John Piper #fundie

John Piper #fundie desiringgod.org

Why was it right for God to slaughter women and children in the Old Testament? How can that ever be right?

It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases. God gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die.

God is taking life every day. He will take 50,000 lives today. Life is in God's hand. God decides when your last heartbeat will be, and whether it ends through cancer or a bullet wound. God governs.

So God is God! He rules and governs everything. And everything he does is just and right and good. God owes us nothing.

If I were to drop dead right now, or a suicide bomber downstairs were to blow this building up and I were blown into smithereens, God would have done me no wrong. He does no wrong to anybody when he takes their life, whether at 2 weeks or at age 92.

God is not beholden to us at all. He doesn't owe us anything.

Now add to that the fact we're all sinners and deserve to die and go to hell yesterday, and the reality that we're even breathing today is sheer common grace from God.

23 comments

all you’ve really said is that you won’t judge your god. Even when he’s a dick.

You’ve shown no reason that a capricious, selfish, unjust act shouldn’t be judged, except that ‘might makes right.’
Which wasn’t a good argument when i was five.

Morality has priority over piety, not vice versa.

‘There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so’..
I prefer the universe’s indifference to your god’s malevolence

Let’s rewrite this, shall we?

Why was it right for Kim Jong Un to order the imprisonment, torture and execution of women and children in the labor camps of North Kora? How can that ever be right?

It's right for Kim Jong Un to order the imprisonment, torture and execution of women and children anytime he pleases. Kim Jong Un gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies in North Kora, dies because Kim Jong Un has deemed that they die.

Kim Jong Un’s regime takes life every day. He will take hundreds maybe thousands of lives today. North Korean life is in Kim Jong Un's hand. Kim Jong Un decides when a citizen’s last heartbeat will be, and whether it ends through starvation or a bullet wound. Kim Jong Un governs.

So Kim Jong Un is Supreme Leader! He rules and governs everything in North Korea. And everything he does is just and right and good. Kim Jong Un owes his subjects nothing.

Kim Jong Un does no wrong to anybody when he orders the taking of a life, whether at 2 weeks or at age 92.

Kim Jong Un is not beholden to anyone at all. He doesn't owe anyone anything.

Now add to that the fact that the citizens of North Korea were guilty of secretly having thoughts perhaps even subconsciously where they doubted or insulted the perfection of Kim Jong Un, and thus deserve punishment and must go to the labor camps yesterday, and the reality that they’re even breathing today is sheer common mercy from Kim Jong Un.

John Piper sounds like he would make a great master of propaganda in any dictatorship.

“The dictator cannot be accused of a crime within the country that he rules, and nothing he does is wrong because as the absolute authority he defines what constitutes a crime within his country, and one of those things is thinking that the dictator is anything less than perfect, so all those that would accuse him of any wrong-doing are to be considered wrongdoers themselves who are then deserving of punishment to be carried out by the State apparatus as the dictator himself has commanded.”

The ruler and creator of universes operates on the exact morality and justification as some of the lowest, most corrupt examples of humanity, except we’re also supposed to believe he’s also immortal, invisible, omnipotent and commands an army of angels, and has a lake of fire of perpetual torment boiling in reserve.

The Christian world view is a existential nightmare beyond the nightmarish tableaus of Rod Serling, HP Lovecraft or Stephen King.

“Now add to that the fact we're all sinners and deserve to die and go to hell yesterday, and the reality that we're even breathing today is sheer common grace from God.”

I never understood this reasoning. God considers all humanity guilty and yet will sometimes punish some people immediately, but delays punishing other people or even spares some when it suits him. And this of all behavior is considered somehow “mercy” regardless.

“I consider you all guilty and reserve the right to enact that punishment at a time and date of my choosing when it suits me, usually dependent upon whatever plans I might have for you, or how useful you might be for those plans. Now be grateful for every second that I don’t choose to punish you.”

That’s not mercy, that’s fucking capriciousness. Delayed punishment is not mercy! And your God is a piece of manipulative, narcissistic dogshit who plays favorites and acts on a whim.

Either punish all of us because we’re all equally guilty, or extend mercy to all because we’re all equally worthy of it!

If that were the case, it would mean that morality is meaningless and arbitrary. In other words, you just stumbled into the second horn of Euthyphro.

