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alex mtl #psychoceramics evcforum.net

The constructal theory of global optimization under local constraints explains in a simple manner the shapes that arise in nature.

I will use my own words to explain my speculation.

droom = Main highway of evolution.
joon = Exit out of the main highway of evolution, for a involutionary direction.
aodeen= Droom and joons altoghether, shape and direction of life in time.
gooje = First form of life perfectly unique.
kool = Combination of goojes.
lasco = Population of same gooje.
greu = Massive gooje potential.

An Aodeen according to "constructal theory" will take a shape and form just like any other creative meaning of the nature: A lightning, a Delta's river, blood vessels, the perfect shape of an egg, the cracks of a land without water, a marathon, statistics etc.

Example: A Lightning will start from a certain point in the sky. One main ramification will follow its way further than all the other ramifications. Sometimes this ramification will strike on land.

The very same way Aodeen started from a certain point in time. Droom
followed its way up to humanity leaving behind Joons and creating new Joons.
Goojes took the direction of Droom and Joons. What we find in Droom today is at most all the Goojes when life was created . It's probable to find the same Gooje in different Joons of the past.

Example. The reason why the skin colour and the nose of 50 cent are more "alike" with a gorilla's than G.W.Bush's skin colour and nose compared with a gorilla is because

- kool X1 took The Droom , then exit the Joon to Gorilla
- kool X2 took The Droom , then exit the Joon to Gorilla2
- kool X3 took The Droom , then exit the Joon to Gorilla3
- kool X4 took The Droom , continued the Droom to 50 Cent
- No other kool X took the Droom to G.W. Bush

Humanity is massive carrier of Goje. Even though G.W Bush does not have Kool X , he has Kool Y found in the chimpanzee. 50 Cent doesn't have Kool Y but what makes Humanity so special to be in Droom is the Greu.

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Bolder-dash #fundie evcforum.net

There is no such thing as beneficial or deleterious, it all depends on the environment. If someone is born with ALS or elephant man's disease, there may well be a time when humans consider this to be the most attractive type of male, because they look strong and able to withstand medium caliber bullets. So basically it impossible to know if a mutation is deleterious or beneficial, we have to wait and see what the environment does.

Maybe people will be attracted to Homo-Dumbo, because of their feelings towards Republicans.

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Herpeton #fundie evcforum.net

Science is the discovery and unpacking of creation via various learned and academic methodologies. The IDer doesn't give a fuck about what anyone theorizes or says as long as ultimate credit is assigned to Him as the source.

Have you ever been plargiarized, or stolen from, or had a patent or copyright infringement ?

ToE has plagiarized the source of creation and assigned it to an incorporeal entity (chance) as explained by them its Prophets and Priests. IOW, you guys have set up yourselves as God and are paying the traditional price of plagiarism: expulsion. The IDer has expelled you - thats the reason why you deny His reality.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

You can't HAVE a lithified sand dune for pete's sake. Every sand dune on the face of this earth is NOT lithified. What you are seeing in the rocks is the grains of sand that form sand dunes all collected in one place which causes them to lie the way they do in dunes because of how the grains got shaped, but there is no such thing as a LITHIFIED SAND DUNE. It is an impossibility. The only lithified beach you could possibly see is one that was rapidly filled in by new sediments to preserve its form. There is no such thing as a lithified beach on the surface of the earth. The footprints are of course footprints, rapidly filled in and preserved between tides during the Flood.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

There is very good reason to call the ToE "just a theory." All that has ever happened is the piling on of more and more credulity that "confirms" the original theory. There is no objective evidence for it. What evidence there is supports creationism just as well or better. You guys are caught in an amazing delusion and it's so convincing to you there's no way you'll even consider an argument against it. All you have to do is make up a NEW speculation to answer anything anyone says against the ToE. It's really an amazing exercise in self delusion. I really often wonder if it will ever be recognized or we'll have to wait until the Lord returns before any of the Toe Faithful will have the ability to see what's really been going on here.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

What's "making stuff up" is the ridiculous idea that it would take thousands of years to make a fossil. You don't know that, and there is evidence that it can happen in very short periods, for instance in caves. I'd have to dig it up but it involves the replacement of organic matter with mineral matter in a matter of years, not even hundreds let alone thousands.

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jbozz21 #fundie evcforum.net

When it comes to support for the Bible most people don't even believe in the Bible for physical, tangible or scientific reasons. We believe in the Bible by moral and spiritual experiences with the teachings of the Bible which can all be proven to be true by simple practice. Just like you can go outside and touch sand if you want to know that it is real not believe in someone else telling you it is real, you actually experience it using your senses. (ie. if you want to know if prayer works, you can actually pray and when you receive an answer then you have evidence that it actually works,and you don't stop there you keep trying the experiment watching it work over and over again. Plus you hear the experiences of many people all over the world who's results had been reproducible in your own life....etc...etc...) That is an experiment that is much more reliable to me in my opinion than someone taking DNA and putting through some chemicals and saying "yup, the apes are your cousins..." by some scientist whom I have no idea what motives lie behind their desires to disprove the claims of the Bible, nor whether they are acting out of bias or whether their claims are actually legitimate. Who's experiment's are not reproducible to me. It would be very very Hasty of me to discount the Bible because of someone elses claims especially not knowing their motives or verifying what they say. Which makes me wonder why so many of you are so Hasty to discount the Bible. If you have tested the bible on it's own claims about how to live your life then you would know that the principles work and bring greater happiness. No man-made system can nor does do that perfectly like the Bible can.

