www.mmo-champion.com

Underverse #psycho mmo-champion.com

I assume you want it banned because of secondary smoking, so justify it in the context of children. Do you think the overall negative impact of having a smoker for a parent is greater than the negative impact of having a parent who had sex with you since childhood?

Yes. If that parent is nurturing and fosters positive traits, I see no reason for harm to be part of this calculation. Sexual interactions (not necessarily penetrative sex - that's quite rare in pre-pubertal individuals who are victims of sexual abuse, more common in ephebes) can serve as a powerful mechanism of pair bonding that can act to strengthen familial ties and improve trust between individuals - as long as you don't have a culture that condemns you as a victim with no agency, and your parents as rapists who are going to jail.

Omgodzilla #psycho mmo-champion.com

What if we started cannibalizing terrorists?
ISIS has done some disgusting things. I think its time, we return the favour. Back in World War 2, some Finnish soldiers
would skin and even cannibalize dead Russian soldiers. Why don't we do the same with ISIS? Why let their meat go to waste? Who cares if its cannibalism? Its still meat, it probably tastes good like any other meat. It would give us an extra source of protein and it would also strike a huge blow to the morale of ISIS fighters if they knew that their dead bodies would be cannibalized like that. They would shit their pants. I think its worth considering. I mean, what's wrong with cannibalism exactly? If the people you're cannibalizing are evil terrorists, then don't they deserve it?

Eldooro #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[on a 10 year old child giving birth in mexico]
If you think 10 year olds are too young, you really shouldn't look at human history.
There's a reason for the remark "if she bleeds, she breeds". Back in the day, before penicillin, infant mortality rate was really high. In addition, you needed kids help to work the farm and whatever. The only way to accomplish a lot of things it to breed as fast as possible. This included what we define as kids.

The big deal for us is 10 year old's have no method to survive on their own. We deem them irresponsible and incapable of making live changing decisions. We believe at 18, you're smart enough for live changing decisions (excluding alcohol, being the President, a member of Congress, etc). From others perceptions about it, they look at us as we're going out of our way to teach children (<18 yo) that they can not be responsible until this magic number 18 hits them. In Texas, it's 17, btw, with a 3 year Romeo and Juliet clause.

....

I think far too often people forget we are still slaves to our biological masters. We're horny because our body says "MAKE BABY NOW!". There are 13 year old that look like 18 AND get in to bars with a fake ID. They are horny like anyone else but are held to a different standard. Right, wrong, or indifferent -- that's the way it is and it'll be a political war to change it. The war won't be able what's best for the children or adults. It'll be what looks best and will help assist in voting people in to power.

In the US, sex is a scary thing. Showing vag in a movie will get you an X rating. But showing someone losing their torso and blood everywhere may still net you a PG-13 or maybe an R. Sex is natural and something your body really likes. Killing, not so much. Personally, I find us as backwards

Ol scratch #fundie mmo-champion.com

As a guy i understand that theirs nothing wrong with rape its more like theft.

Exactly.

People act like it's the worst crime imaginable. It's no worse than a mugging (with equal chances of either being particular brutal if you resist), and nowhere close to attempted murder let alone outright murder. Hell, the vast majority of the animal kingdom, including early man, relied on it just for procreation.

Of course, we're the only modern species I'm aware of that has females who whine and cry and act like the world is coming to an end during childbirth, too. I can almost attribute that to the "oh, I just noticed I cut myself a few minutes ago, but it's only starting to hurt now that I've noticed it" phenomenon.

But the rape thing? It's pretty ridiculous. It's also amazing how it's largely women who act permanently traumatized by the incident, as if their life isn't capable of continuing on just because someone touched and violated their naughty bits without permission. Yet if it's a dude in prison getting brutally ass-raped? Eh, who cares. He'll certainly get over it soon enough, and probably won't even bitch or moan about it for the rest of their life, and act that if they're ever touched by another human being, they'll burst into flames or something.

Scrod #sexist #psycho mmo-champion.com

[on rape]

JTBC, my stance in this area reflects my view of incarceration as a whole - I think our society is way too quick to ruin lives with long jail sentences and excessively penurious punishments. You're advocating punishing someone for something they might not have known was wrong at the time they were doing it, because the other party to the act decides later that it was, and that punishment is basically, "ok, might as well give up on having any sort of success for the rest of your life." It seems like a crazy perspective to me - I'd urge to not be so quick to throw lives away.

Stelio Kontos #homophobia mmo-champion.com

When I started attending the indoctrination centres Americans call college, I was on the fence regarding gay rights. I am Greek Orthodox myself, so I come from a similar religious background as most religious Russians (and others from the Balkans and Eastern Europe).

But as I was exposed to the "gay rights" crowd, I saw nothing but disdain and hatred for my religion. This was quite surprising to me, as learning about the civil rights movement in the US it's obvious faith communities played a vital role. Martin Luther King Jr was a pastor, and he marched with prominent Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox church leaders, along with rabbis and the Muslim community.

So as time has gone on, the view held by most occidentals (westerners) and the bigoted way they talk about any religious views regarding social issues, ended up cementing my view on the issue. I won't condone violence or the killing of gays, but if the Russian government has the backing of the majority of the populace in making laws without being dictated to by less than 5% of the population, more power to them. I'm fine with the Russian laws. I may have been more open to the issue years back, but actually meeting the other side showed me they have no respect or even basic decency for people with religious beliefs. SO I have no reason to support them. At all.

underverse, broods #sexist mmo-champion.com

Drug for pedophiles to be tested in Swedish trial
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/swedish-trial-examine-drug-men-pedophilic-impulses


Underverse: "This is a testosterone lowering drug. You're not just reducing pedophilic behavior. You're reducing sex drive across the board. This is parallel to chemical castration. Immoral, borderline depraved.

If someone actively agrees to it, it's hardly immoral.

Consent does not determine morality, especially considering that individuals often lack complete information or can be indoctrinated to perceive information in a certain way. For example; if someone consents to be sacrificed to the gods the that they will bring the rain, that individual's slaying is still immoral.

Why is chemical castration immoral?The pedophile deserves no sympathy. When you sympathize, you get people who want to protect and even enable pedophiles.

Do you not see how disgustingly immoral this is? What you're advocating for is something worse than a witch hunt. There is zero evidence to suggest that sexual interactions between older and younger individuals are inherently harmful. In fact, there are logical arguments to suggest the opposite. So without evidence that this activity is inherently destructive, you want to go around killing people simply because you disagree with them. That is the worst kind of vigilante justice; it's barbaric and unfounded.

You are the racist of the new generation. "

Broods:"This is a god damn OUTRAGE.

It's almost impossible to get testosterone replacement therapy in Sweden and there is very little research done in regards to the effects of testosterone yet the hormone is integral to the well being of men and low Testosterone levels and hypergonadism has shown to adversely effect the quality of life and mental well being in men. I surely hope if this catches on it will be on a strictly voluntary basis and never offered as a part of a plea deal to get a lesser sentence.
Maybe they should offer this to homosexuals too? If you say homosexuals are born that way then you are obligated to extend the same courtesy to pedophiles.

This reeks of chemical neutering. The very notion is repulsive to me. What's the next step? Chemically neutering homosexuals or any man that is perceived to be too aggressive?

Statistics show that between one in 20, and one in 35 men are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. Due to the high rate of the figure, researchers believed it could be as a result of orientation in the same way as homosexuality or heterosexuality
The very notion is repulsive to me and it sets a scary precedent. Testosterone is what makes men in to men.

Then again if these pedos volunteer for it i'm not going to try and stop them i'm just scared it will become a thing when they see how effective it is. As soon as a man "acts out" or is too aggressive or have a too high libido they will try to get him on a hormone treatment to make him in to a prepubescent boy.

Is it effective? Sure, ask any bodybuilder who has ever been on a supra physiological dose of testosterone what happens when he goes of the drug. No libido, no sex drive. This is something bodybuilders try to avoid which is why they take other drugs to combat the shut down and help their natural test production. Living with low testosterone levels is a nightmare and have very adverse physical and psychological effects.

Not that there is any research being done on male hormones these days because testosterone = bad. Makes men aggressive and sexual.

I'm sure the feminists of this world would be overjoyed if they could control men in this way. Just read some of the articles where they say how "testosterone makes men aggressive, lowers empathy (lol what?) and heightens libido. Like it's some kind of disease they need to cure.

Sure why not, they do their time in prison then go out and rape some more. If catration could make it so they dont feel the need to go rape someone, what harm would it do? other then to the filthy rapists ofc. The world would be a better place with less rapists out there no?

so pretty much anyone convicted of rape then? A 17 year old who has drunken sex with his girlfriend who later claims he raped her. Lets say that he technically did rape her as there wasn't any consent but the circumstances were so that the man could feasibly have inferred consent. Should he get castrated too?
What about if a husband forces himself on his wife? Immediate castration?

I'm starting to think many of you guys would have been very happy to live in a benevolent totalitarian police state. Scary thought

. "

belzibhaal #sexist #psycho #racist mmo-champion.com

I'm nearly 35 and I've been banging the shit out of what is probably one of the hottest 16 year olds in the world for nearly 9 months. In fact, the first time I got her into bed was on her 16th birthday. Am I a degenerate?

