www.atheistforums.org

Reflex #fundie atheistforums.org

Yes, Atheism is a Religion

It's really obvious when you think about it: When atheism critiques religion, it inevitably ends up being either religious or very much like a religion.

Take, for instance, what atheism purports to say. Any meaningful form of atheism says either that God doesn't exist, or that one ought not to believe in God. They don't just mean this for themselves ("Oh, I personally don't believe, but it's perfectly okay if you believe"). Instead, they take it that not a single person has a rational basis for believing in God.

These are very strong claims. There's no science to back it up. No empirical evidence for it. So on what basis are these claims made?

There's one clear explanation: Blind faith. Atheists have blind faith in some claims, and hence they form part of an atheist's belief system.

We don't have to stop there. We can look at the definition of religion. Many scholars of world religions don't take religion to be defined as beliefs in God and the supernatural. This rules too many religions out. Instead, they look for one common ingredient in all religions, and that is the state of being ultimately concerned. Having a "most important thing" that you care about. And while, strictly speaking, atheism itself doesn't constitute all of one's religion, the broad pool of beliefs, of which atheism is a necessary and important feature. In that sense, atheism is a necessary part of one's religion. The transference of one's ultimate concern from God, to themselves.

There's a third way in which atheism does the job that religion does. Atheism itself, or as part of a larger worldview, informs our answers to the ultimate questions in life. If you find yourself an atheist, you are NOT ALLOWED to believe some set of answers to questions like "What is the meaning of life?" "Where did all of reality come from?" "What happens after we die?" "Are we more than just our bodies?". As such, atheism not only plays the role of dogma, in defining what we are not allowed to believe. It defines the range of answers we can take to be true.

For these reasons, I think it's OKAY for people to believe atheism is a religion, and for atheism to be treated like a religion, even by atheists.

Little Rik #fundie atheistforums.org

I am off to work soon so i will answer to all your points fast.
The brain is not a car of course but nevertheless is a vehicle.
A vehicle that carry a passenger.
The atheistic idea that the consciousness mind is a product of the brain will
have sooner or later be smashed in pieces.
The human being build up the vehicle not the other way around.
The brain is made of matter and the matter can not possibly build up the consciousness mind.
The two as far as the body is alive are connected to each other as the driver and the car would
allow the vehicle to move so so far one can not do anything without the other.
Does this means that when the vehicle rot down also the driver rot down?
What would you do when your car fail?
Would you fail and die with your car?
You never thought about it guys, did you?
All you will do is leave your rotting car and buy a new car in order to carry on toward the goal.
This has already been experiences by thousand of NDEs beside be part of billion of people who believe in reincarnation.
I am afraid that as soon as physical science will work together with intuitional science and will find out that the brain is a
product of the consciousness mind all atheistic ideas will be shredded in pieces.

Mr Garrison?

Is that you?

deciple #fundie atheistforums.org

The way i understand evolution is that out of nothing some kind of single celled organisim sprang and then that evolved into a two celled organism then that eventually turned into a fish, the fish turned into a lizard the lizard branched off and turned into a bird and a mammal and then from that we get monkeys and they turned into people. If that is true wouldnt it be possible to take something that already functions such as a wristwatch and send it off to a distant planet that resembles the conditions here on earth and have some kind of mars rover put it in the dirt and over millions of years shouldnt it turn into something? No it will still be a wristwatch in the dirt.

But Monkeys!!

Either one letter off from a descriptor of the person making the argument or the more typical presentation of the argument? You decide.

The "Jedi Mind Trick" Award

Sword of Christ #fundie atheistforums.org

God can give you a high that no chemical substance can hope to match. Try it, just give it a go you'll see. You may want to take your materialist assumption blinkers off first, try to bear in mind there is no "no evidence" for it and it isn't "more rational" to assume a universe of this complexity wasn't engineered given the level of natural balance on which this complexity depends. All that has been got out of the way now and you can harness the power. You don't shut off your brain you make use of all of it including, the parts you have been shutting off or ignoring. The Force will flow through you.

The "Since That Worked So Well the First Time" Award

MarxRaptor #fundie atheistforums.org

I was thinking up ideas today, & I have a really good one. Germany should be reoccupied & not be allowed any sort of military. Germany's existence is a stain on humanity. Instead of spending money on the military, Germany should have to cut back all spending & raise taxes; sending all the money to Israel.

snowtracks #fundie atheistforums.org

Words of the Bible and the facts of nature come from the same source, from God himself, who chose to make himself known. There isn’t a third choice or someone could claim they have special revelation.
God is not revealed directly through the five senses. Consider this scene. -
If a physical entity with the appearance of personhood were to materialize on the white house lawn and while saying “I’m God” (loud enough that it was recorded) levitated a foot above the ground, would that constitute proof that God is not hidden?
As the secret service approached, this entity asked one agent to place his hand onto the entity’s shoulder which the agent did thus making the entity to disappear. Later, in the briefing, the agent said the shoulder garment felt ‘velvety’, anything else you noticed? ‘yes, as we approached this thing, there was an aroma of fruit, the closer we got the more pungent it become, much like orange blossoms’.

Believer21u #fundie atheistforums.org

Some of you said am going to prove that 2+2=5,but no am going to prove that 2+2=4

What reasons do we have to believe the bible is false?

The moon is not a source of light. (Some skeptic’s claim this is a problem,that the bible say’s that the moon emit’s light,this is thought to be in the verse.

“Let them [sun and moon] be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give [emit] light on the earth.”

But consider this,even when we know that we,know that the earth,revovles around the sun and rotates on it’s axies.We say that the star’s come out at the night time,even though we know they’re always there.So in appearance it seem’s as though the moon give’ light but the fact that it does so,by reflection rather than emission is not relevant to the biblical passage.You need remeber one thing the english version of bible is not the same as the hebrew translation’s,the english bible may miss some word’s or have a similar or same word,but the hebrew translation doesn’t,The Hebrew word used for emit/give light in this verse ('owr) can mean both “to be or become light” and “to be illuminated or become lighted up”.For example imagine that someone uses a mirror to reflect light in your eye’s,the ultimate source of the light is not the mirror, but the mirror appears bright to you because you’re on the receiving end of the reflection.We need remeber that not all bible verse’s can just be taken,out on it’s own becuase it won’t sound right or it may sound contradictory,so Taking this verse out of context can make it seem inaccurate, but when we step back (cf. Genesis 1:14–18), we understand more about the purpose of this passage. we understand more about the purpose of this passage.rather than how the light is given,god created everything,the sun and the moon to mark the season’s,days and years,which to this very day they are quit doing well.Take note that the bible does not provide technical and detailed chart’s on how this work,since God gave humans the ability to discover these through observational science,more info can be found online just do the research,as nothing is further from the truth.)Two individuals can't create a healthy species.(In the begining God created,everything very god,but according to hebrew translation it can also mean perfect,so for example adam and eve’s genes would have been perfect,but after they fell due to the after shock of orginal sin there gene’s and all there body lost,perfection but they did have the ability to create a fairly healthy offspring but not perfect as if they did not sin,so your right two individual’s won’t be able to create a perfect healthy of there same species,becuase they are fallen sinner’s of adam and eve.)
The world didn't start out as a ball of liquid water in empty space without a sun nearby.(Through faith we can understand that God created everything. God created things such as the earth (with water), space (which was empty, except for the earth), time, and light on Day One (GENESIS 1:1–2). None of these things existed before Day One (HEBREWS 11:3, COLOSSIANS 1:16). He created the atmosphere, by separating the waters, on Day Two (GENESIS 1:6–8). God separated the dry land from the sea on Day Three (see ). So, you are right that there was water on Day One, because God created water on that Day.)Noah's boat is both too large to function, and too small to house the number of animals and food it would take to get us to where we are.(Now am not going to waste time,explaining all that becuase it takes too long to explain and the information cannot be made small you can go google and type in “The Resource for Answering the Critics of Noah's Ark” and in there all these matter’s are explained.)You don't breed striped livestock by having the parents screw in front of striped poles.(Don’t understand what your talking about?) You don't cure leprosy by killing a bird and sprinkling its blood on a leper.(You haven’t read the verse properly,this not what it saying what it say’s is that,the proccess of sprinkinlg the blood of bird on leper,is a ritual cleansing proccess after the leper has been healed,this verse is found in the old testament,this ritual does not apply now see this is what happen’s when you put some verse on it’s own that it would not make sense,read verse.

