around making people sick (including all the cancers, auto-immune diseases etc.) just to give them a cure to a problem that they created in the first place.

Fail leftist argument.

PS: Healthcare isn't "free" or universal even in countries with universal healthcare on paper. Why do you think there's still PRIVATE care even in those countries?

And a disproportionate amount of medical research (which makes new drugs and new treatments to help you) is done in the US where it's still profitable to do so because you don't have the price controls and weird regulations of a universal healthcare system. You burden the market, you get less out of it.

So if you actually want medical innovation (the kind that will be needed to kill all these superbugs which are becoming a serious threat to international health) you need a robust private sector too. Relying on government research alone is stupid.

old comment by

@Kanna

"We have a right to live in a civilized society, that is, one in which we don't allow sick or injured people to just die in the streets."

Which isn't a thing in the US. The ER has to give emergency care to everyone.

"We have a right to live in a safer society, which is one that doesn't allow disease epidemics to rage out of control."

That's also not a thing.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html

"We have a right to live as citizens of the twenty-first century, and even though you don't want to live a civilized life as a participant in our society, we have the right to tell you to shut your cakehole and not try to impose primitive medical care on the rest of us. "

Nobody's "imposing" anything. If you have a medical issue you're more than welcome to e-beg or whatever and if you have a ton of cash you don't know what to spend on, go donate to someone's treatment.

"Primitive"? Yes, without US innovation the world's medical capabilities would be much worse... dare I say "primitive", but hey at least they'd be "equal" lol

https://www.quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

So keep crying about how the rest of the world has it better except it's not true

old comment by Swede

Jesus and his disciples lived in somewhat of a commune, sharing everything between them.

The free market system is neither free, beautiful, simple nor fair. In most transactions one party is much stronger than the other. Sometimes you have to trade what you don't have for what you need to have... Do you think you'd have a free exchange and get what you desire in a deal with the Drumpf? If so, ask all the contractors and business men who have outstanding claims on works they've done for him (including election campaign people).

Universal human rights are basic rights that everyone ought to have, like right to life, right to autonomy, right to seek asylum, right to a roof over your head and food and clean water, reproductive rights, free speech rights, right to a fair trial, etc.

@ the anonymous grouch; I'm a Socialist and I see little leftist bias on this site. I see mostly liberal biases, and only in the US is that a left-wing ideology. There are many here who are not Americans.
It does say, on the front page or in the FAQs, that it's not only religious fundamentalists but all kinds of fundamentalists that we make fun of. If this site doesn't fit your liking, there are many other sites to choose form on the Net. You can even create your own site, that exactly fit your requirements.

old comment by Pharaoh Bastethotep

And a disproportionate amount of medical research (which makes new drugs and new treatments to help you) is done in the US where it's still profitable to do so because you don't have the price controls and weird regulations of a universal healthcare system. You burden the market, you get less out of it.
So if you actually want medical innovation (the kind that will be needed to kill all these superbugs which are becoming a serious threat to international health) you need a robust private sector too. Relying on government research alone is stupid.

"Primitive"? Yes, without US innovation the world's medical capabilities would be much worse... dare I say "primitive", but hey at least they'd be "equal" lol
https://www.quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years
So keep crying about how the rest of the world has it better except it's not true

You are conflating pharmaceutical industry, which develops substance classes with theoretical potential into medicine (of course, only where it can be turned to profit - for a major problem here, look up "neglected tropical diseases"), and health insurance, which is entirely unrelated to medical research and where the US is most infamous for its kafkaesque robber barons.

If there is a threat to research, I would rather look towards Trump and his plans to dismantle public education (as well as general antiintellectualism and contempt for facts), which would include the (already underfunded) "government research" industry, including pharmaceutical companies, rely on for ideas to turn into marketable products.

old comment by

@creativerealms

"I agree that being a conservative in of itself isn't fundy. Thinking the free market is given to us by God is Fundie."

Yeah... I'll have you know I'm not much in favor of God-based policy making either but also I'm not buying your excuse for one simple reason.

You never quote leftists if they try to justify their reasoning based on God.

Really? "There's a special place in Hell" for people who didn't vote Hillary? Don't see that quote. And it will never appear because they're on your side and FSTDT is just political hackery pretending to be "rational" and "logical" and "skeptical" and all these other buzzwords used by pseudo-skeptics partisan hacks who never practice the principles they preach.

Also guess what? Abolitionists argued from a religious point of view against slavery. Are they "fundies" too or was that okay because it was a good cause? There's a tough one to think about.

I actually want secular based policy making, you just seem to bash religious folk, specifically Christian.

@Pharaoh Bastethotep

Yeah nice try at muddying the waters but no.

The pharma industry is never separated from a universal healthcare system.

All these systems rely on heavy regulations and most importantly: price controls. If government takes over healthcare they will start to dictate medication prices.

Problem is, price controls often lead to shortages. Nobody is going to invest billions of dollars into making new innovative medication if they can't sell it at a market value and the profit margins are incredibly small / non-existent / negative (operating at a loss).

So you can continue praising other countries for their healthcare, but a lot of them just leech off US innovation that wouldn't have been possible without the US and its free market system (its close to free market anyway, it's never really been completely free).

The solution to expensive medical care is competition. More doctors, more generic drugs (patents eventually expire anyway).

A human system, not the imposition or work of a mysterious "divine" Mammon. A system that also requires regulations, with its history of abuses. And laws, with the existence of exploitators and fraudsters. And taxes, for their implementation, infrastructure and healthy function. And rights, to prevent kleptocracy and slavery but also to allow property. The post is really a type of faith statement of exploitation fundamentalism.

Everything so far has been deceptive advertising. You pass yourself off as a site making fun of extreme theists to push a deeper agenda and you know it. That's the only thing a "fundie" has ever meant: a fundamentalist. You turned it to mean "anyone who's not a progressive politically".

It turns out that religious manipulation is interlinked with other forms of exploitation. The original post also confirms it once again. Elite power justification, throughout history.

jimmyjimmy #fundie christianforums.com

32 comments

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