www.patheos.com

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

But #DefundPlannedParenthood is about more than tax dollars. It’s about, as Krauthammer notes, turning on the lights inside the abortion industry. I’ve argued before that pro-abortion sentiment in this country thrives off ignorance. Is there a more coherent explanation as to why Planned Parenthood and its allies lobby against ultrasound and parental notification laws? By keeping the visceral reality of abortion obscure–and by drenching the debate in muddy jargon–the architects of legal abortion can fold into “pro-choice” ranks many who might otherwise stand for life.

But what about those people like the medical officials in the videos? What about people with a lifetime’s worth of experience in dismembering unborn bodies (and then haggling over a fair price)? They are not clueless. Krauthammer’s ominous words about “what abortion does to us” sound like the Old Testament prophet’s warning that those who worship idols eventually become like them. There’s a hardening of the moral sensibility that must come to those who learn to excel in the business of death.

That’s the testimony of the late Bernard Nathanson, the famous abortionist-turned-pro-life activist. Dr. Nathanson’s documentary The Silent Scream has been credited with converting many to the cause of life, merely through its grisly depiction of an actual abortion. Like many other pro-life activists, Nathanson was militant for the cause of abortion rights for a long time as a medical professional. The story of his conversion to the cause of life is in this terrific profile by Robert P. George, and I encourage you to read the entire piece.

One chilling paragraph, with a quote from Nathanson, stands out:

By his own estimate, he presided over more than 60,000 abortions as Director of the Center for Reproductive and Sexual Health, personally instructed medical students and practitioners in the performance of about 15,000 more, and performed 5,000 abortions himself. In one of those abortions, he took the life of his own son or daughter—a child conceived with a girlfriend after he had established his medical practice. Writing with deep regret in his moving autobiography The Hand of God (1996), Nathanson confessed his own heartlessness in performing that abortion: “I swear to you, I had no feelings aside from the sense of accomplishment, the pride of expertise.”

“I had no feelings.” That’s it. That’s what Krauthammer means when he says “what abortion does to us.” The numbness, the deafness, the coldness. The corrosion of the moral imagination.

The videos of Planned Parenthood depict a culture–and likely a business–defined by its emotional distance from reality. The unborn children whose parts are bargained for over a red wine are not the only victims here. Can a society with such a calcified conscience ever regain its humanity? Yes it can. Like Dr. Bernard Nathanson, abortionists can discover the beauty of birth, through the miracle of rebirth. The blood of Jesus Christ runs deeper and redder than the bloodiest surgical tool. A dead moral imagination can be raised to life again, as sure as the dead body of the Son of God was raised.

Teddybearmiller #homophobia #fundie patheos.com

As Joyce Meyer said: When one group of individuals scream and kick to get what they consider to be their rights; they take away my rights. Is that fair or prejudice? The problem is not Human Rights or Constitutional Rights being violated; it is the homosexual judges and officials who are making these unjust decisions which take away the Rights of Christians to live and practice their beliefs. Even the US money has on it: IN GOD WE TRUST. At one time judges and officials had to take an oath sworn upon the bible and in the name of God. I guess that God has been flushed down the toilet and exchanged for secular rights. The owners of this Bakery in Oregon should counter sue the lesbians/homosexual community for defamation of character, slanger toward their business, loss of business and income, refusing them their Christian rights and beliefs and many more RIGHTS of these Christian bakers that have been violated. How much income would this bakery have earned for future sales to non-homosexuals? What authority does the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries have to enforce a judgement against someone for refusing service to anyone, lesbian or otherwise? This is an attack on Christianity moreso than the individuals. They were targeted by the homosexual movement/agenda. Which has planned for years to attack Christians and anyone else who doesn't agree with their perverted life-style. Go back to the mid 1980's and find the book which outlines the plan to subdue any opposition to homosexuality. Targeting Christians being part of that agenda. Using the media another main method. Their plan/agenda was orchistarted an dput together by professional propaganda specialists. After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s is a book published in 1989 by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen.[11] It argues that after the gay liberation phase of the 1970s and 1980s, gay rights groups should adopt more professional public relations techniques to convey their message. It was published by Doubleday and was generally available.

According to a Christian Broadcasting Network article by Paul Strand, Sears and Osten argue that After the Ball follows from "a 1988 summit of gay leaders in Warrenton, Virginia, who came together to agree on the agenda" and that "the two men (Kirk and Madsen) proposed using tactics on 'straight' America that are remarkably similar to the brainwashing methods of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese – mixed with Madison Avenue's most persuasive selling techniques."[13] The article goes on to claim that films such as Brokeback Mountain are part of this "well-planned propaganda campaign".http://www.massresistance.org/docs/is..

Peter Ward #fundie patheos.com

Who do you SAY JESUS IS?

Upon that answer you are saved or damned

You can be a degreed scholar known for quoting the bible and go straight to hell when you die. The devil isn't stupid and loves quoting the bible against believers but he doesn't really believe it either (and by the way the devil is called the "accuser" in the bible, he goes accusing others of wrongdoing no matter how legit or not because he is a liar).

Liberals LOVE critique and NOT facts these days and fool only their own.

Do YOU have a lifestyle of calling someone names no matter how the evidence speaks? Do you assume and call names because a celebrity or leader told you what to think today?

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9,10, NASB).

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).

For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them (Eph. 5:5-7)."
All of that not SOME but ALL of that message is true. Hear that often in Huffington, Vox, Slate, Salon or Yahoo?

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

Dreher is saying that once you define what it means to be a human person in terms of the autonomous will, then the human body becomes an ancillary piece of existence which can and should be changed, forced upon or even mutilated so that it lines up with the inner self. The body becomes either a sacrosanct extension of personal identity or an errant clump of matter that distracts from your true self. What really matters is the personal will, the inner self-expression of identity; the body simply has to follow suit or get out of the way.

This lesson in metaphysics is helpful in understanding why many people who seemingly celebrate the apparent happiness and flourishing of life at any expense to moral norms also see no problem with the termination of unborn life when it is “inconvenient.” If the essence of humanness is what I feel, then it makes perfect sense for Caitlyn Jenner to say “This is who I really am” with no regard to biological reality. But then, if that is so, it also makes perfect sense to reason that an unborn fetus, which has no expressible inner will, but which does have a well-formed and beautiful body, should not be allowed to veto the self-determining will of anyone, much less the individual who would be “forced” to carry it to term.

Do you see what has happened here? The religion of personal autonomy has not just altered our morals or our social norms; it has radicalized our understanding of ourselves. Instead of being souls under the tender sovereignty of a Creator, with a body of His making, we now see ourselves as our own creation. How can that be, when we obviously don’t create ourselves? Well, we don’t create ourselves physically, but we do “create” ourselves in other ways, and if the physical body is not part of our true self–indeed, if it can actually be the opposite of our true self–then it doesn’t really count, and we really are self-created things.

Recently I was perusing the Twitter page of a progressive writer who identifies as bisexual and pro-choice. She wrote effusively in critique of a conservative evangelical blogger who had criticized her sexual ethics. Her main point was that her sexuality, her sexual identity, was not a debatable moral position. “My existence,” she wrote, “is not a moral argument.” In other words, this writer’s bisexuality wasn’t just self-evidently moral, it was actually beyond the purview of morals altogether; her sexual identity was her personhood, and her personhood did not require some sort of ethical justification.

What jarred me was that she then pivoted from this argument into a defense of Planned Parenthood and the abortion industry. She passionately argued that abortion on demand was morally fine and that any other reality was a viable threat on women’s health and freedom. It was one of the most astonishing feats of logical gymnastics I’d ever seen. Just moments after pleading that her personhood, expressed in her sexuality, was an objective fact and not subject to a philosophical examination, she openly denigrated the value of unborn life and subjugated its personhood to the self-determining will of adults.

This kind of radical cognitive dissonance can only survive on a steady diet of misnomers. Call it “transgenderism,” “genderfluid” or “becoming who I really am.” Call it “tissue,” “a clump of cells,” or “reproductive health.” Call it anything other than what is. A generation that is authentically seeking after truth does not have at arm’s reach a platoon of highly contemporary socio-psychological vocabulary. The sheer amount of effort that many put into obscuring reality suggests that we are running from our own conscience. We are not confident. We have to avoid the traps of honest language continually.

I’m reminded of what the demon Screwtape told his underling about temptation and language:

Your man has been accustomed, ever since he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing about together inside his head. He doesn’t think of doctrines as primarily “true” or “false,” but as “academic” or “practical,” “outworn” or “contemporary,” “conventional” or “ruthless.” Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him away from the Church. Don’t waste time trying to make him think materialism is true! Make him think it is strong, or stark, or courageous–that it is the philosophy of the future. That’s the sort of thing he cares about.

The illusion cannot last forever. Deborah Nucatola was giving us a wake up call. The arc of secularism is long but it bends toward profit, violence, and oppression.

Edita #fundie patheos.com

So you like being overburdened by your womanly duties such as having kids, cleaning house and cooking all the while getting harassed at work by your boss? You like slavery? Why wouldn't you want an easy life where the only thing you care about is loving your husband? I don't understand your slave mind. Think woman, eventually you will get older you will begin to lack the energy to do it all. And your marriage will end in divorce.

I for one refuse such slavery. You are just as bad as Christian fundamentalist, homophobic pro-lifers to be honest. No longer will the TWRA's allow for women such as you to enslave us into doing male duties.

Feminists managed to ‘liberate’ women by making it easier for women to become sluts (premarital sex). Thus, reducing the importance of chaste and pure women as a result, men have no inventive to marry and women are used as nothing more but mere sexual commodities. When women finally tire of the promiscuous lifestyle, they find that no man wants to marry them. Men who do not shun marriage tend to marry virgins so the feminist promiscuous sluts are left to age by themselves. Or they settle for less well to do men and are subsequently are exploited by these men for monetary purposes. This is because the career of the promiscuous woman finally begins to take off exponentially after the investment she put forth in her 20’s and 30’s.

In the end, she misses out on marriageable men and wastes it on a useless career that essentially fails to fulfill her. Not only is the woman used for monetary and sexual purposes by her less successful (Mangina) husband who refuses to support her. He also exploits her when it comes to housework and child rearing. As again, the woman is made to do it all while the husband comfortably relaxes on a coach after a days work. Nevertheless, a working woman’s day never ends she not only is forced to have a job outside of the home she must do everything inside of the home. This includes everything from childcare, housework chores and servicing her husband sexually; indeed what a great day for the liberationist elite. To see women toil and suffer in the hands of an egalitarian society and at the hands of an emasculated husband who seeks to use and abuse the woman for all that she is worth. Feminism has made women lower the standards for men greatly. It has told women that they can be successful by themselves, however feminists failed to take into account the unfair distribution of labor in the household. In addition, the woman begins to resent her husband for making her work outside of the home and do everything inside of the home. This leads to fights and divorce, and thus after a divorce a woman seeks to gain the best financial advantage from the husband. Through alimony, some lucky gals manage to take revenge on Mangina husbands that way. However, most women are left destitute. As shown by the increasing poverty rates of single mothers.

