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Endersblade #fundie mmo-champion.com

Male Rape Victim forced to pay Child Support to Rapist.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-owes-more-than-15000-in-child-support-for-daughter-he-fathered-at-14/


Long story short. 20 year old woman has sex with a 14 year old boy. (Which is in Arizona classed as Statutory Rape). 6 years later, the woman sues for Child Support, and wins, during this time he was unaware that he had a child.

Funny enough, he is willing to pay, and is willing to take part in the kids life. His problem is that they also demand backpay for the past 6 years, which he is having a hard time meeting.

And this is not the first time this happens.


This actually happened to my roommate, although both were of age. They went to court over it, and they basically just blew it off like it couldn't happen. She moved states, had the kid unbeknownst to him, and a year later, filed for child support. He's been paying it ever since. He loves the kid, has zero custodial rights, even though the mom is letting the daughter turn into a fucking watermelon. She's 9 and weighs almost 120 lbs.

On subject but different issue, I cannot put into words how absolutely fucking stupid it is to say that a woman raped a male just because he was underage. Because, you know, you don't know jack shit about sex until you turn 18, and then suddenly poof, you're an expert. In that article, it was extremely obvious they were both consenting to what they were doing. To automatically make it rape just because he was 14? We have some seriously stupid fucking laws.

North American Man/Boy Love Association.

Basically, they say that a relationship between a full grown man and a young boy is perfectly fine, as long as there is no coercion..

Considering many cultures around the world already do this, I see nothing wrong with it. Although in their situation it may not always be consensual, at least here (from what little I've read up on the subject) NAMBLA requires consent on both sides for it to be ok.

Many of you seem to forget that even within the past 100 years, it was OK for someone 14, 15, 16 to be married and have kids, usually with an adult. It's something humans have been doing for thousands of years. Then suddenly, a...specific, will leave unnamed...group decided it's just ewwy gross and against their beliefs to be doing things with young, innocent kids who are completely innocent and don't know anything about sex, because they're innocent, you know? So somehow this got ingrained in our society, and now everyone gets up in arms if, even if 17 and almost 18, someone does something naughty with someone under the age of 18. Because 18 has suddenly become this magic number that turns kids into adults, even though, again, not more than 100 years ago people under the age of 18 were having families and holding jobs, contributing to their society.

itisamuh #homophobia mmo-champion.com

the normal status quo is man plus woman. It has nothing to do with state vs federal (for me anyway.) I simply see no reason for society to go out of its way to support every single oddity people can come up with. Especially since, if we deviate from the obvious norm once, then why not do it again? Why not legalize incest, provided both parties consent? Why not lower the age of consent to post-puberty, since they do it anyway? Etc. None of those things are "natural restraints" and all of them involve "natural attraction." If we revoke our purely man-made laws for one deviation, then all the others start asking for it, and the reasons for denying them become flemsy. Better to just not cross the line in the first place and have a set standard in my opinion. And that principle can apply to basically everything, not just this. It has nothing to do with "hating" gays, or wanting to deny rights, but rather having more concrete, set standards of life. Of course, as we become a more liberal society, my "archaic" standards will continue to get phased out in the name of goofy political correctness and an "everybody wins!" mentality.

But, as someone said earlier, it gets ridiculous having laws completely change from one state to the next. So as much as I would rather keep my conservative state conservative, I understand why the federal government steps in sometimes

Underverse #psycho mmo-champion.com


it might not be harmful for them to lose their childhood, but it is really, really really fucking wrong. a kid should only have to think about playing, making friends, and doing homework. they shouldn't have to think about the things that come with sex, that's just wrong.
and no, danger isn't a good reason to outlaw bestiality. if danger was a good reason to outlaw something, you'd outlaw smoking and alcohol.

Yes, yes you would. And I think smoking should be outlawed, and I think it will be, with time. Alcohol has other benefits - social lubrication, mostly, that have value to society. Bestiality does not have any value beyond baseline.

So I assume you're okay with people having sex with anyone post-puberty, given your idealistic 'playing, friends, homework' trifecta. So you've lowered the bar to ~12. Logically, I used to agree with that. But I've come to understand that sexual interactions are not innately harmful, not matter the age at which they take place. These organs are functional in all regards except reproduction from the moment we're born. I would rather see parents, like bonobos, use pleasure to calm their kids, instead of violence. Only in this fucked up post-agricultural culture do we think that violence is a more acceptable means of disciplining children. If you're so worried about mental effects, maybe you should start there.

So smoking should be illegal, but parents disciplining their kids by fucking them should be legal?

Context matters. If harm is caused, it needs to be justified with a benefit. The benefit to smoking is feeble at best.

I'm not advocating for rape. Rape is simply a destructive act. But my disdain for rape does not translate into a disdain for sex, or other sexual interactions. In the context of this argument, I would say sexual interactions to calm children would be permissible and preferable to spanking or psychological abuse in the form of isolation. That doesn't mean rape, beatings, or violence.

Underverse #psycho mmo-champion.com

I assume you want it banned because of secondary smoking, so justify it in the context of children. Do you think the overall negative impact of having a smoker for a parent is greater than the negative impact of having a parent who had sex with you since childhood?

Yes. If that parent is nurturing and fosters positive traits, I see no reason for harm to be part of this calculation. Sexual interactions (not necessarily penetrative sex - that's quite rare in pre-pubertal individuals who are victims of sexual abuse, more common in ephebes) can serve as a powerful mechanism of pair bonding that can act to strengthen familial ties and improve trust between individuals - as long as you don't have a culture that condemns you as a victim with no agency, and your parents as rapists who are going to jail.

Hyve #sexist mmo-champion.com

It was a mutually exclusive deal. The women must cover herself in front of men, to stop any temptation, and at home, she is free to dress as she wishes. These days though, that has been taken totally out of context, and had religious views stamped all over it.

Sadly, this isn't restricted purely just to Middle-Eastern Societies, but it is more prevalent due to the media coverage. Over here, we allow women to dress as they please, and rape cases are higher here, then they are in the Middle East. Now, I'm not saying they've got a good system, but merely pointing out, they had an old system (and I am talking, hundreds, if not thousands of years by the way) that ensured that both Men & Women were safe and could lead happy lives.

Atsawin26 #homophobia mmo-champion.com

The yelling and smacking is where I think the family is in the wrong here.

They have absolutely every right to not approve or support him if they so choose and he is 18 or older. I'd probably distance myself from my son if he was gay, and if he was 18 or older, he'd need to move out and get his own place. I wouldn't yell or become violent. He has the right to do what he wants with his life after he's 18. And I also have the right to distance myself from him like I would anyone else I don't want to associate with.

But the screaming, and more importantly, the smacking, is totally uncalled for. Histrionics never help anything.

Underverse #fundie mmo-champion.com

So, would you bang your 7yo daugher, if she agreed with it? And there were no laws against it?

Probably not, because of genetic relation. But I would allow someone else to, if I grew up with them, knew that they were benevolent, understood their persona, experiences, and personality.

Omgodzilla #psycho mmo-champion.com

What if we started cannibalizing terrorists?
ISIS has done some disgusting things. I think its time, we return the favour. Back in World War 2, some Finnish soldiers
would skin and even cannibalize dead Russian soldiers. Why don't we do the same with ISIS? Why let their meat go to waste? Who cares if its cannibalism? Its still meat, it probably tastes good like any other meat. It would give us an extra source of protein and it would also strike a huge blow to the morale of ISIS fighters if they knew that their dead bodies would be cannibalized like that. They would shit their pants. I think its worth considering. I mean, what's wrong with cannibalism exactly? If the people you're cannibalizing are evil terrorists, then don't they deserve it?

itisamuh #psycho #racist mmo-champion.com

Well I don't see why it's illegal, or even taboo for that matter. I'd call a brother and sister hooking up less weird than old and young people getting together, or even interracial relationships, and a hell of a lot less weird than homosexuality. Since all of those things aren't really all that frowned upon by our society anymore, there's no legitimate reason for this to be either. I may not like it, but standards are thrown out the window these days. This might as well be okay too, as long as they're both adults or, if not, similar in age. It should be discouraged, yes, but not illegal.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

Question for the other guys out there:

How many of you had an experience in college where a girl was initially pretty unresponsive or even kind of weakly defensive but suddenly really got into it after you made a few moves? I certainly did, and it wasn't a situation where she was blackout drunk. She just ended up in my bed on some pretext (I think her roommate was hooking up with someone, but she had other options besides climbing into a twin bed with a single guy so it seemed pretty clear what her intent was). Her actions after getting in bed left me pretty confused, she was totally unresponsive to kissing and groping but didn't stop me. However, when I did the right thing she was suddenly all over me. I kind of figured out the boundaries through trial and error. On subsequent nights, I kept pushing and they gradually expanded too (lol).

