God as a self-generating entity makes perfect sence to me. The universe self-generating? Not so much sence.

In fact, I think that if every single human being followed the ten commandments, there would be no problems. Why? Because everyone would be the same religion and faith anyway and everyone would know what and what not to do.

Your supernatural unicorn is nevertheless still a false analogy. NOBODY believes in it. People believe in God, whether they're wrong or right that belief means something. The unicorn thing is essentially nonsensical, because it's too specific. There ARE things that lead people to believe in the supernatural, but nothing that points to any aspect of this supernatural realm having anything to do with unicorns. No one claims to have been visited by a unicorn, but people do claim to have been visited by God, to have talked to God, to have seen God. It does not matter at all (at least for the sake of this argument) whether they're or lying or not. Simply by claiming these things, they distinguish a belief in god from these ridiculously pointless and falsely analogous beliefs in unicorns and spacewhales.

Also, I really doubt there will ever be an overpopulation because it's part of god's creation, if it appears that there's an overpopulation, the god or whoever made everything would then resize Earth a bit bigger to fill up for new people to live.

<img src="http://riversedgecs.com/lol_athi.jpg">

[on Presidential candidate Barack Obama]

I don't even care if the guy's a Christian. That name represents a kind of upbringing that is symbolic of a hostility towards every person in the United States.

[In response to how if god could be self creating or eternal, why could not matter?]

Said it before- say it again- time travel. Something like God could create a.... something.... a ball of some kind of hyper-matter or something.... with exactly the right properties. And cut open a hole in time/space. Then toss said whatever back into whatever it was before even Time existed. And that whatever would then cause the chain reaction that'd birth all existence, including God. I mean, this is something graspable even from the mortal plain, so it's not a leap of imagination or intelligence. It's just incapable of happening without SENTIENT interference.

[did you miss the part where it's the positive assertation which has to prove itself?]

And did you miss the part where you've yet to prove that? You claim that a positive assertation must prove itself. Yet provide no proof that such is the case. And please don't insult us with some "self evident" argument.

Most things we think about the universe are based on anecdotal evidence. God makes a LOT more sence than this "dark matter" stuff physicists are always talking about. I think they made it up so they didn't have to say "we have no ****ing idea".

Ask any doctor, scientist, faith healer or soothsayer to bring back a dead man to life, or ask the doctor how it can be that someone stops breathing. Find out why none of them can rescuscitate a human back to life. If there wasn't a soul, then why can't they bring back that force of life?

[on why God had to have written the Bible]

But think about it, who is smart enough to write the Holy Bible? The answer, no one.

[...]

How could people back then have written words with such intellegence? We were not very educated back then, we all know. So tell me, how could people back ages ago could have written the bible?

We don't except God because the illusion of the world and mankind will not allow us. Only by reading and hearing about God's word will you understand everything. Saying that religious people are plain and don't think outside of the box is certainly untrue.

"Faith is embedded in hope and is the predecessor to sight. It envisions the impossible and accepts the incredible."

That statement proves that not only do we think outside of box, we think outside of the illusional world of ours to seek the truth. We do not belive that our minds, hearts, bodies and souls were simply accents. When we feel pain in our chest, that doesn't come from the brain. It comes from the heart, where the soul rests. When you get feelings inside, your head doesn't hurt. Your heart and soul feel those things, not your brain.

So saying we are ignorant to reality is really crap. We are taking reality and moving it aside to see the truth of the universe and all it's beauty, because I don't belive everything on this beautiful earth was accidental.

Because NOTHING can be that one-in-infinity chance. That's the nature of infinity. The only chance of a single finite result in infinite possibility is with infinite attempts. And if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there. Because on of those infinite realities would have exactly the properties to turn an entire universe into a single sentient lifeform (life in this case is a loose term).

[on why "argument from personal incredulity" isn't a logical fallacy]

How's it a logical fallacy? Logic is by definition a consideration of incredulity. And incredulity is by nature personal. Therefor logic IS personal incredulity.

Water is TOO PERFECT to be attributed to chance.

But, yes, scientology is just weird. One of the top three strangest beliefs humans have solidified. Atheism and Demon Worship being the other two. Not sure which of the three takes top place. I seem to change my mind too often. But they're certainly the top three.

*sigh* You atheists and your "evidence".

[Worst analogy ever: faith in God is like being tied and bound to a chair and ordered to believe in the existence of stationary]

He used the example of a pencil being on a desk; You cant question whether that pencil is fact or not because you can see it. But people question wether God is real or not because you cant see him. But then I began to think. What if someone put the pencil inside the desk, therefore, nullifying your ability to see it. They then tied you to a chair so you could not look inside the desk, to proove that it was-or was not- there. And they bound your hands, to restrain you from feeling the presence of the pencil. They ordered you to believe. They told you to belive that the pencil was there, that the unknown was fact and the possible deception was absolute truth. And you did; you did believe. You saw the pencil cast a shadow (like christians feeling the presence of God) and your mnd was made. But then you failed to see it for days to came (like christains doubting their faith). Suddenly the person who bound let you free (a metaphor of dying) and you were able to see fi the pencil was their or not; it was.

you know whats stupid? Just like scientology,wiccanism was made up almost 30 years ago..apparently,"WITCHCRAFT" was just MADE UP! No proof that it was an ACTUAL religion back then..Christianity,however HAS proof! Since the beginning of time there have been documents PROVING christianit,not making it up like "WITCHCRAFT"

Karma is not ridiculous! its perfectly understandable.. Do not mock my beiliefs. If you get murderd means u deserve it.. u could of been a saint and got murderd. It could of been somethin u did in another life as a human being, who knows.. But if u get killed then u would have deserved it.. Karma, very understandable and true. If kids died in a car crash means its there Karma, they must have done somethin bad in a life before this one.

of course there is a god.. There is allways a creator. Everything you see around you is created by god. Except the violence.. Loneliness or sadness could not exsist in this world if god didn't have those qualities. Even Violence, god is violent but not in a bad way. Such as he likes to battle against demons for the fun. He creats them and battle's against them.

[In response to the fact that a bush can't talk]

And how do you know that a bush doesn't have something that would allow it to speak, and we merely don't know about it? Humanities scientific knowledge is nowhere near perfect. Maybe a bush can speak, and we just don't yet understand why.

An Atheist cannot smell, touch, taste, or see the beginning of the universe, thus they really have no idea whether a transient being exists, or not, despite all the overwhelming evidence makes the possibilty of current state of things in the universe being an "accident" or random like how If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, every living thing on earth would die. Are you kidding me, you ask me to believe that something that random to have occured? Sorry but I'll keep my transient being theory, though how irrational, it is far more rational right now than anything anybody has thought of.

Yes, God does exist. I am a christian, and frankly I find it easier just to believe than to try and prove existance through science. If you're just like "Yeah, some entity made universe, the end, good game." It's alot easier on your mind and stuff.

the thing is, the atheists in this arguement don't like things that are unexplained. They want everything to be known and have a logical explanation to them. They just don't understand that everything doesn't happen naturally or as it should.

[in response to retort of original argument, which was that we don't really know that 2+2=4, so a belief in god is equally justifiable]

You missed my point. You do not experience the number '4' as you do with the other senses. Yes, you can see two objects and another two objects that equal four, but it is not something you experience. That was my point.