This is the great liberation that feminism gave women. It has made women into thrash. It has made men disrespect women it has led to a nation of emasculated men who further thrive on the oppression of the feminine women. These men fear feminine women who seek protection and objectification of their men. They are scared to take responsibility, be the leaders in their families, and lead their wives. These men thus cause resentment in women. Then women act out in desperation. The modern woman is forced to be the “Escrava Isaura” of our time. She is shunned, thrashed and spit on; she becomes a sexual commodity to be used by many men. Additionally, she continues to be exploited after marriage by a husband who refuses to undertake the breadwinner role and makes her work outside of the home. Feminism has created a nation of deluded Isaura’s who insist on the doctrine of feminism, yet knowing that something is not right. Deep down she knows she is being exploited by the system she knows that it is unfair. Yet without a voice for women, she remains gullible and easily swayed toward the belief that egalitarianism is good.

Jesse Powell #fundie patheos.com

Regarding MRAs vs. TWRAs; these ideologies are oppositional to each other. Indeed a large part of the TWRA identity is based on opposition to MRAs. A Men’s Rights Activist is focused on “men’s rights;” namely they are the male version of feminists. Just like feminists focus on “women’s rights” MRAs focus on “men’s rights.” Feminism and MRAs are counterparts of each other; feminism representing female narcissism and female supremacy and MRAs representing male narcissism and male supremacy. Both MRAs and feminists are egalitarian and claim to promote “equality” between the sexes. TWRAs are specifically against equality and anti-egalitarian. MRAs are derivative of feminism and are therefore a variation of feminism and are naturally aligned with feminists; TWRAs are opposed to both feminists and MRAs because it is equality itself that TWRAs are opposed to.

TWRAs are Traditional Women’s Rights Activists; the focus being on restoring the rights of the traditional woman. Feminists are in favor of women’s rights, MRAs are in favor of men’s rights, TWRAs are in favor of Traditional Women’s Rights; the key point being the rights of women that are connected to women’s traditional role. The problem with the concept of “rights” as conceptualized by both feminists and MRAs is that the “rights” these groups assert are disconnected from responsibilities. Feminists and MRAs seek rights and privileges while at the same time denying their responsibilities and duties towards others; this is what makes both feminists and MRAs gender supremacists of their respective gender and narcissists who place themselves above others. TWRAs however only assert the rights that women are naturally entitled to based on and connected to women’s natural role in society. This is what makes the TWRA position honorable and noble; that there is a connection between the rights being demanded and the obligations towards others those rights are meant to serve.

TWRAs place a strong emphasis on the male duty of Chivalry and in particular insist that Chivalry is unconditionally owed to all women under all circumstances by all men. If you know anything about MRAs you know that MRAs hate Chivalry and all duties that men owe towards women. When pressed an MRA will often concede that Chivalry is a good thing but then they insist that Chivalry is a contract and only honorable women should receive Chivalry. This is totally not true; Chivalry is an unconditional obligation that men owe to women simply based on the man’s gender role. Many MRAs will claim that they support patriarchy while at the same time rejecting Chivalry. This is completely outrageous because Chivalry is a fundamental part of patriarchy. The TWRA demand that men owe women Chivalry unconditionally is a key part of the TWRA philosophy; this demand serves to keep manipulative MRAs out of our movement. MRAs want the privileges of the traditional man while rejecting the duties and obligations of the traditional man. This is intolerable; before a man can join the TWRAs he must first demonstrate his respect for women by acknowledging the Chivalrous duty that he owes to women, that he owes to all women.

Jesse Powell #fundie patheos.com

I will add in here, Chivalry is the main means through which women are protected and valued as women. The basic ethic of Chivalry is that men are to provide for and protect women. Men having authority over women is part of men protecting women and so is part of Chivalry. Women’s well being is directly tied to the strength and effectiveness of Chivalry. Chivalry can only be maintained and function properly when it is under men’s control. Feminism tries to hijack and corrupt Chivalry by placing it under women’s control. This then leads to Chivalry being exercised incompetently and being something that is abusive to men leading men to withdraw from Chivalry thereby weakening Chivalry. This weakening and corrupting of Chivalry is then the primary harm that feminism causes to women.

When Chivalry is hijacked by women through feminist assertion there are two different responses a man can make to this situation to keep himself from being further abused. He can either withdraw Chivalry entirely so that the woman can no longer use Chivalry as a weapon against him; this is what the MRAs do. The other alternative is that the man can assert himself so that Chivalry is once again under the man’s control as it should be; this is what the TWRAs advocate. Once Chivalry is under men’s control then Chivalry will be strengthened and society will return to its proper order. As things are going now the feminists are getting more and more aggressive with their manipulation and misuse of Chivalry and this is leading to an ever greater backlash against Chivalry itself by the MRAs. This is the road to the complete abolition of Chivalry which would be disastrous for women.

To prevent the further erosion of Chivalry which can only cause women greater harm men must reassert their control of Chivalry so that men can dedicate themselves to the Chivalrous ethic again. The resurrection of Chivalry is the resurrection of Traditional Women’s Rights and of patriarchy. Patriarchy is in essence Chivalry. Chivalry is to the benefit of women, it is your friend. Those truly concerned for the welfare of women must support men when they seek to embrace their better natures by providing for and protecting women and such men must not be attacked or ridiculed for being “controlling” or “oppressive;” instead such Chivalry must be met with appreciation and deference in order for the reestablishment of Chivalry to take hold in the male mind once again.

Anonymous #fundie patheos.com

Reverend Gilbert McBride is an Iowa minister who performs gay marriages, though he hasn’t done very many in the past few years. His wife died this past January and he was caring for her for a long while before that.

That’s why it’s so disturbing that, yesterday morning, when he got into his car, this note was waiting for him on the seat:

Reverend McBride

We recently discovered that you perform same sex weddings. That disturbs many of us in this community. Normally when someone in town dies the community comes together to do what we can for that person’s family. As you may or may not have noticed is when your wife died, no one came and brought meals or even so much as condolences. That’s because as a minister that performs gay weddings, you deserve all the bad that you brought upon yourself. Your wife died because God hates you for the abomination you have become by preaching his word while also catering to queers. We in this community hope you suffer as much as possible and realize that unless you change your faggot friendly ways, your suffering will only get worse. Do this town and your family a favor and get a rope and hang yourself. People like you disgust us. We don’t want or need your kind around us making our town look worse. I personally hope you die a slow and ugly death. Maybe you can catch aids from your friends. Just die.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

The phrase “culture war” is a little bit like the word “abortion.” Both terms exist to obscure and soften what they really mean. Everyone knows that abortion means the termination of unborn life, yet the term itself is a neutral one, having no special lexical connection to fetal life or even the medical profession. The reality behind the word is muddled by the word itself; thus, voters can feel in the word “abortion” a valuable human right of sexual autonomy that they wouldn’t feel in a term like “fetal suction aspiration.”

“Culture war” is another (though less toxic) species of muddle-word. Most people understand what it means–the aggregated debates and legal contests between conservatives and progressives on issues like abortion, euthanasia, education, and marriage. But look closely at the phrase. It is ambiguous and a little superficial (“culture” can mean anything from philosophy to food to the Kardashians), and more than a little negative and combative. Combine those elements and you get a word that conjures up images of low-stakes shouting matches between factions that probably have no skin in the game beyond the political power they’d love to wield over the lives of strangers.

This connotation is why, I think, it’s so commonplace to hear people disparage the notion of “culture war.” The critique is often predictable: Culture war is causing division and acrimony in American society, with no real benefits other than power and influence to those waging it from above, and therefore we should stop culture warring and learn to love. Nike could summarize it as: Just Don’t.

I think David Brooks is giving too much credit to this erroneous understanding of culture war in his column today at The New York Times. The beginning of Brooks’ piece shows that he understands the greater spiritual and human dimensions to contemporary cultural debates. He surmises, correctly, that traditional Christianity is no longer a merit badge for Americans, and that many Christians now fear being seen as “pariahs” in their own communities. Having lost the battle for the legal definition of marriage last week, Christians and social conservatives, according to Brooks, now have a choice: Do they “fight on,” (to use Brooks’ description of this SCOTUS symposium last week at First Things), or they make a change?

Consider putting aside, in the current climate, the culture war oriented around the sexual revolution.

Put aside a culture war that has alienated large parts of three generations from any consideration of religion or belief. Put aside an effort that has been a communications disaster, reducing a rich, complex and beautiful faith into a public obsession with sex. Put aside a culture war that, at least over the near term, you are destined to lose.

Consider a different culture war, one just as central to your faith and far more powerful in its persuasive witness.

This other culture war that Brooks is describing would be, in his words, the war against social “formlessness and radical flux.” Brooks believes that this culture war is a war against poverty, familial decay, social stagnation, and loess of transcendence. In his words:

The defining face of social conservatism could be this: Those are the people who go into underprivileged areas and form organizations to help nurture stable families. Those are the people who build community institutions in places where they are sparse. Those are the people who can help us think about how economic joblessness and spiritual poverty reinforce each other. Those are the people who converse with us about the transcendent in everyday life.

Yes and amen. This is precisely what conservatives should be doing. The question is: Why must they be doing this OR fighting for marriage, instead of AND fighting for marriage?

It seems to me that Brooks is oscillating between a right and a wrong understanding of culture war. On the one hand, he says that speaking transcendence into a individualistic, fragmented society is a sort of “culture war.” He’s right. Personal autonomy, a doctrine that features prominently in the philosophy of the Sexual Revolution, has wrecked my generation onto an island of loneliness, shattered homes, and relational backwardness. Going against the religion of personal autonomy is culture war.

On the other hand, Brooks seems to think of the culture war over traditional marriage as an expendable sort of culture war. It’s a culture war that we should opt out of if we decide, in Brooks’ words, that “the defining face of social conservatism” is not one that is winning over our neighbors. If talking about marriage and the more explicit features of the Sexual Revolution makes us politically anathema, then, Brooks writes, we should change what we talk about.

But the culture war that Brooks thinks we should be having is connected in a meaningful way to the one he thinks we shouldn’t be having. Warring against society’s brokenness is, especially for Christians, a war against living, spiritual realities. Christian theology has a word for the decrepit state of our world, and the word is sin. Sin is why things are not the way they should be. For Christians who understand the world through the lens of Scripture, the battle for civilization is not ultimately a battle for civilization but a battle for souls, a battle to proclaim the victory over sin, both at the individual and societal level, achieved on the cross by the Son of God.

You can see how the term “culture war” obscures reality. For “culture war” is not, as its cynics might suggest, an intramural spat between aspiring gatekeepers but a spiritual and philosophical struggle for ideas and institutions that genuinely matter. Certainly there are skirmishes of the culture war that deserve far less attention than they receive. But my generation’s confusion about the definition of marriage is not simply a tug-of-war between the remnants of the Religious Right and the emerging “post-Christian” Left; it is a confusion about who we as human beings are, why we exist, and to Whom we belong.