Most likely. I realize it's a minority position here, but I think adult men should generally prefer adult women. I get that teens can be hot, but that's pretty much where the attraction ends.

I like all kinds of females. My neighbour has two incredibly gorgeous daughters who will be head turners in a year or so and they are only 12. I spent an amazing weekend in Phoenix making a 39 year old redhead scream while she was at the same hotel on business and I've taken my 49 year old lab manager to bed on more than one occasion.

As long as she's well into puberty or nor fully menopausal, I'll find a female attractive.

Why are blacks called African Americans?

I still call them negros, or isajeeps. The term "african american" just sounds plain stupid


12 year old girl speaks against abortion, and she does it well.

From the looks of this little trollop, she hasn't even hit puberty yet, let alone know what a dick feels like. She hasn't the slightest fucking idea what she is talking about.

On a somewhat related note, I don't consider a human to be a human until they have achieved sentience, so if you want to abort fetuses, have at it. Not sentient = not human.

I'll gladly give her a half cooked grenade.

And a coat hanger so she can give herself that abortion she hates so very much when she gets pregnant to her 35 year old boyfriend a year from now.

BelziBhaal #racist #psycho mmo-champion.com

In fact, I am all for an all white state.

I would gladly live in an all white community where I can be surrounded by bright, intelligent, civilised, law abiding citizens and not have to worry about being assaulted or robbed when I go for a walk in the evening. Could you imagine it? No rap, no hiphop, no R&B. Very little crime, almost no violence and certainly no gang activity.[ Hell, I could let my daughter take the bus to school and walk home without having to worry about her getting raped on the way home. I could even let my kids go to the movies without some degenerates trying to sell them drugs or gang rape them in the cinema parking lot. Hell, they could even ride their bikes down the street without having to always be on their guard and ready to hit the dirt in case of a drive-by.

Sounds like heaven to me.


Itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

Are you implying people don't change after 18? I hope that's a joke. People change physically and mentally throughout their entire lives. There's no magic number for when you're suddenly mature and ready for sex or relationships. Most 30 year olds, or even 25 year olds, would think the typical 18 year old is an idiot. Conversely, I know adults who are less mature than their kids. The only reason most of us are frowning on this is because it's burned into our heads that if anybody above 18 is with anybody below 18, it's creepy, but anything else is good to go. Legality is the only thing stopping a lot of men from 20 to 30 from dating teenagers. Girls like older men with a more rugged look, and a lot of guys like younger girls with a fresh, unused, slender rather than curvy look. If laws weren't a factor, the only thing people would deem creepy would be being interested in prepubescents. That's downright disturbing. I voted I don't know what to say, because 12 is right on the edge of that prepubescent line. Some look as good as any 16 year old, and could be mistaken for one if they fake themselves out in makeup and whatnot, but others look about 7.

Most males are actually "hebephiles". Males are programmed to be attracted (well, physically attracted either way) to females in mid puberty (the difference today is that people reach puberty earlier). The reason most don't act on it or even admit it is laws.

Fixed. I guarantee, if it was legal, there would be a lot more men dating young teenagers

Underverse #psycho mmo-champion.com


it might not be harmful for them to lose their childhood, but it is really, really really fucking wrong. a kid should only have to think about playing, making friends, and doing homework. they shouldn't have to think about the things that come with sex, that's just wrong.
and no, danger isn't a good reason to outlaw bestiality. if danger was a good reason to outlaw something, you'd outlaw smoking and alcohol.

Yes, yes you would. And I think smoking should be outlawed, and I think it will be, with time. Alcohol has other benefits - social lubrication, mostly, that have value to society. Bestiality does not have any value beyond baseline.

So I assume you're okay with people having sex with anyone post-puberty, given your idealistic 'playing, friends, homework' trifecta. So you've lowered the bar to ~12. Logically, I used to agree with that. But I've come to understand that sexual interactions are not innately harmful, not matter the age at which they take place. These organs are functional in all regards except reproduction from the moment we're born. I would rather see parents, like bonobos, use pleasure to calm their kids, instead of violence. Only in this fucked up post-agricultural culture do we think that violence is a more acceptable means of disciplining children. If you're so worried about mental effects, maybe you should start there.

So smoking should be illegal, but parents disciplining their kids by fucking them should be legal?

Context matters. If harm is caused, it needs to be justified with a benefit. The benefit to smoking is feeble at best.

I'm not advocating for rape. Rape is simply a destructive act. But my disdain for rape does not translate into a disdain for sex, or other sexual interactions. In the context of this argument, I would say sexual interactions to calm children would be permissible and preferable to spanking or psychological abuse in the form of isolation. That doesn't mean rape, beatings, or violence.

itisamuh #psycho #racist mmo-champion.com

Well I don't see why it's illegal, or even taboo for that matter. I'd call a brother and sister hooking up less weird than old and young people getting together, or even interracial relationships, and a hell of a lot less weird than homosexuality. Since all of those things aren't really all that frowned upon by our society anymore, there's no legitimate reason for this to be either. I may not like it, but standards are thrown out the window these days. This might as well be okay too, as long as they're both adults or, if not, similar in age. It should be discouraged, yes, but not illegal.

itisamuh #homophobia mmo-champion.com

the normal status quo is man plus woman. It has nothing to do with state vs federal (for me anyway.) I simply see no reason for society to go out of its way to support every single oddity people can come up with. Especially since, if we deviate from the obvious norm once, then why not do it again? Why not legalize incest, provided both parties consent? Why not lower the age of consent to post-puberty, since they do it anyway? Etc. None of those things are "natural restraints" and all of them involve "natural attraction." If we revoke our purely man-made laws for one deviation, then all the others start asking for it, and the reasons for denying them become flemsy. Better to just not cross the line in the first place and have a set standard in my opinion. And that principle can apply to basically everything, not just this. It has nothing to do with "hating" gays, or wanting to deny rights, but rather having more concrete, set standards of life. Of course, as we become a more liberal society, my "archaic" standards will continue to get phased out in the name of goofy political correctness and an "everybody wins!" mentality.

But, as someone said earlier, it gets ridiculous having laws completely change from one state to the next. So as much as I would rather keep my conservative state conservative, I understand why the federal government steps in sometimes

Hyve #sexist mmo-champion.com

It was a mutually exclusive deal. The women must cover herself in front of men, to stop any temptation, and at home, she is free to dress as she wishes. These days though, that has been taken totally out of context, and had religious views stamped all over it.

Sadly, this isn't restricted purely just to Middle-Eastern Societies, but it is more prevalent due to the media coverage. Over here, we allow women to dress as they please, and rape cases are higher here, then they are in the Middle East. Now, I'm not saying they've got a good system, but merely pointing out, they had an old system (and I am talking, hundreds, if not thousands of years by the way) that ensured that both Men & Women were safe and could lead happy lives.

Itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

A new law in Iran that allows men to marry their adopted daughters at the age of 13 has caused major concern that the country's new president is not as progressive as originally thought.

As far as I'm concerned, if you've been through puberty, you're ready for sex. Let's face it, people at that age are going to do it whether they're supposed to or not. The only reason it's illegal is because we decided to make it so, not because there's any legitimate sense behind it. People change physically and mentally through their entire lives, there's no one age where someone is suddenly mature enough to not be taken advantage of. Adults get taken advantage of and played all the time, that doesn't mean they're getting raped.


Cheerleader, Molly Shattuck, Rapes 15-year-old boy, has to spend weekends in jail.

Another fine example of why statutory rape laws are largely bogus, and age of consent in general is a flawed system. In most of these cases the teenager knows exactly what is going on, and loves every second of it either way. And before anyone suggests it since they always do, I would feel the same if the genders were reversed. An adult man hooking up with a teenage girl, an adult woman hooking up with a teenage boy. It makes no difference to me either way, because it should not be a crime at all in my opinion. People that age are going to be having sex anyway, so there is no point punishing their partners over something harmless.


If it were up to me, the first time someone committed a crime, it would be (depending on the crime) however much time in jail or prison, and a fine. If that person later commits the same crime (so any repeat offender of anything) then they would be executed. If the penalty for crime was greater, people would be less likely to do it. The only problem I really see with my idea is with rape. Too often these days is that getting falsely accused, and if the people had sex, there is no way to really prove whether it was or was not forced. As an anti feminist, I would hate a system where if a guy gets unlucky and dates two bitches who accuse him of rape after they break up, he gets executed.

IGEORGETOWN, Texas – A 19-year-old Texas man who could face years in prison for making brownies laced with marijuana and hash oil said Wednesday he remains scared despite new evidence that his attorney believes should reduce the charges.

How amusing that this site is so pro drug. I hope he gets locked up for a very long time (not life) and learns not to be so stupid in the future.