I wasn't some sort of sexual predator, I was just a shy kid. I read the (nonverbal) signals correctly and it worked out, we dated for a few months after that.

While you might think this isn't related to the case, I think it is. The cultural (and maybe biological) necessity for the male to be aggressive and the female to put the brakes on things tends to really effect how these things go. And us males are stupid, we don't read the signs nearly as well as women hope we do. However we do share stories, and a lot of guys encourage their friends to be aggressive too, to make moves. That's when things can go wrong. It's messed up but it's also the reality.

Once you get older though, it all becomes a lot more natural and easier. You understand how to read signals and you learn what boundaries not to cross. Girls are also better at communicating those boundaries once they've had a few experiences themselves.

That's why, when I hear something like this, I think: here's a guy who's gotten the wrong message, but he's young and hasn't figured this whole dating/sex thing out yet. Make sure he knows that what he did is very wrong, punish him, but nothing that will impact his life long term. He deserves the chance to prove whether he's learned from his mistake.

Silent one #fundie mmo-champion.com

Honestly, I think by the time guys are 15-16 they are about as mature as they will be until at least 23-ish, maybe even 26-ish, Although I'm still a 23 year old virgin, and might have a bit of a shallow view of these things, but I really don't see the problem, as long as the teen isn't under 16 (which is the average age of consent in the world), and it was "Consensual." It was these stupid rules and fear of going to jail that kept me from having fun in high school when I was still able to get a girls attention, These days I'm a hopeless blob of repulsive flesh, but maybe if I had a "Teacher" to show me the ways of the world, I wouldn't be on my way into an early grave alone and hopeless.

Undervers #sexist mmo-champion.com

[On a man fingering unconscious girls]


Yeah, he should probably go to jail for a few months or be fined heavily. But his actions are not critically destructive, and it would be injustice for his life to be ruined. He didn't kill anyone. He poked a couple of vaginas. The fact that he was charged with rape is already a stretch, as much as I am personally disgusted by his archetype.

Shinra1 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Why are SJWs like yourself the only people defending pedophilia?

You do know that trying to elicit sex from a minor, of any kind, is a crime right? Nothing you say or do will change that fact. But please keep talking. We love to know who our resident pedophile defenders are.

Who said I was an SJW? If I was an SJW I'd be wishing certain death on him like Floopa, without even knowing the facts!

I'm not on Kevin's side. I'm on the side of the victim which is Rapp but that doesn't mean I condemn Kevin to death or wish him harm. As I mentioned on the previous pages of this thread: Kevin is a tortured soul whose father abused him so I can find it in my heart to forgive him for allegedly touching a 14 year old (a grown kid basically who knows right from wrong and had a job) inappropriately 30 years ago.

Humans are flawed. There's no one who is perfect.

Itisamuh #sexist mmo-champion.com


I often see grown men eyeing up girls school girls. Is this wrong?
So I moved to a new area a while ago and basically it's located nearby a secondary school (high school) so I bump into a lot of children in school uniforms on the morning commute where I can't help but notice adult men checking girls out. There is something wrong with this imo, like the girls where I live wear knee-length skirt and usually don't wear any tights with it so men tend to get an eyeful on the bus/train and 8 times out of 10 you can expect an adult male trying to eye the bottom of a teenage school girl.I think it's disgusting.


So you think people are not supposed to look at attractive members of the opposite sex when they are at their most prime age? Good luck avoiding that. And it is not just adult men and teenage girls. Middle aged women will scream and whistle and throw their panties at good looking teenage male stars.

Sex to me is a lot more than just biology. Just because someone is capable of breeding doesn't mean they're mentally prepared for it. Some may "grow" up faster than others but under 18 is still a child in my eyes. Hell, even 18-19 is still a child in my eyes. Personally I'd make the aoc 21 but the law disagrees. Either way I think its wrong and predatory for older people to go after people at such a young age.

I have the opposite view, that the age of consent should be much lower because people much younger than that are going to be having sex. Why make it illegal for no good reason when they are going to do it anyway? When you try to judge whether someone was mentally ready for it, whether they were seduced or used and so on, you are throwing way too many subjective factors in for it to be decided by an arbitrary cutoff.

vizzle #fundie mmo-champion.com

I still don't like this To Catch A Predator bullshit. Some of them are out there looking, yes, but many of them are lured into it.


Thats the point. The real sick person there is the guy who is aggressivly pushing someone to do the deed, breaking down their will, then taking some moral ground for it.
Lol I mean when is the person who provokes someone into a fight ever truly innocent? Why is this any different?

Yep. The better way to stop girls from hooking up with men is for parents to wake up. That "To Catch A Predator" show is disgusting. So many of the victims on that show are average men just trolling around the internet, and a nice hot pie of sexy bait was put down right under their nose, offering themselves up willingly. If there wasn't any bait in the first place doing that, many of those men would have never even considered it. Ruin people's lives just for a tv show. You think that guy will keep his friends, his job, his family when they see that episode? It's horrible.


most states require a 4 year age gap for statutory rape
it's pretty fucked up how many of you in this thread are pro-pedophilia. you disgust me
vizzle: there is no way you feel bad for pedophiles who hook up with people who pretend to be 14 year old girls and you're not one yourself. normal people do not sympathize with grown men who look to fuck 14 year old girls

Nobody here is pro-pedophilia. We're saying that the way they lure these men is horrible.

Give a man a bomb, an empty room, and the person he hates the most in the world, and make him believe that nobody will ever know what happens, and you're sure to see an explosion. Would that man kill under normal circumstances though? Not always.


Do you take issue with police leaving bait cars out to catch thieves? I'm sure most wouldn't consider stealing a car if one wasn't left sitting right out in front of them, right? It doesn't matter whether there's a lure or not; any decent human being wouldn't even entertain the thought of banging a kid.

Considering men have been fucking young girls for all of written history except for the last hundred years or so because people suddenly decided it's taboo, and in some places around the world the legal consent is 14, I really don't understand this giant "OH MY GOD YOU'RE A PEDOPHILE" epidemic plaguing everyone. I'm not a pedophile, I'm not pro-pedophile, I'm anti-rape (of course) and I don't like it when girls are abused, but I think it's silly that all of a sudden we have to change the way humans think despite the fact that men have been doing it for centuries and still do, legally, in parts of the world.


Men have been killing people since the dawn of time. We've also raped women because they were below us. We also kept slaves. Do I need to seriously compile an entire thesis of things we've done up until the last century that we shouldn't have been doing in the first place?

Yes, but killing and raping have always been "bad". Men and girls getting married and raising families together was always normal.


if you think it's ok for a grown man to fuck a 14 year old kid, then you are a pedophile. just because they married off 14 year old kids and traded them for sheep in the dark ages when everyone died at 28 doesn't mean it's ok

You honestly should be infracted for spouting "pedophile" at everyone who has a different opinion from you. If a 14 year old girl wants to do it with a man, I see no reason why she shouldn't. It's the responsibility of the parents to make sure she is educated and knows about it, to make sure she won't do something stupid. Biologically, there is nothing wrong with a girl having sex at that age.


[Bali] 14 year old teen arrested on Drug charges
Australian authorities have confirmed that a 14-year-old boy from NSW has been arrested in Indonesia after allegedly being caught with drugs while on holiday in Bali.The boy was arrested on Tuesday, allegedly in possession of a small amount of marijuana.
He could face a lengthy jail term if convicted of possession charges, which carry a maximum penalty of 12 years in jail.

Can't really feel sorry for him, he knew the consequences when he did it.


HHe was 14, he probably didn't. 12 years? thats irrational. I don't do weed, but I dont even think it should be illegal, while alcohol isn't.

How would you not know that getting caught with drugs is illegal when you're 14? Unless you're completely unaware of the outside world (which I'm going to assume he isn't) a 14 year old, even if he doesn't know the ins and outs of the law completely, would definitely know that drugs = illegal.

Nerevar #fundie mmo-champion.com

A Norwegian woman has been sentenced to imprisonment for one year and four months in Dubai after she reported a rape.

- The woman reported a rape to the police in Dubai, but was not thought of this. We have been told that she herself was instead sentenced to one year and four months. The judicial system here has obviously taken the information she has given them and meant that she is guilty of anything, says Gisle Meling, a priest in the Seamen's Church in Dubai.