I think David Brooks understands this. What I wish he would have written is that the definition of marriage and the personhood of the unborn are precisely the kind of ‘transcendence” that social conservatives must be speaking into our culture. I wish he would have directed our attention to the legacy of the pro-life movement, a generation of “culture warriors” who have fought in the shadow of Roe v. Wade for 40 years to win not just laws but hearts and imaginations to see the personhood of the unborn. From free health clinics to crisis pregnancy centers to shelters for those fleeing the sex industry, pro-life conservatives have spoken a Gospel word of hope and salvation to a post-Roe society, a word that has borne much fruit and will, I believe, bear much more. Would such fruit have happened if these pro-lifers had determined that the cause of the unborn was no longer a “persuasive witness”?

The Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage last Friday may not be as lethal as its redefinition of personhood in 1973, but the fact remains that marriage is a transcendent, spiritual institution, one whose right ordering is of urgent interest in any society that wishes to flourish. It matters that our laws reflect a proper valuation homes with mothers and fathers. This is a culture war worth carrying on, because culture war isn’t just political theater. It’s a conversation about the shape of our society and where we must go to thrive. That’s a question worth getting right.

John Mark N. Reynolds #fundie patheos.com

Can you be moral without God?

Of course you can, if by being “without God” one means not believing God exists. One can breathe without thinking air exists, after all. Humans are very good at denying the existence of a thing they need and use. I have known many moral atheists and have learned important lessons about living a good life from a few of them. Obviously, you can deny the existence of God and still be a very decent person.

Can you be moral without God?

Of course you cannot, because God exists (and reasonable people know He exists) so that there is nothing a person can do without God. The attribute of omnipresence rules out doing anything God isn’t around to experience.

I think what the question probably means: is God a necessary component in living a moral life whether you acknowledge Him or not? God might be helpful in living a moral life by telling you when you are making moral mistakes for example, but is He necessary?

He is.

This is true for three basic reasons: His sustaining us, His law, and His revelation.

First, God sustains our very existence as beings. He is by definition “the ground of being.” There is nothing we can do without His involvement. He is and so we are. Because we are free will beings, God is not the primary reason for our decisions, but He is the overarching cause for our having free will and minds capable of choosing.

Second, God has created the world with natural and moral laws. We can discover both types of laws without referring to God and even use them to fly a plane or feed the poor. Our choices determine which we do, but it is God that created and sustains both types of laws.

I am not suggesting that God intervenes constantly to prop up the cosmos and morality. He exists and permeates the cosmos and the moral universe. He sustains, but He does more than sustain. He undergirds meaning and value. Our moral choices matter because He exists to provide the absolute standard of goodness. He has, in all fullness, the property of goodness and so becomes the standard by which all goodness can be measured.

God is also all knowing, including what might have been if we had chosen differently. We can measure the outcome of our moral choices based on this knowledge, but only God could reveal such truth to us. The cosmos is so complex that such knowledge would be too wonderful for us without His revelation.

Divine revelation is necessary for complete morality because being moral is (in part) unknowable. The universe is so complicated and our passions so messed up by our brokenness that we need God to tell us aspects of the moral law that would otherwise escape our notice.

As Aristotle pointed, out morality is not usually dealing with actions that are always wrong. Sane humans agree with the moral law that it is always wrong to torture people for fun. Fortunately, most of our moral dilemmas do not deal with such terrible choices.

Most actions we take are moral if not done too little (defect) or too much. Sometimes the outcome determines the morality of the action. For example, it is not immoral in itself to eat, but one might eat immorally! It is easy (for me!) to imagine eating too much and being a glutton or too little and becoming Scrooge about food. If God does exist and is not silent in our lives, then divine guidance would be necessary to live a fully moral life with confidence.

We might not ever be perfectly moral, but we should aspire to such goodness. Knowing how to love the people around me is not just more hopeful with God, but is possible. That we (almost always) fail (some great saints come close to success) does not mean that possibility isn’t there.

Best of all, God is not merely “good,” but goodness implies mercy and love for His broken children. We have chosen badly and only God can help us (whether we see it or not) do good with any consistency. Thank God for God!

John Mark N. Reynolds #fundie patheos.com

Today I rejoice that I stand with the long curve of history and the majority of public opinion. Jesus is Lord and remains Lord today. History often detours and His providence is inscrutable in the short term, but justice with mercy, holiness with salvation, always prevails. I am more concerned about the great states of the future that will judge us harshly and too simply. To those future people, in Korea, China, Nigeria, India, and Kenya: we were not all duped.

Most of the globe’s population marvels at the rapid plunge of America into moral decadence and our inability to defend sexual sanity. Forcing states to marry the tiny percentage of the tiny percentage of the population with same sex-attraction that wishes to marry is not our worse problem. It is a manifestation of our worst problem . . . and not the manifestation that tempts me.

We are sensualists and any party, religion, or idea that stands in the way of our personal pleasure will fail. Of course, if Plato is correct, a city can survive many vices (and God knows America has never been perfect), but the libertine city always falls. Sadly, the culture that thinks that living without a sex partner is to damn a person to a hell of loneliness will almost surely be incapable of the chastity and discipline to do great deeds.

Surely you are as horrified by our materialism and our despoiling of the planet as you are by our libertine morals. Some, like Pope Francis, saw it was one mistake, but he was ignored by everyone. We will not give up, not because you now approve of our defense, but because the only Judge whose judgment we fear is Judge Jesus. So you can be glad that bullying is still condemned in your time and there is no closet. We admit our desires and confess our sins to one another.

We did not go back, but forward to a chaste and merciful future. I am glad for that and our fight helped produce this better world.
History is spiraling to Jesus.

History is spiraling to Jesus.

I am not a legal scholar, so I will not comment on the law. I am trained as a philosopher and am an educator, so let me say this: there is no right to vice. With every saint of the Church, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant of all the centuries, five justices disagree. With every Orthodox bishop in the world, five justices disagree. With the parts of the world still having children at the replacement level, five justices disagree.

And so to the twenty-second century, to those researchers not yet born, who wonder what happened, how this was allowed, I have something simple to say: We followed the pathway of Plato outlines in his Republic and Saint Paul describes in Romans. We decided we could make laws without reference to moral principles (as if the highest good was a contract) and that love requires sex to find fulfillment. Of course, we simply enshrined our passions, hoping that if no harm happens in the short-term to the culture that no harm will occur in the long term.

Millions of young adults dissented. Millions of older Americans disagreed. We were with the four judges, all the saints, and all the bishops, but our voice, our vote, was stripped from us temporarily. We did not panic, but vowed to vote. We refused hate or vitriol, but doubled down on argument. We know that one justice decided the morals of the nation while pretending to decide the law.

Our work paid off and now you read this in a nation still free, but committed to Christian ethical ideals. You allow dissent, because we believed in the liberty of the soul. You ground your morality and law in the Truth, because you know that otherwise morality is mired in opinion and error.

We are sorry we left you so many problems. You see our errors, but not let me ask you: having gotten sexual ethics right what are you missing? Where is the Gospel being attacked in your age? Where are “liberals” arguing history is on their side? On what issue is the Church losing? Find that area and do not repeat our mistake of taking the long road to truth.

Repent. Love God and your neighbor, but realize that love is not an emotion. Love is a commitment to justice, courage, holiness, chastity, faith, hope, and moderation. We were not as mad as we seem to you and we were worse than we knew.

C. Matthew McMahon Ph.D Th.D #fundie patheos.com

A new Christian book for children, The Cage: A Young Children’s Guide to the Biblical Teaching on Hell, by C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D., Th.D., was published this month by Puritan Publications of Tennessee. McMahon is an American Calvinist Reformed theologian, adjunct professor at Whitefield Theological Seminary, and editor of A Puritan’s Mind, which the publisher’s promo describes as “the largest Reformed website on the internet for students of the Bible concerning Reformed Theology, the Puritans and Covenant Theology.”

The “tastefully illustrated” book is “aimed at children 5 to 9 years old.” The dedication page gives a taste of the dark things to come:

“But I will warn you to whom to fear: Fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!” (Luke 12:5)—

“Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell,” (Proverbs 23:14).

Those “tasteful illustrations”? Take a look at just one page:

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Here are the book’s main lessons about hell for small kids:

Hell is not a place where you can have fun. Hell is not a place where friends gather to hang around.

Hell is the furnace of fire where people go who die in their sins without being saved by Jesus— The people in hell are there forever, without any possibility of relief by the mercy or pity of God.

Who goes to hell? All people born with Adam’s sin in them go to hell if they don’t trust in Jesus— teenagers go to hell, and even little children can go to hell. Remember, little children are not too little to go hell.

Yes, this man wants parents to teach small children that Jesus will torture them in fire forever if they don’t “trust” him. I realize this is nothing new, but I will never stop being shocked by it. And now these people have the Internet and e-books to push their evil dogma.

In a “Note to Parents” in the back of the book, McMahon writes:

Some parents may be thinking that this kind of exhortation to children will give little ones horrible nightmares— It would be better for them to have nightmares now while you teach them about the realities of hell— than to wind up in the reality of the nightmare that is hell. To the Christian parent of young children, I plead with you to— teach your children about hell and the power of God’s wrath. Teach them that Christ is their only hope— Teach them that they are locked in a spiritual cage and that it dangles over the fires of hell.

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Profoundly disturbing. And not just for teaching children that “woe” is a verb. The book ends with “Bible Verses Concerning Hell,” including these:

“For a fire is kindled by my anger, and shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.”

“Let death seize them; Let them go down alive into hell.”

“And if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body should be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.”

“Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet— These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.”

Bryan Fischer #fundie patheos.com

[ RE: the Vanity Fair cover featuring Caitlyn Jenner ]

“Those of us that are saying this is not a good thing, those of us that are saying this is bad for Bruce Jenner, bad for his future, we are showing far more compassion to him than the editors of Vanity Fair— They are showing no compassion for him, no genuine care for him because they are celebrating his progress down a pathway that could lead him to kill himself. I would suggest to you that there is absolutely zero compassion, zero love in aiding and abetting someone’s mental illness, a mental illness that could drive them to self-destruction.“

Tony Morris #fundie patheos.com

Jehovah’s Witnesses Governing Body member Tony Morris is the host of the January video on the new JW online television network and what he says is a terrifying tirade against higher education.

You can see the full episode here since it’s not embeddable, but in short, they show us that what JWs fear the most is being challenged on their beliefs — and places where your beliefs are scrutinized are to be avoided at all costs.

Here are some of the highlights:

At the 4:30 mark:

— all too often, our young people have met with spiritual disaster, especially after leaving home and living on a university campus. So parents and children, you need to have a goal and you need to have a plan. If you’re missing either one, Satan will provide it for you. Young people, ask yourself: Why am I considering additional education? Is it because I’m pursuing a specific skill or trade to support my service to Jehovah? Or have I been pressured by the system into believing that higher education will somehow make me a more respected person or lead me to a better life?