State seizes 11-year-old & arrests mother after he defends medical marijuana
On March 24, cannabis oil activist Shona Banda‘s life was flipped upside-down after her son was taken from her by the State of Kansas. The ordeal started when police and counselors at her 11-year-old son’s school conducted a drug education class. Her son, who had previously lived in Colorado for a period of time, disagreed with some of the anti-pot points that were being made by school officials. “My son says different things like my ‘Mom calls it cannabis and not marijuana.’ He let them know how educated he was on the facts,” said Banda in an exclusive interview... Banda successfully treated her own Crohn’s disease with cannabis oil.

Seems perfectly fair to me, seeing as she proved herself to be an unfit parent. Legal or not, there is no excuse for drugs, much less around a child.

GrinningMan #fundie mmo-champion.com

[ NORTH MIAMI, FLA. (WSVN) - A therapist who works with people with disabilities is telling his story after he said police shot him while he was trying to help his patient with autism.

Cellphone video was released Wednesday afternoon showing Charles Kinsey lying on the ground with his hands in the air, telling officers that weapons are not necessary. “When I went to the ground, I went to the ground with my hands up,” Kinsey said, “and I am laying there just like this. Telling them again there is no need for firearms. He is autistic. He has a toy truck in his hand.”

In his hospital bed and wearing bandages, Kinsey said, he was attempting to calm an autistic patient who ran away from a group home. Kinsey could be heard in the video saying, “All he has is a toy truck. A toy truck. I am a behavior therapist at a group home.”

He is also heard asking his patient to calm down. “Rinaldo, please be still, Rinaldo. Sit down, Rinaldo. Lay on your stomach.”

The ordeal went on for a few minutes before Kinsey said one of the officers shot him. “I’m like this right here, and when he shot me, it was so surprising,” Kinsey said. “I thought it was a mosquito bite, and when it hit me I had my hands in the air, and I’m thinking I just got shot! And I’m saying, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ and his words to me were, ‘I don’t know.'” ]

—

Don't be shit. Don't get shot. How is this a fucking difficult concept?

[ How was he shit by doing what he was doing? ]

He put himself in the position instead of just being like 'ok, cops are there, I should just stand back'.

But no, he was shit. The entire situation could have been avoided if he just 'didn't'.

Braindead.

[ He should just let police with no training handle someone that is autistic? How do you think that will unfold? ]

Well probably without him being shot for one. Cops on the scene? It becomes a permissions situation for any third party.

'I am trained to handle developmentally disabled people, may I help?' y/n

[ The story evolved since this thread was opened. When those people were posting, the officer had not given a statement yet.

My sentiment rings true, despite your repeated attempts at claiming I'm being a hypocrite: MMO-C posters love to complain about the police, even when they don't have all the facts. ]

It's the new, hip thing to do after all.

And it's disgusting. Just shows that people nowadays have no interest in behaving with the slightest bit of self-awareness. Why would they take in a situation and behave responsibly when they can blame someone else for how they complicate things -and- get a sick paycheck?

[ Even if that is true, and I am not saying it isn't, why is there no independent thinking on the part of police in these instances. It's just mechanical reaction. Does this man actually look like a threat? I really hate to carry the water of these BLM folks because I think they are fucking stupid, but how can you not see this isn't a man worth shooting. Our revolution was started by a moron with an itchy trigger finger you know... ]

Why did he put himself in the position of being mistaken for a threat instead of waiting for the officers to figure out what was going on? I've had medic friends in plain clothes wait patiently at a scene before waving a cop down and explaining what they can offer as help.

No one got shot when someone applied a little bit of fucking courtesy.

[ At no point are you actually defending or justifying the cop for shooting just victim blaming. ]

waaaaah waaaaaah 'victim blaming'.

The man was educated in how to handle the developmentally disabled, yes? He went to school for it? He has a licensed therapist?

Then he wasn't a victim, he was a moron. A licensed moron that forgot a pretty key detail in offering assistance.

[ Maybe he listened to the people who said that you won't get shot if you're respectful and comply with every demand of the officers. ]

Are you saying that people should do whatever they can to avoid interacting with the police, because they could be shot for no justifiable reason at any given time?
I'm saying don't interact with the police until the situation de-escalates from 'guns are drawn', yes

[ Don't want to get accused of victim blaming? Stop blaming the victim.

Seriously, in what world is it OK to shoot someone lying on their back with their empty hands in the air? ]

Why would I stop blaming the victim when he was behaving in a manner that breaks concentration?

The officers have guns drawn, they are trying to figure out a situation and you have some jag-off flapping his lips while the police are trying to figure out:

A) Is the subject a threat?
B) Does he have a weapon?
C) How are people behaving around him?
D) Who all is connected to him?
E) Could a bystander be armed?
F) Is the subject disoriented?

He was not helping himself in this situation. Stay quiet, wait for officers to de-escalate situation, then explain why you are there.

alexkeren #fundie mmo-champion.com

[ NORTH MIAMI, FLA. (WSVN) - A therapist who works with people with disabilities is telling his story after he said police shot him while he was trying to help his patient with autism.

Cellphone video was released Wednesday afternoon showing Charles Kinsey lying on the ground with his hands in the air, telling officers that weapons are not necessary. “When I went to the ground, I went to the ground with my hands up,” Kinsey said, “and I am laying there just like this. Telling them again there is no need for firearms. He is autistic. He has a toy truck in his hand.”

In his hospital bed and wearing bandages, Kinsey said, he was attempting to calm an autistic patient who ran away from a group home. Kinsey could be heard in the video saying, “All he has is a toy truck. A toy truck. I am a behavior therapist at a group home.”

He is also heard asking his patient to calm down. “Rinaldo, please be still, Rinaldo. Sit down, Rinaldo. Lay on your stomach.”

The ordeal went on for a few minutes before Kinsey said one of the officers shot him. “I’m like this right here, and when he shot me, it was so surprising,” Kinsey said. “I thought it was a mosquito bite, and when it hit me I had my hands in the air, and I’m thinking I just got shot! And I’m saying, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ and his words to me were, ‘I don’t know.'” ]

—

[ It was a toy truck. I mean are the cops fucking blind? ]

Clearly you are. The cops aren't in the cell phone footage at the beginning yet you can't really tell what the boy is holding.

It's safer to act on the assumption based upon the 911 call the boy is armed until you have actual visual confirmation otherwise.

All you armchair cops really need to go through some of the simulations being offered to clueless people like yourselves.

Templar 331 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Texas jail ignores woman in labor, gives birth in solitary confinement and baby dies .WICHITA COUNTY, Texas — A woman held on drug charges in the Wichita County Jail in 2012 filed a suit against Wichita County and other entities for allowing her to deliver her baby in solitary confinement without help, resulting in the infant’s death. ....The suit claims about 6:30 p.m. the same day, Guerrero started experiencing labor-like symptoms, but Anderson listened to the baby’s heartbeat and sent Guerrero back to her cell, the lawsuit states.

Approximately 11 p.m. Guerrero started feeling intensified labor-like symptoms, the suit claims.

“Recognizing that something was wrong, Plaintiff pushed the medical emergency button, seeking assistance for her worsening condition. Plaintiff continued to push the medical emergency button, but her requests for help were ignored until 3:30 a.m.,” the lawsuit alleges.

According to the lawsuit, around 3:30 a.m. detention officers took Guerrero to the nurse station, but she was not examined, and Anderson told Guerrero the complications were probably from the prescription medication she was given by the doctor.

“Subsequently, detention officers escorted Plaintiff to the 'cage' and she was given a mat to lay on. Shortly thereafter, Plaintiff’s pain worsened, and she began to experience intense pressure ... in obvious distress, began to moan, scream and cry,” the suit claims. “She also attempted to talk herself through this ordeal, since she was not receiving any medical assistance.”


I feel no sympathy for the mother, but the death of the child is square on the feet of the officers and nurse. More than likely nothing will happen to them.

Curious why you say that. Are you saying that being arrested and in jail for drugs morally justifies having a family member (the baby) who is innocent in this scenario die?

No, the child was innocent and deserved to live even if the mother was a criminal. Why I feel no sympathy for her is because of her actions, she put herself in this situation. Had she been a law abiding citizen, she wouldn't of had this misfortune. If she truly cared about the child, she wouldn't be doing illegal things like being in possession of illegal drugs or theft.

templar 331 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Man Thrown in Jail Over Traffic Ticket, Neglected for 17 days and Died.
Macomb County sheriffs picked up Stojcevski in 2014 after he failed to pay a $772 traffic ticket for careless driving. Stojcevski was placed in a jail cell and later a mental health cell, even though a nurse who evaluated Stojcevski suggested putting him in a drug detox unit.
...
Prior to his jail stint, Stojcevski was being treated for his drug addiction with methadone, Xanax, and Klonopin to stave off withdrawal symptoms, which can be deadly. Even a basic knowledge of these drugs and addiction suggests that suddenly yanking Stojcevski off of his medication would cause withdrawal — and that's exactly what happened when jail officials didn't give him the drugs.

Over 17 days, Stojcevski displayed typical withdrawal symptoms. He didn't eat, likely due to withdrawal-induced nausea. He shook and appeared to experience seizures. He seemed to hallucinate, reenacting a previous fight with an inmate. On his last two days, he laid on the floor, shaking and in clear distress.