Leviticus 14 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “These are the regulations for any diseased person at the time of their ceremonial cleansing, when they are brought to the priest: 3 The priest is to go outside the camp and examine them. If they have been healed of their defiling skin disease,[] 4 the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the person to be cleansed. 5 Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. 6 He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. 7 Seven times he shall sprinklethe one to be cleansed of the defiling disease, and then pronounce them clean. After that, he is to release the live bird in the open fields.
Now at the time,God only sent leperasy to those who broke God’s rules,if you read on you will see that this spiritual cleansing was a confirmation to God’s ordinance, The priests could not cleanse the lepers; but when the Lord removed the plague, various rules were to be observed in admitting them again to the ordinances of God, and the society of his people.)
The amount of slaves stated to have been freed from egypt outnumbered the egyptians, and there's no historical record of such a mass exodus.(There really were Israelites in Egypt at a certain time. Evidence: There is a temple of Bene Israel in Egypt.this is not alone This alone will take page’s to answer but instead please go to youtube and watch video’s “ Israel in Egypt - Biblical Archaeology”,”EXODUS REVEALED!!- Hard Evidence in Red Sea of Israel's Escape From Egypt” on youtube.)
You could make a long list of things that just can't logically happen. You can make a lit of things that are blatantly morally wrong, like saying consenting same sex adults making love should be killed,(The Catholic church teach’s that gay people are to treated kindly,but there told not engage in the homsexual act but to live in chastaty as this is mortal sin against God and God’s word condem it and the catechism of the church) but treating people as chattel is ok as long as you don't kill your slave outright, or enslave your fellow isrealite male slave for life without giving him a wife first.(The bible does not say that slavery should not be allowed,as found in,(Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1),So many people assume that the bible is allowing slavery to happen,but what many people fail to understand, is that the slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world.The slaverly according to bible was based on race,people were not enslaved becuase of their colour or their nationality.In the bible times slavery was based on economics,depending om social status,people sold themelves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or take care the need of their family’s.In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.The bible condems race based slavery as all are in God’s image.().The bible does give instruction’s on slavery how it should a slave be treated.)There are plenty of problems to be had with the bible.(Prove It!) Plenty of reasons not to follow it,(Prove It!) including the fact that we have evidence of Yahweh starting out as a lesser war god in a Canaanite pantheon(Nope,God never changes he was never a lesser God he was fully God as stated in the bible (Malachi 3:6)) , and Jesus' story not being original or unique to him.(Prove it!) Virgin births were all the rage at one point. We have reasons enough to disbelieve the bible, to the point that it's commonly said that reading the bible at face value is a sure road to atheism.?( For me it wasn’t for me reading the bible increased my faith)

There are events that can't logically happen without magic(God can do anything as God is omnipotent,my friend God isn’t restricted to the laws of science,since he is the law giver), which can't be proven to be real, as well as deeply immoral commandments(Prove It!) and actions by Yahweh and his followers.(Prove It!) Someone being at best slightly more progressive than the culture of the time is not worthy of worship.(Prove It!)

This does not convince me that the Bible is false,try harder.

There are 15 things the church Validates on the Bible

1.Manuscript Evidence.
2.Archaeological Evidence.
3.Eyewitness Accounts.
4.Corroborating Accounts.
5.Literary Consistency.
6.Prophetic Consistency.
7.Expert Scrutiny.
8.Leader Acceptance.
9.Global Influence.
10.Changed Lives
11.God’s character
12.Scientific accuracy
13.Claim of the Divine Authorship
14.Unity of the Bible
15.Fulfilled prophecy

Lets talk about one of them scientific accuracy,there are many things in the bible that are accurate with science for example this.

Scientific accuracy of the Bible Bible is over 1,900 years old.


Fact 1.At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or giant(1500 B.C),it says in the bible.
“he hangs the earth upon nothing”(Job 26:7)

Fact 2.Only recently science discovered that everything is composed of things we can’t see..Atoms.The Bible says this:
“things which are seen were not made of things which do appear”(Hebrews 11:3)

Fact 3.The bible mentions that the earth is round way before it was discovered!!
“it is he that sits up the circle of the earth”(Isaiah 40:22)

Fact 4.Mathew Maury found paths in the sea & the Bible mentions this
“paths of the sea”(Psalms 8:8)

Fact 5.it was a scientificial discovery that light can be sent and manifest itself into speech.God asked Job this in the Bible
“can you send lightnings,that they may go,and say to you,here we are?”(Job 38.35)

Fact 6.It was scientifically discovered recently that the earth is weraing out,this can be found in the Bible in the following,(Isaiah 51:6,Psalm 102:25-26, Hebreews 1:11)

Fact 7.Mississipi River dumps 518 billion gallons every day into the Gulf of Mexico.where does it go?The Clouds.the Bible took’s about condensation verse:
“if the clouds be full of rain,they empty themselves upon the earth.”(Ecclesiastes 11:3)

Fact 8.the First Law of Thermodynamics says “neither matter nor energy can be craeted or destroyed”The Bible says:
“The heavens and the earth were FINISHED”(Genesis 2:1)No creation or destruction of them since!

Fact 9.In Genesis 6,God gave Noah the dimentions the ark.This revolutionized ship building! EVERY large ship on the high seas was inclined toward the proportions of thw Ark.

This is not it,there are more than 50 fact's in the bible but am not going state them all,unless you want me to.

Harris #fundie atheistforums.org

In Quran:

The word "man" is mentioned 23 times
The Word "woman" is mentioned 23 times

The total number of human chromosomes is 46 in 23 pairs

23 from the FATHER (man)
23 from the MOTHER (woman)

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook/basics/h...hromosomes

What is surprising that any author habitually does not bother to make sure of which word he is using how many times while expressing some idea. If some author did put some words on purpose in specific number of time, then he makes sure to make it publically known.

Perhaps the author has some secret plan behind repeating certain words in specific numbers, which people come to know after passing of some time and that is the case with Quran.

[...]

The word "Moon" appears 27 times in Quran
Moon takes a complete round around the Earth in 27 days

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon

[...]

Point one:
The word “Day” is mentioned 365 time in Quran

Point two:
The word “Month” in plural form is mentioned 30 times

Point three:
The word “Month” in singular form is mentioned 12 times

Point four:
Chapter An-Nahl, meaning “Bee,” is the 16th Surah (chapter)
The male bee has 16 chromosomes

Point five:

“And We raised him to a lofty station.”
Maryam (19)
-Verse 57-

If I put chapter number 19 and then the verse number 57, I will get 1957.

By keeping in view the contextual meaning of the verse 19:57, the amazing point here is that first ever satellite, "Sputnik 1," was launched in 1957.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_1

Do you think all these points are coincidences? Quran is full of such (so-called) coincidences. If you are not satisfied with these then let me know and I will give you more.

Prophet Mohammad received Quran in small pieces in variety of circumstances during a span of 23 years. When people compiled all those pieces in form of a book only then they learned, which word is used how many times. There was no human in seventh century and there is no human in today’s world who can arrange and compile a book the way Quran is without upsetting the consistency and meaning of the text yet keeping the specific pattern of word repetitions with a miraculous accuracy.

“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura (chapter) like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.”
Al Baqarah (2)
-Verse 23-

“Is it that their faculties of understanding urge them to this, or are they but a people transgressing beyond bounds?
Or do they say, "He fabricated the (Message)?” Nay, they have no faith!
Let them then produce a recital like unto it, - If (it be) they speak the truth!”
Ath-Thuur (52)
Verses 32 – 34 -

Reflex #fundie atheistforums.org

Ridiculous or not, some atheists do emulate their religious brethren.

No doctrine? No dogma? No common text? No leader or worldview? We seem to be living in different worlds. It's special pleading if you don't count Darwin's Origin of Species as a common text. No leaders? What about Dawkins and his ilk? They don't count? They're the high priests of vocal atheism. To say atheism has no worldview is like a fish saying there is no water: it's so pervasive it's invisible. Society never tires of using and abusing the media as a weapon of propaganda to get its religiously anti-religion across. It teaches us that atheists are open-minded and reasonable people who believe in the scientific method and who reject superstition. They are writers, scholars and experts who never misrepresent the facts or misuse words, while religionists are retarded Neanderthals who refuse to be persuaded by the brilliance of atheistic arguments, which of course only reinforces how stupid those knuckle-dragging religious types are.