6:10:

If we are in continued association with those who do not believe the same, it can erode our thinking and convictions— It is one thing to work on a job with others, and quite another matter to immerse oneself in an institution of “learning.”

(He actually did hand quotes for that last word.)

9:44:

I have long said: the better the university, the greater the danger. The most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous. One mom, I recall, asked me to try and help her son who was attending a prestigious-name university in Rhode Island. After visiting him, I later had to inform her that her son now believed in evolution. She refused to believe it until he finally told her himself. How sad.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

One moment during the lowest point of their journey, when all seems lost in the black ashes of Mordor, Samwise Gamgee asks Frodo whether he can remember the taste of good food and the feeling of warmth. Frodo’s reply has haunted me often:

‘No, I am afraid not, Sam,” said Frodo. ‘At least, I know that such things happened, but I cannot see them. No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me. I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire.”

I don’t think I have ever read anything that more poetically expresses what it’s like to be addicted to pornography than that passage.

Of course, that’s not what J.R.R. Tolkien was going for. In fact, Tolkien never quite fully fleshes out what kind of psychological affect the One Ring has on Frodo or Gollum or any other bearer. In a way, the lack of specific detail enhances the horror of both Gollum and Frodo’s transformations; we don’t know what exactly is going on inside them, but we can hear their cries.

The corrosive effect of porn on the soul is likewise shrouded in that kind of agonizing mystery. As someone who was rescued from severe bondage to porn, I can feel the contrast in my life now versus my life then much more keenly than I can describe it. I feel emotional lightness, I suppose, and I no longer live in that withering dread of exposure that colored every human encounter. But there’s something deeper, something in the inner chambers that seems to be pointed in another direction, almost as if I’d spent my entire life in a basement and have just recently seen through a window.

What does Frodo mean by “naked in the dark”? I’m not entirely sure, but I do know that the metaphor rings true when applied to porn. Porn requires nakedness, and that is part of its appeal, but the nakedness it demands is in the darkness, so that the porn addict can neither see himself clearly or the object of his desire clearly (and those are often the same thing). To be naked in the dark is to be blind and vulnerable, unable to cover oneself because of the darkness, and unwilling to walk into light until clothed.

Interestingly, the One Ring frequently tricks its wearer into thinking that he is the rightful owner of the Ring’s power and is thus entitled to it (this is Samwise’s temptation earlier in The Return of the King). The Ring initially bestows a false sense of glory, but then what happens, according to Frodo? “Naked in the dark.” The Ring promises to make kings but only creates servants.

Pornography’s primal appeal is erotic but its deepest appeal is spiritual. Viewers come for the titillation but they stay for the autonomy, the power to make an alternate reality in which mythological figures (actors and models) submit unhesitatingly. But like the One Ring, this is an illusion, one that conceals porn’s slavish designs. This is one reason pornography is not merely an aberrant species of sex, but something different from sex altogether. Sex, even prostitution, requires reality and knowledge; porn depends on fantasy and ignorance. Like the Ring, pornography promises kingship but delivers only serfdom.

Freedom comes for Frodo after the Ring was destroyed. Tolkien describes the moment right the Ring falls, with Gollum, into the volcanic Crack of Doom:

‘Well, this is the end, Sam Gamgee,’ said a voice by his side. And there was Frodo, pale and worn, and yet himself again; and in his eyes there was peace now, neither strain of will, nor madness, nor any fear. His burden was taken away.

When the Ring was destroyed, Frodo’s enslaved state of mind was destroyed too. So it seems that the nefarious power of the Ring included the eventual melding of its wearer’s mind with the Ring’s own mind. The Ring joined its evil nature to the nature of the One who desired it, so that the fate of the one was connected to the other.

This is true in a meaningful way of addiction. Theologian G.K. Beale has written about a motif in biblical literature whereby those who worship idols eventually become like the idols they worship. The Old Testament prophets seem to believe that to worship a false god is to, in a sense, take on the nature of that god, so that those who worship a god that cannot hear, speak, or move, likewise become deaf, mute, and impotent.

What about those who worship porn? Porn is illusory, and indeed, those addicted to it are often deeply disconnected from reality. Porn is cruel; those hooked on it are frequently manipulative and exploitive of others. And porn is dark, and very many people in its hold live under thick layers of secrecy and isolation.

Pornography is torture. Even in the midst of its most pleasurable delusions, it tortures the mind and spirit. Like Frodo under the spell of the Ring, people trapped in the compulsions of pornography often cannot imagine the tastes and smells and sights of life in the light and the open air, the warmth of existence not shrouded in shame. The Ring could only be destroyed in the place it was made. The same is true of pornography; its shackles can only be undone in the spiritual realm, the realm where the shackles were forged.

Like Frodo, Christ entered the heart of darkness’s domain. He did so for Ring-bearers who couldn’t even take the journey towards their freedom. In Christ the power of sin was destroyed forever so that those united with him can be rid of their hellish burden. “Peace I leave with you,” Jesus said. “My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.”

Marge Fenelon #fundie patheos.com

[On the upcoming TV show "The Real O'Neals", Dan Savage's sitcom about an Irish Catholic family]

Do you remember the Battle of Lepanto? The battle, which took place on October 7, 1571, has become known as the “battle that saved the Christian West.” It’s considered the most important naval conquest in human history because during the battle, the fleet of the Holy League defeated the fleet of the Ottoman Empire against impossible odds, stopping the expansion of the Ottoman Empire.

The Holy League fleet fought gallantly, but the real power behind the victory was the Rosary. At the time of the battle, Pope Pius V had a premonition that the victory would be won through the Rosary prayers of the Faithful. The Rosary was prayed, and the battle was won.

Now we face another Lepanto battle of sorts - the Savage attack on the Church through “The Real O’Neals.” Simply because the show’s pilot has been produced does not mean the show will succeed, and we can see to its demise by taking up our Rosaries and praying for victory over evil.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

[An article on what to and not to do when a Christian members of your church do something incredibly awful and or stupid.]

6.) Don’t ever, ever, ever, EVER even passively, suggestively, or indirectly legitimize or rationalize bitterness and suspicion towards the church. If someone says to you, “This is why I don’t go to church,” they might think they’re telling the truth, but they’re not. They don’t love the church because they don’t love Jesus. Saying, “Yes, you have a point, church can be so frustrating” feels like empathy, but it’s not. It’s self-preserveration at the cost of slandering Christ’s body.

Cindy Jacobs #fundie patheos.com

One of the unusual ways God sometimes uses me for healing is turning metal into bone. I made a call to those who had lost mobility because of metal pins, rods, or wires in their bodies. The healings were spectacular. Formerly frozen shoulders were healed, and others were once again able to bend over, move their feet, or run.

There was a woman who had a bone protruding out from under her chest cavity because of a car accident, and it completely vanished! The goodness of God was truly being made visible to the people.

Rick Santorum #fundie patheos.com

It’s a hostility to religion that we’ve never seen in the history of our country. And I read an interesting article the other day; it’s actually not the free exercise of religion that is being attacked, it’s actually a new religion that is being established. So we have the state establishing a new religion, a secular state religion, a secular orthodoxy that everybody is going to have to comply with.

We have the state establishing a new religion, a secular state religion, a secular orthodoxy that everybody is going to have to comply with. We have now the secular church that is being imposed on this country and anybody that defects is subject to persecution and prosecution. That is a very serious threat to liberty in America.

Sylvia Ann Driskell #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

Nebraska woman sues all homosexuals in federal court

Plaintiffs:
I Sylvia Ann Driskell
Ambassador for Plaintiffs
God, and His, Son, Jesus Christ

Defendants:
Homosexuals
Their Given Name Homosexuals
Their, Alis Gay

Ambassador: I Sylvia Ann Driskell ambassador for Plaintiffs do set forth on this 30 day of 2015 in writing this Petition to the United State District Court of Omaha, Omaha, Nebraska On behalf of the Plintiffs: God, and His, Son, Jesus Christ.

Ambassador: I Sylvia Ann Driskell ambassador for the Plaintiffs: God, and His, Son, Jesus Christ: Petition Your Honor, and Court of the United State District Court of Omaha, Omaha, Nebraka, To be heard in the matter of homosexuality. Is Homosexuality a sin, or not a sin,

Defendant’s Homosexuals: The Homosexuals say that its not a sin to be a homosexual, An they have the right to marry, to be parents, And God doesn’t care that their homosexuals, because He loves them.

Ambassador: I Sylvia Ann Driskell, refer Your Honor to paragraph 3, line 2 of Defendant’s, Homosexuals say that its not a sin, to be a homosexual.

Plaintiff’s: God tells his children in Leviticus Chapter 18 verse 22. Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination.

Plaintiff’s: God also tells his Children in Romans Chapter 1 verse 26, 27. Romans 1:26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affection: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans Chapter 1, verse 27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; Men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Ambassador: I Sylvia Ann Driskell: Your Honor, I’ve heard the boasting of the Defendant: the Homosexuals on the world news; from the young, to the old; to the rich an famous, and to the not so rich an famous; How they were tired of hiding in the closet, and how glad they are to be coming out of the closet.

Plaintiff’s: God, tells his Children in Romans Chapter 1, vere 28, And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.

Ambassador: I Sylvia Ann Driskell, Contend that homosexuality is a sin, and that they the homosexuals know it is a sin to live a life of homosexuality. Why else would they have been hiding in a closet.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

I invite you to join many Christians around the nation in praying today as the Supreme Court hears oral arguments over the power of states to define marriage between one man and one woman.

#PrayForMarriage is more than a prayer for legal victory (though it isn’t less). It’s a prayer for a cultural renewal, for awakening from the toxic slumber of the Sexual Revolution and awareness that marriage and family are gifts from a Creator and not social constructions to be bended at will. #PrayForMarriage isn’t about the Left vs. the Right. It’s not about who is elected where. It’s about the need for children to be born into a society that values them enough to give them a mother and a father.

The Supreme Court’s power is significant, but it is limited to legal recognition. The Court cannot “redefine” marriage any more than the Court can establish the three-fifth personhood of slaves or the non-personhood of the unborn. What the Court can do is codify legal recognition of truths–or untruths. #PrayForMarriage isn’t a hand-wringing exercise in which our hope for marriage or future generations is pinned on the consensus of nine people. As Russell Moore says, “Marriage is resilient.” It’s not man-made and therefore cannot be man-unmade.

Perhaps you are a supporter of same-sex marriage. Perhaps you find it intolerable that anyone would suggest that two men or two women cannot get married. My challenge for you is this: Listen to the arguments themselves. Expand your perspective to include thousands of years of human civilization and legal history. Don’t dismiss those you disagree with as “homophobes.” Some might be, but many aren’t, and their voices are learned and should be heard.