Meh. You live by the laws of the land you inhabit. So if anything, she is the only to blame. Should have known better.

Templar 331 #sexist mmo-champion.com

If you pass out - say, you are sunbathing on the beach and fall asleep - and I see you are unconscious, and rape you - you accept that it was irresponsible of you to fall asleep?

Blacking out drunk isn't the same as sleeping on the beach, unless you are a REAL deep sleeper. In which case I don't think you should be sleeping on the beach. :/

Do your coworkers have the right to run a train on your unconscious body?

I work with several guys that would do that when I'm conscious. >.> To be fair it would be, I hope, an accident.

Or does it only apply to alcohol?

We have a WINNER!!!

You knowingly put a substance into your body that has a side effect of making you unresponsive for long periods of time while in a place surrounded by people you don't know who are also imbibing the same substance.

If so, have you ever been very drunk? Where you would have been unable to resist, slurred your speech in your refusal so that it was unclear, or have you ever passed out while drunk?

Nope. You know why? BECAUSE I DON'T FUCKING WANT TO BE RAPED!!!! (even though I'm a guy it can still happen)

I get drowsy after half an ale, so I know it wouldn't take much for me to be out for a while.

Or it seems you're saying drinking alcohol is tantamount to 'consenting' to rape.

What we, or at least I, are saying is that when you put yourself in a situation where you are vulnerable you share part of the responsibility of what happened. It's not your fault that you get raped. No one should be raped, but if it does happen and you helped facilitate it then you should grow up an learn that your habits need to change. Drink with friends, drink at home. Don't got to frat parities or bars and get shit faced by yourself.

Xaelai #fundie mmo-champion.com

The moment you start victim blaming, is the moment you make it much easier for rapists to actually get away with it. You can recognize that it's dumb to act in a manner that would entice people, but in the end a no means no. I also clearly said 'act', because I don't believe that dress is a valid way of enticing people. Just because a girl is wearing a tiny dress doesn't mean she is trying to entice men.

Praytell why ELSE she'd be wearing skimpy clothing?

I can't think of a single practical use for wearing skimpy clothing other than trying to look sexually pleasing to men. Unless she's Bi or lesbian or something and trying to look nice to other girls, but still. Is there really a need to be walking around in public dressed like that?

Oxymoronic #sexist mmo-champion.com

quit trying to equate this to a forced rape of the vagina with a dick or other foreign object. this is pathetic play and to call it rape, what a fucking slap in the face to people that have really been thru rape. you dont want you little pussy played with, dont fall asleep drunk. as much their fault as his. there i said it, since nobody else has the balls.

oh and if this was my daughter i would be thankful she wasnt raped and this probably taught her a valuable lesson in life. win win situation if you know how to live life correctly and learn from your mistakes.

Templar 331 #fundie mmo-champion.com


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/12/15/dear-daddy-rape-culture_n_8812780.html

A Norwegian PSA is calling on dads around the world to take a closer look at their actions and how they may add to rape culture.

#DearDaddy, put out by CARE Norway, an organization that advocates for women’s and girls’ rights,

Gee, didn't see that coming.

“By the time I’m 14, the boys in my class will have called me a whore,” she tells her dad. “It’s just for fun of course, something boys do, so you won’t worry, and I understand that.”

Oh no! Those hurtful words!!

She goes on to share how another boy will try to stick his hand down her pants while she’s drunk at 16.

Then don't get drunk underage or to the point of passing out in a place by yourself.

Later on, she tells him she will be raped by a family friend at 21.

The hell kind of friends do you and your family have?

Afterwards, she finds herself in an abusive relationship as an adult.

Which is totally not her fault for choosing to be with an abusive fuck. She's totally innocent from all responsibility. >.>

Here in Canada, several provinces have put out campaigns advocating against sexual violence and harassment. While the campaign #WhoWillYouHelp? was geared toward speaking up when you witness something,

Why the hell should anyone "speak up" when you screw yourself and fail to take responsibility for your actions?

This video isn’t meant to shame men. Her ask is simply that her father become aware of his own actions and the role he can inadvertently play in adding to rape culture by laughing off misogynist things as jokes and failing to call out the men in his life.

"I'm not saying it's your fault, it just is your fault."

“One thing leads to another,” she explains. “Don’t let my brothers call girls whores, because they’re not.”

"You hurt my feelings!! I've been RAPED

Wowaccounttom #fundie mmo-champion.com

It comes down to culture and such. Due to certain things, that shall remain unnamed, Asian culture is exposed to relationships with young people, both the adult and young are becoming more used to this and thus see nothing wrong with it.

I don't think she is cute, good looking or anything.. not hideous either, but certainly she doesn't tickle my fancy.

If I could, I would date someone under aged but she would have to be one extremely cute loli or some hot teenage girl, again, what a person is exposed to determines acceptance of things, some of us, are just more ahead than others. Think many years ago how gays, blacks, and interracial dating were accepted compared to now, quite sure back then people thought it was never going to get to the disgusting level that is at now.

zantos,buck008 #fundie mmo-champion.com

so are you claiming it is a right for an admitted pedophile to be allowed to work around children if he so chooses to?

zantos: Yes. They are Not a rapist. They have committed no crimes. In some cases, when someone is afraid of something, exposure is actually the best cure.


buck008 :I'm telling you that you would never know if they didn't tell you anyway. This is a person that has not committed a crime. Do you really want to be in the business of punishing people that aren't actually guilty of anything? I thought we "SJW's" were supposed to be the facist thought police.

Mandrace #fundie mmo-champion.com

[ What would you do if your son or daughter comes out to you?]


Thankfully I'm not having children so I won't be in that situation, EVER.

But in case it does happen, though it is very very very unlikely I would have to say that first I'm not against Gay's, but I do not want under any circumstance anything to do with them either. I honestly think it's weird and unnatural. That's just my primitive, honest opinion. That said, if my kid came up to me and said that I wouldn't be able to support the kid anymore but, on some level it's still my kid so I would still love them. I just wouldn't support them, but if they joined any of that gay propaganda shit to enforce it down our throats I wouldn't hesitate to beat his or her ass until it is black and blue.

Ripslyme #fundie mmo-champion.com

[Adult datea a 12 year old]

Welcome to the WORLD little US Boi. Whats not ok for you can be ok for somebody else. Hes waiting and she probably hit Puberty already so it doesnt even make him a Pedophile like what you People call it. Nobody realy says anything when a 70year old marrys a 18year old but when its under 14 they all go "Oh my god this is so disgusting" bla bla .. If you can bear children you are ready thats the way Nature works

Puupi #fundie mmo-champion.com

[ on a 14 year old child being forced to marry an 35 year old adult]

To put things in perspective - arranged marriages are worldwide the standard compared to the "free marriage" we nowadays have in western countries.
At least the Chinese, Japanese, Indians, whole Africa have arranged marriages. That's more than half of the world population already.

Even in Finland you don't need to look far back in time when arranged marriages were the standard. That was the thing not longer than about 100 years ago. Marriages were arranged, we still have a remnant of that tradition where the bride's father pays for the costs of weddings.

And when we look at the age of the brides - in Finland (evangelic lutheran church) kids get Confirmation (I hope you know the meaning) at the age of 14 to 15. When you are "Confirmed" you are legally ready for being wedded. 100 years ago it was a standard that marriages were arranged and men married 14-16 year old girls.

That's completely normal.

PS. I vouch for arranged marriages, those marriages statistically work a lot better than these modern "free marriages". A lot less divorcing and happier couples. Your family has a lot better judgment in choosing a partner for you than what you have in 3 promille drunk state at some random bar at 4am in Saturday night. That's where most of relationships start, and it's not a good start for a relationship.

Underverse #fundie mmo-champion.com

@paperplates

I think my girlfriend was abused as a child.


So last night I was talking to my girlfriend and she was talking about her ex boyfriends. She had mentioned that she only had two before me, one was five years older and one was three. She then mentioned her she had her first boyfriend at thirteen and I made a joke saying I hope it wasn't the guy who was five years older than you then. Which she replied yes..... So she was 13 and he was 18. I lost it.
.....
To me that is fucked up. No right minded 18 year old should be in a relationship with a 13 year old. To put in perspective, that is a college student with 7th/8th grader.

...

