A boy who disgusts his reproductive organs and wish he had a females body (or even acts like a female) is gay in my books. Vise versa for females. I know what homosexual is.

(Homosexuality is in fact, natural)

Irrelevant. What occurs in nature is not the definition used to define what is natural for humans. We mean what is natural for humans is what is good and productive for humans. What animals do is irrelevant, since animals do many sick and barbaric things as well. Therefore, homosexuality is not natural for humans.

Atheist ideology is a ideology of fear and denial. They hide behind their pathetic science and empty logic and ignore the true power behind the universe. It’s really sad because they are so arrogant and have absolutely no reason to be. All I have to say is this either you bow now or you bow later but you will bow. Homosexuality is considered a form of sodomy or unnatural sex. That means that if you support homosexuality you also support beastiality. Man was never meant to love other men.

Well, Mr. Atheist, you've got me cornered. I'll admit that. I do not, however, admit defeat. The fact that I am aware and I can imagine is proof enough that there is a God. As J. R. R. Tolkien said, the imagination brings one closer to the Divine.

As for the wolf-kid, there was another incident like that in France. A boy lived in the woods for 13 or so years and was finally found. They taught him social things and manners, but he never fully became a "regular person". I think he died around 20. This proves that man needed an intelligent source to learn from. That is, God. [...]

I think your "extrapolation" for the non-existence of God is more ludicrous.

Well I believe in a god, but lets say your friend was right, or Atheist are right, and religion is only something to comfort us when we die. That must make Atheist, real assholes, alot of atheists like to convert believers and diss religion ect.. so that just means they don't want you to feel good about dieing they want you to suffer, so if your friend is right then that must make atheists fucking pricks.

Specifically, as these doctors were not willing to help the homosexual become pregnant (not just refusing to treat her in general), and modern research would justify them on this issue on multiple fronts.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2004/apr/040428c.html
Again, while I am against homosexuality primarily based on valid religious reasons, I'm not advocating homophobia like you were spewing earlier. I'm simply saying that these doctors shouldn't be forced by law to do something when that something has so much going against it. The fact that you can't understand the difference is due to your social stigma, not mine. I only made this post as a last attempt to get you to see reason here, but if your previous posts are any indication it's a wasted effort. Go ahead and get in the last word, because I'm not going to respond to you anymore.

I don't understand why lots of people nowadays like mocking Jesus..

Listen..

Jesus was born before us more than 2000 years ago.

We never see Jesus, or even know him personally but we heard his existence from the bible and Jews' history.

But what is the benefit for us if we're mocking him because we do not accept his teaching?

God never pushes you to believe him, he gives you free will.
When some true christians or pastors commit sins, it's not always God's fault! Pastors/Christians are humans, they can make a mistake.

Satan influences a lot of people from believing God, Satan knows jesus more than us, he was ex-angel before the fallen, I know why some of us don't believe in supernatural things because we cannot see the spirits around us and we trap in physical body.

Also remember life is very short, someday we will see the real Jesus.

We Know God Exists because:
1. the universe could not always have been here, nor could it have made itself from nothing [...]
3. consciousness, that is, self-awareness is non-physical and could not arise from atoms and molecules [...]
5. the laws of physics cannot account for broad and extraordinary features of the solar system [...]
7. human behavior indicates the existence of the soul and spirit and the real existence of ideas indicate the existence of a non-physical reality
8. higher biological functions like sight, flight, and echo-location are so wildly and irreducibly complex they could not evolve in stages
9. apart from the existence of God, logic and reason have no foundation, and thus leading atheists deny the objective nature of the laws of logic
10. God has revealed Himself uniquely in the Bible and confirmed its claims through scientific statements, prophecies, and many other wonderful proofs that God became flesh in Jesus Christ, who was crucified by Pontius Pilate, and rose from the dead on the third day, according to the Scriptures, and that those who trust in Him will have everlasting life.

Cheers to the existance of God!

What say ye?

(Actually homosexuality does catch on, check out the Romans for instance. It was literally culturally expected that men had several lovers; wives were almost strictly there to make babies and carry on the name.)

However I will list some other societies:

The Greeks
Sodom and Gomorah
Ancient India
The American Indians
(For more feel free to google it.)