During all this time, staffers rarely tended to Stojcevski's needs, even though his cell was under surveillance 24 hours a day. As he lay on the floor shaking and not eating his food over 48 hours, no one showed up to help until the very end. But it was too late — he was pronounced dead at the hospital.

So a former druggie gets caught for careless driving and dies from withdrawal in jail. It shouldn't have happened but it's kind of hard for me to care about someone who did the kind of illegal drugs that require methadone to come off of.

Oh yeah demonize addicts who can't help it since they've become addicted.

Their choice, these are the consequences. Anyone who believes drugs aren't addictive is a fool.

I knew a woman who was addicted to Crack after her brother forced her to use it.

So that must be true with every crack head am I right? And god forbid she call the cops on his ass and seeks medical help instead of following his habits.

We don't live in a country with an abundance of programs to help addicts. When they're caught they're thrown in jail.

No but we do have an abundance of programs that teach kids DON'T DO DRUGS! When you choose to do something you were taught as a child was bad it's really hard for me to feel sympathy for you.


I see. So you'd say you hate these people so much, you'd make it so that they die?

No, read a few posts after that. I wouldn't make them die, I just don't feel sorry when they do. He shouldn't have died while in the care of the state.

Shinra1 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Actor Anthony Rapp has accused Kevin Spacey of making a sexual advance at him when Rapp was 14, Buzzfeed reported Sunday.

In an interview with Buzzfeed, Rapp said Spacey picked him up, put him on his bed and "was trying to get with me sexually." Spacey was 26 at the time.

In response to the allegations, Spacey tweeted that he was "beyond horrified to hear [Rapp's] story."

Spacey tweeted: "I honestly do not remember the encounter, it would have been over 30 years ago.
"But if I did behave then as he describes, I owe him the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior, and I am sorry for the feelings he describes having carried with him all these years."

I think we should all be very careful and not try and crucify this man who is an extremely apologetic and redeemable figure who has done more good than bad. I've been on twitter this morning and many people are bashing him for trying to deflect with him coming out as gay.
I even feel bad for him because it was such a long time ago and he cannot remember. There's no right or wrong way to apologise for doing something like this. I think all the holier-than-thou crowd should have several seats and shut up.

*If* the allegation is true, how do we do the ethical calculus here? How much good does somebody have to do in order to attempt to force themselves on a 14 year old?

If the allegation is true, I can still forgive him and look past his previous actions. We've all made mistakes in the past and this is no different. We obsess over a moment in a bedroom 30 years ago while most of the world is struggling to find something to eat or fighting off fanantics and criminals and rising oceans. Probably most shocked and outraged tweeters are busy watching PornHub 3 hours a day, cheating on their spouses, buying sex toys, or checking out students coming home from the local high school—
I think we need to save the moral outrage for others not a closeted gay man who was pressured to repress his sexuality by everyone.

So trying to solicit sex from a minor is not taking advantage of them? The guy seems to remember the incident pretty clearly so it wasn't forgettable to him.


The gay rumours have been swirling for decades. Hollywood used to be and still is largely homophobic and gay actors are forced to deny their orientation for the sake of keeping their careers afloat. His repressed sexuality could have led him to act out in this predatory manner as he wouldn't have had the chance to be out and openly gay in public. In short, I'm saying that his behaviour could be explained as a symptom of his mental anguish. We should empathise with him and look beyond our own hubris to crucify a man who is a victim of society as much as his own victim

Why was he at a party where there was alcohol all on his own? He was out most of the night so where were his parents? Why did he wander off into bedroom and not just go home? Space was obviously drunk and has no recollection of the incident. Rapp has waited until now to speak out, yet has told the story to others over the years. It has obviously become his 'Dinner Party Piece' and has become elaborated upon over the years. He probably believes it all himself by now, but that does not mean it is all totally true.
Even if it was, Kevin spacey is completely redeemable and he shows remorse.

It also doesn't mean it's not true. It also does not mean Spacey is redeemable.

The psychology of being closeted is dark and cruel and self-punishing. That Spacey has dwelt in that for years is sad. Not to mention how he hasn't been able to live authentically for the past 58 years. He apologised. What more do you want him to do?

If it's true, the he is added to the vermin-list.. there are no exceptions there, even if you are famous ffs... He should never get a gig again in his life, simple as that!

No, it's not forgivable to ruin someones life and then redeem yourself with good movies or whatever BS... You striked out, simple as that!


Get off the soap box. You holier-than-thou lot make me so angry. May he without sin cast the first stone.
Humans are ALL redeemable. Even the ones that kill other Humans. Yes, even the ones on Death row

Well, this whole deflection by Spacey reminds me of the whole Caitlin Jenner thing, she killed a woman by pushing her car into on coming traffic. Soon after, she comes out as trans, everyone totally forgets she just killed someone, and it falls off the radar, Spacey looks like an idiot for this, if i were his lawyer i would be losing my shit right now.

No he doesn't look like an idiot. He is very smart which is why he chose to 'come-out' now, even though everyone already knew. Don't forget that Kevin is also very much a victim. His father was a failed writer who was also sexually and physically abusive towards him and he also was a nazi extremist/sympathiser.

I feel bad for both Rapp and Spacey. And I will still watch and support Spacey. He is an American hero.

a pedo is an American hero jesus fucking christ

There is no proof that he was the p word. And even then being the p word is not a crime. There are many p words living well-adjusted lives and they have learnt to suppress their urges and you probably have crossed path with them before or they might even live in your neighbourhood. BEFORE YOU MAKE MY POST ABOUT THIS, I'M TELLING YOU ITS NOT ABOUT DEFENDING P WORDS BUT ABOUT USING THE CORRECT NOMENCLATURE. The only 'crime', and I use that word dubiously, is lifting the boy onto his bed which can be explained as drunken behaviour.
All I'm saying is that there are biggest things to focus your hate and anger towards than a gay 58 year old man whose nazi father used to beat up and molest until his late teens.

I'm not on Kevin's side. I'm on the side of the victim which is Rapp but that doesn't mean I condemn Kevin to death or wish him harm. As I mentioned on the previous pages of this thread: Kevin is a tortured soul whose father abused him so I can find it in my heart to forgive him for allegedly touching a 14 year old (a grown kid basically who knows right from wrong and had a job) inappropriately 30 years ago.

Humans are flawed. There's no one who is perfect.

Fencers #fundie mmo-champion.com

People shouted ‘jump’ before suicidal man fell to his death
http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/16/people-shouted-jump-before-suicidal-man-fell-to-his-death-5106465/?ito=v-b
A suicidal man died when he fell from a building after people shouted ‘get on with it’ and ‘jump’ while police tried to coax him back from the edge.Some people even filmed the victim, aged in his 40s, as he fell to the floor on Saturday afternoon and one person was heard asking ‘how far can you bounce?’Police were called to the scene in Telford, West Midlands, and have since criticised those who shouted to the man.
Inspector Ben Smith said: ‘It is pretty appalling because it is someone who is clearly in need of support and assistance. That behaviour is something we would condemn.‘Clearly what that individual needed was time and space and a professional to help them out.
The individual would have been in need of care and support and appropriate intervention from medical professionals, so anything like that to encourage someone to jump should be unequivocally condemned.’
Kelly-Anne Taylor, 35, from Telford, said: ‘People were recording it with their phones and yelling at him to jump.
I can’t stop thinking about it. I was up town when it was happening and how much I wish I could have tried to help him.’

I do not see what the offense is here. The universe is indifferent to your being, and people have no obligation or duty to be sympathetic your being either.
It is very likely strangers to the "jumper" viewed the individual as annoyingly occupying time &/or space. At best believing the stunt to be overly dramatic and insultingly selfish, or at worst viewing the individual as mentally ill.

In either view there is no object reason a passerby need feel or discourage others from their self harming mania.
Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom.

When someone is in an unstable state shouting at them, let alone advising them to kill themselves could definitely be considered infringing on their safety.

Your safety is what I clearly am talking about above. It is not necessary to be outraged people are jumping off buildings as long as it is not effecting those walking by or the infrastructure one maneuvers within.
Which jumping off buildings does effect, naturally. However it is that which should outrage an individual- that it inconvenience your day and probably cost some money to clean up.

Outrage because one may think some passerby is an "asshole" is foolish. Outrage out of some "moral" stance is unnecessary.

I wonder if you'd say the same thing if it was one of your loved ones being encouraged by apathetic strangers to kill themselves.

I would
The state of the loved one is important to me, but I do not believe others have a duty or obligation to be sympathetic to my loved ones or my feelings toward a loved one.

Imagine a different scenario:
I come across a child with obviously diminished mental capacity holding a hand gun. I heckle the child telling it that it should put the gun in its mouth and pull the trigger. The child does.
Would you be outraged? Would the situation be so different?

At your heckling? No.
At the circumstances that lead to a person with diminished mental capacity having a firearm, probably so. Because it is not in the best interest of myself, and society in general, to have firearms so accessible.
You would be a jerk, sure. The heckling is not where I would say valid outrage should be directed, however.