Now the hard part. My girlfriend is now defending this guy. She says he is normal, a nice guy, they were more "friends", there is no way he would have been with another girl like that and that they still keep contact with each other. To me that sounds like the typical manipulative behavior of someone who is a sex offender. To me if feels like she is in denial over the whole thing, while displaying other traits that abuse survivors show such as having zero trust in relationships (she is unbelievably jealous of other girls and constantly thinks I am cheating on her), her self-confidence is non-existent (she is stunningly beautiful but thinks she is ugly and fat at a size 4), she has really bad anxiety and cannot face any sort of confrontation without going silent or trying to redirect the conversation.

@maruh

well, the first thing which comes to my mind is: I had a girlfriend who was 14 when I was 18. I also had no sex with her..but kissing and stuff was on, like the things she / you described. I was just late in my development, nothing of pedophilia there. Later on, with 15, my gf was pregnant...luckily the father wasnt me (since we hadnt had sex anyway) so that was that...^^


@"The flowering Sunset"

People like you, actually do the most harm in cases like this, by badgering and bullying someone into believing they were abused.

Every study has shown that the damage is caused not by the contact, but by the ensuing chorus of people demanding that the child believe they were abused and to act like they were abused for the amusement of the child's supposed rescuers.

In closing, if you are cared about her, you would end the relationship as you don't have the ability to understand the situation and are too brainwashed by society to accept the fact that 13 year old girls find older men attractive.

We create the problem. here is no reason or evidence to suggest that sexual contact - something inherently beneficial that we've evolved with for millions of years - is inherently bad because it occurs between two people of significantly different ages. Hell, bonobo mothers rub clits with their toddlers - you don't see them being scarred for life, utterly mentally destroyed. It's the echo chamber that forces victimization onto these people that really does the damage, making them into pariahs and removing their agency.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

The rapist is the only one causing the rape. Not both perp and victim.

I just don't think it's as black and white as that in many cases. The girl who goes out to a party where many people are hooking up, gets stinking drunk, too stupified to say no, and hooks up with a guy who's also drunk is vastly different from the evil predator who preys on women. I saw situations like this happen between friends of mine - I can remember one particular case where a girl was coming off a breakup and got near blackout drunk, then was basically dragged to bed by a friend of hers and she was pretty pissed afterwards. He clearly had feelings for her, went into the night trying to make his move now that she was single, they both got really drunk, and it ended unfortunately, but that's a volatile mix of circumstances where many people aren't at their best (particularly at age 20). Was that sexual assault/rape? By the letter of the law, probably - she was too drunk to consent. Did he deserve to spend the next 10 years or whatever in jail? Hell no. End of the day it was an asshole thing to do, but they both moved on from it and recognized it for the non-world-ending offense that it was.


The number of people who try to romanticize rape out of what it usually is is disturbing.

So do you think my friend should have gone to jail for a few years? I don't think "romanticize" is the right word here either... I don't see anything romantic about what happened there, it was messy and unfortunate and disappointing, left both sides feeling bad.

And just to be clear, my personal view on rape and enforcement is that it's basically impossible to get the laws right. Life isn't always black and white. The example I provided above illustrates a case where I believe the current standards wouldn't work well.

Lefrog #fundie mmo-champion.com


It is. But you can't treat people in a way that is criminal, regardless of how they act. Therein lies the the fault with victim blaming. I know you said devil's advocate but this ought to be intuitively obvious? You can perhaps rightfully call a child a slut (but you won't be a nice person for doing so), but that's about as far as you can go. You can't rape her and then justify it as "well she acted like a slut so I treated her like one".
It's illegal to rape women for being promiscuous.

There in lies the problem with modern society. Because girls who act and dress promiscuously, sometimes also engage in sexual activity with older men. It's also illegal to have consensual sex, and the responsibility is thrown entirely on the adult. Controlling sexual urges during a consensual encounter is a lot harder than people think. It's not only in our genes, but also embedded in our society. There is a reason why so many people cheat when they are in a relationship. But there is a fundamental difference between wanting that ultimate please with someone and willing to break the law/relationship over it and going as far as knowingly hurting them for it.

Sometimes the adult may not know the true age, sometimes the adult will give in to temptation. But the thought process going through a man's brain is entirely different from a "I'm going to rape her" situation. Yet the punishment and branding stays the same, especially in cases involving minors.

200 years ago it wasn't uncommon to get with someone younger than 18. In fact, nature itself makes girls ready in the 10-13 age. Now I do agree, that in this day in age, getting pregnant or even engaging in sexual activity before 17-18 can be damaging, because so much of our future rides on our ability to focus on learning during our teen years and our ability to grow up with a healthy mental state. But we are fighting against our nature in doing this, and the fact that society has deemed it ok to punish those who break this rule but at the same time deemed it ok to leave all the temptation in there is wrong. It's similar to bringing alcohol to an AA meeting. In either case you have to be very strong willed to go against your natural instincts when being tempted, and some people just aren't.


No, girls that young giving birth are risking a whole host of medical issues. Nature makes girls capable by 13, it does not make them ready.

I'd have to research this more to find any kind of correlation between a healthy 14 y/o and a healthy 18 y/o as far as risks to giving birth. Again though you are right here and what I meant by ready was capable. But it would be wrong to state that all girls under 18 are unfit to become parents, or are at larger risk than if they were 18+. Those girls whose bodies develop and mature faster are also those who seem to favor promiscuous clothing as well, and as also more like to want to consensually engage in sexual activity. Therefore it also seems plausible that men's natural attraction to females happen when they think that female is ready to give birth regardless of age.

Honestly, I don't really see this happen all that often. Most cases of pedophiles (in the news at least) seem to be of either people who abused positions of trust (might as well be forcible rape) or predators who groomed little girls for sex (pretty much is forcible rape). But I acknowledge that could well just be my perspective. My position though, is that there's no reason why you can't wait a couple of years with an underage partner. Err on the side of caution when it comes to people who are potentially not ready.

I agree here, but I do occasionally read about a case of statutory rape that just doesn't seem to make sense. There is also a huge difference in being attracted to someone underaged that looks, talks, acts, dresses like an adult and an attraction to the looks, talks, and acts of someone who is clearly still a kid.

Edit: this is why I think society is partly to blame. We should keep children as children, so that people are less likely to be attracted to them even if they somewhat look old enough. Nothing more offputting to me than a girl who acts like a child with her mannerisms, despite how old she is.

Well the law does have to make up some number, but it's sad to see people automatically branded as pedophiles and rapist (not the legal definition, but that of purely forceful sex) when the parties involved can be one of the numerous cases when the sexual act in question is not damaging to either party. Especially when both parties are wired perfectly normal and subject to society's teens' provocative displays and their own sexual impulses.

I take issue with trying to blame it on provocative displays. Really, human adults in general aren't such hopeless creatures who can't control their base desires.

Don't agree with this at all. Just look at how many people commit crimes of passion, and how many people are addicted to drugs, alcohol, or smoking. Look at how many people eat without control, or spend way too much time on entertainment to their own detriment. Human adults in general have a very hard time struggling with control, specially when having that control isn't specifically rewarded in any way.

I don't think any of the other little vices that you mentioned compares to sexually assaulting a minor.

Oh they don't! I was referring to being able to say no to sex with a minor who looks,acts, talks, and dresses like an adult who is the one wanting to initiate the sexual act in the first place.
Sexual activity in men in my opinion is almost equivalent to a drug. It is why the porn industry is so damn huge. Sex is not one of those things men can just shrug off and be 100% in control about, because on some level sex is a primal instinct embedded in all of us. Look at how hard it is to become a celibate priest or monk, and they already remove themselves from situations where they can give in.

medium9 #fundie mmo-champion.com

[on the kevin spacey sexual harassment allegations]

I'm with Shinra1 here. 26 is still fairly young, and it's entirely within the realm of possibilities that one hasn't fully matured sexually (well, body yes, but mentally is another thing) especially as a gay during that time, especially in Hollywood. I see this more like some teen at a party getting shitfaced and try to get it on with that hot freshman chick. People need to figure themselves out. It's no excuse for meddling with a minor, but as we (almost) all know: Drunk minds can REALLY fuck up one's moral compass.
That doesn't make it right, and if the allegations turn out to have substance, he deserves the scrutiny in the very least. But I personally still consider this to be in the realm of normal human try-out thyself. 14 isn't that young either, most people would have had some sexual experience by then, and at least boys will have had substancial solo play by that point to know enough about what's going on, roughly. Heck, at 14 I was actively seeking out a good lay.