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WarriorArchangel #fundie evcforum.net

The Neaderthal (made by Lucifer) ended up in the Northern Israel wilderness circa seven hundred thousand years ago. The people in the wilderness that Cain said would kill him. But he was assured by HaShem, they would not harm him....
Cain (and his offpring) intebred with them instead. Producing the first modern humans, the Cro-Magnon....

Seth was born at that time, thirty thousand years after Cain, and inbred with his brother's offspring.

Making us a species of interbred/inbred hybrids.

HaShem has a 1500 cubic mile "KINGDOM" in creation. It dilates time. 30,000 years between Cain and Seth, might have been 30 minutes/seconds in the KINGDOM, dilating time....

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kofh2u #fundie evcforum.net

1) From Science and the Bible, both, we have evidence of three Racial Stocks emerging from Africa at exactly the same time that all other humanoids were becoming extinct. This is an important set of correspondences, that both religion and science agree on the basics:

A All other "humanoids" went extinct 40,000 years ago

B Modern Homo sapiens appeared 40,000 years ago in three flavors some call Hamites, Japhethians, and Shemians, while science referred to them as Caucasians, Negroids, and Mongolians.

C Modern studies of race by geneticists support that these early initial three racial stocks differentiated into seven genetically identifiable groups living today.

D Genetic evidence indicates that the original three racial stocks that lead to the seven kinds of people alive today are all related to just on man, presumably a Noah, who lived 40,000 years ago.

This is a lot of evidence in support of ancient reports that tell the same story.

2) Yes, Paleontology refers to the 22 humanoid creatures that they list as the 22 now extinct humans in our ascent to modern man as humans.
They were.
They were just not as evolved as we are today, but they walked upright, had their thumbs like our own, and every cell in their body had 23 Chromosomes, including one pair that was actually two sets fused together.

The ancient writings that report the "flood" out-of-Africa, occurring 40 thousand years ago, itemized and enumerated descriptions of the 22 humans which went extinct. In that listing many points are in line with our own discoveries and knowledge about those previous 22 links in our ascent.

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Arriba #fundie evcforum.net

First of all, there is no such thing as the scientific method.
If you are referring to hypothetico-deductive reasoning, that was invented by William Whewell, who is the same guy who decided upon the word “scientist.”

Additionally, I should like to point out that Einstein came up with his theory of relativity by imagining himself riding on a beam of light. This is not part and parcel of the so-called “scientific” method. In fact, it’s not empirical at all. Yet you choose to give science the credit. Why is that?

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

I thought it was animal matter that made petroleum, plant matter makes coal. I doubt it would take as long as you think it does. Hundreds, at most a couple thousand years should be sufficient but very possibly much less, even within a human lifetime with the application of enough pressure in airtight conditions. Either coal or petroleum. Of course you'd have to round up some dead animals, or just try plants. We aren't going to be able to make enough to get rich on but perhaps enough to demonstrate that you CAN make the stuff. The pre-Flood world was LOADED with vegetable matter, beyond our ability to imagine. Animals too. Extraordinary fecundity. Press some of whatever you can gather together between huge heavy rocks -- about a ton each. Pack a bunch of mud around your organic matter too. And wait a while. Shouldn't take anywhere near as long as you think. Give it ten years.

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OpticalIllusions #fundie evcforum.net

If the public votes to let creationism be taught, it should be taught. This is America. They should hire better teachers to teach it though, since it isn't fair if a teacher has bias to one theory or another. Existing teachers should be able to pass new tests on creationism to make sure they understand the whole truth. Science has evidence for creationism too. Parents know what science is better than their kids do, so what theories get taught should be based on democracy... at least in America. I know that if I got to decide what theories I was taught when I was a kid, I would have had no idea where to even start. I never would have learned any of the good theories, like gravity. That's why kids aren't allowed to vote.

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godsriddle #fundie evcforum.net

The entire structure for scientificating was built on a single assumption. This assumption was a modification to Aristotle's metaphysics which has its roots in Catholic friars such as Thomas and Scotus. In their efforts to adapt the pagan's system to the Bible, they invented new concepts such as being and essence. When Newton made his operational definition of time and space, he did so mathematically using the notion that the ESSENCE of substance is changeless. No one has ever detected any essence or being. In fact the visible properties of all matter are observed to continue to change throughout cosmic history. Even local clocks that transmitted their precision signals yesterday do not match with clock that emit their clocks frequencies today (the Pioneers).