Perhaps you are a Christian who thinks this entire debate is unnecessarily divisive and unfortunate. Perhaps you wish we could get back to loving our neighbors and caring for the poor and not talk about same-sex marriage anymore. My challenge for you is this: Think of future generations. Think of people who will come after you’ve gone. Imagine a culture which by its legal system holds the union of a mother and a father in contempt and declares it irrelevant to the modern mind and unnecessary to the well-being of a child. Surely this is worth striving for. The gulf between compassion and conviction may not be as wide as you think; in fact, they may be one and the same.

Let us pray that our nation would value all life. Let us pray that our law would privilege those with the smallest voice and the greatest stake. Let us pray that the cornerstone of culture would be honored not only in the Supreme Court but in churches and communities and living rooms across our land.

Pray for marriage today.

Love Christ #fundie patheos.com

FYI you atheists... America was FOUNDED by puritan Christians.

That's right, Puritan Christians laid their lives down for YOU to have the freedom to believe you came from a rock....

This is a Christian Country, like it or not. Congress printed out BIBLES in the late 1700's/early 1800's and passed them out to ALL THE SCHOOLS.... The Word of God is the foundation of this Country.

Go to communist China you g-dless fools.

This is a Christian Country.

Love Christ #conspiracy patheos.com

I guess Patheos is good friends with the treasonous domestic terrorists Peter Reilly of Forbes.com (a CPA agent for the IRS) and Robert Baty, an IRS agent who gets paid to slander Pastor Kent Hovind...

The Peter Reilly, Robert Baty IRS/CPA's, Patheos and Freedom From Religion Atheists all working together!

You guys, seriously, please keep helping us put the evidence together... It's fantastic you guys are helping Christian American wake up.

Ayatollah Hossein Dehnavi #fundie #sexist #homophobia patheos.com

The Ayatollah Hossein Dehnavi is a television star and celebrity in Iran, where he offers advice on family and sexual matters. The Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) regularly airs Dehnavi pontificating on marriage, sex, child rearing, and pregnancy, while many Iranians line up and pay big money to see the leading Islamic cleric speak in person.

Dehnavi teaches that men who fantasize about other women while impregnating their wife will cause their children to be homosexual. Dehnavi claims that if a man is thinking of another woman during sex, and the sexual act results in pregnancy, “then the child will be a homosexual.”

Dehnavi also claims that the improper wearing of the hijab by a woman can also cause some men to become homosexual, stating:

Women incorrectly wearing the hijab leads to homosexuality among men.

Dehnavi also teaches that women must always submit to the sexual demands of their husband. According to Dehnavi:

Women have to provide sex to their men anywhere and at anytime.

According to Dehnavi, women should not seek sexual gratification for themselves, and are forbidden to try and “satisfy” themselves after their husband’s climax because such activity is considered a sin.

Most of Dehnavi’s advice is aimed at women. Dehnavi even advises women on wardrobe choices like the color of underwear to wear:

Those who have pale skin should wear black underwear. And those with darker or bronze skin should wear white underwear to arouse their husbands. Make sure your husband can see your underwear.

Dehnavi also warns women about having too much sex, advising sexual activity be limited to a maximum of “only twice a week, not every day” because “otherwise the man will become saturated.”

Dehnavi is popular with the public as well as hardliners within the conservative Iranian theocracy. Previously the Minister of Health, Marzieh Vahid Dastjerdi, honored Dehnavi with a “Better Health” award for his television work.

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Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

The internal logic of Bake For Them Two would also fail if applied to a number of other controversial topics that progressive Christians tend to protest against. Take spanking. Should someone who believes that spanking is immoral agree to babysit for a parent who spanked their children and instructed the babysitter to do likewise? Would carrying out corporal punishment on behalf of the parent amount to a “bake for them two” moment, a chance to sacrifice personal comfort to accommodate someone else? If you say no, then already you’ve granted the existence of moral dilemmas in which accommodation is not a sufficient option. “But spanking is abuse, and same-sex relationships don’t harm anyone.” That’s the point, though: If same-sex marriage is what the Christian baker says it is, then to him, the wedding ceremony is indeed harmful to the couple and others. The only way around this problem is to advance a clear moral proposition (“Same-sex marriage is good”), the very thing that opponents of religious liberty laws say shouldn’t happen in a public exchange.

My guess though is that the Christians who favor a “bake for them two” approach don’t track with this logic for the same reason they don’t track with most critiques of same-sex marriage in general: They actually don’t quite understand what they support. This was the point brought out brilliantly by my friend Matthew Anderson in a piece from yesterday about the “illiberal DNA” of the same-sex marriage movement. Matt begins by supposing marriage is indeed unchangeable in its definition and irreducible in its purpose (=the traditionalist Christian argument). Given that, would not a floor-to-ceiling revolution in our understanding of something as foundational as marriage require absolute enforcement in almost every aspect of our culture?

Erasing or obscuring the moral uniqueness of the traditional nuclear family unit—if there is one— would require, dare I say, both an extensive and elaborate artifice that attempted to reconfigure not simply the family, but all those institutions which the family has some bearing upon. Maintaining such a support would require the most powerful and influential institutions in American life, of which there are currently (by way of hypothesis) three: entertainment, business, and the government. And as long as those dominant institutions established such an outlook on the world, any remaining institutions would come under significant pressure to reform themselves accordingly.

In other words, you cannot believe that marriage is X without also believing it’s not Y. Conversely, there’s no future for trying to make marriage equal X + Y if X and Y actually say opposite things which yield opposite effects in every aspect of our public and–yes–personal life.

What does it all mean? It means that anywhere there is belief, there will be conscience, and that changes to one will alter the other eventually. Wherever people believe in their own heart that marriage is invented by God and exists only in a covenantal state between a man and a woman, their conscience will follow suit and apply that belief in practical ways to their living and their doing. Asking people to surrender their public conscience is the same as asking them to change their beliefs. Of course, beliefs change without being forced. People become convinced otherwise, or they eventually lose confidence in prior held beliefs. That’s how humanity works.

It’s also how conversion to Christian faith works. That’s why there’s no safe space in the debate over same-sex marriage to argue for a conscientious Christian accommodation. There’s no such thing. Protecting the pattern of human belief that can be opened to the Gospel means protecting the freedom of the conscience. This protection can happen even if, as I’ve argued, culture disagrees uniformly with that conscience. But in the case of same-sex marriage, the debate over RFRA, and misguided Christian attempts to end-around the basic principles of conscience and culture, it’s becoming clear that there really is no way to have your cake and bake it too.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

First of all, Garbarino’s subtle implication that the reaction from pastors might be different if the mayor were not a “lesbian Democrat” is absurd, unfair and more than a tad manipulative. It also seems strange given that he admits that the request is “disturbing” and “a violation” of church-state relations. Is he implicating himself here?

Secondly, I don’t buy the “evangelism at any cost” argument. Yes, pastors should want government officials to hear the Gospel. Yes, the pastors of Jesus’s flocks should be preaching gospel-centered hope.

But a group of city attorneys’ scanning sermon manuscripts for the words “homosexual,” “gay,” and “sin” hardly constitutes an evangelistic encounter. Evangelism is not merely any in-your-face occurence of Bible + person; otherwise we should be encouraging Christians to–as the mayor’s office is doing–subvert law and order to get the message out, perhaps by trashing an abortion clinic and leaving tracts or by picketing a mosque. When Christians are careful to explain why such behavior is not acceptable, they emphasize that the how of Gospel ministry matters just as much as the what. The how of turning in sermon manuscripts to the city government would be an endorsement of injustice in the name of evangelism.

Third, the phrase “inflammatory untruths” is one that needs authoritative definition. The trick is deciding who has that authority. Does Mayor Parker? Does the Texas legislature? Does each congregation decide? Garbarino?

Arguing that pastors should have nothing to hide is the right response to the wrong issue. If this case involved a local pastor’s running for public office, then we could naturally expect his and his church’s teachings to come under scrutiny. In that case I too would say that pastors ought have nothing shameful to hide. But this subpoena concerns local pastors who aren’t even named in the civil suit against the government. The possibility of embarrassing or unbiblical teaching is as irrelevant here as the possibility that Michael Brown would have grown up to be a criminal. It’s a mistake of sequence: The mayor’s office is unjust and unlawful in demanding these sermons, therefore, the pastors should not have to justify themselves to it.

I understand Garbarino’s concern that Christians maintain primary citizenship in the kingdom of God and not conflate that with citizenship in America. That’s a message that needs to be heard. But it’s not the point here. The point is that submitting to this gross act of bullying would be disastrous not just for religious folk but for citizens of Houston in general. Government transgression of civil liberty doesn’t just happen to one particular group; when it happens, it is a violation of everybody’s civil liberty. Pastoral resistance to Mayor Parker’s demands is crucial for the upholding of law on behalf of everyone in Houston, straight or gay, black or white, pastor or layperson.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

But secular progressives don’t think of religion this way. If pressed on the issue of why progressive Christianity has failed and is currently failing, most will either mutter something about “fundamentalism” and pretend to get a phone call, or they will throw their hands up and admit that religion just exists outside of rational life. By definition, secular progressives don’t attribute this kind of gravitas to religious life. It’s the John’s baptism trap: If religion comes from above, why don’t you believe, and if it comes from below, how dare you?

So then, writers like Bruni carry on the hopeful vision of a progressive religious life, one that is continually in flux and adaptable to the demands of modernity. They disbelieve that the same evangelicals who carry iPhone 6 in their pockets can actually have their epistemological and social lives constrained by tales from 4th century Palestine. The real culprit is homophobia, and evangelicals’ “obeisance” is offered not to God but to oppressive traditions built on power.

So how should evangelicals respond to this? Well, there is both good news and bad news on that front.

The bad news is this: There really isn’t a good way to argue against bad faith. When Bruni and others rage against RFRA, they are not raging against the protection of beliefs, they are raging against the protection of hypocritical ones. RFFA MUST be coverage for homophobia, because Christians are no more constrained to believe antiquarian homilies on marriage than they are constrained to conquer Jericho and enslave its inhabitants.

If Bruni will not grant good faith to evangelicals and admit that in 2015 millions of Americans can love LGBT neighbors while believing they were created for something different, then there’s no logical riposte possible. Bruni quotes a “gay philanthropist” as saying “church leaders must be made ‘to take homosexuality off the sin list.’” Is that a threat? Yes. Is it anti-pluralism? Yes. But if the whole thing is just a hoax anyway, who cares?

But there is good news. When Christians see public, outright rejection of the basic precepts of religious faith, we know the field is ripe unto harvest. Debate, argumentation, and policy have their place. But a post-Christian culture needs Christian churches more urgently than it needs Christian influence. If it takes the shriveling of the margins of civic life–until evangelical conscience is deemed an enemy of the state–to rekindle the flame of the Great Commission in American evangelical congregations, then so be it. Let the epic collapse of demythologized and de-Christianized American religion signal again the showdown between the only two worldviews possible for society: Jesus, or nothing.