History proves the moral degredation that occurs from it and furthur destroys the argument of "oh, it'll never catch on".
By the way, I asked whether or not people on the opposition were actually concerned with the catching on thing and I recieved the response I thought I would. Basically, they don't care if it catches on or not. Well, my point is that history does destroy any argument stating that homosexuality when permitted does catch on and history furthur destroys any argument stating the homosexuality doesn't degredate society. (Again, research it if you don't believe me)

[Regarding someone who supposedly discovered Noah's Ark]

It would be very, very, intresting if that is the real thing, but atheists will always deny what dosn't match exactly to their beliefs.

(By destroying these social barriers that create hate, discrimination, and violence we help make the world a more peaceful place)

I argue that legalization would promote hate, discrimination, and violence against homosexuals. There would be lynch mobs if such a thing were legalized.

(You would preach intolerance of a group of people and how they wish to live and believe that this helps society when history has shown the opposite.)

History has shown that homosexuality destroys civilizations, such as ancient Greece and Rome. The Netherlands and Scandinavia are also starting to feel the negative affects of promoting same-sex marriage and homosexual.

I'm really happy with the homosexual laws in middle east right now. No rights and if any homosexual act is witness, prison. I love them. I hope it's spread.

Actually not only Christians and Homosexuals. I would definitly add Islam in there for they despise homosexuality more than Christians and will always despise it. In many Islamic countries, you can go to jail for performing Homosexual acts and in some of the extreme countries, maybe even death. The homosexuality act and marriage should be completely destroyed and removed from our society. It’s actually pathetic that it is still around.

(To a gay male poster)

Are all homos as stupid as you? Actions arnt a bad thing? Use more logic in that and point out what actions you are refering too because you can't possibly mean all actions but I'm assuming that your brain capacity does not exceed a gr.2 so it can be possible for you to say that. Apparently 3.9 billion people care about what my god says. ( I am refering to Christianity, Islam and Judasm combined)

Listen kid, go get some education and then come debate with me because debating on your level will be both a waste of time for me and you and Im sure you don't want to waste your time because there is alot of little boys for you to bang on.

(were you ever to meet a gay man and not run away you might find they're normal people like you meet everday and not intent on raping you with a piece of pipe and corn.)

I have friends who are homosexual and I know that they are normal in every other respect. They also keep their private lives to themselves and don't talk to me about what they do in the privacy of their own homes. They also acknowledge the fact that being gay is a CHOICE for them. They also show disgust at idiots that think they are arguing on their behalf when in reality they don't want same-sex marriage to be legal. They think marriage is a one man one woman union and should stay that way.

However, I am not against homosexuals. I am against same-sex marriage. Big difference. If I were against homosexuals, then I would not be considered their friend. I am against homosexuality as a deathstyle, and it is because I care about the PEOPLE who are trapped in that deathstyle. You just don't get it. You have been brainwashed to think that Christians hate people who are not like them. That is completely wrong. We have compassion for them and we try to help them. I try to witness to my friends so that they can get out of the deathstyle known as homosexuality. People like you oppress homosexual people.

Think about it. Which side tells gay people that they cannot make the choice to change, and that they have no power to change what they were born as? Your side. Which side tells them that they have free will and can choose to be whatever they want to be in life? My side. We are the ones that tell them that they can better themselves and live normal lives. You people are the ones trying to make it so they don't even try to change. You are the ones trying to take their hope away. You are the ones encouraging them to live in an unnatural and perverted deathstyle that produces no children and carries a high risk of viral infection and emotional problems. You're the oppressors, not us. You are the homophobes, because you are the ones that hate people enough to tell them that they were born gay and they cannot change no matter how hard they try.

homosexuality has been considered as a mental problem,the love that they are sharing is only lust,and their relationships will not last long.

[How exactly does gay marriage harm heterosexual rights]

I do think though that before I go I need to make one thing clear: defining marriage as being between a man and a woman only does not force gays to not be gay as I have heard many liberals say. It merely states that we are not obligated to recognise it. To be honest, the only forceful thing is that those who oppose it are being trying to be forced by law to recognise it. That's what would happen wouldn't it. We would have no legal choice correct. Isn't that a volation of my rights. Well, I digress.

[It's only going to become a child after nine months of pregnancy and birth.]