The horror of empiricism is that they define almost all of their measuring units in a double circle. They actually believe that mass, energy and time exist even though they are utterly undetectable and can only be measured mathematically with other undetectable things circularly. Almost all of them were contrived using the assumption Peter predicted for the false teachers of the last days.

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godsriddle #fundie evcforum.net

Why would I want to make up things that are supported by simple, visible evidence? The light from billions of galaxies shows that atoms are always changing themselves relationally. Not a single ancient galaxies shines with the light frequencies of modern atoms and the differences are often associated with distance (the past).

Lets be brutally frank about Einstein's theory. He imagined that the vacuum of space time is bent by the Sun and the earth follows the local bent rails in the vacuum. No one has ever detected a shred of visible evidence for space time nor has anyone isolated or directly detected any gravity. Both Einstein and Newton believed that static matter does enormous amounts of work bending the path of the Earth without changing anything about itself. This is nothing but a mathematical version of perpetual motion.

It is much simpler to observe that atoms are always changing their light frequencies and the orbits in countless galaxies continue to accelerate out, billions of galaxies intrinsically growing into huge growth spirals, as the properties of all matter visibly change. What causes gravity has never been isolated but the fact that atoms keep on accelerating their light clocks as orbits also accelerate in defiance of every law of physics should tell us at least that gravity is not a perpetual motion effect.

The scientific emperor is naked.

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redstang281 #fundie evcforum.net

I'm sorry but I consider God more of an authority than yourself. God said sex is his gift to a married couple. For those who choose to abuse this gift there is std's. Before the fall of man there was no sin (or degeneration.) Animals didn't kill each other for food, there were no thorn bushes, and most likely no std's. This was something the bible says came about after man's sin. If you consider the fact that two people who withdraw from sexual attivity until marriage and then are faithful to one another it becomes apparent that my theory is true. As for a husband who gets aids from a cheating wife, maybe God is paying him back for some other sin he commited earlier. I believe it is intirely possible that we are not always punished emmidiatly after we sin. But that being said still I must erge you to understand this basic fundamentalist christian understanding that we are all sinners!! Even when we are born. The sin that Adam commited is carried down through all his generations. Therefor no one is innocent.

God did not create evil. Even though God has control over everything, God did not make lucifer's rebellion against him. It does not seem logical but that's because we can't understand it. God actions are not limited to our comprehension. A contradiction to us is comprehension to him.

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ICANT #fundie evcforum.net

Are you sure the church was wrong in their geocentric view?

As I understand it without dark energy the Copernican model is falsified.

That would leave the earth as the center of the universe as the simplest explanation for the practical and mathematical understanding of the universe.

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Buzsaw #fundie evcforum.net

[Then why have they [Prisoners in Guantanamo Bay] not been charged, tried, convicted & executed?]

IMO the answer to your question is that conviction would require death and to kill them would create such an outcry globally and in our own nation that Gitmo would have already been history. Gitmo was the only logical solution... hold them indefinitely, from effecting holocaustic Jehad, thereby denying them eventual American citizenship and rights.

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the overmind #fundie evcforum.net

the bible doesn't say that Noah, living hundreds of years old, brought every species on the ark with him. the bible says that Noah, living hundreds of years old, brought two animals of every 'KIND' on the ark with him. and as to the 'cubit', a cubit is length between elbow to fingertip. the bible says, "there were giants in the earth in those days" and there has been hundreds of giant bones found to reinforce this. so, their cubit was much larger than ours.

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Baldrick Cunningplan #fundie evcforum.net

The question isn't how I sleep at night. The question is how you don't choke to death, what with all the bullshit spewing from your mouth. The idea that "homophobia" (a fictitious word fabricated by liberals) is comparable to ethnic discrimination is utterly comical (although not in any way that makes me laugh), as is the idea that there's something wrong with the latter. I have the right to take away the happiness of homosexuals, just as I have the right to take away the happiness of any pedophile or any other breed of subhuman. The happiness of sick freaks must never come at the expense of the basic human sense of right and wrong. It certainly must not come at the expense of what is best for children. Anyone who supports abortion must hang from the neck till dead (it's genuinely nothing but baby-murdering...but I guess women don't have a problem with killing millions of babies as long as women get all the rights they want and don't have to experience any physical discomfort), but I can safely tell you that, were I not yet born, and I had sentience and the option of either being raised by homosexuals or being aborted, I would choose abortion without a second thought. If it's not wrong to discriminate against homosexuals then it can't possibly be wrong to elect the Grand Dragon of the KKK for president. How do I sleep at night? No. The question is how do YOU sleep at night?

And yes, I know that I supposedly supported abortion just now after saying anyone who does must die, but I already know that, so don't be a smartass. And I would be aborting myself, not anyone else.

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John10:10 #fundie evcforum.net

I see a theory for evolution, but I do not see the truth for evolution that has been "obtained and tested."