I also get the vibe that no real abuse happened, and that a "no" was eventually honored without any actual rapey actions. All these things lead me to suspect that no actual harm was done, and that he merely tries to jump onto the Weinstein-wagon, possibly to gain a glimpse of spotlight. I almost suspect that he didn't even think much about the "incident" all these 30 years.
Well, yet another reason to give STD a pass. (I love that they still went with the name, knowing full well that ST has a tradition of refering to installments with 3-letter acronyms and STD was guaranteed to happen.)

Not too long ago the qhole sexuality thing was a LOT more relaxed man. I really don't know what happened. It's as if people suddenly forgot that we really are animals, and that sexuality is the strongest aspect of it by far. People have made all sorts of advancements for millenia to all sorts of other people. And as long as it didn't come to downright rape, abuse and violence (and yes, a forced kiss is abuse already - but not if the other one leans in, no matter how drunk), we filed it under "experience". I'm not saying that anything is game, but people currently are WAYYYY too sensitive about it. Not to say we should just leave it as is, but we're yet again overshooting the goals by miles. I'm getting tired of this.

Instant happy, just add pedophilia!

Award for discovering new horizons of creepy-crazy

underverse #fundie mmo-champion.com

That being said, pedophilia is still something that should be legalized. Bonobo mothers use it to calm their children when they're getting out of hand (unlike we humans, who use violence). Human morphology suggests a greater extent of this behavior due to our lowered sexual dimorphism and neotenous traits. If it's approached from a parenting practice and contrasted against the violent tactics we use now, I think it could gain acceptance, and rightly so. People have failed to divorce destructive pedophilia from benevolent pedophilia for too long. It's like conflating sex and rape. The logic is there, people just need to take a moment to consider it.

I am arguing that sexual interactions between adults and children should be acceptable under the premise that they are not inherently harmful interactions and indeed are likely to be less destructive than, for example, using violence to control children when they get out of hand.


Let me ask you. What is your end goal?

The goal is to shift people away from the chimpanzee-like violence-as-a-means-to-everything mindset that we've cultured over the last 15,000 years+, and towards the bonobo-like let's-just-love mindset. A lot of our problems, as a society, come from weak social support networks. Increasing pair bonding via sex will strengthen those networks, and in turn we will see a decline in violence and violent crime, bigotry, hatred, and a vast landscape of actually destructive behaviors.

LemonPartyFan #fundie mmo-champion.com

Weird for real though. Every time we have a thread about executing murderers for their crimes, I see posts reaffirming us that jail and prison should be about rehabilitation. We also see that idea expressed in prison reform threads, or the thread about the US federal government refusing to use private prisons anymore. And yet we have this case with few details. And the details we do have aren't even that condemning of the guy. He was in bed with some girls that pass out and he fingered them. While wrong, its just not on the same level as the Brock case, or most of the other cases of someone preying on passed out people. Or violently attacking them and breaking into their homes. Or even drugging them or using weapons.

And yet, here we have people demanding he go to prison for 20 years, demanding he be castrated, demanding this and that. While I think 2 years probation is very light, its hypocritical of the aforementioned idea that we should be rehabilitating, instead of punishing people. Its also telling that the victims don;t think he should go to jail.

I'd also like to clarify, its sort of dishonest to compare this case directly to other recent ones. The person "slipping" into a vagina is ridiculous, and a poor, dishonest comparison. While you can say by law, he raped them, or that, by law that one poster that continued having sex with his wife right after she passed technically raped his wife.... I just don't think the alleged victims would really agree with you.

Also, people keep asking "what if a guy fingered your butt while you were asleep?" .. well, if I were a homosexual man, interested in said other man, and we were flirting all night and I happened to pass out as things were getting good.. and butt fingering was something I would normally be into... I just wouldn't care that much. In reality I have passed out drunk (for minutes at a time) and my girlfriend didn't stop, and just woke up me up by shaking me. To you people this might be rape and according to you, she might belong in prison... but I just don't see it that way.

Itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

A new law in Iran that allows men to marry their adopted daughters at the age of 13 has caused major concern that the country's new president is not as progressive as originally thought.

As far as I'm concerned, if you've been through puberty, you're ready for sex. Let's face it, people at that age are going to do it whether they're supposed to or not. The only reason it's illegal is because we decided to make it so, not because there's any legitimate sense behind it. People change physically and mentally through their entire lives, there's no one age where someone is suddenly mature enough to not be taken advantage of. Adults get taken advantage of and played all the time, that doesn't mean they're getting raped.


Cheerleader, Molly Shattuck, Rapes 15-year-old boy, has to spend weekends in jail.

Another fine example of why statutory rape laws are largely bogus, and age of consent in general is a flawed system. In most of these cases the teenager knows exactly what is going on, and loves every second of it either way. And before anyone suggests it since they always do, I would feel the same if the genders were reversed. An adult man hooking up with a teenage girl, an adult woman hooking up with a teenage boy. It makes no difference to me either way, because it should not be a crime at all in my opinion. People that age are going to be having sex anyway, so there is no point punishing their partners over something harmless.


If it were up to me, the first time someone committed a crime, it would be (depending on the crime) however much time in jail or prison, and a fine. If that person later commits the same crime (so any repeat offender of anything) then they would be executed. If the penalty for crime was greater, people would be less likely to do it. The only problem I really see with my idea is with rape. Too often these days is that getting falsely accused, and if the people had sex, there is no way to really prove whether it was or was not forced. As an anti feminist, I would hate a system where if a guy gets unlucky and dates two bitches who accuse him of rape after they break up, he gets executed.

IGEORGETOWN, Texas – A 19-year-old Texas man who could face years in prison for making brownies laced with marijuana and hash oil said Wednesday he remains scared despite new evidence that his attorney believes should reduce the charges.

How amusing that this site is so pro drug. I hope he gets locked up for a very long time (not life) and learns not to be so stupid in the future.

State seizes 11-year-old & arrests mother after he defends medical marijuana
On March 24, cannabis oil activist Shona Banda‘s life was flipped upside-down after her son was taken from her by the State of Kansas. The ordeal started when police and counselors at her 11-year-old son’s school conducted a drug education class. Her son, who had previously lived in Colorado for a period of time, disagreed with some of the anti-pot points that were being made by school officials. “My son says different things like my ‘Mom calls it cannabis and not marijuana.’ He let them know how educated he was on the facts,” said Banda in an exclusive interview... Banda successfully treated her own Crohn’s disease with cannabis oil.

Seems perfectly fair to me, seeing as she proved herself to be an unfit parent. Legal or not, there is no excuse for drugs, much less around a child.

Templar 331 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Spring Valley school officer caught on video slamming South Carolina student to ground during arrest; officer pulled from school
A South Carolina sheriff's deputy has been pulled from the school where he worked as a resource officer after video showed him slamming a student to the ground while classmates watched in horror.
Deputy Ben Fields was caught on camera at Spring Valley High School in Columbia ordering a student out of her seat. The imposing officer, who is a powerlifter in his free time, stands over her desk and tells the student, "either you're coming with me or I'll make you." Without giving her time to get up, he grabs her and flips her over, slamming her, and her desk, onto the ground.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sc-high-school-officer-beats-student-arrest-article-1.2412147

Welcome to the school of hard knocks, where if you don't follow the rules you'll get face-planted.

She wasn't staying it her seat to learn, she was staying in it to be spiteful. This holds up the class from learning and for that I have zero sympathy for her. Was it too much force? No. Better to be quick like this instead of slowly which would give her time to grab hold of objects that make it harder for the officer.

Daish #fundie mmo-champion.com

Baltimore officer aquitted on all charges in Freedy grays death
A Baltimore judge acquitted Officer Caesar Goodson on all counts Thursday in the death of Freddie Gray, who death in police custody last year sparked days of riots throughout the city.

Goodson, who drove the van that transported Gray after his arrest, faced the most serious charges of the six officers involved in his death last April. He was found not guilty on all seven counts, including second-degree depraved-heart murder, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and involuntary manslaughter. The depraved-heart murder charge carried a possible 30-year sentence.
...

this is good news

criminals should not enjoy the same rights as a law abiding citizens they make a choice to give up their rights when they commit crimes


Freddie Gray was arrested, but never tried or convicted, for carrying an illegal switchblade. In Baltimore, that is a crime punishable by a fine of up to $500, or up to 1 year imprisonment... in other words, a misdemeanor.
So to be very clear about what you acutally said here, you believe that the police should be able to kill people who they've arrested for misdemanor or felony offenses, regardless of evidence or conviction... and furthermore, that once you've been arrested, you are now considered a criminal, regardless of what anything as trivial as evidence or a court might have to say on the matter.