No, it becomes a person right at conception. Think about it. The egg inside the mother will just sit and do nothing if left alone. Nothing changes about it, it doesn't grow, it doesn't develop, etc. The moment it is fertilized something wonderful happens, then the growth, the development and all the other wonders of life start to happen. "Oh, it's just a clump of cells" doesn't work. A clump of cells that isn't alive won't do anything. The fact that the embryo is growing and developing proves it is alive.

Concerning stem cell research, the embryo should not have been taken out in the first place because the moment it was removed that little child was sentenced to death. I think it would be best now to treat them as any other human and give them a proper burial as much as possible.

I wont donate my organs unless theres a really really special reason.

Im not anymore religious then the next guy, but theres a take on this from the quran. What it says basically is Allah/God owns you, ur his slave. Your body is a lease, you dont own it, it doesnt belong to you. Its just something to connect your soul from the spiritual world to the physical world. As with everything else, if somebody lends you something, you dont F it up then give it back.

I wouldnt expect anybody to donate for me either. I think id rather die.

[Ever the bigot, Believe It! comments on same-sex love]

But that is what I mean. Love can be shared between anyone, regardless of gender, age, race, religion, etc. However, love is caring for others and wanting to help them and be there for them. Love is laying down your life for someone.

But when that love crosses the line into romantic, physical, or sexual love, that is when same-sex relationships become wrong. And that kind of love is more like lust because the genders are incompatible with their own kind in these ways. That should not be the basis for marriage either.

[Slightly old, but, still amusing. Hadn't read it out fully]
No I do not believe that evolution exists on the small scale. Adaptation exists, but that is not evolution. “Evolution” denotes progress, which if you believe that happens in nature then you're flat out wrong. Things can go forward or backward. The problem with evolution is that it requires some all knowing force behind it to make everything advance. If this were all left up to random occurrence or chance, then things would not be this perfect and balanced. Things would die out and take other things with them. Plus, even if you were right, it would only prove that one species can better itself to become a stronger form of the same species, not that the species turns into another one, or splits off into five different species that begin to evolve.

[On George Carlin]

That's too bad. I'm sorry to hear that he DIED. But ya know, I think he's down there right now, screaming up at us. He was funny when he wasn't bashing God, the Bible or Christianity. In accordance with his wishes, I will NOT keep him in my thoughts.

[In response to "why do you [Muslims] stone your people and treat so bad your women?"]

We do not stone people off the street to fulfill our monthly moon ritual. We stone them because of something they have committed themselves. The religion plainly says :don't do this or you will be stoned. If you want to be part of the religion, you must abode by the rules.

As for the treating women badly: You cannot judge. You are not a woman living under those rules. If you were, then you can say that they are treated bad.

I understand why a man would be attracted to another man and why a woman would be attracted to another woman. It is the same reason why an adult would be attracted to a child. The reason is because it's messed up and perverted. Some people get off on doing or thinking about perverted things.

Atheism will always fall before Religion. All Atheist know this just as all christians should. Faith, Religion and our belief in God gives us the ability to reconcile the logical with the illogical. What you Atheist call illogical, we christians see as more than logical. What you Atheist see as impossible, we christians see as to simple. The enemy of logic is strong faith. A unshakable faith that lends a open ear to others arguments but does not shake the foundation of faith. This is how Atheism is beaten. God is coming and I want you to quote me on that. You atheist are being given too many chances and you know what I am going to keep trying. Because I love you all and I want you all to be happy. I want you all to know the happiness of Christ and to embrace you all in christian brotherhood. It hurts me that our beliefs have created a schism that only seems to further seperate us. I don't see you as my enemy and I mean it. You are not my enemy only your ideologies.

(Evolution as a theory is not proven and I'll agree, but none the less it is a theory developed through scientific observations. There was nothing scientific about the development of creationalism or genesis.)

Actually that's untrue. Creation is a very viable scientific viewpoint, but the only problem is that it is a miraculous event and therefore those who debate it scientifically have to not only support it through the science of a young earth but also combat the theories to the contrary.

(So again when you debate this we are debating why we would teach evolution over creationalism in science class.)

I don't think you should because evolution is no more defensible from the evidence than you accuse creationism to be, especially when you combine it with atheism. If you are an atheist evolutionist explain the creation of the first cell? As an evolutionist explain how mutations lead towards dramatic changes?