Endersblade #fundie mmo-champion.com

http://news.sky.com/story/1125379/cps-suspends-lawyer-from-sex-abuse-cases

41 year old man walks free as judge callls 13 year old a Predator


Neil Wilson is 41 years old. He took a 13-year-old girl home, allowed her to strip and then engaged in what we must euphemistically refer to as a “sex act” with her. For this and other offences including the possession of eight images of child sexual abuse and eleven sexual images involving horses and dogs, he received an eight-month suspended sentence. But it’s not the lenience of the punishment that has pushed the case into the headlines. It's the comments of the prosecutor and judge.Neil Wilson, 41, faces having his eight-month suspended jail sentence reviewed after the Attorney General Dominic Grieve agreed to look into the case yesterday. And the Crown Prosecution Service was forced to admit that its own prosecutor acted “inappropriately” when he placed a portion of the responsibility upon the victim in court.
For more than two weeks, writer Caroline Criado-Perez has been leading a fight against the threats of violence online, which followed her banknote victory. Speaking today, she said: “This latest incident is the very front line of the sexism that still pervades UK society. For two weeks, Twitter has been awash rape and death threats against women who dare to speak out against abuse. The women are accused ‘provoking’ them.
“Now we have seen where this kind of attitude ends up: with what looks like a judge calling a 13-year-old girl a ‘sexual predator’ and letting her abuser off with a suspended sentence.”

I've had this conversation with a few of my friends, when one of my other friends got 'busted' for a similar thing - he was 20, his gf was 17, and they'd been dating since he was 17 and she was 14. He and his dad got into an argument over something unrelated, and his dad dimed him out to the cops. He is now and forever will be labeled a sex offender, and that is just complete and utter bullshit. I do not, in any way, condone the coercion and/or rape/abuse of underage kids, but for fuck's sake, 13 year olds know what the fuck they're doing, it's not like they don't know what the hell they're getting into when someone wants to have sex with them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fucking blindly ignorant.

I have absolutely no bloody idea when or where or why this suddenly became taboo, people have been having relationships with pre-18 year olds for centuries, and now suddenly it's against the law. K. Seems legit. I personally have zero interest in someone that age; hell, I wouldn't date anyone under the age of 25, and even that's kinda pushing it. But some people have different tastes and different views. Again, as long as it's willful on both sides, who are we to judge?

I for one am GLAD that not only did he NOT get into trouble for this, but that SHE did, because at least it wasn't just an open and shut case where everyone was biased and automatically assumed foul play on his part against someone who didn't have any idea what she was doing...because obviously, she did. It's just refreshing to see such a change-up.

Sherrimayin #sexist mmo-champion.com

After being charged with two counts of rape for sexually assaulting two of his classmates while they were unconscious, 18-year-old David Becker was sentenced last week to just two years of probation without having to register as a sex offender by a judge in Massachusetts last week.


Honestly we treat rapists quite horribly in the US.

They did something wrong yes, but for most anyone with a criminal record they are met with such disdain that there isn't a 'Pay your debt to society and move on with life.'

It's funny, a lot of Liberals are out for blood against rapists, yet praise the European System with every lick of their words. Forgetting that a lot of European Countries treat rapists, murderers, and thieves with respect and actually rehabilitate.


...Also as far as rape goes this kid did a misdemeanor at BEST. He didn't penetrate them with his dick, it wasn't a violent sexual assault, he stuck his finger in a pussy or two while they were sleeping. I've seen more abuses against guys who end up passed out at a party.

Did you see the video of the guy duck taped to a chair and rolled all throughout the town?

This kid got probation, if anything I bet he'll be more careful with his finger.


I dont know your sex, but if some dude finger blasted you or your wife/kid, you would be cool with it being a slap on the wrist misdemeanor?

I was a victim of sexual assault at a young age.

But I also know our prison system is an abhorrent abuse against human rights. It has become so disgusting with its use of prison labor as a cheap workforce that there's actually financial incentive to lock up people. Check out the Judge who literally locked up thousands of teenagers and was paid kickbacks by the prison system to do so. Great title 'Cash for Kids.'

We don't know all the facts but we can understand the following.

1. The girls were asleep, and woke up to him performing the act.

2. He is not going to their school/university.

3. David was 18, and while that doesn't determine innocence or guilt, it was definitely an act of youth.

Now the frustrating part, to me, is that they published his name. Whether or not he gets his record expunged, that name is up on google and will haunt him eternally.

We need to treat criminality as a disease that can be solved, not as an untreatable character flaw baked into the psyche.


See here's the really funny thing.

If a guy gets drunk and fucks a girl, and she gets pregnant, and wants to keep it. He's on the hook for life. Financially etc.

She has RAPED him of a future.

But that's not illegal, in fact, there's little recourse for him to not be financially screwed.

In fact, this one woman, had sex with a guy when he was 15, they got found out, it later turns out she's pregnant, has a child, and when he's like 21-22, working as a doctor or something, the state wants THOUSANDS of dollars of Child Support. FROM HIM.


That's a future, an entire future of hopes, dreams, soul searching, put on hold because a woman decided to have a child without his consent.

Yet the common knowledge is 'Don't stick your dick in crazy.' or 'It's your fault for getting her pregnant.'

Now I'm not saying that's worse than a woman being raped, I'm just saying, there are equivalent situations and challenges to both sexes. But only in the male scenarios are personal responsibilities looked at.

Let me put it this way, a woman never deserves to be raped or sexually assaulted. Just as a person never deserves to be hit by a car.

Yet if you drink to the point where you put yourself in harms way, like getting wasted and running in front of heavy traffic, regardless of the fault of harm, you still had a part in it.


Itisamuh #fundie mmo-champion.com

If a bunch of gays moved to a state, for the example, California and lobbied to outlaw straight marriage and won would you support that state's decision?

I mean it is the states right correct? Just as it is their right to outlaw gay marriage.


No, because the normal status quo is man plus woman. It has nothing to do with state vs federal (for me anyway.) I simply see no reason for society to go out of its way to support every single oddity people can come up with. Especially since, if we deviate from the obvious norm once, then why not do it again? Why not legalize incest, provided both parties consent? Why not lower the age of consent to post-puberty, since they do it anyway? Etc. None of those things are "natural restraints" and all of them involve "natural attraction." If we revoke our purely man-made laws for one deviation, then all the others start asking for it, and the reasons for denying them become flemsy. Better to just not cross the line in the first place and have a set standard in my opinion. And that principle can apply to basically everything, not just this. It has nothing to do with "hating" gays, or wanting to deny rights, but rather having more concrete, set standards of life. Of course, as we become a more liberal society, my "archaic" standards will continue to get phased out in the name of goofy political correctness and an "everybody wins!" mentality.

But, as someone said earlier, it gets ridiculous having laws completely change from one state to the next. So as much as I would rather keep my conservative state conservative, I understand why the federal government steps in sometimes.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

My only point is that shoot to kill should not be a cops first priority. How many police shootings have we seen in the past 2 or 3 years. Clearly there is a major problem with training that needs to be addressed.

Well the major issue here is that we don't collect good stats on police shootings. So there's no actual answer. Instead what we have is everyone picking out individual events and making huge generalizations based on them. We're a big country and we're armed to the teeth. Police shootings happen. Whether there are too many? That's a very tough question to answer.

And like sexual assault, the media loves hyping these cases because there tends to be a lot of ambiguity. Police are supposed to use force to subdue criminals, and sometimes the use of lethal force is necessary. It's very hard to tell definitively what happened in a lot of cases, so our "beyond a reasonable doubt" system tends to find people innocent. Likewise, people are supposed to have sex, and when one participant comes out crying rape it's unfortunately a he said/she said situation, and again, "beyond a reasonable doubt" means they get off. I'm mostly ok with this because I don't have an expectation that our system is going to be perfect in all situations - these are the situations where there's generally no great answer and I'm happier staying biased towards keeping people out of jail.

Endersblade, puupi #fundie mmo-champion.com

on what the age of consent should be


do agree that people should require a licence to have kids, be able to demonstrate they they have the financial means to support the child (maybe an insurance type thing for instance that they have paid into), and and intelligence test would not go amiss. Together with genetic screening to make sure no congenital diseases are passed on.
Harsh? maybe, but society should not have to pay for other people's choices or mistakes.


Endersblade:The last time I mentioned something like this, I got called Hitler lol. I wholeheartedly agree. But that is really beyond the scope of this thread.

And to the guy complaining about the 19 and 14 year old scenario: I had a 19 year old male friend with a 14 year old girlfriend. She asked HIM out, and he had to practically beat her off with a stick. She wanted sex constantly. He and I lived together at the time, I witnessed that indeed, HE was not the raper. I had no problems with it, other than she was a little bitch. They both knew what they got into, and they were both consenting to it.

12?wow you sir are one sick puppy.

While I don't agree to 12, care to explain why without using words like "ew" and "gross" and "against X"? You just have a preconceived notion, thanks to our wonderful society, that 12 is a bad age. But 12 year olds have sex too. I know, what a shocker. Finally old enough to start showing a bit of ankle, and they're already having SEX! Stone them!