Darkwarrior seems to be another SJW who denies the existence of reality/facts

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

endersblade #fundie mmo-champion.com

Also, for the ignorant, being a pedo is no more an illness to be cured than being gay. Sexual preference is just what you're attracted to. My friend has the most ogrish looking wife I have ever seen, but he finds her irresistible. Does that mean that one of us has an illness? No, it means we have different preferences in what we find attractive. Some people find the same sex attractive. Some people find animals attractive. For some, the underaged. The only reason people view such a thing as bad is because people say it is. Just like being gay used to be bad. Just because YOU don't accept it doesn't mean it should be outright banned. The pure ignorance of the greater masses is what leads to things like this.

So look at it from the pedo point of view: I'm sure many of us have sexual vices. What would happen if you didn't have access to some sort of release? In this case, an adult wants to have sex with a minor. Well, looking at kiddy porn is illegal, so that's (mostly) out. Obviously having sex with a legit child is also illegal. Sex dolls? Sex robots? At least before this ban passes/passed, they were legal. A legal release for your vice. If I was into kiddos and had a doll that simulated, at least to some extent, sex with a kiddo, I'd imagine I would be satisfied enough. Granted, my hand simulates quite a bit as it is, so whatever.

Now, that doesn't mean that their urges to fondle kiddos is going to ultimately LEAD to them doing so - but the frustration of not satisfying that urge could lead to other issues. Being sexually frustrated doesn't just mean your wife isn't putting out anymore. Just look at Prohibition...people will find a way, and that way may not always be better than what was in place beforehand


A gay person does not rationalize their desire to be with other people fo the same sex by projecting their desires upon them unless they actually are mentally ill. Just because I like guys does not mean I rationalize my desire by kidnapping random guys and saying that in truth they really love me. Pedophiles routinely rationalize their desire to be with someone who cannot consent and will often show visible signs of pain during intercourse and will romanticize those relationships and even brain wash children. They also often trade the kids around.
There is no equivalence here.

You are reading way, way too into what I said. Sigh. Why aren't you people intelligent enough that I don't have to spell this shit out? Sheesh.

Do I think people wanting to fuck children is good? Of fucking course not. However, since we're being asinine, it's technically more natural than gays - at least they're having sex with the PROPER opposite sex. There is nothing natural about being gay. That said, I support gays, I don't support pedos.

I was also posting under the assumption, apparently incorrectly, that people would realize I wasn't talking about YOUNG children, like single digits, etc, and that I wasn't referring to straight up rape. If a teen wants to have a relationship with an adult, I don't care what the fuck you try to rationalize your response with, it's up to them to do so and they know what the fuck they are doing. All of you were that age once, you knew what the fuck sex was. Some of you lost your virginity at 13, 14, hell maybe even sooner.

Is it strange for some, say, 30+ to want to be in a CONSENSUAL relationship with someone 13, 14, etc? By societal standards today, sure, it is. Has it always been? Nope. As a matter of fact, more human history has not only supported it but EXPECTED IT than not. Wrap your head around that one. But you outright say that the teen is being raped against their will just because they're "underage", or that the teen didn't know what they were doing (you are, at that point, putting words in their mouth), is just straight bullshit.

Rape against anyone, from the age of 0 to infinity, is rape. I don't condone it against adults OR children. Brain washing, as you say, same thing. Doesn't matter the age, it's wrong. But there ARE cases where the younger of the two KNEW what the fuck they were doing, but the adult gets into trouble because OMG that person is diddling kiddos! Burn them!

Sigh. I could drag this on and on; either you guys are going to pick apart what I say and twist it, or you'll understand what I'm getting at and move on. Either way, from the rest of the responses in the thread, it is very obvious that the majority of them aren't capable of talking about this subject with an open mind or without extreme biases.

templar 331 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Man Thrown in Jail Over Traffic Ticket, Neglected for 17 days and Died.
Macomb County sheriffs picked up Stojcevski in 2014 after he failed to pay a $772 traffic ticket for careless driving. Stojcevski was placed in a jail cell and later a mental health cell, even though a nurse who evaluated Stojcevski suggested putting him in a drug detox unit.
...
Prior to his jail stint, Stojcevski was being treated for his drug addiction with methadone, Xanax, and Klonopin to stave off withdrawal symptoms, which can be deadly. Even a basic knowledge of these drugs and addiction suggests that suddenly yanking Stojcevski off of his medication would cause withdrawal — and that's exactly what happened when jail officials didn't give him the drugs.

Over 17 days, Stojcevski displayed typical withdrawal symptoms. He didn't eat, likely due to withdrawal-induced nausea. He shook and appeared to experience seizures. He seemed to hallucinate, reenacting a previous fight with an inmate. On his last two days, he laid on the floor, shaking and in clear distress.

During all this time, staffers rarely tended to Stojcevski's needs, even though his cell was under surveillance 24 hours a day. As he lay on the floor shaking and not eating his food over 48 hours, no one showed up to help until the very end. But it was too late — he was pronounced dead at the hospital.

So a former druggie gets caught for careless driving and dies from withdrawal in jail. It shouldn't have happened but it's kind of hard for me to care about someone who did the kind of illegal drugs that require methadone to come off of.

Oh yeah demonize addicts who can't help it since they've become addicted.

Their choice, these are the consequences. Anyone who believes drugs aren't addictive is a fool.

I knew a woman who was addicted to Crack after her brother forced her to use it.

So that must be true with every crack head am I right? And god forbid she call the cops on his ass and seeks medical help instead of following his habits.

We don't live in a country with an abundance of programs to help addicts. When they're caught they're thrown in jail.

No but we do have an abundance of programs that teach kids DON'T DO DRUGS! When you choose to do something you were taught as a child was bad it's really hard for me to feel sympathy for you.


I see. So you'd say you hate these people so much, you'd make it so that they die?

No, read a few posts after that. I wouldn't make them die, I just don't feel sorry when they do. He shouldn't have died while in the care of the state.

tyrindor #fundie mmo-champion.com

Some people need to remember many 13 year olds nowadays look 18 with the way they dress and do their makeup. I agree with his sentencing to some extent... Yes, 41 and 13 is beyond sick, but hear me out. This happens a lot... young teenagers wanting sex with someone older, more experienced, or just for bragging rights. They egg them on and many men cave under the pressure. Yes, they are adults and should know between right and wrong however everyone has moments of weakness especially when it comes to sex. However, no matter how you put it they simply didn't rape them.

Why is it that someone get the same sentence for:
1) 41 year old flat out raping a 13 year old.
2) 41 year old having sex with a 13 year old that wanted too.

Your talking about 2 totally different animals here. Both should be punished, I fully agree, but no where near the same. The first should be 10+ years in a maximum security prison, the second should be more around 1-2 years in a minimum security correctional facility... and if/when they do it again charge them with some jail time.

As for girls that are 16-17 and totally lie to older men about their age, I feel the guy should get off with a warning at most. They aren't kids, they knew what they were doing. 16-17 is old enough to be charged as an adult so why is it considered a kid when it comes to sex? The law shouldn't be gray like this, either 16-17 is an adult or it isn't.

She's a minor. She can't consent. Its statutory rape.

]
How can a minor not consent to something? Do you really think people under 18 have the brains of a new born baby? Even a pet can consent to something. 16-17 year olds are charged as adults for murder, even 15 in some rare cases, yet if you have mutual sex with one you go to jail for statutory rape because "they couldn't consent".

The law is totally wrong here. It contradicts itself. Not to mention legal age is much lower in some other countries, and no one seems to have problems with it there. It was also much lower in America hundreds of years ago. It wasn't uncommon for a 13-14 year old to have kid(s), and raise them. It still isn't uncommon in some countries. Yet.. some people believe nowadays a 13 year old can't even consent to something?


May I remind people that some developed nations such as Japan has the age of consent of 13?

Yeah, and it's still freaking creepy. Unless you are saying you want the age of consent changed in UK, which I think I read you don't, is really a moot point.

The age of consent is pretty high in America. When I was 15 I started dating a 12 year old, and no it wasn't a sexual relationship at that age. It was my first girlfriend ever and we were friends for 2 years before that. Shortly after I turned 16, making our age gap 4 years, but then she'd turn 13 about a month later. No one had any problems with it, not even her parents because they knew I was a good guy.