Samuel James #wingnut patheos.com

What concerns me, though, is the possibility that Mr. Cook, and many of his fellow liberals, actually do understand what Jim Crow laws were, what the Indiana RFRA does, and still believe that a connection between the two is logical. What we’ve seen in American culture over the last few years is a tectonic shift in how many on the left think about the relationship between sexual politics and law. Emerging is a portrait of what my friend Alastair Roberts calls “New Morality.” New Morality is a specific narrative about human ethics, particularly the sexual kind, that places certain moral demands on all who want to participate in public life. The New Morality is specific about what must happen to those who refuse its worldview: They must relinquish the right to be heard.

New Morality is not liberalism, at least the way liberalism is often explained. Most social conservatives see the major threat of liberalism as permissiveness, the sanctioning of immoral or un-American behavior that threatens the social order. There’s still truth in that, of course, but New Morality is actually the opposite of permissiveness, it is prescription. It’s not quite right to think of New Morality liberalism as simply allowing too many things. Rather, by subjugating civil life to a set of postmodern doctrines about the autonomous self, it allows too few. Dissent has become heresy, and heresy cannot co-exist with the pure faith. We used to picture liberalism as pushing the boundaries of our conscience. New Morality liberalism has found an entirely new conscience, and seeks to shrink the margins, not expand them.

The belief that the Indiana RFRA is a license for discrimination is coherent only if one believes that offering any sort of legal recourse for businesses in discrimination lawsuits is itself intolerant. But that’s exactly where the times have taken us. We have arrived at a place where prominent columnists can speak openly about “stamping out” voices who disagree with New Morality. We see private Christian universities punished for hiring policies consistent with their charters and articles of faith. We see the personal lives of judges carefully screened and regulated for anti-New Morality activity. What is being created before our eyes is in no way secular. It is religion, and religious orthodoxy is the price of citizenship.

So then, we come back to the issue of what liberalism means. My question is: Who are today’s liberals? Who are the ones who will protest the creation of a state faith in New Morality and argue for the public inclusion of those with differing opinions? Who will widen the margins of civic life? Where are the true Jeffersons, the spokespeople for pluralism, the lovers of debate and of bottom-up cultural creation?

Can we find those liberals who defer to debate and persuasion rather than fiat and coercion? I’m afraid we have no choice. This isn’t about special protection for or the privileging of evangelicalism; it’s about recovering a sense of belonging for all in the public square. To be liberal is to believe that no social orthodoxy is ever worth more than freedom of conscience. That is precisely the conviction that is at risk today. Against this backdrop, Indiana’s RFRA is a fundamentally liberal law. The question is: Where are its liberal champions?

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

What Sullivan doesn’t have a right to do, however, is willfully misrepresent, which is exactly what he is doing. Sullivan’s glowing language about the transformative power of ideas to win democracy is not in any way the journey that same-sex marriage has taken. The republican process–government by the people and for the people–was utterly subverted in gay marriage’s journey to legalization. This was not the victory of the people, it was the victory of the elites, the fruit of a generation’s worth of ideological monopology over education and mass media. Sullivan’s notion that same-sex marriage has won the minds and hearts of Americans may be true one day; it might be more true now than I believe. But it is absolutely not the reason that the Supreme Court rejected appeals from voter-elected legislatures.

The most important word in same-sex marriage’s legal narrative has not been “voter” or “public,” but “judge.” The transformation of the judiciary into a moral arbiter of the people started a long time ago, and gay marriage advocates were certainly not the first to benefit from it. I could write thousands of words about why such an alter-ego of district, circuit and Supreme Courts is politically disastrous, but that’s not my point. My point is that even if you applaud the imposition of moral values onto voters in places like South Dakota, Indiana, and Kentucky, you cannot then double back and call such legal triumphs “democracy.” Doing so is not an issue of worldview, it’s an issue of base dishonesty. There is nothing democratic about a piece of civic law that is passesd overwhelmingly by a state’s electorate only to be weighed in the balance and found wanting by an utterly remote, utterly unaccountable philosopher-king.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

[Keep in mind this is about the ERLC who worked with the AFA and think labeling the AFA as that is "an attack"]

Secondly, the ERLC exemplifies, in my view, a model of evangelical cultural engagement. From my vantage point, I can see two major errors plaguing much evangelical public dialogue. The first error is outrage culture, characterized by cultural arrogance, lack of empathy, and poverty of the imagination. Think of this as fundamentalism’s wild haymakers. The second error is a non-confessional, non-evangelical capitulation to the spirit of the age. Forgive the uncouth word picture here, but I almost think of this as the sweat of fundamentalism. It’s a cultural mood meant to correct the hot headed and heavy handed “clobber” of fundamentalism but without giving a biblically responsible alternative. The ERLC has consistently rose above these traps and spoken with a “convictional kindness,” the warm orthodoxy of the New Testament and Christian history. No one is perfect or does this perfectly, yet a consistent pattern is not only possible, it’s commanded by the Lord and mandatory for our mission.

Third, Russell Moore and the ERLC take our culture seriously. They take the ideas of culture seriously. That’s why the ERLC is a consistent source of relevant perspective on current topics. Rather than retreat into a self-referential hole or apathetically chalk everything up to “opinions” or “perspectives” that are all “equal” (which really means all worthless), the ERLC believes that God has something to say about every part of the human story. As theologian Abraham Kuyper said, there’s no part of the universe that Jesus doesn’t claim for his own.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

[From a "article" about how Christians should be debating with their Atheist friends]

3) Only supernatural theism provides a rational justification of scientific work.

The wording of this point is very important. If we left out the word “rational,” then the statement would actually be false and quite easy to shoot down. You don’t need supernatural theism to be curious, or to want to explore the natural world. But you do need supernatural theism to have a rational justification of science. What does the word rational mean there? It means that scientific inquiry done on the assumption that there is no higher intelligence than evolved human intelligence is making a value judgment that it has no right to make.

Why is knowledge better than ignorance? The atheist would respond that ignorance has less survival value than truth; after all, if you believe wrong things or do not know enough about your environment, you’re less likely to survive and flourish. But this explanation only applies to a very small amount of scientific knowledge. There is little survival value in knowing, for example, the complicated workings of time–space theory, or the genus of certain insects, or the distance of Jupiter from Mars. All of these facts are pursued by scientists as being intrinsically valuable, yet they offer very little information that can help guarantee a species’ continued existence on the planet.

The real explanation is that scientists pursue these facts because there is intrinsic value in knowing what is true about the world, regardless of how much help it gives us. Human beings believe that knowing is better than ignorance because they believe that truth is better than falsity, and light is better than darkness. But where does such a conclusion come from? It does not come from scientific principles. Science itself offers no self-evident account for why it should be pursued. You cannot study science hard enough to understand why you should study science at all. To study science presupposes a valuing of truth that must be experienced outside of scientific study. It is only rational to pursue scientific knowledge that doesn’t offer immediate survival value if there is some external, transcendent value in knowing truth. Theism offers an explanation for why knowing truth is valuable. Scientific atheism does not.

4) Only supernatural theism gives us assurance that real scientific knowledge is possible.

Philosopher Alvin Plantinga is famous for articulating what he calls the “evolutionary argument against naturalism.” The argument is
Alvin Plantinga

Alvin Plantinga

complicated in detail but simple in premise. Plantinga begins by putting two facts alongside each other that nearly all atheists agree on. First, the theory of evolution is true, and humans have descended from lower life forms over time. Secondly, humans are rational beings in a higher degree and superior way to lesser evolved creatures. Plantinga then points our attention towards a tension between these two facts. If human beings are a more evolved species of primate, then our cognitive faculties (ie, the parts of our body and mind that allow us to be rational creatures) have evolved out of lesser cognitive faculties. But, Plantinga says, if God does not exist, then the only factors that affected human evolution are time and chance. Based on time and chance alone, why should we be confident that our rational minds–which are merely the sum of lesser evolved minds plus time and chance–are actually rational at all? What basis do we have to believe our own conclusions? How do we know we are actually capable of knowing truth more than a primate? If the only players in our existence are lesser creatures, time, and chance, how do we know we are even highly evolved at all?

This astute observation was echoed by Thomas Nagel in his recent book Mind and Cosmos. Nagel, an agnostic philosopher from New York University, argues that human comprehension of the universe cannot be explained merely by atheistic evolutionary processes. It makes no sense to assume that humans can really make sense of their world on a conceptual level if human consciousness arose out of the very world it responds to. Nagel agrees with Plantinga that atheistic naturalism cannot explain why human beings can be rational creatures and do rational things that should be trusted.

Scientific knowledge is only possible if things unprovable by science are actually true. If Carl Sagan is correct and the material universe is all there was, is, and ever will be, then science itself is nothing more than a shot in the dark. If, however, human beings are the products of an infinitely greater Mind, then we have justification for believing that true and false are realities and not merely the shadow puppets of our ancestors.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

[On pornogrophy and how it apparently influences people.]

Is porn affecting our politics? Absolutely it is. Research released a couple years ago showed that support for same-sex marriage among heterosexual men rose in proportion to how much pornography they consumed. Medical research also has revealed that pornography leaves a significant cognitive imprint on those who use it. Secularists may chalk all this up to nothing more than culture’s escape from Puritanism, but that conclusion is merely a cop-out. There’s no worldview synthesis that can make sense of the bedfellowship between same-sex marriage and 50 Shades; it’s just what’s there after sexual nihilism moves in.

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

[From an "article" titled "How Atheism Empowers ISIS"]

I think Gobry is absolutely correct here. Contemporary secular progressives simply do not trade in the marketplace of metaphysical ideas. Consider the state of American higher education, an institution nearly monopolized by Vulgar Marxism. Studies like philosophy, literature and religion are in decline and increasingly viewed with utilitarian contempt, while gender studies and psychology are the disciplines of choice for vast swaths of students who demand an endless supply of “trigger warnings.” Social sciences are conducive to Vulgar Marxism because they can be reduced to interpersonal tensions of race, class, and privilege, while Plato and Thomas Aquinas are too busy talking about invisible realities that bind the entire human narrative together.

Gobry’s term Vulgar Marxism reminds me of a similar term coined by philosopher Michael Novak, “vulgar relativism.” In his 1994 acceptance speech for the Templeton Prize, Novak identified vulgar relativism as “nihilism with a happy face,” and said that its noxious effect on both the mind and the heart was a symbolic red carpet for brutal oppression:

For [relativists], it is certain that there is no truth, only opinion: my opinion, your opinion. They abandon the defense of intellect. There being no purchase of intellect upon reality, nothing else is left but preference, and will is everything. They retreat to the romance of will.

But this is to give to Mussolini and Hitler, posthumously and casually, what they could not vindicate by the most willful force of arms. It is to miss the first great lesson rescued from the ashes of World War II: Those who surrender the domain of intellect make straight the road of fascism. Totalitarianism, as Mussolini defined it, is la feroce volanta . It is the will-to-power, unchecked by any regard for truth. To surrender the claims of truth upon humans is to surrender Earth to thugs.