A 19 year old sleeping with a 14 year old is pretty fucked up .

Puupi : Not really. It's very common. Besides, more often than not you can't even distinguish the physical and mental difference between a 19 year old boy and 14 year old girl. Girls develop so much faster.


Shinra1 #fundie mmo-champion.com

NO. Absolutely NOT. There's something creepy and disturbing about this. I have no issues with single woman adopting children but something about a single man at home with a child alone just screams molestation to me. What if pedos use this to groom kids?

I think it's really weird when you adopt a child as a single. You wanna give that child a mother and a father, not just a father or mother.

And who wants to volunteer for single parenthood, lol?

Odd.
What about two dads? Or two mums? Are you a bigot?

ForLoveOfMe #sexist mmo-champion.com

Ofc. If you are ugly you are creep regardless what you do. You cross eyesight, omfg you are a creep staring at them. Need consent to say hi!

If you are good looking you can "rape" them anytime! That's modern feminism logic 101. Heck they might even found out they are into rape and S&M, I mean 50 Shades of Gray was popular for a reason...

Endersblade #fundie mmo-champion.com


again hes to young to consent

Really. How fucking stupid and oblivious were you at 16? I knew what sex was, and I'm pretty damned sure if some semi-attractive teacher was coming onto me, I'd be coming into her at every chance I got. "YES, I AGREE TO SEX". Man, that's so tough, I just can't imagine a 16 year old knowing how to do that.

But sure, go ahead and stick these ideas in his head. "You're too young, you don't know what you're doing." Uh, sticking my dick where the gods intended it to go? Right, again, he had no idea what he was doing, because he was just a dumb kid and didn't know any better, right?

Sometimes I wonder what gives people like you the right to breed, or even make decisions for others. It really scares me.

Flip this situation around: Two male teachers have a threeway with a 16 year old girl.

You better bet those two are going to jail for life.

Again, who gives a shit? What's with the double standard? In that situation, she STILL knew what she was doing. You people are so fucked up in the head when you bring out shit like this, like we're supposed to raise pitch forks if it happens to a chick, but meh if it happens to a dude. Same situation, same response: They knew what they were doing. Consent is fucking consent

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

For example, some unpopular opinions I have that I'll never say in public:

1. There probably isn't a rape culture: There's a culture where we let 18 year olds get black out drunk and men are encouraged to be the aggressors in sexual encounters, so bad things happen. But throwing 18 year old men in jail for years at a time for groping someone is not the right answer.

2. 77 cents on the dollar is a nonsense statistic: it doesn't adjust for hours worked, career, flexibility, etc. If you adjust for those things it's more like 98 cents on the dollar, and there's very little evidence of sexism in the workplace. The debate should be about whether it makes sense that women tend to take lower paying jobs with more flexible hours because of their role in childcare.

3. The shooting of black men is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is lack of access to education and opportunity for blacks that leads to them ending up on the street. Many of the victims of police attacks were criminals who were pulled over/scared officers for a reason. We're asking the police to do too much to fix the problems created by our educational system.

Shinra1 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Perhaps a 14 year old girl who for whatever silly reasons feels as if she was raped, and is facing a lifetime of more rape, and is probably going to be expected to bear the children of whom she feels is her rapist, which could very possibly kill her? Do you not acknowledge any remote possibility that this girl felt she had been raped? Growing up in a culture that condones rape doesn't make the rape victim feel any less raped, it just allows the rapist to escape culpability.

Refusing to put out for your Husband is not rape in their country so you cannot call it rape. Marital rape has only been a crime in the West for what only 30-40 years? Again with the double standards and the righteousness...

Shinra1 #fundie mmo-champion.com

BBC - A Pakistani woman who was set on fire for refusing a marriage proposal has died of her injuries
Maria Sadaqat, a young schoolteacher, was attacked in her home by a group of men on Sunday and died in hospital in Islamabad on Wednesday. Her family say she had turned down a marriage proposal from the son of the owner of a school she had taught at. Campaigners say attacks on women who refuse marriage proposals are common in Pakistan.

Maria's father has said the school owner was one of the men who attacked his daughter. Police told the BBC that the men beat her and doused her in petrol before setting her alight near the hill resort of Murree, not far from the capital. She suffered serious burns on nearly all of her body. Local media report that she had 85% burns.
...
Nearly 1,100 women were killed in Pakistan last year in so-called honour-killings, the country's independent Human Rights Commission says. Most are by relatives, but a small number carried out by people outside the family are also related to perceived loss of honour, correspondents say. Police said earlier this year that village elders had ordered the murder of a teenage girl because she helped a friend to elope.
Campaigners say most "honour killings" are not reported.
The Council of Islamic Ideology proposed making it legal for husbands to "lightly beat" their wives. Religious groups have equated women's rights campaigns with promotion of obscenity.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36425946

It's not a big deal this is like a one off. I'm sure people will make wild generalisations and drag in a bit of racism to make themselves feel better but ultimately this issue is none of the West's business. Let countries handle their own Human Rights issue. I can't believe that some people are already calling for Western intervention in the form of treaties. Keep your nose out of it more like.
What's more this is not an Islamic issue, it's cultural. Islam has nothing to do with this.
Lots of women die from male violence/abuse in the West but that's not sexy and sensationalist news is it now?

If they are so peaceful how about you go live in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia. See how long you last as a westerner.

Saudi Arabia does't have a rape problem. Are you aware of just how strict and overhanded their sex crime laws are?

https://unitedhumanists.com/2016/04/12/gang-rape-victim-sentenced-to-200-lashes-six-months-in-jail-in-saudi-arabia/

What your link doesn't say (to anyone who is actually following this discussion ) is that the King of Saudi Arabia gave the victims an official pardon and they were not actually lashed or jailed.
In addition the perpetrators of the gang rape were sentenced to 1,000 lashes and imprisonment up to ten years
Nice try but you just proved that Saudi Arabia has strict sexual assault crimes just because they might have sexist laws in place for the victims doesn't negate that.

Why were they sentenced to begin with?

the sentencing is justified and it's clearly written in the link, that is, it is illegal for women to be alone with men who are not related to them. This law was put in place to protect women (and men) from putting themselves in situations which would inspire rape. Before you say victim blaming this is no different to the loud groups that question women about what they were wearing and why they were out so late or why they got into the car with a stranger.

Firstly, women have rights over their own bodies and that includes the right to be alone with whoever they want. You have no right to decide who a woman can spend her time with and you certainly have no right to punish her for it.

Secondly, I like how you avoided talking about how Saudi husbands demand sex from their wives whether the wives want to or not. People like you are the reason millions (billions) of women are abused every day.

If you don't want to follow the particular laws of a country or respect them for that matter, don't live there. I wouldn't bring forbidden animals or any animal in my luggage without declaring it into Australia for example but I would feel horrible about leaving my pets at home. But ultimately the law is the law. And in this case it's their because of religious reasons. In Islam it's illegal for men and women who are not related to be alone and there is nothing wrong with that. I respect people's religious views. I think you should too.

There is a certain expectation to have sex with any marriage regardless of religion/race. Plenty of divorces happen when needs are not being met. In the bible it says that women must submit themselves to their husbands and there is another verse that I cannot recall that supports this idea that women should be prepared to meet their husbands need which includes sex. Like I have been saying since page one this is not a Muslim issue, hell it's not even a Christian or religious issue. Men demand sex from their wives all the time. Women are victimised by men across race, religion and culture. Why are you loath to admit this?
The law about not being alone with strangers of the opposite sex is not sexist because it applies to men as well.

You say that the bible is not law anywhere but the Qu'ran is. I hope you realise that Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state not just in name but in practice too. 99.99% IF not 100% of their citizens are Muslim I don't see the problem with the law reflecting the religion which everyone practices as has been historically the case in the West with Christianity. Who are you defending? The muslim women who actually support the law which you say is sexist? Saudi Arabian women do not need you to cape for them they are happy living under the sharia law which is a part of the religion they practice.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

Question for the other guys out there:

How many of you had an experience in college where a girl was initially pretty unresponsive or even kind of weakly defensive but suddenly really got into it after you made a few moves? I certainly did, and it wasn't a situation where she was blackout drunk. She just ended up in my bed on some pretext (I think her roommate was hooking up with someone, but she had other options besides climbing into a twin bed with a single guy so it seemed pretty clear what her intent was). Her actions after getting in bed left me pretty confused, she was totally unresponsive to kissing and groping but didn't stop me. However, when I did the right thing she was suddenly all over me. I kind of figured out the boundaries through trial and error. On subsequent nights, I kept pushing and they gradually expanded too (lol).

I wasn't some sort of sexual predator, I was just a shy kid. I read the (nonverbal) signals correctly and it worked out, we dated for a few months after that.

While you might think this isn't related to the case, I think it is. The cultural (and maybe biological) necessity for the male to be aggressive and the female to put the brakes on things tends to really effect how these things go. And us males are stupid, we don't read the signs nearly as well as women hope we do. However we do share stories, and a lot of guys encourage their friends to be aggressive too, to make moves. That's when things can go wrong. It's messed up but it's also the reality.