Then 2 years went by and we were still seeing each other. The day I turned 18 she was 14, turning 15 in a month. A few days after my 18th birthday her parents all a sudden did not approve of the relationship because it was now illegal according to law. We broke up, I haven't seen her in 8 years.. and it still depresses me to this day.

Why does a once legal relationship become illegal simply because we BOTH got older? Not only was she my GF, but she was my best friend. I cared greatly for her, but according to society the relationship was all a sudden wrong over night. After my experience I will never support the current age of consent laws.

Itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

[on the age of consent]

If anything it's too high most places, given that a good chunk of teenagers have sex well before they've reached the age of consent. Most adults are stupid too so the stupidity of teenagers shouldn't be used as the barometer. As far as I'm concerned, if you're old enough to experience physical arousal, you're old enough to have sex. It'd be safer to give younger people protection and other advise, rather than the risks they'll take while sneaking around.

Hyve #fundie mmo-champion.com


"An Australian woman who spent eight months in prison in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) on charges of having sex outside of marriage after she was gang-raped told her harrowing story to Yahoo 7 News.

What is happening in the UAE isn't acceptable by our standards, and I don't think it is right to imprison victims, but I think it is even more wrong, to impose our morale views and opinions on another nation. They've built their society to support the needs of Western & Middle-Eastern Businesses. If they start to give more to either side, it becomes too extreme for either party.

It isn't fair on the girl, and my views on rapists are fairly extreme themselves (Castration as punishment), but to go around trying to moralise their world is what has started almost every war, battle and conflict in the Middle East. Just leave their world alone. If you've not done deals, worked and been to these places and seen the people, you can't pretend to know how it really works.

I was unable to sit in on an online video meeting with a few people from the Middle East, because they thought I was too pale and untrustworthy. If you don't look right, or they don't trust you, you don't get the deal. The UAE acts as the middle man, they've got the people needed for all your business desires and needs, and you just tell them what you want to be said and done.

They take a cut, get rich and live happily ever after. If they start allowing women to live a westernised lifestyle, then that Middleman Status is gone.

I don't hold to the notion of moral relativism. What the UAE does is reprehensible regardless of whether or not it might be profitable or convenient, and they should be called out for it.

Why? Please explain why our values, morals and way of life is better then theirs? They're the rich, powerful and successful society with less domestic issues.


I'm well aware mate, just saying we are usually not expressing our concerns with these kind of issues sufficiently. I realize thats part of the game as far as diplomacy goes but it doesn't make it any less hypocritical on our parts.

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

I'm not claiming their society is perfect, far from it, but I would much rather live in their society, and then Western Society, and the Billionaires who visit and live there, seem to think the same.

Skelington #fundie mmo-champion.com

Children being hurt from pedophilia is a social construct. The act itself is inherently harmless. The victimization idea to not let anyone or anything touch you and that those that do are horrible people is something forced into children from a very young age. Couple that with a child molester being aware that what they are doing is illegal and that they are committing one of the most moral atrocities imaginable, and you have a kid more than likely being forced into the acts and threatened into secrecy. Those are what cause the damage.

And forcing counseling on pedophiles or any fetish bearer is little different from forcing counseling on a homosexual to not have sex with their own sex.

underverse #fundie mmo-champion.com

f an underage girl pursued an older male and she initiated sex with him and they both consented, enjoyed it, and she was not traumatized by the experience, then is it still wrong, is anyone really hurt, or is there even a victim at all? The same for an underage male pursuing an older female?

On topic, no there's no damage caused. There's no victim. We just have religious/puritan roots and tolerate sexual interactions to only the most necessary degree.

Can't consent according to the law of most civilized countries.

The difference is that 2 16 year olds have a pretty similar power balance, whereas a 16 and a 21 year old have a completely different one.

Power imbalance is inherent to the vast majority of relationships and is actually a good thing in most cases. It increases the risk of abuse, but it also increases the reward for the weaker party as they are able to obtain extensive resources and knowledge through their power imbalance relationship.

When you consider things like attraction, though, power imbalances generally disappear.

the law dictates that kids are complete absolute 100% dumb fucks.

Kids are deemed so stupidly retarded they cant even answer a simple question 'yes or no' regarding sex

Oh but they can. They can consent to sexual activities with other people their age who are, apparently, just as clueless as they are. An then people wonder why teenage pregnancy and STDs are so prevalent.

If anything, age differences in relationships are safety nets.

Besides if any adult decides to mess with my Daughters, regardless of who initiated the contact, they better invest in some soap on a rope. I'll make damn sure that fucker ends up behind bars.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the parallels with fathers who would say the same thing about a black man 'messing with their daughters' not too long ago are pretty overt.

ut the man opens himself up to a world of hurt should the girl regret her decision, and the law is in place to just give a clear-cut line where it's not any use in saying "but he/she wanted it too!" for the adult. It's to stop adults from taking advantage of young people.

I never understood this argument. When I was younger, I was in a relationship with someone 7 years older than me, for 2 years. I had basically all of the power in that relationship, for a few reasons: one, I could leave whenever I wanted to, and as the object of desire my basis for remaining in the relationship did not involve attraction, but rather behaviors and stability. Two, our culture hates it when older people are in relationships with younger people for some shitty reason, so if anything went wrong I would have the full support of everyone around me. In short, I couldn't be in the wrong, and that gave me a significant amount of power.

If anything, it's the younger person that's taking advantage of the older one. The older one gets some eye candy and maybe fulfills their desire to provide and protect, while resources and knowledge are transferred to the younger one.

The damage people experience as a result of such relationships is largely an outcome of societal condemnation. If you remove a minor's agency and condemn their behaviors - even if they are not responsible for it - you will damage how they view themselves and relationships. That's right - WE are responsible more than the 'perpetrator' of the act for the damage caused by these relationships (in most cases, not all). The only reason I have a solid mental state and positive image of myself and relationships after coming out of that relationship is that I don't give a single fuck about what other people think. I used to, but not anymore after I realized how destructive other people can be just with their opinions, and especially to an underdeveloped mind as my own was when I had to think about these kinds of things at 15.

I want to reduce damage. I also want people to be able to acquire resources and stability if they so choose. Living in a society that condemns relationships with large age differentials and illegalizes them in some cases does neither.

I was in a sexual mentoring relationship with someone significantly older then me. It worked well for me, gave me an edge over my peers, and is party responsible for my success. I'm still good friends with the guy, and though I am not interested in a sexual relationship with him any more he still provides me with guidance. I would not have been able to obtain all of the knowledge and resources I did without the relationship being sexual; it wouldn't have been worth it for him, and I didn't mind/enjoyed it after a few times.

Scrod #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[on rape]

JTBC, my stance in this area reflects my view of incarceration as a whole - I think our society is way too quick to ruin lives with long jail sentences and excessively penurious punishments. You're advocating punishing someone for something they might not have known was wrong at the time they were doing it, because the other party to the act decides later that it was, and that punishment is basically, "ok, might as well give up on having any sort of success for the rest of your life." It seems like a crazy perspective to me - I'd urge to not be so quick to throw lives away.

Kapadons #fundie mmo-champion.com

never understood the big deal with rape. Oh no, you had a penis inside you. The fucking horror. 2 weeks ago you had a penis inside you and you loved It.

Sex isn't that big of a deal. It's just sex. The issue is people attach all these emotions and feelings around sex. It's in your DNA to fuck. You think the wildebeast gets pissed that bull from the other herd rolls up and dumps some cum into her ?

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

In this case I think the punishment he received is a clear deterrent... his bright future is totally gone, everyone who sees the case is not thinking, hell, I'll only get 6 months and be a sex offender forever, who cares let's do this! So the deterrent threshold is met in my opinion.

The real question is, is he irredeemable? And that's where you have to try to get a sense of who he is, and where being a Stanford swimmer comes into play in my opinion. He doesn't just happen to "swim real good", he had to work extremely hard at it (and academically as well). I think it means he's less likely to be a sociopath - you don't get to swim at Stanford if you're someone who is incapable of following the rules of society.

That's also where the drunken freshman factor comes into play for me. And this is all theorizing, but an elite swimmer with Olympic hopes probably had very strict parents - you don't become a good mid distance swimmer without extreme discipline, so there's a chance he never had a drink before college. Then you get to college and alcohol and women are everywhere.

I was a swimmer in college, I never had a drink before I got there. The first event the team had was in theory supposed to be a "workout", but when we got to the event, there was a keg and alcohol pressed on the freshmen until several threw up. The upperclassmen found it funny (and I did as well the next few years as an upperclassman). So you're a freshman, you're suddenly hammered and have no idea how to handle your liquor, and there's all these hookups happening. And men are taught to initiate these encounters and constantly push the envelope (this is just true; try being a man waiting for a woman to approach you and see how much success you have).