Intelligent design explains things as they are. Species were created for the enviornments they now exist in and genetic variation creates a specialization within kinds that further specializes a species. Therefore mutations have limits and cannot transcend the type of animal they were begun in as indicated by the famous genetic experiment involving fruitflies.

Reduction of rape? Not bloody likely, considering all the "it's never the woman's fault" rhetoric thrown around all the date-rape shit I've been forced to attend as an 18-year old male. The best way to reduce rape is for women not to go out with the intention of getting hammered, and not to tease the single most poweful desire in impaired males. However ethically nice it may seem to create a sacrosanct right to get smashed and play with men's desires, it's doing a generation of young girls a disservice to tell them that such behaviors shouldn't increase their risk of getting raped, because they do increase the risk. When self-righteous women's rights rhetoric turns into bad advice, that's when it pisses me off.

[On a girl that was jailed with and raped by multiple men. Note: this portion of the post is colored white to make it less visible, just highlight it.]

This is why it tells us in the Bible to protect women and to keep them under guidance. This kind of thing is liable to happen if we get too femenistic.

(After a host of legal arguments claming that "Massachusetts judges violated the state constitution in legalizing gay marriage)

And there is the irrefutable argument! According to the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the Supreme Court had NO authority in making a ruling over a marriage issue, and they CERTAINLY had no authority in legalizing same-sex marriage! They are fascists through and through. I suspect they were bought by the gay mafia. In fact, I am sure they were, since the lawsuit was filed by several gay couples who wanted to get married and carried out by, that's right, GLAAD!!!

President Bush should have launched an investigation, and taken action to prevent the high appeals court from blocking the appeal to take it to the Supreme Court. He also should have sent the IRS to breath down the necks of those four prostitutes in the Supreme Court and audit them to see if there were any large sums of money that could not be accounted for. Believe it!

(Yet another fundie opposed to embryonic stemcell research)

you claim an embryo is nothing but a clump of cells grouped together, well look down at yourself thats all you are as well albeit you are several trillion cells but its the same its just as human in when the sperm and egg join as it is when it is born and grows into an adult. and once they start sanctioning it to be okay with embryos then whats to stop them from going further, it would be slow and may not happen but once people got used to embryos being killed as acceptable then the next step wouldnt seem so bad just like embryos dont seem so bad to some people now, i could give u some more evidence but its late and i just got home from work and am not thinking to clearly right now

Paedophiles can't help being attracted to children and many avoid sexual contact with them altogether. Those who have sex with a child after the child gives consent are not acting immorally. As a libertarian, I believe that free will is the most important factor of morality. Those who say that paedophilia is wrong without having any idea why they think that, other than because they have been taught to think it by society, are usually very ignorant and closed-minded individuals.

["Your god does have many things in common with the Nazis, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not."]

NAZI - Hitler wanted a master race and wanted to create a German empire that would rule Europe. The master race was made of blond, blue-eyed, Germans and all other were considered inferior including ones with disabilities, other ethnic backgrounds, and the Jews.
God - God had a chosen people that founded the nation of Israel. He sent down His Son that started the conversion of the gentiles (non-Jews). God welcomes all peoples into His Kingdom no matter what race, culture, background, disability, or anything else that sets peoples apart.

NAZI - Hitler built concentration camps where they experimented on, burnt, starved, shot, and gased innocent Jews and other peoples considered inferior. They had done no wrong and the countries of the world went to war with Germany.
God - Ordered the Israelites to wage war on peoples He was angry at for commiting ugly sins. These peoples also wanted to destroy the Israelites and corrupt them with their sinful ways.

[Wow. Just wow. Lie for Jesus Award?]
Fossilized human footprints beside fossilized dinosaur footprints have been rejected at first glance by scientists already. They have made it clear that any evidence that may prove them wrong is not to be considered by anyone. There just is no convincing them. Dinosaur bones are also rejected by all radiocarbon dating testers out of hand simply because they don't think there can be any C-14 in them. So to get them tested scientists had to lie and say they were chicken bones or something. When the bones were tested it showed that they dated back to only about 5,000 to 6,000 years. Which matches the Bible, which documents the existence of dinosaurs.