This narrative is repeated ad nauseam in our popular culture: atheists are smart, theists are stupid; atheists love science; theists hate science; atheism is clever, superstitious religion is foolish; atheism is open-minded and tolerant; religion is dogmatic and intolerant; atheism does not seek to impose its views on others; religion seeks to impose its views on others. Four legs good, two legs bad.

There is no technology atheists will not pervert to their cause. The lessons are pumped into our children in government classrooms (for that is what “public schools” are – government indoctrination camps where reading and math have been supplanted by cultural indoctrination to secular humanist ideology). Those lessons are repeated in our television programs. Those lessons are recited dutifully by our news anchors. The goal, apparently, is to bludgeon religionists, and Christians in particular, into silence with the supremacy of their “science” and “reason.”

Technically, one is quite correct to say atheism is not a religion, but it certainly has all the hallmarks of one.

Harris #fundie atheistforums.org

Let me introduce a new miracle of Quran.

The word “Land” mentioned in Quran 13 times that is 13/45 = 28.888
The word “Sea” mentioned in Quran 32 times that is 32/45 = 71.111

The approximate ratio of land to sea is 13:32 or 28.888:71.111

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html

The author, who hypothetically was living in desert in seventh century, knew the exact quantity of water on earth and that knowledge made him capable of writing these figures in coded form.

Drich #fundie atheistforums.org

Regarding Jesus falsely telling people in Matthew 16:28 that the end of the world would come in their lifetimes

Hold on cowboy, Christ says "28 “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

So the burden of proof on you to establish that Christ's Kingdom did not come as described before all of those men died.

Complidudaaldo #fundie atheistforums.org

What If I could present this idea that, atheistically, evolution was not the only alternative to spirituality/religious beliefs? – Regardless of the fact, religion means, “self-immersion in holisticism.” - 
Indeed, I am quite interested in evaluating the alternative routes to an atheistic reality. So perceive this:
 
If opals can be found all around the globe, and topaz too, diamonds, oils, reoccurring minerals, gems of various varieties, as well as common chemical compounds.

Then what, is to suggest that DNA also, cannot have multiple simultaneous or divided origins?

DNA is limited to the molecular composure of our reality, and must be stable and efficient in order to be sustainable or present in current day observation. DNA must also be compatible with a cell, which is also limited to our molecular composure, and must be sustainable or optimal to exist.

Thus, since cells and DNA have a limited amount of forms they can exist in, it is no coincidence that they are similar. There was simply no option for variation. THUS, it IS possible, that there is no common ancestry between monkeys of each variety, felines of different kinds, humans and apes, elephants and rhinos, and the predominant population of species on the planet.

Justly, because these are all assertions which use all the observed sciences applied to the theory of evolution. It is equally as plausible.

Each lineage can have uniquely originated in isolated situations.
Limbs, organs and parts of the body are nothing but reoccurring patterns on a molecular scale. Thus, it is not hard to understand the similarities between living species.
 
AH HA. And what I have done is presented skepticism to Evolution, by evaluating an alternative theory. I did not use skepticism as a debate tactic, but instead created it analytically.

Liberate yourself.
And eat up dat pudding.
Zero-common ancestry Atheism.


This, is superior to eating up the heavily invested in theory of evolution used to manipulate the populations into indulgence, selfishness, isolation and bigotry. Which is the theory the cartels fund heavily to promote prostitution.

Lion IRC #fundie atheistforums.org

[But go ahead, tell us what sort of beliefs can't be "proven" by science.]


Physics. Forces. Strong nuclear. Weak nuclear. Gravity. Magnetic.

There is force which I call “soul” that can be proven to exist by scientific method. Take a rock and drop it. Physics can predict quite accurately exactly what will happen to the rock.

The rock will obey gravity, land on the floor and remain there until……………

Until what?

Until I walk over and pick it up. I can lift the rock using my own free will/volition.

Physics cannot predict when or EVEN IF I will pick up the rock.

Physics has no name for the unpredictable and VERY REAL force acting upon the matter of my shoulder, my arm, my hand, the rock in the EXACT OPPOSITE DIRECTION of gravity.

It is not hormones – hormones are matter.
It is not brain – brain cells are matter. Matter has no free will.

So what exactly is the name of the force (which acts in a way science cannot predict) that lifts the rock doing the opposite of what gravity intended?

Drich #fundie atheistforums.org

For the same reason there are no 'atheist' in fox holes (at least while being shot at.) when one is face with the very real threat of death, even if you have doubts, one tends to believe enough to ask for his or her own life whether they will admit it or not.

image

They do not look like they're underfire to me. Or do you not know what a fox hole is? Those guys look like they work 'in the rear with the gear' where people can still afford to deny God. (Note the big High wall behind them and the gate.) Again a base is not a fox hole.

(I'm pretty fucking sure people who go into foxholes don't just stay there unless they get shot down. Who the fuck are you to judge people as the "foxhole type"?)

Again because they are not standing in 'Fox holes' being shot at.

Just because you are 'over there' does not automaticaly place you on the front lines (Where the fox holes are.)

Just so we are clear a 'fox hole' is a pit dug usually hastily for individual cover from enemy fire. Meaning there are not high was or protect areas/armor to hide behind.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foxhole

Again those d-bags are not in foxholes.

MysticKnight #fundie atheistforums.org

(I understand everything you said above until this. Do we need to discuss the 'theory' of gravity again?)


Gravity is a theory. For all I know, there is no force between objects. It's all enforced by a Creator for example. For all I know, material objects don't exist, and only souls exists, and there is a designer giving rise to our experience of the material world.

The whole way the world works, atoms, etc, perhaps none of the laws are intrinsic to existence. They simply are being imposed by a higher power.

If gravity was a fact, I would suspect the philosophical argument of whether we know a physical world exists would be debunked.

Little Rik #fundie atheistforums.org

God consciousness = ______________________________________________________

Most human beings consciousness = ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (sort of)

Animals consciousness = /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/\ (sort of)

Matter consciousness = | | | | (sort of as with my computer is impossible to reproduce it in a correct way).

I hope you guys understand anyway with this sort of example but if you still can't get it let me put in a different way and explain with a different example why it is next to impossible for you to communicate with God.

If you are not able to get a perfect tune with God is a bit the same when you try to tune a station on your radio.

Is not the radio fault.
It is your fault.
God is there.
The right station is there.
It is only a question to tune in.
That of course is a lot more difficult than to tune a radio to the correct station.
First you got to change your curved waves into a straight line and in order to do this it require a lot of effort both physical and mental.
Physically speaking it is important to stop eating something that dirt your body like non vegetarian food, smokes, booze, drugs and so on.
Mentally speaking it is very important to keep your mind open to all possibilities but even more important is to clean the non physical part of ourselves like the chakra.
Once you do that the straight line is able to go through your inner self and experience God but of course
this parallelism can not happen if you keep on cling to the physical science as the panacea for all problems. :)

Little Rik #fundie atheistforums.org

I just can't stand that guy [Stephen Hawking] because all he says are untested theories that don't make any sense.

(Such as?)

The bloke was saying that there is no God (untested theory) but after some time he say something different.
He say.....Hawking's views on the existence of God have been the subject of much debate, especially since his 1988 "A Brief History of Time" in which he mused that the discovery of an overarching theory of everything would allow us to "know the mind of God", which some people have interpreted as literal and some as literary. However, in his 2010 book "The Grand Design" he states unequivocally that "spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God...to set the universe going".

http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/scie...wking.html

Which is all very confusing (sort of bullshit).