If elements that were not there before the unraium {sic} atom was split appear after the uranium atom was split, and these elements talk, quack, and are chemically the same as other elements that appear in nature, then most scientists see the evidence for nuclear fission beyond any reasonable doubt.

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WS-JW #fundie evcforum.net

IP Logged
One thing i've not heard an answer to by evolution is where the food came from? Every creature needs food to finance it's energy usages. We humans have all the "keys" to open up all the different foods we eat and get the calories out. Thats how it works, on a lock/key kind of mechanism because burning the food won't get the calories out. how did all this food suddenly grow? This is a strong argument for design. These things need to be designed and won't arise by chance without a guiding hand over the lot. Isn't it also funny how alot of people enjoy eating food as God made a potentially annoying task of supplying ourselves energy and made it enjoyable?

answers on the evolution point of view would be appriecieated.

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IamJoseph #fundie evcforum.net

Since a gene habours variant data, each offspring being different, it inclines not with ToE but with genesis. Example. A child is said to be the offspring of its parents; but ToE is saying, a child is the offspring of a retro virus data lodged in a bone marror of another life form, but takes turns and twists and then becomes the parent - after millions of years - and never mind how that retro virus even emerged in the first place on its own.

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ChristianJuggalo #fundie evcforum.net

Well, the "Big Bang Theory" goes against therodynamics. And yes, I am illiterate when it comes to science. But, I know a theory doesn't stand up to laws or facts. And this one, breaks one of those laws (therodynamics) I don't know much about theordynamics but, I have seen information that says the "Big Bang" goes against it.

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WS-JW #fundie evcforum.net

You'll notice that species adapt to their environment after awhile and other sorts of things from the genetic code they have built in them. In the garden of eden, do you think there were 2 million? of course not. Tazmanian devil won't accept that Biblical account of course. As can't see it. But can see earth billions of years ago apparently and watched the first primitive cell arise and evolve. Well of course he didn't. He's just been told this false theory at school. 2 dimensonal earth? does he know God does thing in 3 dimensions? Your genetic code proves that. Did he tell you that under the bottom skin of a snake there are tiny tiny legs? written up in it's genetic code, that do no good to the snake? But why? natural selection some how thinks and keeps the good parts and disregards the bad parts? some unexplainable evolution? or the fact that when God told the devil in the form of snake that he would crawl on his belly he lost his legs? Believe God, not Tazmanian devil, for the Devil has no mercy on your uneducated soul.

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Cold Foreign Object #fundie evcforum.net

Some of you may or may not know that I am writing a rather lengthy paper refuting the Theory of Evolution. All is going extremely well. The reason it is taking me much longer than I anticipated is the fact that it took me a year just to learn how to write. But another reason of delay is that during my research I have literally stumbled upon the most devasting evidence and accompanying argument that will destroy the Theory of Evolution. I had the classic: Eureka! I-Have- Found-It moment. It altered the entire vision and structure of my then existing paper. I had to "start over" so to speak and place this new and original evidence at the center as to which the "new" paper now revolves around.

I also want to report that my view has changed concerning microevolution. Before, like most Creationists, I robotically accepted the fact of microevolution. Now that I have personally researched the claim I have come to the unavoidable conclusion that microevolution is a fallacy at best, maybe even a misunderstanding among Creationists, but no such thing as microevolution has occurred on this planet or in nature.

Make no mistake, IF microevolution has occurred then Creationism is falsified. There is no way around it. But the facts and evidence will show that microevolution has not occurred: Creationism is true.

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WS-JW #fundie evcforum.net

Evolution hasn't been proven at all. Anyone who knows quantum theory knows it's impossible. Things go in leaps, theres no gradual move into another species. people who learn this evolution fairy tale in school hanve to unlearn it when they come to do quantum theory. Then they realise that 2 + 2 does not equal 5.

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Herepton #fundie evcforum.net

[The Theory of Evolution stems from science.]

Only Darwinists believe this. The evidence says the Emperor has no clothes. The textual evidence of the Bible says Darwinian macroevolution beliefs are a penalty from God for denying Him Creator status. The penalty is corroborated by the fact that the ***reason for being*** evidence/intermediacy is entirely missing; IC is a scientific fact; fossil record shows zero signs of species transitioning. These are death blows in the eyes of any non-prejudicial observer. The fact that Darwinism thrives despite its nudity is explained by the penalty.