Once you get older though, it all becomes a lot more natural and easier. You understand how to read signals and you learn what boundaries not to cross. Girls are also better at communicating those boundaries once they've had a few experiences themselves.

That's why, when I hear something like this, I think: here's a guy who's gotten the wrong message, but he's young and hasn't figured this whole dating/sex thing out yet. Make sure he knows that what he did is very wrong, punish him, but nothing that will impact his life long term. He deserves the chance to prove whether he's learned from his mistake.

Metzindown #sexist mmo-champion.com

For those who don't remember: The universe is made up of life feeding on life in order to survive. The universe also made a mechanism to determine when a female is able to breed, which is puberty, or the first period for those of you with lesser brains. As far back as humanity had existed we have bred at the age of puberty, which is natural. The social construct which all of you sheep are conditioned to believe as the magical "age of consent" Is a farcical notion that has been put in place to curb the amount of breeding humans do to prevent over population of the planet. It has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with resources. Open your eyes and stop being led by the nose. If one human of mature age (aka puberty) consents to a sexual interaction with another human being of mature age (puberty again) then who are you and to judge them? Inb4 some nutless wonder says "but teens can be manipulated!" An adult man or woman both can be manipulated into sex, it happens every day, especially at bars. so shut the fuck up and accept nature you lemming half wit humans.

Yes and back then men would just "mate" with any female they laid eyes on as well. They also use to crush eachothers skulls with clubs over mates, territory, food, and other shit.

And what exactly does this matter to my argument? People, especially men, still fight over mates. The only difference is that we have a society that it currently on a peak. Take away the electric, coal, gas powered economy and watch as your so called "civilized society" falls right back to instinct. Survival of the fittest. Your life and view point are born of conviniance but take a look at the animal kingdom, that is truly what life is about. Tell me that if your wife, husband, son or daughter was needing food, that you wouldn't kill another human to insure their survival. You are blind because you want to be. This universe is made of suffering, pain and surviving at any cost. Even the planets siphon life from their sun's, the plants the sun, the animals the plants, the animals the animals. Life HAS to consume life in order to live in this universe. So my point still stands, this world and this universe doesn't operate on your morality, it just that humans morality keeps society stable, that is until it over reaches due to emotional issues, such as "I don't want my daughter having sex!" But it's ok if your son has sex before the magical age of consent.

Tonus #fundie mmo-champion.com

stephon Clark, the 22-year-old black man shot and killed by Sacramento police earlier this month, was shot eight times, at least six in the back, an independent autopsy commissioned by Clark's family found.

Family lawyer Benjamin Crump said the findings of the family's autopsy contradict the narrative put forth by the Sacramento Police Department.

The results were released at a Friday news conference by forensic pathologist Dr. Bennet Omalu, who conducted the autopsy.

The first wound was to Clark's side, which led Omalu to conclude Clark was facing the house when he was first shot. Six other shots hit him from behind and one in the thigh. The Sacramento Police Department has said Clark was shot at 20 times.

He did not deserve to die.

But...

He was wandering around destroying property (damaged several vehicles and police witnessed him shatter a glass door).
He ran when the police confronted him.
He did have an object in his hand (confirmed by the video - they run up to him and the cell phone is on the ground).
We live in a society where it is very easy to have access to guns - and he lived in a area with a lot of violent crime.
Like so many young men, he was raised in a broken home with no father and had a criminal record already. He also had two children with a woman he wasn't married to and had just gotten out of jail a month ago.

This is one of those bad outcomes that occurs from things in our society that are broken. I do not believe it is fair to put it all on the cops.


So if they muted their cameras thought they fucked up and then decided "we need to get our cover story right" you wouldn't care about that?

I would care about that. But I also believe that an officer who is acting in total good faith but has just done something that he realized might get himself put in jail, might want to have an off the record conversation.

The video doesn't really show what happened, except it does clearly show that there was a cell phone under him on the ground, indicating that there was an object in his hand.

It also shows cops who are afraid to approach him after many shots were fired, checking each other to see if they were hit, etc. Acting totally in accordance with how they should act if he had a gun.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post

Those trespassing death sentence, in your own backyard no less. You guys really need to review how you train your cops lmao. Why do cop over here not shoot people randomly in their home like this.

Where do you live?

scarletlion #fundie mmo-champion.com

on having a gay child


Son is a boy. Daughter is a girl. No need to change the roles. I would be terrified but unlike some people i wouldn't "slap the shit" out of my kid because it wouldn't fix anything. But on the other hand i wouldn't support them either. I would let them know i am disappointed. And maybe cut off my bounds. If they wanna live like that and insist on it then they wont have my support about anything, they are on their own.
Also adopted kid is not your own kid. It's like owning a pet from animal shelter. You are not his\her mother or father and you didn't give birth. So You can try to act like it but the fact is there.

sliske , blackblade,puck #fundie mmo-champion.com

Judge grants convicted pedophile ex-husband sole custody of his daughter

Feel free to question why this Judge is still in the job
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments
http://kfor.com/2013/06/25/convicted...-old-daughter/
http://www.klewtv.com/news/national/...?tab=video&c=y

Ms Coomer pointed out that because Elizondo is a registered sex offender, he will be unable to carry out many parental duties
'He can`t take her to Chuck E. Cheese. He can`t take her to a park,' she said. 'He can`t go to her school. He`s not allowed in school.'

The thought of this child being stuck in the house with him is truly frightening. But it does beg the question how bad is the mother?? the article sort of eludes to the reason why the judge awarded the father sole custody but their HAS TO BE more to the story.to the reason why the judge awarded the father sole custody but their HAS TO BE more to the story.

(sliske)

Well if you look at it logically then any gay brother you have or even any straight sister mum or dad could be frightening too. I'm a straight guy who likes older women, i don't think my mum feels in danger of me suddenly raping her or even hinting that i fancy her for multiple reasons

1. I don't
2. Pedophile / Bisexual / Homosexual / Whateversexual doesn't equal automatic incest condoning.

Not to be a pedophile sympathizer but at the end of the day they're just people who are attracted to a certain thing purely because of the way their body developed. They shouldn't be treated as incestious just for that reason alone.

Edit: of course if you do the actual act of having sex with a minor its still a pretty horrible thing, but being a pedophile in itself shouldn't automatically make you a lesser human being in regards to your children.

There's a pretty big difference there. He was convicted of molesting a 6 year old, he specifically targeted a helpless victim. If your gay brother was raping men, you bet your ass you'd be afraid of him.

I wouldn't. I don't assume rapist = incest condoning
What i'm saying is just because he molested someone, doesn't mean his standards are completely gone. For example i rape Cheryl Cole, that doesn't mean i'm going to go and rape an old man too.

And I think it's a far cry more likely that a person who molests a child is likely to do so again even if the child is related to them.

I wasn't wieghing it i was just using it as an example in itself. But thats not the point. The guy on the previous page said it better than i could. I'm terrible at explaining my point. In a nut shell i don't believe that being a child molester makes you have no bounderies. I believe even a rapist has standards or even a child molester has standards. I don't believe he would do that to his family


(blackblade)
Even criminals have rights, people.

Yeah, he's done some terrible shit. That doesn't give you the right to shit on him, nor deny him his family. If he was dangerous, he'd still be in jail.

This is simply a trick by the media to generate hits. Unless he's had a history of molesting his own children, it's a non-issue.

(puck)
I don't see the problem. Pedophile does not mean he would be prone to a relationship with his own daughter

Underverse #fundie mmo-champion.com

Trauma is what you make of it, in most cases. In our culture of hyper-victimization, the trauma is many times worse than it would be in a culture that promotes having the strength to simply overcome adversity.

Rape itself - in most cases - is not nearly as traumatic as many, many other crimes. It's basically just sex that you don't want to have. Really, it's far from the worst that can happen to you. But we've made it into something different - something much worse than it actually is. That's the real 'rape culture' - this perpetuation of self-victimization and appeals to authority.

Of course there are many different types of rape. Some are worse than others. Violent, damaging rape is much worse than simple forced penetration. We treat them the same, we treat all of them as though they're the worst thing that could happen. It's insulting to victims of the most destructive rapes, and it's a destructive ideology itself.

Nerevar #fundie mmo-champion.com

Meh, I say do not meddle in other peoples culture/religion. What is right and what is wrong - are purely subjective things.

Generally, I agree. But a 15 year old girl being raped and abused, and then being whipped for it is not right in any form of society. Just try to imagine the horrific situation she is in.

That's the thing. Someone decided the morality norm of a society that everyone is supposed to follow. But why is everyone supposed to follow it? Sure, I understand that that girl pretty much experienced "hell", but in these kind of stories I really dislike those who try to force their beliefs and views on things towards other cultures, religions, people etc. Thinking that they are much better than the next person. But why? What makes them better? Only their subjective standing point. And since we ourselves decide what is good and what is bad - it's really impossible to say who is right and who is wrong. So I really see no point in judging, and especially trying to change people in such situations

Xaelai #fundie mmo-champion.com

Woman steps outside in alluring clothing that shows off half of her body and gets men to drool over her, and then gets raped... uh, yes, she contributed to the rape. Maybe if she hadn't been doing her best to try and get men to look at her and sexually desire her, then maybe she wouldn't have contributed a rapist being pushed over the edge?

