latest

(=A rant against a Progresisve Christian Website=)

That you are not a Christian is illustrated by this post.

From PATHetic thEOS

1. "We embrace the many variations of the view expressed by many great Christian thinkers that “We take the Bible too seriously, to read it all literally.”

Really, this sounds like an excuse to make up your own opinion as to what is good and bad rather than accept what the Bible says.

2. "We don’t think that God wrote the Bible. We think it was written by fallible human beings who were inspired by (not dictated to by) the Holy Spirit. Hence, we don’t consider it to be infallible or inerrant."

Then why bother with the Bible at all? After all, you are so much more clever than those who wrote it and know so much more. You even know more than Jesus who clearly did regard the Bible as infallible.

3. "While we’re aware of the many inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible; and while we’re abhorred by, and reject, the various instances of horrible theology that appear here and there within the texts (e.g., passages that posit God as wrathful, vindictive, and condoning of slavery, and even “ordering” rape and genocide, etc.), they don’t cause us to reject the Bible, rather, they endear us to the Bible. Not because we agree with those passages, but because we recognize that they are fully human – they’re authentic, they’re down to earth, and they flat out convey the desperate and very real frustration, lament, and anger that are part of the human condition. The fact that such passages were allowed to be written into our holy scriptures are evidence of a mature people who realize that it’s best not to hide our dirty laundry or to deny our very real human feelings and passions. If the Bible were all about PR propaganda, they would have edited out those passages. We view those passages as exceptions to the over-arching message of the Bible of promoting unconditional love and the full inclusion and acceptance of all of God’s children. Indeed, while we wish those passages weren’t there, they actually help us to grant authority to the Bible in that we can see that was written by fellow humans who are struggling with real life and death matters of injustice, oppression. And since they make space for our need to vent and rage – we honor the Bible all the more for it honors our shadow sides – and that honoring is what allows for the possibility of our shadows being transformed and integrated in healthy ways."

So in other words, as above, you take out the bits you like and reject those you don't like. You seem to think that all mankind is God's children, reading the Bible should have taught you that this is not so. Would you consider Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot God's children? And BTW there are no " inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible".

4. "We read the Bible prayerfully. We agree with our conservative brothers and sisters that the Holy Spirit helps us to interpret what we need to read as we read."

To read the Bible in this way you first have to be a Christian, you have to be willing to listen to God. Your previous points have demonstrated that this is not the case so you cannot claim to receive the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

5. "We seek to apply full attention to Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience (and that includes the insights of contemporary science)."

Remember, much of contemporary science is just the opinions of fallible men. It is not without reason that it is spoken of as the best current understanding, tomorrow it might be different. And when it becomes different, you will have to change your theology. What you really mean is that you place your opinion as the authority and accept anything in Scripture that matches up to that.

6. "We realize that there is no “objective, one, right way” to interpret a passage – and we recognize that there is no reading of any text – including the Bible – that doesn’t involve interpretation. We also realize that each person interprets the text via their own personal experiences, education, upbringing, socio-political context, and more."

In other words you can make the Bible mean whatever you want.

...

7. "We do our best to read the biblical texts in their original languages (Hebrew and koine Greek) – and consult scholars and others to assist us. We also tend to look at several English translations – and by no means limiting ourselves to the King James version – which, while the best English version in conveying the beautiful poetry of the original languages, is based upon inferior manuscripts."

That's pretty pointless when you are clearly manipulating the text to mean what you want it to mean. Indeed, why bother with the Bible at all?

8. "We consider the best available Biblical scholarship from those who study it academically and professionally (and they’re generally fellow Christians and/or Jews)."

And by best, it seems, you mean those who agree with you.

9. "We seek to read passages in context – within their chapter, within their book, within their genre, and within the over-arching thrust of the Bible."

Doesn't this conflict with your need to be the master, or is it that you manipulate the context to fit what you want it to mean.

10. "We seek to read the passages with consideration of the historical socio-political contexts, frequently of oppression, which they were written in."

This, of course, manipulates 9, above. What you mean is that you use all sorts of unproven ideas to modify what the text says so it suits you.

11. "We employ a hermeneutic of compassion, love, and justice. (Which Jesus utilized). A hermeneutic is “an interpretive lens” and intentional filter. The hermeneutic of love seeks to see the forest for the trees and that allows the spirit of the law to trump the letter of the law (which Jesus modeled[sic])."

And what hermeneutic was Jesus using when He said:

And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
(Matthew 7:23 [ESV])

And this is just a way of modifying the meaning to fit your prejudices.