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nemesis juggernaut #fundie evcforum.net

The spin of the ACLU is that they are a non-partisan organization. This is the portrayal they want the average American to see and believe. Of course, that's beyond ridiculous as evidenced by their extreme slant to partisan belief. [...] Interestingly enough they have tried to stymie every Supreme Court Justice who didn't conform to their brand of politics. But wait.... I thought they are non-partisan? I must have forgotten that oft-repeated mantra. Its just so hard to think of them as being impartial when their record is so obviously to advance an agenda. They regularly take on cases that not only defend anti-American terrorism, but they also aide and abet them. They take on cases that support extreme patronage where an offender has been clearly indicted for a crime. Being the spin doctors they are they find ways to paint a picture that doesn't exist to make it sound as if there are nefarious purposes at hand. They will hold somebody up in the spotlight in order to make the defendant seem like a Robin Hood, launching their iconic status in order to subvert the status quo. They defend child pornographers and institutions who support crimes against children. They defend live sex acts irrespective of where and when. They have an unwaivering support of all forms of abortion, even partial birth abortion, and have the gall to now call it "reproductive freedom." They take on religious groups that want to display Nativity scenes, as if displaying baby Jesus is the crime of all crimes. They hate the boyscouts of America for crying out loud. They want all borders to be open, seemingly incapable of understanding the implications that would directly affect them. So on, and so on.

[...]

While its true that the ACLU takes on certain cases, its little more than social pittance, and they don't have warmhearted motives for doing it. They take on these cases to keep up the appearance of non-partisanship. But their defense of such cases is usually geared towards some individualistic right they have manifested in their minds.

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Casey Powell #fundie evcforum.net

People still harp on the 1988 C-14 Dating of the Shroud of Turin that dated back to they "think" 1200 A.D. (only skeptics though), or perhaps older to the 1st century A.D. But in 1995, this was retested and determined to be in the 1st century, around the time of Jesus. Likely authentic. We also have the box of James which is also an Authentic find and displays Jesus's name (James the brother of Jesus himself). And Jesus's cross has also been uncovered. We have also determined that the Garden of Eden has been located.

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Apolo #fundie evcforum.net

Come on people. Im sorry, but I dont have enough faith to be an atheist. " For years the world orbited around, until struck by an asteroid, then broke art, reformed, and created what we now call "Earth” I mean seriously, there is more evidence that the Cave Men existed, than any type of stellar explosion that created us humans. Why didnt other animals evolve? People say they have, just before our time, but their were other people back when the dinos and older creatures where around, their pictures would have shown of how animals changed. Why do we have emotions, if there isnt a God? Animals feel fear, happiness, anger, and protectiveness, sometimes sorrow. But why do we feel remorse, anxiety, or true love animals dont get crushes. They get horny, but don’t fall in love. If the Big Bang only took a couple of thousand years, why has our Earth been around for millions and millions and nothing happened? Why are our bodies so perfect in the way they are, and there isnt one single hole in the Bible, yet many in science. I have come to believe my younger brother, more so than an evolutionist. Not trying to be crude, but think about it. If a Christian is wrong, o-well, we all die anyways. But if a non-believer is wrong, I mean that would suck. An eternity away from God and Heaven, stuck it the Lake of Fire with other no-Christians and demons. Your way will get you nowhere, you know there is a God, let Him be you God. I don’t care what you think of me for this, I know God is real, and I know where Im going when I die 110% Do you?

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geatz #fundie evcforum.net

I hate that evolutionists are pushing evolution as a fact simply because they don't want to believe in something higher than themselves. It has prevented me from validifying their scientific discoveries because I believe there is alterior motive. Arguing evolution vesus ID is like me arguing reality with my nintendo. Who am I to argue a billion years of evolution didn't occur in a single day when I am restricted by time and he is not. You should be forming mathematical proofs to prove that 0=1 instead of arguing with christians, whom are going to believe in creation whether evolution is fact or not. Why not try arguing why our ancestors evolved instead of arguing if they evolved. The fact that so many evolutionists are still arguing "if" leads me to believe you aren't so confident in your findings.

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Muhd #fundie evcforum.net

I will say that evolution and other naturalistic theories are perpetuated in an effort to remove God out of the picture. It saddens me when Christians show support for this kind of godless science.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

It was driving me crazy in the 60s already, long before I had a name for it, and it wasn't about nigger, wop and kiKe. It was an aggressive hate war on the white race as the cancer of the world, on conservatives, who we all know are nothing but a bunch of Hitlers and jingoistic idiots; on America, which is really only an evil imperialist monster. Those who agree with such sentiments of course object to conservatives daring to characterize them as Thought Control or anything pejorative. It was militant in-your-face black activism, in some cases out and out thuggery (it was a murder that woke up David Horowitz). It was militant feminism, one group cheerily named The Society for Cutting Up Men, characterized by sneering contempt for any demented woman who liked the idea of marriage and family as a career, or horror of horrors identified herself as a "housewife." It was militant gay rights. I remember attending a "talk" with my ex in which the speaker got up and berated the assembled group for any thought that homosexuality might be an aberration, and accused all assembled of REALLY being homosexual but denying it. It was an abusive speech.

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nemesis juggernaut #fundie evcforum.net

The begging question is how nature was able to simultaneously, or nearly simulatnaeously, evolve a male with fully operational sex organs, evolve a female counterpart with fully operation sex organs that just so happen to be perfectly compatible, and be placed within the same locality that they could find one another, and for nature to give them the understanding that they must mate in order to create progeny, all in one felled swoop?