Abortion is nothing but a modern day holocaust. Abortion is killing, no matter what nice name you give it. In no way can abortion be justified ever, if the woman is raped, give the child up for adoption. If the child is diseased, at least let it live for the time it can, God has a plan for every living being. It's dumbasses like people in congress who think they are better than God that are killing an entire generation.

Are we any better than Hitler?

Poster's signature:

How to trap an atheist: Serve him a fine meal, then ask him if he believes there is a cook.

I would not want that kind of life for my kid or anyone else's.

The hatred people feel towards gays is nothing. Gay people don't have it harder than anyone else.

People who are gay can help it and it is in their power to control what they are attracted to and how they act.

People are going to be mean to my kids even if they are straight. People stink. There is nothing anyone can do about mean people.

If my kid choses to be homosexual, I would rather him or her repent and seek God's help in order to act normally as heterosexuals. I would also be involved in saving my child from the homosexual deathstyle. However, none of my kids will ever be gay, because I will raise them correctly. Believe it!

Slavery. African Americans benifited from this, greater society did not. The southern economy was devistated for years and years afterwards. Not to mention the thousands of people who died in the civil war which was, in part, a result of trying to make slavery illegal. It was a good thing that we ended slavery, but it was not good for the society. According to what you are saying, we shouldnt have ended slavery.

(Conservative Christians hold most of the blame for the GLBT suicide rate.)

WRONG! It's actually homophobes like YOU that are to blame for gay people killing themselves. Why, if it weren't for homophobes like you, people who are gay would come to realize that they are in control of their own lives and have the ability to change if they put forth the effort. But no, people like you brainwash them and keep them stupid. You keep them decieved and make them think that they can't change no matter how hard they want to and no matter how hard they try.

You keep them enslaved to a sinful, dangerous, and depressing deathstyle! You are the homophobes, not the Christians. We are the only ones looking out for their wellbeing and their lives!

Hmmm lots of people call me "close minded" for being racist. But I have good reasons for it. To the general public racism is regarded as close minded, and usually White-Racists are stereotyped as uneducated, redneck morons. Being close minded refers to the inability to accept change; to "think outside of the box" so to speak... and yet society detests racism and it's generally accepted that racism is evil. Therefore if you think outside the box you would be "open minded" and thus if you are racist you "think outside the box" and therefore you are open minded. I am not "racist" really just racially aware, but think about it: the reason racism is detested is because society thinks so, and thus people who believe we are all equal are the ones who are not looking for an alternative idea, and therefore they are more close minded than Racists.

(Oh look. Someone bringing pedophiles into a discussion about gays. How predictable.)

Why? As far as i see, it fits most of your reasons for allowing Homosexuality, as long as the child is willing.

['The biblical god is depicted as a genocidal maniac, killing children and babies who were 'wicked' according to him.']

The thing is, our God is a just God, one that cannot allow sin. The people he destroyed in the flood were Murderers, Rapists, Scoffers, and many others. That world was destroyed because of their disobedience to God, and this one will soon end as well, because of the state of it.

Before you decide to call my God a killer, why don't you consider that you wouldn't even exist if it weren't for him.

(Evolution is scientific FACT.)

if that is so, how come, monkeys at the zoo dont turn to humans randomly?
or how about their offspring?

(For the record, have you read Hume's The Natural History of Religion?

Also, baconbits, since you seem to be a proponent of treating creationism as an equally viable scientific theory, can you please formulate it using scientific terms? As in, what happened, how, and when? Because the vague notion of "All life has been created by an intelligent designer." isn't going to cut it.
As it stands now, there's nothing to debate here.)

You're asking me to summerize creationists tenets when evolution doesn't even have to do the same. In a nut shell creationism means that an intellgent designer created organisms for the pacific niche they now fill. I'm not going to specify any further than that when speaking for all creationists because I can't.

There are many variations of creationism just as there are many variations of evolution. There are evolutionists who believe God created the first cell because they know how implausible it is for a cell to simply have formed by itself. There are others who believe that an animal cell was formed first, while some believe the plant cell was first. Some postulate that dinosaurs were the precursor to birds while others believe differently. There are some who believe in puncuated equilibrium, some believe humans evolved from an aquatic ape, and etc. There is no summation of evolution other than the fact that it is the theory that species gradually changed to become the creatures that inhabit the earth now.