12. "We also tend to employ a “canon within the canon” lens whereby we give greater weight and priority to certain texts over others. A canon is an officially established collection of books that are revered by a given community – for Protestants, that refers to the 66 books of the Bible. In my case, I give greatest weight to Mark, Luke, Matthew, John (in that order), certain letters that Paul actually wrote (as opposed to the Pastoral Epistles which he didn’t), the Prophets, and the Psalms. I interpret the other books of the Bible according to how they jibe and are in sync with these primary texts. Many progressive Christians refer to themselves as “Matthew 25 Christians” (referring to the test for who Jesus says is in or isn’t in the Kingdom by what they do or don’t do), “Sermon on the Mount Christians” (stressing their seeking to prioritize those teachings as central); or as “Red Letter Christians” (indicating that they give greatest weight to the words attributed to Jesus)."

So in other words, you place the books that say things you don't like low down on the list. What a dishonest way of reading the Bible.

13. "We also seek to allow “scripture to interpret scripture.” Here’s an example regarding how to interpret “the sin of Sodom”:
The Bible interprets itself regarding the story of Sodom in Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. And Jesus himself supports the view that the sin of Sodom was their lack of hospitality and hesed (loving-kindness) in Matthew 10:9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.”

And the result of Sodom's sin was that they were sliding down that slippery slope we see in Romans 1:18-32.

14. "We follow Jesus’ example in being willing to reject certain passages & theologies in the Bible and to affirm other ones. (He did it a lot)"

Really, would you like to give us an example?

15. "We do as much of the above as we can with fellow Christians in community with others. We avoid doing it solely as a solo endeavor. (We also tend to be open to doing this in community with Jews and Muslims, as fellow “people of the Book” whose insights are often invaluable)"

So you don't seek the opinions of those who love God, but rather look for people who agree with you, even unbelievers.

16. "We repeat these steps frequently as new information and scholarship comes in. Knowing that we will always find something that we hadn’t noticed before each time that we do this."

And always ensuring that we look for those in agreement with us.

glenbo: You claimed the LGBT lobby wanting equality for all LGBT people is a "smokescreen." For what? Proof, please?

Mark Jones: I gave you proof yesterday. So using that argument to prove I’m a liar is not valid. So once again I’ll ask you to prove I’m a liar. While I’m at it, answer me the question you kept dodging yesterday. Was Sid a liar when he said God was imaginary? Because if you stay true to the logic that you used he would be as he didn’t prove that God was imaginary.

glenbo: "I gave you proof yesterday." No you didn't.

Mark Jones: That’s not what the evidence suggests as I can provide screenshots that I did. Here’s screenshot #1 View — uploads.disquscdn.com

glenbo: This proves NOTHING. All this says is that when a gay person gets the shaft from a business owner, they get upset. I don’t blame them. So what is the purpose behind your alleged “smokescreen?”

Mark Jones: But as I say, I’ve exposed you as a liar two days in a row now. So considering you’ve put yourself in this position would you like to admit that if you stand by the logic you used to call me a liar, that makes Sid Rumpo a liar as he could not defend his claim that God was imaginary?

glenbo: Mark...gay people don't want equality just for the sole purpose to beat up on Christians. This is a LIE. You are a LIAR

Mark Jones: When did I say it was just to beat up on Christians Glenbo?
So you not only lie about me being a liar, you also lie about the things I’ve said. You’re not an honest individual really are you Glenbo?