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ptolemy #fundie evcforum.net

Which way is simpler, to use the Bible as the foundation of truth, and notice that the universe fits what it says, or invent a plethora of undetectable, mathematical things like "empty space stretches the light passing though it" to protect our arche [foundational assumption about the nature of matter] that matter (atoms) cannot change-together - as a relationship?

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buzsaw #fundie evcforum.net

If you go into the archives, you will see that my hypothesis did not have God turning all dinos into snakes. Rather it has the reproductive genes of the dinos living at the time of the fall being transformed via the curse to cause all the offspring of the then living dinos to be born as belly crawlers.
Furthermore I have consistently alleged that the likely the parent dinos lived all the way up until the flood which would have been some 1500 years or so. The atmospheric pre flood chemical makeup, et al, imo, could translate hundreds of years into millions of dating years as per the chemical makeup of the environment today. If man lived around a thousand years, it is feasible that the dinos could have lived until the flood caused their extinction, only the young offspring belly crawlers being taken in the ark.

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Jesus saves -Ben #fundie evcforum.net

Hinduism isn't the oldest religion. That is contrary to scripture. Hinduism never existed before the flood. Once the ark landed on Mount Ararat in Turkey, They settled there for a while. Once Noah died, they went off in different directions and founded our planet's oldest empires: Egypt, Greece, and China. Hinduism is mainly along the way to china (In India, Mongolia etc.) I believe hinduism was developed along the way to China's founding place. And of course Noah Was somewhat a jew.

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R. Cuaresma #fundie evcforum.net

The Philippine Deep and Bermuda Triangle are actually the secret spiritual passages going to the center of the Earth – to the Spiritual World of Normosom. It is not easy to believe and recognize this claim as a fact because science tells us that the Earth’s core is made up of molten rocks and iron which constantly boiling. But science is limited only to the observable material things. It can not scope on the spiritual side. That is why, it is very impossible for science to believe that man has spirit, or that God really exists. But if you believe that nothing is impossible to God, then the truth is already presented to you.

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inkorrekt #racist evcforum.net

Yes, now you can blame the Christians for the Holy war, Crusades. Of course, those who carried this out did in the name of Christianity and they were not even christians. Hitler is also described as a Christian. If he were a Christian, why would he execute Bon hoefer, a Christian minister who opposed Hitler? Hitler was an atheist and he strongly believed in Evolution ( Aryans were the Superior race). He also hated Christians and Jews.

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Antoiniette #fundie evcforum.net

BUT Noah DID provide Space for land animal such as stegasaurus etc..
I am guessing, that what happened to the Loch Ness Monsters(Yes there is a pack) is that they were swimming in a pack and as the Flood waters came down, they got trapped in the lake, and they would be trapped in a "aquariam"
After the flood (Before the flood there had never been any rain, hence why there was a global flood.)
The rest of the land animals (including the dinosaurs) would have been able to survive. I am SURE that back then all the lands were all joined, and thus it would be able to spread. But then came the Ice age. (There was Only ONE ice age) I mean where was the water ment to go. God gave the animals at least 2 hundred years. Then came the ice age.
Remember the ice age didn't cover the whole earth, there were places that were not effected like america.
There is countless evidence that Dinosaurs live on.
Most people, are to lazy or silly, to gather all the info and base their own belief's. They just take the word of the Scientists.

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Thenders #fundie evcforum.net

Evolutionists refuse to involve creationism into science. Then why is B.C (before Christ) used to describe a period of time [yom]? Isn't time a dimension therefore making it scientific theory?

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The Golfer #fundie evcforum.net

Its an incredibly hard yet perhaps the old ways of stoning were not all that bad of a way to keep the kids like respectful. I suspect that the only reason stonings were written in the old testament bible so parents were like respected. The stonings were done by your peers, like your son would have to stone one his best friends to death for being like disrespectful to his parents. He would likely be quite respectful no doubt after partaking in such a stoning of one of his best friends. It sounds cruel but actually the father wouldn't likely be doing the stoning.

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The Golfer #fundie evcforum.net

When JFK died the newspapers it says said the men were concerned about Russia, while the ladies were concerned about Jackie. Perhaps the ladies really should not be allowed to vote. But sadly as it be they have this right and likely basing their vote off emotions, etc [...]

The woman brain needs to ask for directions, they are not able to process as well as the man (Do you like to ask for directions?) If so your likely a woman, etc... The estrogen affected how the brain developed. I'm suspecting its not just the physical edge but this mental edge why the woman needs the man to be the head of the house, but the man needs the womans to be on the same team, etc...