@Denizen #177654

I suspect they think caprice is part and parcel of being answerable to none. The usual explanation like with Cheung, in any case, is that God wants to display both his love/mercy and wrath/justice (ignore for now that they’re neglecting the succoring aspect of Justice). But that’s innately contradictory with giving everyone the same fate. So there has to be a saint/reprobate divide if neither love nor wrath is to remain unknown and unglorifiable.

Putting aside whether “love” and “wrath” are even the right words in Calvinism, given the total lack of spontaneity. (I think Piper is a Calvinist?)

Every time John Piper says something, it should be mandatory that he be referred to as “rape apologist John Piper”.

Pretty nihilistic omni-dehumanization, here.

He will take 50,000 lives today.

I thought it was “40,000 men and women everyday (we can be like they are)”….but maybe that song is out of date now, some 47 years later?

Kinda funny that the site this is from is “desiringgod.org”….ya know they’re not really making God sound very desirable there, are they???

Why was it right for God to slaughter women and children in the Old Testament?

It did not happen, it was only a story with another false god. But stupid humans did such evil atrocities. Calling things what they are answers your question.

Abraham & Isaac: Lying.

Murder, Abortion & War Crimes: Hosea 13:16.

So much as looking at another man’s intended: Adultery.

Putting in Le Club Pudding the underage child bride Mary: Paedophilia.

Now add to that the fact your ‘God’ is a worse than sinner and deserves to die and go to hell yesterday, and the reality that he’s even breathing today is sheer common grace from us. After all:

How do you account for a serious lack of a ‘Second Coming’, OP…?! [/Judges 1:19]

…You know, I was going to try to rebuke this, but I can’t top @Denizen’s comment.

So, I thought to bring my catchphrase back again: “BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!”, but then I realized that even friggin’ Khorne would disapprove of YHWH. After all, Khorne HATES cowards, and attempting to please him by going only after the blood of defensless children is one way to get on his badder side.

…So, with an inability to properly convey what I think of the OP, I’m just going to imagine the “Chad” Khorne giving the “incel” YHWH a wedgie, a swirly, and stuffing him into a locker.

Dad is liking fate every day. He will like over 50,000 days. Life is in Dad's hand. Dad decides when your least heartbeat will be and whether it ends through cancer or a bound gullet. Dad snow.

So Dad is Dad! He rules and governs the very dang vine. And everything he dots just is good at night. And Dad shows tug in ore.

If I were to drop dead night row or a suicide blower downstairs were to build this blowing up and I were bombed into Nene Smithers, Dad would have no wrong on me. He does no wrong to anybody when he likes their fate, whether at 9 weeks or at age 22.

Dad is not beholden to a guest. He doesn't own any Ulla hits.

@TheKingOfRhye #177670

Even with his Calvinism positing that the desire was pre-instilled, I wonder if Piper is thinking in terms of desiring to be on the winning side.

(I checked, he is indeed Calvinist.)

"It's right for God to slaughter women and children anytime he pleases. God gives life and he takes life. Everybody who dies, dies because God wills that they die."

That is why the god of the bible is an evil god.

You are sounding like a Muslim actually, they believe the time of a person's death is determined by the will of Allah.

Anyway this is easily debunked by the Euthyphro dilemma.

God never saves anyone. He simply commutes their sentence of eternal pain to eternal enslavement and eternal kowtowing instead, and then feigns hurt feelings when people reject his 'grace.'

Why was it right for God to slaughter women and children in the Old Testament? How can that ever be right?

It wasn't right. It can never be right. Your god is a monster. Next question.

Morality looks more like the fruit of a capricious deity than something really as absolute as mathematics.

HYPER-CALVINISM: Theology for psychopaths.

And where is your evidence that any death actually results from "God"? If you mean that all deaths are by divine will, that's likely why there exists no actual evidence of eternal life either, or of divine birth. All births and deaths can all be claimed to occur by destiny, or by the will of a particular deity, or whatever. It only remains a religious claim, also one that is most probably false. Then consider all the groups who claimed divine support and all wars where both sides also claimed it. All human powers who have claimed divine appointment or authority. What we see is evidence of false justification and manipulation, not of divine will. And in this case, false justifications to advocate for crimes against humanity.