Not happy with that he stated that the universe started with the big bang but again after sometime he change his story into a myriad of other stories.
If the bloke would have look inside rather then outside he would have a better idea of how the whole system works.
Matter, water, light and energy, air, space, mind and consciousness are all inside ourselves.
From here it is not difficult to know that the matter is the last transformation of pure consciousness
and therefore the creator of the matter is the super conscious mind.
But no, Hawking started from the wrong place therefore is all very confusing. :Lightbulb:

SavedByGraceThruFaith #fundie atheistforums.org

The dates given by AOS for past events may actually disprove evolution entirely

When atheistic origin science gives dates, they seem to violate standard scientific practice. Real science gives a number and an error range. But atheistic origin science many times quotes a number without any error range. You will read things like 123 million years ago. Why the lack of an error range? What is the error range? How is that error range determined? This bad scientific practice shows that atheistic origin science is not real science.

To show why the real error range destroys atheistic origin science consider the following cases.

Case 1 – Determination of an intermediate species.

Ancestor 120 million years ago
Intermediate 115 million years ago
Descendant 110 million years ago

Seems straightforward. Now consider these same numbers with error ranges.

Ancestor 120 million years ago +- 10 million years
Intermediate 115 million years ago +- 10 million years
Descendant 110 million years ago +- 10 million years

Based on these numbers, then this could be the case.

Ancestor 113 million years ago
Intermediate 115 million years ago
Descendant 118 million years ago

That is the descendant came first, then the intermediate, then the ancestor. So that is now shown to be false.

Case 2 – determination of the rock layers

Top layer 100 million years
Middle layer 110 million years
Bottom layer 120 million years

Seems straightforward. Now consider these same numbers with error ranges.

Top layer 100 million years +- 10 million years
Middle layer 110 million years +- 10 million years
Bottom layer 120 million years +- 10 million years

Based on these numbers, then this could be the case.

Top layer 108 million years
Middle layer 118 million years
Bottom layer 112 million years

So the middle is the bottom and the bottom is the middle. That would be very hard to explain if these layers exist over a vast area.

Now combine the fossils in the out of order layers and ancestors are more recent than descendants. In fact the dates from case 1 and case 2 may conflict.

So the error ranges may put all the dates of the rock layers and fossil record in jeopardy.

What are the error ranges?

How are they determined?

Eye of God #fundie atheistforums.org

Use your head, theists come with certain beliefs that we are commanded to share. Dur.

[You are also commanded to kill witches and homosexuals. To kill people who wear clothes made of 2 different materials. To kill those who work on the sabbath. You are also commanded to kill atheists and the entire town in which you find said atheist. Do you do these things? Hypocrite.

Don't pretend that you do anything because the bible says so.]

I do everything my Lord commands me. If he were to command of me that I kill homosexuals and people who work on the Sabbath, than I would be forced to do so. However, that order was given to the Israelites for a reason I do not know. NOT ME. Perhaps if I was born an Israeli I might feel differently.

Thankfully, that act has not been asked of me and I am glad because I personally have nothing against homosexuals or working on a Sunday.

JBrentonK #fundie atheistforums.org

Atheism. Atheism is not a religion. It is most remote from being a part of this great section. As we know, all atheists are in denial of the simple epistemologicial reality of the "theists". At best, atheism is pure closet homosexuality in public, where the disfigured, disgruntled completely irrational minded man says in front of everybody's face for no apparent reason, completely irrational statements, disguised on purpose which is what's worse. How do we expect a world of rationality and clear thought, to widen our horizons one day, when the level of rationality we see before us is as putrid as an example of this particular type of atheist? How can an atheist even claim his position is religious, or "one of religion", when it completely ignores this significant title by being nothing but a position of hatred? The answer is that it is not a religion, nor has ever been a religion. And the world better wisen up if it expects to one day have categories of religion taken seriously.

So I am furious that atheists believe they can be public homosexuals, physically and irrationally disfigured, christian hating "free souls", with no care to the consequences. But that nevertheless is not the point of my thread. I am furious at YOU, the atheist reader, and his public obvious stupiditys and personal hatreds. Furious with the many instances of atheist "morality" and hundreds of millenia worth of credit towards atheists/atheism. This is the essense of stupidity people, you will not be warned again.

By the by, this IS the reason this is in the religion subforum, I hope you all had a very lovely read, please feel free to reply in kind, I've waited about a month before returning to this low, debased forum for posting my thread about this topic. A topic about religiousness. Please feel free to "express" your religion. :angel:

Randy Carson #fundie atheistforums.org

If it is your opinion that Eve had NO knowledge of good or evil whatsoever, then why does the next few verses say:

Genesis 3:6
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.

Eve knew:

1. the tree was "GOOD for food"
2. GOOD to look at ("pleasing to the eye")
3. GOOD for gaining knowledge ("desirable for gaining wisdom").

Clearly, there are at least three ways that Eve knew that something was "good"; thus, we can see that she did have some basic understanding of "good" and "evil" and from this alone she should have been able to grasp that disobeying God was NOT good - especially in light of His warning that they would die if they ate of that tree.

This is just another attempt to make God a moral monster by blaming Him for our human failings.

Little Rik #fundie atheistforums.org

This is really a sad story for the atheist cause.
Atheists that suppose to be the most open mind people around show once again that they are as bad as those religious fanatics that take a guess as a golden truth and therefore creating a dogma.
In the past few weeks some atheists said that the peak of evolution or the ultimate in evolution is being a human.
When I did asked to show the evidence someone reply with a direct swearing to me.

I really can not see any difference between a religious fanatic that only believe in creation or that there is the hell and an atheist that go around saying that the peak of evolution or that the ultimate in evolution is being a human.
None of whatsoever.

NDEs already show that being a human is not the peak of existence beside to understand that concept you don't need a big brain or even the NDEs.
Just look around and see how it is difficult to find peace of mind and permanent happiness.
How on earth can a human being that hasn't yet overcome his-her own personal problem can say that he or she is at the top of the evolution cycle?
It would be like to say that a vehicle that go from point A to point B has reached point B before point B has been reached.
How on earth can someone be so sure to have reached the peak of evolution well before he-she hasn't sort out his-her own problems.
Absurd. :Banghead:

Sleepy #fundie atheistforums.org

One of the illogical things about atheists is their belief in relativity in everything. There is no absolutes in anything.

Some may believe killing is bad, others it's ok( evolutionary asserting your dominance)
Rape is bad, rape is ok( dominant mammal satisfying sexual desire)

In fact the latter of the two is most in line with atheists as they love to talk about evolutionary adaptations.

So why can't humans rape? Any atheists that condemn rape first of all are going against relativism and assuming there should absolutely be no rape. According to whom? According to whom should there be no rape?
The answer is clear, Allah prohibits rape. The penalty is death.

Atheists live in contradictions, relativity is the foundation of atheisms while many atheists are 'condemning' rape. Rape is jus another action relative to that individual. So it's illogical for atheists to condemn it.

Islam= Probibits rape
Atheists= rape is ok to some and bad to some
Atheist responses- it's bad. You can't force somebody.

Why not? Why is it 'bad'? What's wrong with a male spreading his genes through dominating a weaker individual. Survival of the fittest right? Why is it 'wrong'?

Snowtracks #fundie atheistforums.org

but as you may know, Christ spend an eternity in hell for each person so they could avoid it.

[That doesn't make sense. If he spent an eternity in hell, then he is there now and he always will be. He cannot have spent an eternity for each person, since an eternity is basically forever.

The Bible tells us he was dead for three days and a half. That's not an eternity. And for an eternal being, that amount of time is not even the blink of an eye. And it's remarkably unfair for that same being to condemn others to an eternity of punishment.]

God evidently has access to a time plane (or something equivalent) which consist of an infinite number of timelines each of which can be expanded or contracted to control the time rate. He is not usher along the cosmic timeline, nor controlled in anyway by it including it's cause and effect one direction property since He is supra-dimensional to time and space.
'torment' is more correctly translated 'restraint'. the more one demonstrates earthly evil, the more restraint they will have in hell. this is to protect others from those that would unleash their most destructive capabilities. Why are they there? they have demonstrated their desires to want nothing to do with God, so He allows them their wishes but still provide them with protection from the most evil and vile. remember, God is true to his nature, and His nature doesn't allow torment. hell's inhabitants don't like there but they want independence from God even more so God accommodates them. Evidently, God creates spiritual being to live forever. there will be a new heaven and earth (Universe), and it will be sealed off from hell.

Think of an individual timeline for each individual eternity conpressed down to a few hours.