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alphablu82 #fundie evcforum.net

God gave people what we need to survive. Many evolutionists argue that fish evolved into humans. How did they have the correct DNA sequences to develop back bones and limbs? A fish certainly does not have any of these things.
It is my belief that God gave humans as well as animals what they needed in order to survive. What looks like speciation is actually many recessive genes that have all came out together. To add to this dilemma there are different regions to the world. Naturally people in Africa are going to look different from those in Sweden. God gave humans the ability to adapt. Biological Evolution did not.
There have been fossils of humans found in Africa that have been said to have different jaw structures. First African Americans have differently shaped jaws than those of Americans, second as a skull ages the top bone of the jaw actually receeds and last undergoing thousands of years as a fossil the bones of the body undergo major changes caused by the pressure of the earth.

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Lysimachus #fundie evcforum.net

You're really out to destroy creation, when you know very well that it is gaining the edge every day as we approach the endtimes.

Evolution will be dead within the next 10 years. That I am certain of. Mark my words.

The evidence is slowly surfacing, and pretty soon all evolutionists will have to eat humble pie.

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The Golfer #fundie evcforum.net

One reason men are the head of the home is the mood related problems some woman are known to experience at their time of the month. As women get older they experience menopause mood problems due to hormone related problems.
If a woman has an historectomy is it not much harder to control mood related problems even with hormonal medication. I personally would not want a woman pastor cause of the mood of the woman might flip over something trivial. But I'll grant you that its never trivial from a moody womans point of view.

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Herepton #fundie evcforum.net

The crust of the Earth shows ZERO signs of species transitioning, plus the massive gaps has no effect on evolutionary dogma. IOW, lack of evidence does not get in the way.

Transitional evidence is the reason for being of Darwinian evolution. There is none. Evolution proceeds unimpeded = Bible tells us why.

Did you know Eugene Dubois and the entire Darwinian scientific establishment accepted a few scraps of whatever dug out of the ground by prison inmates as the decisive evidence FOR human evolution ?

The most extraordinary claim of all time (actually 1 of 2) decided by a few obscure scraps. This shows what hard up frauds these lunk heads were desparately trying to validate atheist worldview.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

[Inadvertantly proving every religion ever.]

The existence of millions of believers ought to testify to the actual existence of Jesus Christ. None of the other Messiah claimants acquired such a following. I don't know of one instance of people following someone who didn't exist, do you?

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bluefish001 #fundie evcforum.net

i don't want to send hours learn it... but i want to know the so called facts...
i know to know why ppl belive in evolution...

evolution was started by a man who Married his cousin and had over 5 kids...

creation was started by a God that gave his son to die for men and lived a Perfect life

study on how close we are to Monkey ... prove that 1 type of Monkey had 98% in common wit humans

"we are 98% monkey and 2% human" lol

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Carico #fundie evcforum.net

Are you saying that the apes in the jungles are not apes? What are you calling them? Therefore, when you claim that humans can breed with apes, you are also including the beasts in the jungle unless you are saying they are not apes. Therefore, you cannot claim that humans can breed with apes unless you change the name of the beasts in the jungle to a different name which then defeats the whole point of evolution by saying that humans came from apes. But again, this kind of contradiction and irrationality is what happens when people try to make one species into another.

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Carico #fundie evcforum.net

Mutations are merely aberrations that cause damage to existing cells. Otherwise, again, scientists would simply leave cancer cells alone to mutate into helathy ones, but they don't. Therefore, again, evolution is a figment of the imaginations of men which many, many scientists are now claiming. You can find them all over the web.

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Carico #fundie evcforum.net

Evolutionists are also asking us to believe the an ape and a "common ancestor" mated to produce a mutant who then found another mutant with the exact same mutation and they bred an offspring who found another mutant who then bred offspring with another mutant whose genes had added another superior trait by accident, and they found another mutant to breed with who also had another superior gene added to his DNA and on and on. This is not only astronomical, but completely bizarre as well. And all of this to deny that God exists!

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buzsaw #fundie evcforum.net

[Re: use of the terms "Xian" & "Xmas"]

Would nihilists have any problem being called Xhilists or the Buddhists Xhidists, the agnostics, Xnostics, et al? Is this a way of demeaning and insulting over 50% of Americans whose religion is Christianity? Do any other Christians besides me here find it offensive to be called Xians or am I being hypersensitive?

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Carico #fundie evcforum.net

And what constitutes who is in which kingdom? If I have a degree in science and i say that humans and animals are in the same kingdom because they have certain characteristics in common, then poepl would simply accept whatever I say. Humans and plants have certain characteristics in common; we both need food, water, mate, and grow. But does that make us plants? Sorry but calling a human an animal doesn't make him one nor does it make himcapable of being the descendant of an animal or breeding one.

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Herepton #fundie evcforum.net

'[The Theory of Evolution stems from science.']

Only Darwinists believe this. The evidence says the Emperor has no clothes. The textual evidence of the Bible says Darwinian macroevolution beliefs are a penalty from God for denying Him Creator status. The penalty is corroborated by the fact that the ***reason for being*** evidence/intermediacy is entirely missing; IC is a scientific fact; fossil record shows zero signs of species transitioning. These are death blows in the eyes of any non-prejudicial observer. The fact that Darwinism thrives despite its nudity is explained by the penalty.