In other words, embracing the secular atheistic worldview is in fact laying out a welcome mat for terrorists like ISIS. Of course, not all atheists are aggressively relativistic or Marxist, but it is indisputable that the overwhelming majority of such articulations come from atheistic voices. Crank atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris write glowingly about a future sans religion, which will supposedly signal the impending disappearance of violent oppressors such as ISIS. These writers conveniently ignore the fact that Europe, having spent now more than a generation as a post-Christian secular fantasy, is impotent to drive Islamic extremism from its culture. The idea that atheism disarms the forces of oppression and violence is no more credible than arming our anti-ISIS forces with water guns.

Islamic terrorism is fueled by worldview. Failure to acknowledge this basic fact stems from a latent acceptance of vulgar relativism, the idea that transcendent ideas like religion and philosophy are excuses for the racial and geopolitical stuff that’s actually REAL. Declaring religious ideas irrelevant or off-limits will continue to put the West into the vulnerable stupor that ISIS has already taken advantage of. To take ISIS seriously, we have to take its religious convictions seriously, which means taking religion per se seriously, which means, in the end, taking secular progressivism out to the trash heap.

DavidBehar #racist patheos.com

[On talking about whether or not buisnesses should be allowed to not serve people based on their belief David chimes in and says that market forces should take care of racists. A few hours of discussion later...]

Until the vile feminist lawyer destroyed the black family in the 1960's, even during the worst of the KKK era, the terror wing of the Democratic party, black social pathologies were slightly higher than those of whites. Slightly higher unemployment, bastardy rates, crime victimization rates, slightly lower incomes. So your family was actually doing fairly well. That is why black soldiers fought well for their country.

To take it to an extreme. Sally Hemmings, the mistress of Thomas Jefferson, accompanied him to France while he was ambassador. Upon setting foot on French soil, she, her children and her brother were free. Then, after a few years, of high living, it was time to return to the US. All returned, preferring American slavery to French freedom and high living

Samuel James #fundie patheos.com

[Talking about upcoming marriage and how if marriage is not between a man and woman and a contract with God he will be doing it wrong and sinning against both his fiance and himself]

If marriage is what Stan Mitchell now says it is, then no matter how fun our honeymoon is or how few arguments we have or how old we grow together, Emily and I will not truly understand what this “profound mystery” really is about. We will be doing marriage wrong, sinning against each other through ignorance of ourselves and of our union. If you believe marriage is sacred at all, whether between men and women or people of the same sex, you also believe that misunderstanding marriage carries unavoidable consequences. It is always serious to misjudge the holy.

It matters for my marriage that I understand correctly what marriage is. That’s why I can scarcely imagine how frustrated I would be to be a member of Gracepointe Church right now. If pastor Mitchell has been convinced from the biblical text that marriage has no transcendent meaning that infuses purpose into the one-flesh union of man and wife, I need to know that. I need to hear the reasons why marriage is not what the church has unanimously through history said it is. I need to know not just for my theological curiosity but for the sake of my own marriage! That’s why it grieves me to hear pastor Mitchell talk about “Selma” and “history” and “memoirs.” That’s not what Emily and I need. We don’t need reasons history books will love us if we affirm same-sex marriage. We need to know what marriage is so we can do it.

Pastor Mitchell’s evasiveness reminds me of a popular riposte from same-sex marriage advocates: “Same-sex marriage doesn’t affect you; if you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get married to a man!” From a secular worldview, this objection misses the point but there’s nothing really wrong with its basic assumptions. For the Christian, however, sentiments like that betray the belief that marriage–whether heterosexual, homosexual or otherwise–is really just common, base, and no more relevant to your life than your choice of soda or ice cream. That’s not an option for those who believe marriage is from God.

Shirley MacLaine #fundie patheos.com

Invoking the notion of karma, Shirley MacLaine outrages Jewish groups by claiming that victims of the Holocaust could have been paying the price for past life sins.

Excerpts leaked from a new book penned by the Hollywood veteran and Oscar-winner actress suggest that the six million Jews and millions of others systematically murdered in Hitler’s death camps in the 1940s were “balancing their karma” for crimes committed in past lives.

The 80 year-old actress also suggests that Professor Stephen Hawking may have given himself motor neurone disease.

The ridiculous claims have been published in MacLaine’s new memoir called What If . . . The following is an excerpt from the new book:

What if most Holocaust victims were balancing their karma from ages before, when they were Roman soldiers putting Christians to death, the Crusaders who murdered millions in the name of Christianity, soldiers with Hannibal, or those who stormed across the Near East with Alexander? The energy of killing is endless and will be experienced by the killer and the killee.

About Professor Stephen Hawking, the New Age icon writes:

Did he ‘create’ the disease that has crippled him in order to learn to be dependent on caregivers and the kindness of strangers so that he could free his entire mind to the pursuit of knowledge?

“What if he inadvertently chose to set an example of himself to show the rest of us that cosmic travel and universal understanding are available, regardless of one’s physical condition or circumstance?

She added:

If Jesus chose to die in a state of martyrdom, then Stephen Hawking could just as readily have chosen to live in a dual state of being: visibly physical weakness and unseen knowledge and power. What if all reality is an illusion?

Get ur own identity #fundie patheos.com

D-bag, you are not relevant and now want publicity, good for you, grow a pair and find your own fame. The newsboys were not a "big"band when u were with them. But now u want to take what ever tiny bit of credit you can and get 15 min of fame? No wonder you're an atheist and an unintelligent small minded being. Enjoy finding out the truth one day! Last time I checked the movie never said you had to be perfect so son who say that missed the boa but you have missed it ever since you claimed to be "atheist" all I can say is wow

Al Mahan #fundie patheos.com

Wow, a whole web site of people bragging about being "former christians" who now stand up and shake their fist to the heavens declaring that the sun is not shining. And they brag about their hope being an eternity of darkness. Wow, what a hope and inspiration you are to everyone! The belching of reprobate minds.

I am so grateful that my Savior, Jesus Christ brought life and immortality to light. The hope of eternal life through Jesus Christ gives light and hope and inspiration. Atheism brings nothing but darkness, death and depression. After all, it has been totally enforced in the USSR, China, and Cambodia. Oh how dark these self deluded "enlightened minds" become when they turn from God to experience "the blackness of darkness forever" In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I implore you all, turn to Christ Jesus before that darkness comes.

Jay #fundie patheos.com

Your hairdo and wardrobe have nothing to do with this. Atheism brings nothing positive to society. It can't give us guidance on important issues and does not lead to peace. If you want to see what atheism looks like as its worked out in politics just look at Russia when Stalin was in power. Its horrible.

Jay #fundie patheos.com

To say that atheism is a lack of belief in God and thereby excuses the atheist from showing atheism to be true with facts and sound reasons is a fantasy. That would be like me claiming Mexico doesn't exist. I can do what the atheist does and just dismiss all evidence for it out of hand.

Have you ever studied the gospels with an open mind? The life of Christ is the best evidence for the existence of God and they tell us what this God is like. Billions of people over the centuries have been convinced by them that God does indeed exist. Many of these people are some of the smartest people who have ever lived have come to believe in them.

Pastor Logan Robertson #fundie patheos.com

Westcity Bible Baptist Church Pastor Logan Robertson sent an email to a gay Christian author who was promoting his book:

"We are not interested in your filthy lifestyle or book.

Romans 1 clearly says God has rejected homos and they are worthy of death. You can not be saved.

The bible says you are vile, strange (queer), reprobate, filth, sodomite, natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed—

I pray that you will commit suicide, you filthy child molesting fag.

Pastor Logan Robertson"

New Zealand’s ONE News decided that they should really get a comment from Robertson. So they had reporter Matt McLean call him up for an interview.

Turns out McLean is also gay.

So guess how that interview went?

Pastor Robertson told Mr McLean he would not give an interview to a “filthy faggot” and he hoped that he too would commit suicide.

Robertson spoke to one reporter, presumably a straight one, and explained that he really wasn’t the bad guy here.

“I think every single one of them [homosexuals] should be put to death,” says Pastor Robertson.
“Christians shouldn’t be doing it, I’m not going to do it, it’s the Government’s job to be doing it.”

Hemant menta #fundie patheos.com

Science is at war with religion. The conflict can be traced back to the Dark Ages, a period in which the church vigorously asserted dogma and persecuted anyone who questioned its authority, including scientific pioneers such as Galileo, Copernicus, and Bruno. Fortunately the Enlightenment came along in the eighteenth century and validated methods of acquiring knowledge through evidence and testing. These methods freed scientists to pursue truth without fear of recrimination from the church. Thus the scientific revolution was born. Yet the war between religion and science continues to this day.

If you believe this rendition of history, there’s a good chance you’ve been reading a public school textbook or the New Atheists. The idea that science and religion are at odds is a popular myth in our culture, perpetuated by news headlines like “God vs. Science” in Time magazine. Of the perceived conflict, Christopher Hitchens writes, “All attempts to reconcile faith with science and reason are consigned to failure and ridicule.” Richard Dawkins writes, “I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise— It subverts science and saps the intellect.”

Although it is widely believed that science and Christianity are at odds, the opposite is actually true. There is no inherent conflict between Christianity and science. We don’t mean to suggest that religious antagonism to science has never existed. It has and does. But the history of science shows that such claims of antagonism are often exaggerated or unsubstantiated. “Once upon a time, back in the second half of the nineteenth century,” says Alister McGrath, “it was certainly possible to believe that science and religion were permanently at war— This is now seen as a hopelessly outmoded historical stereotype that scholarship has totally discredited.”

The scientific enterprise as a sustained and organized movement emerged in Christian Europe. During the sixteenth century, people from every culture studied the natural world, and yet modern science emerged in Europe, a civilization primarily shaped by the Judeo-Christian world- view. Why? Because Christianity provided the philosophical foundation as well as the spiritual and practical motivation for doing science. The Christian worldview — with its insistence on the orderliness of the universe, its emphasis on human reason, and its teaching that God is glorified as we seek to understand his creation — laid the foundation for the modern scientific revolution.


God’s Universe


Most scientific pioneers were theists, including prominent figures such as Nicolaus Copernicus (1473–1543), Robert Boyle (1627–1691), Isaac Newton (1642–1727), Blaise Pascal (1623–1662), Johannes Kepler (1571–1630), Louis Pasteur (1822–1895), Francis Bacon (1561–1626), and Max Planck (1858–1947). Many of these pioneers intently pursued science because of their belief in the Christian God. Bacon believed the natural world was full of mysteries God meant for us to explore. Kepler wrote, “The chief aim of all investigations of the external world should be to discover the rational order which has been imposed on it by God, and which he revealed to us in the language of mathematics.” Newton believed his scientific discoveries offered convincing evidence for the existence and creativity of God. His favorite argument for design related to the solar system: “This most beautiful system of sun, planets, and comets could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.”