Haipule #fundie atheistforums.org

I love this dude! Help me more with full moon. The earth is in between the moon and the sun. So that the moon is furthest from the sun. Yet, the moon is full as a reflection. Yet, is that the reflection of the light that the earth emanates(for lack of a better word) by itself independent of the sun's light? If true, then earth must be a light giving body.


So then, what is light? It must be an electro magnetic wave and not a photon of magic unicorn dust! I do not belong to the Cult of Bombarding Particles. Nature must be waves interacting within a field and NOT particles
in bombardment!

Therefore, illumination is the truth and emittance is the lie!


There are two things I want to know. The vibration of light in full spectrum, and the vibration of sound in full spectrum beyond the obvious of ultraviolet, visible and infrared; and beyond subsonic, audible and ultrasonic. 


Why? Because I am beginning to understand that sound and light vibration can effect magnetism but I don't know how? 

If I can't understand the principles of diamagnetism and magnetism: I cannot understand dielectric and electric, capacitance, on and on etc and etc.

I will some day be able to understand this so that I can turn nature upside down. Then I will ask: "What's Up!"

My greatest teachers so far are bees, dragonflies and beetles NOT calculus! Those little critters SCREAM, "What's Up!"

Rational AKD #fundie atheistforums.org

On atheists having a burden of proof

this is going around in a never ending circle... I realize you don't have a claim that God doesn't exist, but you've still claimed that such a proposition is more rational than saying "God exists." so nice try, you still can't avoid burden of proof.

VAN BELLE Jean Marc #fundie atheistforums.org

Scientists never 'create' things: they trying mixing things together in weird, non natural and natural ways, and suddenly have a result they did not expect while 'playing with their interests as they were kids'.

Sometimes they can do things with that that were not intended when trying it out.

And then they start to gossip, to slander... and 'create' theories.

So scientists and their followers/believers (!!!) create theories, not things of their own. Unless we call these 'words' life, of course (and so they get "off course" here).

SavedByGraceThruFaith #fundie atheistforums.org

I proved the 'no God" assumption false with 2 proofs.

Proof 1:
by contradiction
assume no God
that leads to countless contradictions
therefore the no God assumption is false.
There God exists

Proof 2:
By Modus Ponens
1. If the universe and life have vast complexity that only an intelligent creator could cause then the universe and life is created by its Creator, God
2. the universe and life have vast complexity that only an intelligent creator could cause
3. Therefore, the universe and life is created by its Creator, God.

Sword Of Christ #fundie atheistforums.org

[After being asked for evidence that the universe was designed:]

You can go into thew mathematical structures and patterns of the universe, natural forces, living forms and the various mathematical ratios and aspects of the human body and DNA, the Golden Section and all the rest of it.

But it helps if you accept the universe is the purpose made creation of the almighty God before you get into those details.

AtlasS33 #fundie atheistforums.org

No; use "common sense"; the verses do mean what they say exactly.
For example, this verse:

Sura 16
( 15 ) And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and [made] rivers and roads, that you may be guided,

Take it "literally". Mountains increase earth's mass. If they don't exist, earth's mass would decrease. Disturb the mass, and you'll disturb the orbit of the planet.

Love333 #fundie atheistforums.org

6 + 6 always equals 12 and at the same time it does not. It is how you perceive it. The perception makes it real.

Synergy can occur in Pharmacology when
1 + 1 = 3

If you use a number system that does not involve the english "12" than "12" does not matter in that system. It is irrelevant.

All is fact and nothing is fact. Just as all is opinion as nothing is opinion. They are separate yet equal. 6 + 6 = what you perceive it to mean or what you do not perceive it to mean. An
infant cannot perceive the answer. So the answer is not perceivable to an infant yet that is the infants answer. It is right to an infant but wrong to you. Yet in the bigger sense both are right and wrong because we are all one.

How do you know an electron exists if you cannot truly see it clearly with your own eye just as the the untrained animals knows where to go season after season? How could you possibly know the truth if your mind is closed?

Huggy74 #fundie atheistforums.org

(Regarding golden spirals, ID and bees:}

Except that the example I gave of Bees involved how they reproduced, not the shape of their hive.

For instance, a male be will have
1 parent
2 grand parents
3 g grand parents
5 gg grand parents
8 ggg grand parents

and females tree would start at 2,3,5,8,13.
by dividing the number of females by the number of males you get 1.618, Phi.

Bees have no concept of mathematics, so why do they reproduce according to the same sequence? what determines it? Isn't reproduction supposed to be random? coincidence?

PiousPaladin #fundie atheistforums.org

As for your final comment I don't see anything wrong with slavery. The condemnation of slavery was also part of the heretical Vatican II council. The Catholic Church does not condemn slavery, in fact it is useful. Both to us and for the condemned party, it is kinder to enslave a pagan and grant him time to repent than to kill him outright.

ronkonkoma #fundie atheistforums.org

Correct me if I'm wrong....

First cause:

We are part of the self-conscious universe. Our brains are the most complex things we know in the universe. We are parts of the universe that probe the universe and are fascinated by it, because being intelligent, we can also sense intelligence when it is there. We are able to create things in the small scheme, and we look for a creator on the grand scheme of things. The Cal Tech supercomputer can now make measurements 10 to the 23rd power. It has been estimated by astronomers that the complexity of the universe in simply balancing gravity against the electric force needs calculations a hundred trillion times more precise. And this is just one aspect of the universe that without which life could never happen.

The Universe had a beginning. It is no longer believed to be infinite. This was shown by the Big Bang theory. Time itself had a beginning (see the "beginning of time"" by Stephen Hawkins). Space, time and matter had a beginning!

This is important to your question because it was a commonly held idea that life initially came about on earth by chance form atoms assembling to form molecules and proteins, cells, to reproducing life by random chance over an infinite amount of time, over an infinite amount of rolls of dice on a seemingly infinite number of earth-like planets. We now know that time is not infinite. And neither is matter. There are very strict requirements for the existence of life in the expanding universe, and our Earth in our 21st century is extremely lucky in that regard. Yes, we are star dust. Flourine in our bodies can only form as dust from a dying star is pulled off by the gravity of a nearby dying star, and a third planet is around to cross the path of this star dust. There are an estimated 41 of fine tuned conditions like these that are needed for life to exist on a planet. A chance in a billion trillions.

This is crucial because, like seeing an exploding grenade and asking, "who pulled the pin?", we are asking, Who or what caused this????

And the answer is, if there is a cause for the Big Bang and the beginning of time, space and matter, and life itself, it is GROSSLY INTELLIGENT.

Hence...
V
V
V
Deistic deity.
Since space, matter and time had a beginning, the Cause of it must have existed OUTSIDE of space, matter and time.
So the question, "if God created the universe who created God?" does not apply. That's because something beyond space and time has no need to begin to exist, but is rather in eternal existence.

Hence... we come to theology
V
V
V
Theistic god:
If the material universe has a beginning and is finite and it has a cause, the cause must be immaterial. Hence, theologians have been saying since thousands of years that God is immaterial (God is spirit). And if this Origin of space and time is outside of space and time, it can also be omnipresent.

And a God of Love:
The total mass of the universe acts as a catalyst for nuclear fusion. The more massive the cosmos, the more efficient nuclear fusion. If the Universe is too massive, the basic elements Oxygen, Nitrogen and Carbon could not form. If the Universe was too small, we would be stuck with only Hydrogen. But the Universe is exploding from a miniscule beginnings of an immensely immense mass. The time for life to form is exactly now. Its taken 14 billion years. Now, the exact position and mass of a billion stars allows life to form on this miniscule planet. OUR life. Hence... the Creator is loving since the price He paid for life to form on earth can be seen in the brilliance of a billion stars in the night sky. Just as Abraham gazed at the night sky and conversed with God, leading him out for the Promised Land.

Hence...
V
V
V
Abrahamic god:
The Abrahamic God out of all the religious texts is the only one that is said to be outside of space and time. The "Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end." We are mostly material beings so we can't even define Him completely. It is He who defines Himself, telling Moses, "I AM WHO I AM".

What's more, Jesus Christ, also said of Himself:
"Truly, truly I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (i.e. he is above the limits of time. Those who heard him recognized the blatent message and vowed to kill him for blasphemy. And he walked on water. The message? He is beyond matter.)