Again, the standard here is reasonable doubt, so I see it as a drunk freshman who's suddenly learning that some women might like having sex with him, but only if he initiates everything. He makes out with a girl who's blackout drunk, and takes things way too far.

I think the punishment is too severe, mostly because I don't see a drunk 18 year old thrust into that culture who did a terrible thing as totally irredeemable. It's also because, as others have said, the majority of the punishment happens outside the 6 month jail term, even ignoring the social media hate that's following him around too.

The registered sex offender and felon status he'll carry with him for the rest of his life means many of the opportunities formerly open to him are closed forever. There's nothing he can do to change his status. As an 18 year old it's illegal for him to go back to his high school and there are large areas where he is prevented from going. Most companies will never hire him due to the "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" screening question. His life is ruined. But people want more.

It's interesting to me that liberals are quick to talk about how laws in this country are so extreme and how we have an incarceration/recidivism problem, but that sex crimes bring out such bloodlust. I'd hope we could be more forgiving generally. And yes, I'd have no problem with a longer jail sentence (say 1-2 years) if the sex offender status was something that could be forgiven over time for a first offender.

Itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

I love the hypocrisy of this (not you specifically, just the general attitude people have.)

People against homosexuality can say it's an unnatural pairing because it can't lead to reproduction, and thus shouldn't be supported. But then the supporters try to turn that around, and say "Well then you're saying that people who can't have children for whatever reason shouldn't be allowed to either, right?!" It happens every single time.

But when it comes to incest, those same supporters won't agree if you use the exact same approach and say "Then anyone who even has a chance of passing a disease or disorder shouldn't be allowed to be marry or have children, right?"

Yeah, I kind of sympathize for them, even as a conservative. It strikes me as ridiculous that society is embracing things like homosexuality (which to me is far more strange than a brother and sister) but still condemning incest. Either traditional ideals should remain in tact, or anything should go. There is really no legitimate case to make for in between.

broods #sexist mmo-champion.com

https://www.thelocal.se/20180302/swedish-assault-case-thrown-out-because-man-seemed-to-come-from-a-good-family
A Swedish court ruled that a woman's assault claim against her husband was not credible because, among other things, he "seemed to come from a good family, unlike hers".

In February Solna District Court judged that the Stockholm-based man should be acquitted of an alleged assault against his girlfriend from 2015 because his guilt could not be proven. The woman claimed that he assaulted her by for example pushing her into a chair, striking her and pulling her hair, which the man denied.

P*ssu Pass: DENIED. LOL

They are angry because the court ruled against a woman.

itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

Personally if one of my male friends was attracted to a 12 year old girl, and another was attracted to a 24 year old man, I'd say the one attracted to the 12 year old girl is more normal. Make the girl 3 years old, and I'd possibly change my mind

Puupi #fundie mmo-champion.com

Being forced to take the trash out or being forced to do your homework are a little different to being forced to marry (potentially for life) a man you do not wish to marry, to have sex with him as and when he desires (as is the case in their culture), bear his children without a say in the matter, and risk your life in doing so.

You have to see there is a bit of a difference in those things. Even the most serious things you are forced to do in the west (like... you are forced (pretty much) to go to a particular school by your parents) are really nothing compared to that. Also, in the west you have a lot more legal protection for the extreme things you don't want to do. You have places you can call (child abuse places like Childline) if the things you are being forced to do are too extreme.

I was forced to go to the military (like every man in my country), I was forced to serve my country with my life (literally).

I don't think those are small things. I would do them without being forced, too. But that doesn't change they are being forced upon me.

I really have hard time understanding the demonizing of sex. Everyone WANTS to have sex in their life, it's the best thing in the world.

Now when sex is forced it becomes the WORST AND MOST ATROCIOUS THING IN THE WORLD.

How the fuck does that kind of switch happen.

Not all sexual experiences for all involved parties are pleasurable.

Would you look forward to sex if you were unlikely to orgasm because your partner wasn't interested in your pleasure, or even your comfort? If it was a painful experience for you because you aren't aroused by your partner, would you look forward to doing that again?

Obviously I would not enjoy it and wouldn't look forward to doing that again. But people do other discomforting things, too, because it's part of life and needs to be done. Like work.

GrinningMan #fundie mmo-champion.com

[ NORTH MIAMI, FLA. (WSVN) - A therapist who works with people with disabilities is telling his story after he said police shot him while he was trying to help his patient with autism.

Cellphone video was released Wednesday afternoon showing Charles Kinsey lying on the ground with his hands in the air, telling officers that weapons are not necessary. “When I went to the ground, I went to the ground with my hands up,” Kinsey said, “and I am laying there just like this. Telling them again there is no need for firearms. He is autistic. He has a toy truck in his hand.”

In his hospital bed and wearing bandages, Kinsey said, he was attempting to calm an autistic patient who ran away from a group home. Kinsey could be heard in the video saying, “All he has is a toy truck. A toy truck. I am a behavior therapist at a group home.”

He is also heard asking his patient to calm down. “Rinaldo, please be still, Rinaldo. Sit down, Rinaldo. Lay on your stomach.”

The ordeal went on for a few minutes before Kinsey said one of the officers shot him. “I’m like this right here, and when he shot me, it was so surprising,” Kinsey said. “I thought it was a mosquito bite, and when it hit me I had my hands in the air, and I’m thinking I just got shot! And I’m saying, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ and his words to me were, ‘I don’t know.'” ]

—

Don't be shit. Don't get shot. How is this a fucking difficult concept?

[ How was he shit by doing what he was doing? ]

He put himself in the position instead of just being like 'ok, cops are there, I should just stand back'.

But no, he was shit. The entire situation could have been avoided if he just 'didn't'.

Braindead.

[ He should just let police with no training handle someone that is autistic? How do you think that will unfold? ]

Well probably without him being shot for one. Cops on the scene? It becomes a permissions situation for any third party.

'I am trained to handle developmentally disabled people, may I help?' y/n

[ The story evolved since this thread was opened. When those people were posting, the officer had not given a statement yet.

My sentiment rings true, despite your repeated attempts at claiming I'm being a hypocrite: MMO-C posters love to complain about the police, even when they don't have all the facts. ]

It's the new, hip thing to do after all.

And it's disgusting. Just shows that people nowadays have no interest in behaving with the slightest bit of self-awareness. Why would they take in a situation and behave responsibly when they can blame someone else for how they complicate things -and- get a sick paycheck?

[ Even if that is true, and I am not saying it isn't, why is there no independent thinking on the part of police in these instances. It's just mechanical reaction. Does this man actually look like a threat? I really hate to carry the water of these BLM folks because I think they are fucking stupid, but how can you not see this isn't a man worth shooting. Our revolution was started by a moron with an itchy trigger finger you know... ]

Why did he put himself in the position of being mistaken for a threat instead of waiting for the officers to figure out what was going on? I've had medic friends in plain clothes wait patiently at a scene before waving a cop down and explaining what they can offer as help.

No one got shot when someone applied a little bit of fucking courtesy.

[ At no point are you actually defending or justifying the cop for shooting just victim blaming. ]

waaaaah waaaaaah 'victim blaming'.

The man was educated in how to handle the developmentally disabled, yes? He went to school for it? He has a licensed therapist?

Then he wasn't a victim, he was a moron. A licensed moron that forgot a pretty key detail in offering assistance.

[ Maybe he listened to the people who said that you won't get shot if you're respectful and comply with every demand of the officers. ]

Are you saying that people should do whatever they can to avoid interacting with the police, because they could be shot for no justifiable reason at any given time?
I'm saying don't interact with the police until the situation de-escalates from 'guns are drawn', yes

[ Don't want to get accused of victim blaming? Stop blaming the victim.

Seriously, in what world is it OK to shoot someone lying on their back with their empty hands in the air? ]

Why would I stop blaming the victim when he was behaving in a manner that breaks concentration?

The officers have guns drawn, they are trying to figure out a situation and you have some jag-off flapping his lips while the police are trying to figure out:

A) Is the subject a threat?
B) Does he have a weapon?
C) How are people behaving around him?
D) Who all is connected to him?
E) Could a bystander be armed?
F) Is the subject disoriented?

He was not helping himself in this situation. Stay quiet, wait for officers to de-escalate situation, then explain why you are there.