So don't expect me to do what evolutionists themselves don't have to do. You look at me and through you bias assume I'm ignorant and impose additional verification on my views that you don't on your own. If you really want to debate this than pose a logical challenge and not a flailing accusation.

Once again, I would think a 22 year old to show more maturity and better debate skills. Only Christianity considers Christianity to be the One, True Religion because it IS. Give me excerpts from other books claiming themselves to be the one, true religion.

[Quoted Post: "I am athiest that is crap. "virgins can't get pregnant". I lol at you for this one. if virgins can't get pregnant then there would be no humans on earth. and a world wide flood? polar icecaps melt and the only thing left above water is the peak of mount everest or something."]

THEY CAN IF GOD REAWAKENS THE MALE ORGANS INSIDE A WOMEN LIKE MARY
see every man and woman have both organs the natural occurance is one shrivels .in one family in peru the girls who were meant to be boys dropped their male organs about 10-12 because they have a faulty gene .that usually is in early stages of pregnancy

but what i am talking about is supernatural event when god cause mary's sperm to impregnate her

you see there is a phrophecy that the seed [sperm] of the woman would chrush the head of the serpant [satan]. that seed would be the christ. you have to remember who you are dealing with here.it wouldnt be that hard for god to do.funny after all this time with all the sinical remarks science makes the possibility fathomable. just last year House the tv show did 2-3 shows on this .
how did a preacher preach on the verse that the angel would make it so all the world could see for three straight days the bodys of the two witnesses killed by anti christ before they arose. well satalites and cnn will cover that all three days when those pains are killed. how would a back woods preacher teach that in 1810. why would any one believe that.you'de have to be an idiot lol

when you are dealing with kohono you need to adjust your reality
when its heaven you might concider alot of leiway concidering the power source

Its my opinion that civilian deaths are irrevelent. Once you have committed to commencing military action you have resigned yourself to the conclusion that violence is the answer, that there will be killing, and that you will attempt to use your violence in such a manner as to inflict it disproportionately on the other side. If you haven't reached that conclusion why go to war?

In the same vein of thought, I think its foolish to judge whether you should engage or disengage a war do to casaulty numbers. Once you have committed to going to war, you have resigned yourself to the fact that you will sustain some casaulties. So why even judge what you will do according to such an arbitrary number as civilian deaths or military casaulties?

In my mind going to war is a serious decision, that once reached, is not the realm where shakiness and double-minded wavering can exist. Once you go to war you must achieve your objectives or submit to failure.

Thats like saying necrophilia is ok. Ur saying that once somebody is dead their body is free game, because you dont believe you need your body after death. You are trying to establish your beliefs as the standard, but then saying our beliefs cause suffering.

At least im not so selfish to have someone trade their salvation so i can live some more years.

Going by that argument though, wouldn't it be more logical to kill the mother, who has now put both her's and her childs life in danger of being horrible and unlivable simply by not taking proper precautions to avoid said predicament, rather then killing an "unthinking bunch of cells" that might actually do something with it's life? I mean lets face it, even scientifically speaking, you can't deny the fact that once that sperm and egg join, nothing short of some natural cuase or horrible tragedy is going to prevent those cells from becoming a child. So simply becuase it's in a lesser stage of developement it no longer has rights? And I'll be honest, I think people who are making the decision on when "life is life" and when it's "Just a group of cells" must think they have Godlike knowledge, to make a decision like that. Society makes me wonder sometimes :/

[Speaks for itself]
Your rejection of religion has nothing to do with the fact that you won't kill people. You don't try to kill people because you don't have the power to, at least, not without losing your own life in the process. Therefore, you cannot assert your version of morality over them. If your version of morality states that people should not murder others, then I am afraid you hold a moral that was influenced by Biblical law. Moreover, if someone has the power to kill you, then your idea of morality becomes incorrect. How you like that?

[Apparently unaware of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi" target="_blank">Codex Hammurabi</a> (1780 BC), codex of Ur-Nammu (ca. 2050 BC), the Codex of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC), and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC).]

Ask any scholar of religion and he or she will tell you that the Ten Commandments are the most unique laws of the ancient world. You won't find any laws like them anywhere else.