Hence...
V
V
Your particular abrahamic god: Jesus Christ - The God of Love. The one who became one of us, in the greatest event in human history.

your particular denomination's god
V
V
V
I am Catholic. That means I rely on nature, science, divine revelation and tradition- the experience of scholars and leaders since 2000 years. Combine everything to make a final conclusion. I grew up as a Catholic but it took 33 years to be able to express this huge thing.

And I pray. Prayer is just mindfulness of the presence of the Creator through introspection. Introspection is looking inward, though our inner eyes to our deepest desires and longings. And our deepest core that longs for our Creator.

"Deep is calling on Deep in the churning of the waters. Your waves have swept over me." Psalm 42.

V
V
V
your personal version of this god: For that I am figuring out who I am, and that will take a lifetime.


Really, really pretty please? ._.

(I realize that the last two may be the same thing depending on the circumstances, so feel free to merge them if you like)

ronedee #fundie atheistforums.org

You're not looking for anything but to degrade God, Jesus and anyone associated with God, and any thoughts of a spiritual nature. You are spiritually dead! Like St. Paul says: "God, and Jesus are nonsense to the lost men of this world." And trying to reason with people like you is an occasion for sin!

The Constitution of the United States of America was written by [Godly people]. Who prayed before every meeting Be glad you're not living with a country (yet) that doesn't fear God. Freedom and God are synonymous. No matter what way you try to carve it up to be.

Why do people want to be in America? Just ask anyone crossing our borders illegally longing for a better life? FREEDOM. And you can't have it without everything that God stands for!

When the Constitutional Convention hit a snag 5 weeks in because of arguments and misunderstandings.... what did they do? PRAY!!

Believe whatever you want about the piece of paper, and the men who assembled it. Fact is, that God was indeed the inspiration that empowered everything that resulted in our US Constitution.

Heywood #fundie atheistforums.org

If we are living in a computer simulation, the end of the world might be around the year 2050. It will be about that time when we have the computational abilities to run are own ancestor simulations. This will cause stacking of simulations upon simulations eating up all the computational resources of the parent reality.

pool #fundie atheistforums.org

[Look, pool. You're trying to say that theists don't exist just because what they worship isn't well defined. But they do exists, just as football exists, even though football players play an imperfect game. Catch my drift?]


And now i'm just sitting here sobbing like a 2 year old because nobody has ever been that understanding with me,even my dad - i'd probably save you if i had to choose between you and 5 random people.

*That's exactly what i'm saying.
How can someone believe in something with no physical or theoretical evidence(But probability can say that the existence is probable because:aliens(long story))but when it is also something that is ill defined?Then it's a whole another thing..

*It's like believing in fldsmdfrism which is a ism that says that fldsmdfr exists and fldsmdfrists doesn't even know what fldsmdfr is.Therefore i can discredit fldsmdfrism and therefore fldsmdfrists cannot exist because the reason why they existed in the first place is itself flawed!

*I can't seem to connect god with football because football has a physical evidence also it has a consistent definition.("Any of various forms of team game involving kicking (and in some cases also handling) a ball, in particular (in the UK) soccer or (in the US) American football.")

*So if god doesn't exist theism shouldn't exist either because the most basic element that was used to build theism is "God".So theists do not also exists.But theists that "think" they know the definition of God exists,but they aren't truly theists because they only "think" they know it there can never be "theists".Don't you agree?
If you do,then why should atheism exist?Which is a ism that rejects the claim of theism(which cannot make a claim because what they are claiming to exist doesn't have any theoretical evidence nor does it have any physical evidence and then they say they don't even have a consistent definition of it!What the fuck theists??)

David Sims #racist atheistforums.org

I've recently been examining racist arguments without taking the attitude that there just must be something factually incorrect about them. I've noticed a few things about them.

First, racists often rely far more extensively on empirically derived facts than their opponents do. That is, racists don't "just make it up" and then rantingly insist upon their narrative. Instead, they do quite a bit of research before they write.

Second, racists are usually more fair in their conclusions and in their presentations than they are usually credited for being.

Third, the opponents of racism, whom I'll call "egalitarians," are usually the ones who sound as if they were defending some sort of preconceived quasi-religious orthodoxy. Strip away their pejoratives, or ignore them, and judge the racist viewpoint in the light of its own merits, and racism seems at times to be rather convincing.

Drich #fundie atheistforums.org

Do you know where the real fun begins?

We will all get to see together. fore it seems all of the key players are being moved on to the board. The next big chess piece will be the one who ties or bridges the gap between government and this new 'not Christ' version of christianity the pope is creating. This guy will be able to unite all major forms of religion under one 'church.'

Then someone or some group holding(maybe even muslim as they too will be affected) on to the old system will lash out possiably at him (seemingly mortal head wound) or this new world order thus allowing him to outlaw all non- one world religion, expressions of faith. insisting that all believers take his mark..

This pope will indeed continue to deball Christianity to the point where it simply becomes a form of spiritualism that will fit any other lukewarm version of any other faith. Leaving those masses who follow that faith open to new leadership.

professor #fundie atheistforums.org

I wonder how many Jewish people have longed to be NOT chosen.
No group of people have been more persecuted.
You see, they were not chosen to be some kind of "Special" above others entity.
The chosen-ness has to do with purpose.
It has been like a target on their back for a very long time.
Satan knows if he can destroy that people- the prophecies die and his doom is put off.
The Spanish inquisition, the Catholic one, Satan's man Hitler, were all shots at this.
Now Islam raises it's ugly head against them. 
Bad timing for Islam.

On America, just like ancient Israel, when they walked uprightly for a time- they prospered.
America has prospered. 
But there is a two edged sword to it just as there is a duality for the Jews.
Americas have chosen a president according to their sin.
Because of where we are in time- this last presidential choice has ramifications beyond previous selections.

If one tenth of what I have shown occurs- we both can chalk it up to chance.
If most of it happens, tough choices need to done.

kiliç_mehmet #fundie atheistforums.org

Marriage has not changed, it is still between a man and a woman

*Oh you mean it's not between a man and his many wives and concubines, a woman and her rapist, a woman and an invading soldier who just helped conquer the land she lives in, a man and his dead brother's wife...

The wives are not married to eachother, the "marriage" itself is still between the man and the woman.

Besides, the other examples really serve to assist my point. It's between a man and a woman.

SavedByGraceThruFaith #fundie atheistforums.org

Some Simple Questions show Atheistic Origin Science is false (proof 2 begins)

Atheistic origin science has a lot of explaining to do to counter the very obvious and scientific conclusion that God, the Almighty Creator, indeed created all things. A thorough investigation into the facts, the laws of nature, mathematics, and logic will prove that this alternative explanation, of an origin without God, is totally false and contradictory.

Therefore, a second irrefutable proof of the existence of God Almighty the Creator can be made. Assume indeed that atheistic origin science is correct, and all of the creation can be explained without God by the laws of nature and random chance. As will be shown, this assumed theory will prove to be false. And since the only alternative to a Creator is false, then again the fact that the Creator, God Almighty, exists will have been proven again.

Atheistic origin science claims that it can explain the origin of things without God. The claim is that most things have been explained and only the details need to be ironed out. The truth is that atheistic origin science has not been able to answer anything of importance in the origin question. If anything, new discoveries have ended all hope that it will ever be successful. So after over 150 years since Darwin, and over 50 years of an extensive effort, atheistic origin science has not answered anything. Why does anybody believe it ever will? Most of its believers have either died or will die before anything will ever be answered.

To show that atheistic origin science has failed, I will just ask for some simple answers to some very simple questions. If atheistic origin science has answers, this should be no more than to copy the answers from the verified answer book of atheistic origin science.

If there are no real answers, it proves my point.

If the answers given are not complete answers, avoids questions, dances around questions, or doesn't answer one single question, what does that say about the claims of atheistic origin science.

Please note I have some more simple questions to ask.

Questions

What was the first living thing?

Was it made of just proteins?
If so, how many amino acids did it have and what was their sequence?
What are the odds of that happening?
Please show real calculations.
How did it then make the jump to RNA and DNA?
What are the odds of that happening?
Please show real calculations.