glenbo: Mark, please let me explain this to you... Gay people want equality in order to better their lives. Many wish to marry the one they love. There are many benefits to marriage (1138 federal + hundreds of state benefits) They want protections from being fired or evicted just for being gay, and they wish to protect one another which being marriage does effortlessly. They want to be able to go into a business and be served and treated with respect and dignity just like you and everyone else do. They didn't lead a decades long march and spend tens of millions of dollars just to screw with Christians. That's absurd and illogical. There is no "smokescreen" about wanting to be treated fairly. Gay people aren't out to do bad things to Christians. Quite frankly, they don't care about what religion anyone subscribes to. And many gay people are also Christians. They just want to be able to purchase the same things everyone else does.
That's it. This isn't a lie...this is what gay people truly want. And while there are isolated incidents of Christian businesses getting in trouble with the law, that's because they broke the law in the first place. There are anti-discrimination laws everywhere, and when the rare rogue "Christian" business owner says: Sorry, I don't sell wedding cakes to your kind of people, the rejected people are hurt, get angry and report the offense. Can you blame them? Being discriminated against is psychologically damaging. It truly hurts those being treated with discrimination. If business owners obeyed the law and served all in the public marketplace, we wouldn't be hearing stories like Jack Phillips. And that's it...gay people want their wedding cakes too.
There's no clause in anti-discrimination law that says you may reject gay people at will. It's just not legal. It's also not moral. And it's just not a nice thing to do to people. If sexual orientation is considered a protected class, as it is in Colorado, gay marriage doesn't have to be legal in order to violate this anti-discrimination law. Gay people aren't out to attack Christians, Mark...please understand this.
Yes, some have sued Christian business owners, but their reasons were legitimate and had a catalyst. There had to be a cause for gay people to take legal action against a Christian business owner in the first place. Gay people simply aren't out to attack Christians willy nilly at random for no logical reason, especially if the Christian business owner never did anything wrong or offensive to the gay couples. That just doesn't make sense.
And to quote Judge Judy: "If it doesn't make sense, it's not true." Before prop 8 in California banned same-sex marriage, 18,000 gay couples tied the knot. That's 36,000 gay people successfully getting married and not one Christian was "attacked." Where's the "smokescreen" in California? I just don't understand why you can't get the simple concept that wanting equality is NOT the same as wanting to harm Christians for no reason.
This just simply isn't true.
Perhaps I was wrong in calling you a liar. I would feel hurt if someone called me a liar simply because I believed something different. If this is the case, then I apologize. Perhaps you are/were convinced about this "smokescreen" agenda and perhaps you misunderstand the true nature of most gay people. Yeah, there are idiots in every group. But as a whole, gay people want to peacefully coexist with the rest of society. Is that too much to ask?

Mark Jones: Wow! Nice essay ... oh to continue to prove that you’re a liar. Well done!

glenbo: Utter BULL$HIT. You are a bigot and a manipulative LIAR.

Mark Jones: I never once said that the LGBT rights lobby want to only persecute Christians. Once again you lie about my statement. Why should I prove a claim I never made? If you’re going to call me a liar, don’t lie. It only makes you a hypocrite and a waste of time and space.

glenbo: "I never once said that the LGBT rights lobby want to only persecute Christians. " You said the LGBT rights lobby advocates for LGBT rights to use as a "smokescreen" to persecute Christians. You have NOT provided evidence of this. Therefore, you LIED.

Mark Jones: I did say that, and I did provide evidence of that. Therefore you are still a liar.

glenbo: " I did provide evidence of that. " No you didn't. Show me this "proof."

Mark Jones: Lol, you lying like this is comical.

glenbo: "Lol, you lying like this is comical.' It's okay. You have NO proof. Got it.

Mark Jones: Lol. So you’re enjoying denying that you’ve had the evidence then?

glenbo: So you’re enjoying denying that you’ve had the evidence then?" Is this your "evidence?" ”Christian printer sued” ”Christian baker told he didn’t commit discrimination” "They are against Christians who hold a traditional biblical worldview”

Mark Jones: Nope. You know full well what the evidence is Glenbo. You’re just too dishonest to admit it.

glenbo "You know full well what the evidence is Glenbo. You’re just too dishonest to admit it." Please re-post your "evidence" that LGBT rights advocates intend to use LGBT rights as a "smokescreen" to persecute Christians. Once verified, I will issue a sincere public apology to you for calling you a liar. If I am wrong, I need to be corrected..

Mark Jones: Why so you can call me a liar and say I haven’t posted it again? Sorry Glenbo, but I can’t your word on this, you have proven yourself to be a liar so I have to ask why should I post evidence you’ve already had to just have you lie again and say I haven’t.

glenbo: "Why so you can call me a liar and say I haven’t posted it again?" This is your opportunity to absolve yourself of being a liar. You made a claim, I am asking for proof. If you told the truth, you can re-post your evidence. Please post the evidence that LGBT rights advocates intend to use LGBT rights as a "smokescreen" to persecute Christians.

Mark Jones: Absolve myself of being a liar? When it is you who has been proved to be a liar on multiple occasions whilst you’ve never proven me to be one even once? Tell me Glenbo, do you always expect people to pander to you in discussions like this?

glenbo: Since you have failed to show evidence that LGBT activists want equality in order to persecute Christians, you are a LIAR.

Mark Jones: Since you have failed to show evidence that I haven’t posted the evidence you know I have posted that shows that LGBT activists want “equality” in order to persecute Christians, you are a LIAR. See Glenbo, I can play your game as well. Difference is, I’ll win at your game.