Just like the rich guy walking down a ghetto street at night example contributed to the mugging by flaunting his wealth in the poor part of town with no protection or common sense.

Alturic #fundie mmo-champion.com


I'm not trying to downplay HIV/AIDs in the slightest but do you think that if I gave someone my pneumonia they should be able to sue me? How about if they died from it, should I get charged pressed against me? How about MERs? I mean, sure HIV/AIDs required (if I'm not mistaken, at this point in time) lifetime medication usage but... it's just so odd to me that it's treated (criminally at least) with such extremes.

Should someone be able to sue me for giving it to them? Meh, people sue people over stupid shit all the time, so something like this sure... but to think that I should be jailed over it, somewhat extreme.

[ If you can control the spread of a disease (which is difficult with MERS and pnemonia which is why its not the same) but purposely dont do that, yes you should be prosecuted. ]

Gotta be honest, never understood claims like that. It's easy as hell to control the spread of diseases/germs/colds. Don't go out until you're over it? Wear a mask, equiv to a condom?

Xaelai #sexist mmo-champion.com

Woman wears clothing that invites men to look at her in a sexual way.
Woman struts her stuff to show off her body in an area that's not so safe.
Woman gets raped.

Sure, the guy is definitely at fault, but sometimes it takes two to make something happen. Maybe if women would dress a bit more conservatively, maybe if women wouldn't be showing off their body so much, maybe if women would watch what they're doing at parties and such, we'd see a lot less rapes.

Do you walk down the streets of the ghettos at night wearing an armani suit, and carrying a briefcase full of cash? Of course not. That'd be inviting a mugger to rob you blind. Do you park a Lamborghini and leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition in some dark parking lot at night? I would hope not.

So why on Earth would you want to wear skimpy clothing that invites men to lust over your body and then strut your stuff at some party where someone can drug you or grab you and make off with you and take what they want?

Doesn't matter if it is a robbery, rape, murder, there's the person who commits the crime... and then there's the person who the crime is committed against.

If the latter invites the former by being an easy target, or an attractive target, then the latter is partially contributing to the crime. Everybody has a responsibility to act maturely and in such a way that they are protecting themselves from such crime. Sometimes crime happens anyways even if you do take all the precautionary measures, but if you do something absolutely stupid and you become the victim of a crime... then yes, you're partially to blame for it.

"A woman shouldn't have to change her clothing because of lustful men!"

Ok, are you also saying that a rich man shouldn't have to change out of his armani suit before walking down the streets in a ghetto at night? lol.

Everybody is responsible for their own personal safety. This includes women and skimpy clothing. There's no reason to wear skimpy clothing other than to get men to lust after them. Is it really THAT big of a surprise when a woman who was wearing that trashy clothing gets raped? Now, obviously, if a woman was not wearing trashy clothing and still got raped... then no, she's not at fault (unless she did something else stupid, like drinking at a party or something) at all.

You can't just disregard personal safety and expect the rest of the world to conform to you. No, you must conform to it. If personal safety means not going down the ghetto streets at night wearing rich clothing and carrying money, then yes... that means you either have to not carry the money, not wear such rich-looking clothing, or take the long way to avoid the ghetto street. If you're a woman wanting to avoid being raped, then yes... you should not be wearing skimpy clothing and perhaps you should be avoiding parties and drinking. Perhaps if the woman in question weren't wearing trashy clothing, men might have a little more respect for her, eh?

Hyve #fundie mmo-champion.com

Lets take a look at the Jimmy Saville case. Many of the people complaining about him, were 15 - 18 years old at the time, which back in his day, when everyone was sleeping with anyone, it was perfectly acceptable. You ask any rich man who lived through the 60's -> 80's, everyone was sleeping with everyone, and everyone wanted to!

There wasn't much abuse, there wasn't much neglect. It was all just free loving. Yet, here we are today, screaming about a dead man who fucked a 17 year old who at the time, wanted to sleep with him, because who didn't want to sleep with Jimmy back then!

templar 331 #fundie mmo-champion.com

Women who put themselves into situations while not caring about the consequences have themselves partly to blame. This "don't blame the victim" BS is retarded. Yes he did rape you, but you leading him on into a situation where you think you are in control and then it turns out you aren't is partly your fault. If you don't want it to begin with stop it before it starts, not halfway through.


How can a woman spot if the guy is a rapist or not before anything happens? It's not like women choose not have sex just to be annoying. Maybe she started to feel uncomfortable or the guy started to act differently. Normal woman would first assume that the guy will stop like any other normal guy. Her actions partly leaded to that situation but rape is always the rapist's fault. Blaming victim is a bad thing.

how could he know that she didn't want sex when she took her cloths off and got into bed with him..........

Yes a man who forces sex is a rapist, but the blame partly falls on her for consenting to the situation. She consented up until the act was being committed. At that point she has every right to stop, but if he doesn't then she put herself into that situation where she's in bed with a rapist. Sad as it is she is partly to blame for her actions. Had she had not agreed to that point she wouldn't be there.

Like I said, I don't condone rapists but people are responsible for their actions.

Ol Scratch #sexist mmo-champion.com

. It's no different than leaving your car running and the door wide open when you run in to a store to buy something and then having your car stolen. It's no different than walking down the streets of a bad part of town flapping about a huge stack of cash in both hands and then getting mugged. etc.

Does this excuse having your car stolen or you being mugged? Nope. Do you deserve so much as an ounce of sympathy for having your car stolen or being mugged? Nope.

Same thing applies to women who go around dressing and acting slutty. If they end up getting raped, it's not going to be a surprise to anyone, and they are partially to blame. Does that mean the rape is any less serious or should be any less punished? Nope. Does she deserve much sympathy for setting herself up to be victimized by anyone outside her immediate circle? Nope.
You're not free to do anything you want, and being a fucking cocktease to everyone you meet is just as bad as leaving your car running when you go into a store or flash your cash in a dark alley in the bad part of town.

wowaccounttom #fundie mmo-champion.com

[on a teen molesting his prepubescent siblings,]

yeah.... but were they all girls???? if so, then its okay...

the guy was a minor back then as well.... in a house filled with girls, it was bound to happen...

kids explore their sexuality all the time... or they used to anyways... you know.. before technology locked every single kid in their own rooms as they chat, tweet, and play games from phones, pcs, etc...

Ol scratch #sexist mmo-champion.com

You're absolutely right, it is completely unreasonable to put up defenses against most cases of rape. But does that mean it's pointless to try and safeguard against the others?

It's pretty much impossible to do, unless you want to distrust just about any man.

Yeah, because all men are evil rapists just biding their time. Nailed it.

Sorry, but if you want to dramatically lower your chances of getting raped, don't dress like a slut, don't get drunk around complete and utter strangers, and don't go wandering off into quiet little areas with people you don't trust especially in a situation that is otherwise rapey. Guess what! Do those things and chances are you'll be a genuine outlier if and when you do get raped, and in those cases, you will not only get, but deserve, any and all sympathy others have to offer.

It's all about not being a completely and utter moron. That's not "slut shaming" or "victim blaming," it's "quite being a fucktard"ing. Want to drastically lower the chances of having your car stolen? Well don't leave it idling with the door wide open when you run into a store, especially in a neighborhood known for its criminal element. That kind of logic is exactly the same sentiment behind the "don't dress like a slut, dumbass" statements.

Does it mean having your car stolen or being raped isn't still a horrible thing to have happen to you? Nope. Does it mean the criminal doesn't deserve to be prosecuted under the full weight of the law? Nope. However, and most importantly: Does it mean you deserve any sympathy for all but inviting someone to victimize you? Nope. Just like the guy who left his car idling.

Sure, you can do whatever you want. It's your body/your car. But don't expect anyone to feel bad for you when you do something stupid with it, not because you deserve it, but because you shouldn't have been such a fucking moron in the first place.

Underverse #fundie mmo-champion.com

So, would you bang your 7yo daugher, if she agreed with it? And there were no laws against it?

Probably not, because of genetic relation. But I would allow someone else to, if I grew up with them, knew that they were benevolent, understood their persona, experiences, and personality.

Wowaccounttom #fundie mmo-champion.com

If they said no, no is no. That is all there is to that. It doesn't matter if it's enjoyed because it's completely biological.

Saying no is most likely rather pointless if the girl is moaning or showing physical signs of enjoyment. The campus offers escorts at night for anyone and during the day it is just a matter of either being with other people or making sure you are in a rather public place (even if it means taking an extra 5-10-15 minutes to get to class)...

Some women are to be partially blamed for this. They know the area, they know what happens, and yet they choose to dress up in provocative outfits..

I also wonder what the % of hispanic people that got raped are... based on a paper I read a while ago, hispanic women tend to keep such matters private even if it occurs to them several times.