Christopher Hitchens discounts the religious convictions of these scientific pioneers, claiming that belief in God was the only option for a scientist of the time. But this puts Hitchens in a curious dilemma. If religious believers get no credit for their positive contributions to society (e.g., shaping modern science) because “everyone was religious,” then why should their mistakes, like atrocities committed in the name of God, discredit them? This is a double standard. One cannot deny religious believers credit on the basis of “everyone was religious” and also assign blame on the same foundation. To make the case that “religion poisons everything,” Hitchens has to ignore evidence to the contrary. And he is more than willing to do so.


Dawkins accepts that some early scientific pioneers may have been Christians, but he believes Christian scientists are now a rarity: “Great scientists who profess religion become harder to find through the twentieth century.” However, in the same year that Dawkins published The God Delusion (2006), three leading scientists released books favorable to theism. Harvard astronomer Owen Gingerich released God’s Universe, arguing that an individual can be both a scientist and a believer in intelligent design. Internationally renowned physicist Paul Davies published Goldilocks Enigma, in which he argued that intelligent life is the reason our universe exists. Francis Collins, former head of the Human Genome Project, published The Language of God, in which he presents scientific and philosophical evidence for God. Incidentally, President Barack Obama appointed Francis Collins as the director of the National Institutes for Health, one of the world’s foremost medical research centers.


Naming scientists whose Christian worldview motivated their work doesn’t settle the issue of how science and religion relate. Entire books have been written on how science and religion intersect. But we do hope you see that many early scientific pioneers, as well as cutting-edge scientists today, derived their motivation for scientific research from the belief that God created the world for us to investigate and enjoy. These scientists did not view Christianity as incompatible with science.

Archbishop Lewis Zeigler #fundie #homophobia patheos.com

Gays are under attack in Liberia after many Christian leaders, including Catholic Archbishop Lewis Zeigler of Monrovia, declared Ebola to be a punishment from God for the act of homosexuality.

Earlier this year, “more than 100 Bishops, Pastors, General Overseers, Prophets, Evangelists and other Ministers of the Gospel,” met under the auspices of the Liberian Council of Churches (LCC), to deliberate about the Ebola epidemic.

Ultimately, the Christian leaders unanimously endorsed the following resolution:

“That God is angry with Liberia, and that Ebola is a plague. Liberians have to pray and seek God’s forgiveness over the corruption and immoral acts (such as homosexualism, etc.) that continue to penetrate our society. As Christians, we must repent and seek God’s forgiveness.”

Previously, Archbishop Lewis Zeigler of Monrovia publicly declared the following concerning the Ebola epidemic:

“One of the major transgressions against God for which He may be punishing Liberia is the act of homosexuality.”

dangjin1 #fundie patheos.com

. You have no evidence for interbreeding leading to new and different animals. A dog is a dog is a dog. You are desperately trying to work around the 'kind' barrier God put up n the beginning and it doesn't work.
Evolution predicts that cats do not give birth to dolphins?? ha ha, that is stating th eobvious not a scientific fact. The Bible already told us that in the Genesis, you are a little bit behind the curve.
an untrained lay person?? so your theory can only be seen by the elite who set the rules for the theory. how quaint and unfair and how circular in reasoning. with creation and the Bible God set the rules and everyone can see the truth, trained or otherwise.
You have no evidence as the idea of predictions comes from pseudo-science not real science. Plus your predictions have not been 100% accurate, so you reallly do not have that idea to stand upon.

Pastor Mark Driscoll #fundie patheos.com

The first thing to know about your penis is, that despite the way it may see, it is not your penis. Ultimately, God created you and it is his penis. You are simply borrowing it for a while.
While His penis is on loan you must admit that it is sort of just hanging out there very lonely as if it needed a home, sort of like a man wondering the streets looking for a house to live in. Knowing that His penis would need a home, God created a woman to be your wife and when you marry her and look down you will notice that your wife is shaped differently than you and makes a very nice home.

[...]

Therefore, if you are single you must remember that your penis is homeless and needs a home. But, though you may believe your hand is shaped like a home, it is not. And, though women other than your wife may look like a home, to rest there would be breaking into another man’s home. And, if you look at a man it is quite obvious that what a homeless man does not need is another man without a home.

[...]

Paul tells us that your penis actually belongs to your wife, and once you are married she will trade you it for her home (I Corinthians 7:4), and every man knows this is a very good trade for him to make.
With his penis, the man is supposed to learn to please his wife and learn how to be patient, self-controlled and be educated on how to keep his home happy and joyous (I Corinthians 7:3). The man should be aroused by his new home, and the wife should rejoice at seeing his penis rise to greet her (Song of Songs 5:14b).

Stewart Davies #fundie patheos.com

Nothing will persuade the deconstructionists as to the authenticity of the Gospels. However, for us Catholics, there is sufficient proof of authorship in the Book of Revelation. In Ch. 4 0f Revelation, St. John describes his mystical visions of the four living creatures around the throne, one with the face of a lion, one with the face of a calf, one with the face of a man, and lastly one with the face of an eagle. These are the four authors of the Gospels. The first one mentioned, the lion, represents St. Mark, the author of the first Gospel. Mark's Gospel is represented by the lion, because his Gospel focuses on the power of Jesus. The calf is St. Luke, whose Gospel deals more fully with sacrifice. The man is St. Matthew, whose Gospel focuses more on the humanity of Jesus, While St. John's Gospel 'soars like an eagle' to mystical heights that are not present in the synoptic Gospels. The order in which the four creatures are presented in Revelation also denotes the order in which the four Gospels were written. For us Catholics, no further proof than this is necessary.

Archbishop Paul Coakley #fundie patheos.com

Regarding a Satanist group holding a black mass at Oklahoma City's Civic Center Music Hall

“Even though tickets are being sold for this event as if it were merely some sort of dark entertainment, this satanic ritual is deadly serious,” Coakley wrote.

“I am especially concerned about the dark powers that this satanic worship invites into our community and the spiritual danger that this poses to all who are involved in it, directly or indirectly,” the archbishop said in his letter.

“Since it seems this event will not be canceled,” he said, “I am calling on all Catholics of the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City to counteract this challenge to faith and decency through prayer and penance.”

al #fundie patheos.com

[Fundy is asked if the death penalty for gays described in Leviticus is good]

Yes. Why do you think they had such a penalty? A free thinker should be able to tell me why.

Michael Pearl #fundie patheos.com

[From the first chapter of Created To Need A Help Meet by Michael Pearl. The infamous story everyone keeps referring to—]

My immediate goal in marriage was to make up for all those sexually frustrated years—the sooner the better. A friend of mine that married two years before I did had bragged that he was able to ‘know’ his bride five times on their wedding night. He was a puny fellow, so I had no doubt I would beat his brag, but the truth is, three times is all I could muster, and just barely. I quickly realized a single man’s concept of marriage was a bit different than the real thing. After all, it was midnight before we got to our room, and we were up at six headed to the Gulf Coast where we would honeymoon for a few days in a cottage on the beach.
It was a long day’s drive. We arrived at the cottage well after dark. We had brought all the gear for fishing and crabbing, as well as the groceries for her to prepare our meals. That way we could save a lot of money and be able to stay longer in the cabin. We dug all of the gear out of the station wagon and placed it in the cabin. Deb fixed us a big supper, after which I tried to break my record. One time and I was asleep. I woke in the middle of the night and remembered that crabs sometimes run along the beach, so I work Deb and excitedly said, “Let’s go crabbing!”
My new Mrs. complained about me not giving her enough time to find her tennis shoes. They were still packed somewhere and I was raring to go. Anyway I had seen her going barefoot many times. As we scurried along the beach she complained about not having a flashlight. I was using it up ahead to scout the way and chase crabs. I heard her say something about shells hurting her feet. For the next hour or two I ran along the seashore and she dragged along behind carrying my crab sack. I put out some of those little round traps with bait in them and we eventually got about six or eight of the little pinching critters—not enough for a meal.
That was my first time to ever go crabbing and I was having a ball. What more could a fellow ask for?
A cottage on the beach, a hot wife, plenty of crabs—this was living! We made it back to the cottage where we grabbed a couple of hours of sleep before I woke up hungry and had to make love to a woman half asleep. She was willing but not very active.
Afterward she got up and fixed us a fine breakfast. Great cook. Her mother taught her well. She wanted to go back to sleep but I talked her into going out for more crabs. By mid-afternoon we had a sack full of crabs and headed back to the cottage. Wow, was I tired. I told her I would just take a little nap while she prepared supper. I don’t know how long I slept but I awoke to her screeching and jumping about with crabs crawling all over the cabin. The silly girl had left the sack open when she was trying to get the first crab in the huge boiling kettle. I sat up in bed and offered some constructive advice and she had a personality change right there in front of me, and us not yet married 48 hours. Who could have imagined a female could carry on in such a crazy manner? I tried to calm her down but she just stomped off, leaving the French fries turning black in the hot smoking oil and the crabs crawling. I yelled at her retreating form, “I don’t need to hunt crabs; I married one!” Somehow that one remark has hung around our marriage like a ticked-off ghost. It seemed appropriate at the time.
To her credit she did come back and finish cooking. After we ate I was ready for some more sex, but she just wanted to sleep. I had read in a marriage book how women always have excuses, like being sleepy, having a headache, etc. There was a great sense of satisfaction when I was so completely able to change her mind; it wasn’t that difficult. She is wired right. It made me sleepy so I dozed off again. I was just dropping off when I heard the crash. It came from the bathroom. She looked dead l\ying there all twisted up in a weird position half in half out of the shower. The curtain and the rod lay flung out on the floor around her and water was spraying everywhere. It was one scary moment – my new bride dead on our honeymoon. I quickly turned off the water and bent to cradle her in my arms. I gently shook her while examining her injured forehead, which was quickly swelling and turning blue, “What’s wrong honey? Are you sick?”
After she opened her eyes it took her a minute to focus and then her expression changed. It was a mixture of pity and anger, although her voice was like a deep sigh as she whispered, “You really don’t know do you?” Man, it sounded like she was accusing me or something! Since she was hurt I let her have her say and boy, she laid it on.
She sat up, pulling herself away from me, turning where she could look me square in the face. The gist of what she said was something along these lines: “In the last 48 hours I haven’t slept more than two hours undisturbed. My feet have 20 or more tiny holes in them because you wouldn’t let me take an extra five minutes to unpack my tennis shoes. My shoulder is sore from trying to carry thirty pounds of crabs for hours (they didn’t weight that much.) My hand is burned from trying to stuff a fighting crab into a kettle of boiling water, which seems very much like torturing the poor thing, AND, all the while you lay in a state of repose. Due to lack of sleep and sun, my eyes feel like they are full of sand. I have had little to eat. I am female, for crying out loud. I just want to sleep without you pawing on me. Besides, I have body parts I didn’t even know existed until now and they are killing me—.so what is wrong with me??? I’m the weaker vessel, remember? It’s in the Bible, chapter one, verse one—.or somewhere.”
Strange creatures, these females. My brother never acted like that when we traveled together holding evangelistic services. “Well, she will get adjusted.” I thought.

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