Was it made of just RNA and proteins?
If so, how many nucleotides for the RNA and amino acids for the proteins?
What were the sequences for both?
What are the odds of that happening?
How did it then make the jump to DNA?
What are the odds of that happening?
Please show real calculations.

Did it actually use DNA?
If so, how many nucleotides for the DNA?
What was the DNA code sequence?
What are the odds of that happening?
Please show real calculations.

What was the 2nd living creature?
The 3rd, 4th ... up the actual first cell?
What are the odds of each of those jumps?
Please show real calculations.

Upward evolution

Could man have evolved from an apelike creature in just 5 million years?
What are the odds based on the fact that there would be about 30 million base code differences in a 3 billion base code DNA between the 2 creatures, only 500,000 generations in that time, and only at most several million individuals for each of most of those generations?
What are the odds?
Please show real calculations.
How did that happen since higher-level creatures use sexual reproduction?
Please show real calculations.

Now repeat that feat for the over 100 million species that have been supposedly on the Earth. What are the odds of that?
Please show real calculations.

Given the fact that mutations in general corrupt the DNA code, why is the DNA code of all species not completely corrupted after the long line of progression over hundreds of millions of years?

The fossil record

Why does the fossil record show distinct species fully formed throughout?

Why has not a single chain of missing links of one disparate species becoming another ever been found in the entire fossil record?
There are millions of chains of missing links still missing. None have been found.

Provide one set of dates for one supposed intermediate species. Give the dates of the ancestor, the intermediate and the descendent species for one intermediate species.

Drich #fundie atheistforums.org

I honestly didn't know 'hitch' died..

I hope God recorded the "oh f*cking Hell" look on his face when he woke up on the otherside of eternity, and just realized life's work went into the toilet.

I'd like to binge watch several 'great atheists' expressions and their judgement day arguments get flushed..

snowtracks #fundie atheistforums.org

(Regarding a news article suggesting that NASA found DNA, or some of the building blocks of it, in space)

finding meteoritic trace amounts of these chemical compounds are tantamount to finding gold in sea water. just another nasa ploy to keep program funding's flowing, they're playing you like fiddle and you don't even know it.

Atheist_BG #fundie atheistforums.org

Muslims wanna kill me because I'm not a muslim. So the feelings are mutual - I want them dead because they're not atheists and I don't care what any of you thinks about that. Whenever you come to live here and live longer than a year in order to start to understand what's going on here, only then you can judge me for my murderous feelings towards the circumcised swines. And they're not just my feelings, my whole nation feels that way. Well, except for the venal traitors in the politics.
Looks like Merkel and the rest of the EU leaders are as blind as you are. And by the time you realize what's happening, it's gonna be too late.

insider432 #fundie atheistforums.org

from a post titled "Proof of creation no atheist can debunk (100% bulletproof)"

The Intelligent design of our universe is geometrical and congruent forming beautiful shapes and images with the number 9 as a proof of concept stamp on it given by God. From atoms to galaxies and even our DNA is surrounded by geometrical shapes and patterns with the number 9 hidden inside as proof of creation.

Numbers form shapes and do very weird things according to magnetism. When you add numbers a certain way, different patterns arise which create geometrical shapes. It seems that the construction of our universe, galaxy, and solar system revolves around the number 9 somehow and this number comes up everywhere just as a woman is pregnant for 9 months displaying the 9 code.

The number 9 seems to govern not only properties of physical reality but also time:

Using the digital root method:

1,440 minutes in a day = adds up to 9
86,400 seconds in a day = adds up to 9
10,080 minutes in a week = adds up to 9
525,600 minutes in a year = adds up to 9

Minutes and seconds in a day, week, month, year will always reduce to 9. Totally unaffected by the varying number of days in months and years i.E "leap years".

The number 9 seems to govern time and space, it also seems to be existent and non existent at the same time.

professor #fundie atheistforums.org

Russia is unwilling to be controlled by the western elete.

The only friend the bear has is Iran and it's allies.
They are going to march against Israel.

I wish I knew when.
After Israel knocks out the Iranian nuke threat?

They will march on Israel and will die on the mountains there.
Great storms and natural disasters will come against them.
The whole world is going to see what God thinks of Islam and Communism.

mickiel #fundie atheistforums.org

There are many ways to verify a god , but because god is unorthodox, the verification is as well; one has to think outside the box of the norm. atheism is a way to verify god, why has not the world been entirely atheist, since it began that way? And why has theism overshadowed atheism in human history? How did it move to the forefront and stay that way for so long?

The duality concept must be observed then, as unorthodox as it is. How could we have up without down? In without out? Good without evil? Yen without yang? theist without atheist? Natural without unnatural? Male without female? The existence of one demands the existence of the other.

atheism is right, none of mans gods exist, absolutely none of them. But there is a god outside of human invention. Both then must exist, no gods and god. That duality is evidence that no yen can be removed from the yang. We cannot remove females and claim only males exist. As long as atheism exist, then god must exist, or atheism has no reason to exist.

Informative2016 #fundie atheistforums.org

[When confronted why the Abrahamic god is the one and only.]

Zeus is a MYTHOLOGICAL Greek God, Lets restate that, MYTHOLOGICAL. Hence the fact that it is a figment of our imagination, God is NOT. You have no proof to deny the fact that there is no God, I on the other hand have the Bible, a book which has been tried to be disproved but scholars are unable to because it is historically correct and that's why atheists who do real research decide to convert to Christianity because they see the wonders that God does.

PiousPaladin #fundie atheistforums.org

It depends on the level of scandal. An athiest who keeps his opinions to himself and does not tempt the others into heresy does not need to be executed, he must repent of course but he is only a danger to himself. It is private, it is personal.

A sodomite marriage however is something very public, it is a vile public display of blasphemy and must be struck down and prevented. Error has no rights, and if it cannot be corrected it must be cast aside into the trash.

Women who don't cover their hair can be dealt with, they can comply or remain unseen in society. We cannot ignore Protestants or sodomites who flaunt their sinfulness and lead others astray. The disobedient woman can be private, a Protestant Church by virtue of what it is cannot be.
It

BlindedWantsToSee #fundie atheistforums.org

What you are saying is valid, but I do ascribe, and assign, a purpose to my life. I mean I make the assumption that my life has a purpose, and I decide what the purpose is. To me, that purpose is to have fun, to enjoy my life, to feel good, etc; in short, to be happy. Then I notice that most other people also have as a goal to enjoy their lives and to be happy. Then I notice that I and most other people cannot be perfectly happy, for a myriad of reasons. This pattern of wanting happiness but not being able to keep it for very long must be caused by something.

Energy must be intelligent, else we could not have any degree of intelligence. Energy must be intelligent because everything is made of it and we see clear evidence of intelligence at work in the world and within ourselves. I cannot prove it to you, but I know this intelligence is good and evil at the same time (like having multiple personalities, a split mind). This is my way of making sense of the reality in which I exist. It does not have to be yours or anyone else's. I said this before, I am just sharing my interpretation of everything I have learned and experienced in my life because I think some people may find it useful.

KerimF #fundie atheistforums.org

As you said, Jesus message is surely not for all humans as it is not for other living things in the world.

As you know, even those who call themselves, for one reason or another, Christians (mainly the privileged ones) cannot, even if they want to, take seriously, speaking practically, most of what Jesus says (as written on the today's Gospel).

After all, those who have (are born with) a human living flesh only don't need, on these days, hearing any message from the Will/Power that forced them to exist in the time/space realm, we call life. They are already guided to play their various roles in life by instructions embedded in their living cells that are inherited while being evolved since millions of years and not necessarily on earth only. In other words, the continuity of life on earth and its progress is served by all living things, including most humans, the way they are instructed to do (instincts for example).

But it happens that not all humans on earth are born of flesh only. So living to serve the world, in wars (destroying) and peace (building), is not necessarily a priority to all humans. And it is natural that you, for example, are confused about the reason for which a person may live the unconditional love and care towards all others, friends and enemies. The reason, in this case, is surely not to avoid a punishment or to get a reward afterlife.

AAA #fundie atheistforums.org

Why does God create a genome that can't improve? Well if He created one that was in need of improving, then you would be asking why didn't He make it better? Why bother with a coding system? because the fact that there is an intelligible system that we can observe allows us to conclude the designer's existence. If God designed each being individually, then there would be no observable coding system that demonstrates an intelligent creator. Why does the genome degrade? It has amazing capacities to maintain DNA's original structure. There are many enzymes whose purpose is to fix mistakes and mutations. It degrades when we stray from natural environmental conditions. We eat carcinogenic foods and don't exercise. Proper nutrition and physical activity increases the transcription of many enzymes and helps our cells to take care of their genome.

BJHulk #fundie atheistforums.org

Everyone starts life out in a body with corrupt DNA that causes deception in our thoughts. Only a few people were chosen by God to get our DNA changed later on in life. He started changing my DNA in 1984 and finished changing them on June 14, 2008. This took many commands to confess and repent of my sins and other things he wanted me to do. The whole object of this was to get my body in total obedience to his thoughts and power of light energy, which is who God is.

Haipule #fundie atheistforums.org

Let me try this again. Ok, we have phases of the moon visible, night and day, to us except the new moon. We see a waning and waxing moon to full day and night. We only watch solar and lunar eclipses. Why don't we see at least some black dot, during the day, in the sky during a new moon?

Unless the moon is behind the sun. Well, if during a new moon, the moon is behind the sun, then how is the moon NOT orbiting the sun and not the earth?

Haipule #fundie atheistforums.org


Are you going to share with us anything of practical use you have learned in your studies?

No! It isn't time. The more I leap forward the farther behind I feel! I could explain a bunch of bullshit yet, my questions do not equate to answers. Give me a break! This is sheer frustration! I am surrounded by really smart good people. Today I learned that the energy passes through the electric material and is controlled through the dielectric material. Yet, the opposite is also true! SHIT! God damned baby steps "to boldly go where no man has gone before!"

When I do fly: I am highly motivated to do so. There are people depending on me to succeed! Yet, I will not fail! I am sooo close! Yet, so far away. It is solvable and I will solve it. It is simple in its complexity like fractal geometry. Yet, as simplex as simple observation. Yet, the more I understand the simplicity of nature, the more complex she becomes! I am being led to this end and why makes no sense now except personal. 

I'm on a fucking mission from God!

Heywood #fundie atheistforums.org

[But - and this is the point of this rambling pseudological screed - I think Heywood's incorrect about WHY we demand people not engage in certain behaviors: It's not because those behaviors are immoral, but because they cause harm.]


I said I can find no non-religious reason why homosexual sex should be immoral between consenting adults.....So I agree with you. However if God finds homosexual sex to be immoral and punishes homosexuals who engage in homosexual sex by sending them to hell, then homosexual sex does cause harm.

Now that being said, does that mean I find homosexual relationships to be equivalent to heterosexual relationships? I do not. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that they should be unless God deemed it so. If they are not equivalent then why should I view them as such?

Godschild #fundie atheistforums.org

Well it seems like it is time to give a little lesson here, one l thought someone would have known, but hey if you did then you could not have poked fun at Christianity.
7 in the scriptures represents completeness, it is connected with perfection it is a running theme throughout the scriptures. So how does this apply to this thread, well the natural rainbow has 7 visible colors this is the perfect bow God set in the sky as a covenant to remind us that there would never be another global flood.
Now the number 6 is a representative of incompleteness and associated with Satan, it is a number of unworthyness. Yep, you've guessed it the gay pride flag only has six of the seven colors and I'm sure l do not have to go into detail about what that means for the LGBT movement do l.

GC

professor #fundie atheistforums.org

If Hollywood's movies, TV shows and cartoons hadn't had the multitude of 923/ 239 numbers and dates (like Evan Almighty, who built an ark and had to be done by 9/22 mid day- which is 9/23 Israel time).

If there was no "Jade Helm" going on, if the FED had not set up a secondary headquarters in Chicago because of destruction in NY, and no underground bunkers set- up for the elete to hide out in.

If Sept 23 was not the grand jubilee #120 and one jubilee from Israel retaking Jerusalem (to the exact day).

If the False Prophet Francis was not coming to the US to meet with the AC and the UN exactly during this time.

If his Vatican Jesuit Astronomer Guy Consolmagno wasn't working on their "Lucifer project" seeking to contact UFOs (fallen angels)..... the list goes on and on.

I would not have looked at this time so intently even though the AC is here.

Pocaracas, I see Stimbo agrees with you questions.
You heathens and Randy are amazingly far in the dark. I would have to have a lobotomy. to join you guys.
Another date? If this one falls thru- it is 2 strikes and one to go.
How can a real detective not look for clues in the biggest game of a lifetime?

No Rapture?
God doesn't lie- it's in the book.
He also declares he will do nothing EXCEPT He reveals His secret plan to his servants the prophets.
And the prophets are saying it is here- GET IN THE ARK NOW. (Jesus is Ark 2).

My personal convictions?
Have been unchanged for 4 decades, other apparent times have come and gone, I keep working, giving, helping different ones, occupying until He comes.
My spiritual calling is night watchman. It is still night.

professor #fundie atheistforums.org

Brakeman, a long time ago Lucifer, (who was resplendent in beauty,covered with jewels and the music minister of Heaven) decided he was going to boot God off the throne and take over.
As Lucifer, he had never seen the severe side of God.
He made an irrevocable mutiny.

The only way for this monster to get back at God for expelling him, is to attack the thing closest and most dear to God-
creation and the pinnacle of that is you.
But God has been allowing him to continue on, because he is man's test.

Apparently God has a particular number of people to pass thru the turnstiles of life before He ends this age and begins the Millennium age of 1000 years without the devil.

At the end of that span of time, it says, the devil MUST be loosed from the pit (where he is to be stashed for that thousand years) -
for the purpose of testing those living in that awesome time (the Restoration of Al Things).

We are at the end of 6000 years from Adam- the coming sabbath "rest" of one thousand years will complete a "Week" of Millenniums and the realm of eternity will begin on a new earth.

I was asked about some proof of what have relayed here.
I realize youall reject supernatural / spiritual stuf, so the following is for anyone else who may be listening:
Satanists seem to only rail against Jesus Christ.

People involved in UFO abductions report in their encounters that the UFO entities rail and blaspheme ONLY Jesus Christ.
These entities are demons posing as aliens.

Their evil purpose is twofold- to give a naturalistic (aliens from space) explanation of the Catching Away (Rapture), and to strengthen the position of the antichrist as he becomes more powerful after the Rapture.

scoobysnack #fundie atheistforums.org

[You are equating thinking that it will rain, if you say it won't rain with negative thinking. That's more than a little silly.]


It's about focusing on what you want, not what you don't want. Whatever you focus on will manifest in some way or emotion, so it's best to stay positive, rather than focusing on what you don't want to influence your life. Kind of comes down to the confirmation bias.

Not that anyone will take this seriously, but I still remember the day my dad told me rake the leaves from the front lawn when I got home from school. I didn't want to, so started watching TV after school. I actually prayed which I don't normally do that I wouldn't have to rake the leaves. In the next 30 minutes the wind really picked up and blew all the leaves off the front lawn.

I'm not saying you can control the weather, but a positive attitude goes a long way to achieving your goals. You will be less likely to become discouraged and give up.

Statler Waldorf #fundie atheistforums.org

Haha wow you really are all over the place aren't you? Throwing around light theory mixed in with the Doctrines of Grace and John Calvin. This must be the ADHD method of discussion haha. Actually many Scientists are moving away from the Isotropic Light Model because it provides a lot of time problems for the big bang. I think the an-isotropic model is a more valid model. Which can be summed up by the Astrophysicist Robert Newton as follows...

"..using the observational definition of time, the speed of light depends on its direction of propagation relative to the observer. (Again, this is a property of spacetime, and not a property of light. All relativistic particles such as neutrinos would also move at different speeds in different directions.) Light travels at the canonical speed of 1,079 million km/hr only when moving tangentially relative to an observer. It moves at half the canonical value when moving directly away from the observer, and it moves infinitely fast when travelling directly toward the observer—travelling instantaneously from point A to point B."

So this would mean that whenever you observe something happen in Space it actually just happened, rather than 13 billion years ago or however many light-years the object is away. This model holds up in all the tests so it really is an exciting new approach.

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