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Mirabile Auditu #fundie evcforum.net

IF "it doesn't matter how it came about," then WHY do "EVOLUTIONISTS" (it seems that some of your friends can't countenance being called "Darwinists" for some strange reason, though many of them have no problem hatefully attacking others with pejoratives far worse, e.g. "fundies," and bible thumpers," and "flat earthers" to name but a few) almost universally argue pure naturalistim, devoid of "religious myths"? Are they wrong, or are you? While it is a simple matter for "EVOLUTIONISTS" to mock and ridicule the abject stupidity of "fundies," whether or not they even have a religion, it is inexcusable for practitioners of what is supposed to be PURE and OBJECTIVE "SCIENCE" to be so inconsistent.

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evolutionimpaired #fundie evcforum.net

As a gift, I'll give you something you can use as evolution evidence from the Bible (though it wasn't random) that gives the link between snakes, lizards and birds. You may already know this but the snake that was possesed by the devil used to have feathers and lost them as well as its legs, leaving the vestigial legs on boas and anacondas as remains. Strange that those 3 animals are related by science as well. That actually works to sway the most stubborn Christian to believe in a small part of what you believe.

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randman #fundie evcforum.net

Also, on the issue of giants, there is quite a lot of evidence giants did exist. Perhaps you are just unaware of the evidence?

Evos call them more primitive hominids, but they have been found with tools fitted to their size so they seem to just be a giant form of "people" in layman's terms.

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Herepton #fundie evcforum.net

The facts of history confirms the Biblical scenario and falsifies the Evolutionary scenario based on the massive amount of worldwide physical evidence proving ancient men possessed ultra-intelligence and capabilities surpassing our own today. They knew the shape and EXACT dimensions of the Earth, how to locate and align any position with true polar north, were advanced mathematicians who employed pi in their geometrical and trigonometrical abilities, and could extract out of quarry, transport, cut with optical precision, dress, and lift blocks weighing up to 70 to 400 tons apiece without cranes or any modern equipment.

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igor the hero #fundie evcforum.net

Evolution can only occur so often though. It must occur in multiple organisms at once and its chances for succeeding become smaller everytime.1 cell to copy 1:1 probability of success. 2 celled organism to copy 1:2 chance of success,so on and so forth. You yourself just said this is just a bunch of chemicals and only self-replicates. Eventually it will reach where it needs to breathe and eat. When it does, it will have no prior info about these things. It needs to learn how to eat, what to eat, how to breathe, etc. Seeing as how single-celled organisms crawled out of the sea we do not yet have to worry about dehydration.

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christ fanatic #fundie evcforum.net

Evolution is a framework in which all evidence is interpreted (as is creationism) and if there is evidence that does not fit into the model, then the model must be modified or rejected. In relation to evolution, there has to be an explanation of how the magnetic fields of the planets have lasted for billins of years. This where the dynamo (and Mercury) come in. Mercury is an odd planet, in that it has a magnetic field where the dynamo theory says it shouldn't. What I'am asking is if I've done my homework right, and if not, explain how evolution does account for the magnetic field of Mercury.

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Springer #fundie evcforum.net

It's no use. Evolutionists conveniently divorce themselves from explanations of abiogenesis because they have absolutely no explanation of how it is possible. To simply state that it's not part of evolutionary theory is a cop-out.
The simplest concievable form of life as we know it would require at least one strand of DNA or RNA. Simply put, the probability of such a complex molecule randomly coming together is nill. Even if by some freakish event such a spontaneous arrangement were accomplished, it would require the intricate protein/lipid structure of a cell to survive and reproduce.
To base an entire theory on such an enormously improbable event is ludicrous. Science follows laws of probability.

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Springer #fundie evcforum.net

Contrary to popular belief, evolutionists don't have a corner on scientific objectivity. I've found through personal experience that when an evolutionist gets backed into the wall he relies on arrogant condescending rhetoric. From my observations, creationists are more prone to stick to the objective facts.

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GodDoesntBelieveInAthiest #fundie evcforum.net

MORALS:
April 1999- Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold walk into a high school in Jefferson County, Colorado. One of them happened to be wearing a t-shirt with the words written "survival of the fittest"..
EXPLANATION: Not only were these boys strong believers in evolution but they also were also strong believers in Nazism(see Hitler}Now you probably are saying that evolution was not to completely blame for the incident at Columbine. And you’re right. But that still does not deny the fact that over the years these 2 kids were influenced by the doctrine of evolution to the point where they took it VERY SERIOUSLY. Some people called them extremists. But were they? If you don't kill off the weaker kind as you believe in the foundations of evolution. aren’t you a hypocrite?

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Eledhan #fundie evcforum.net

And I also cannot believe that the link posted showing the reptile-to-bird transitions actually included Archaeopterix (sp?). That was proven false years ago!!! Some Chinese farmer dug up a fossil and glued a piece onto it and sold it to National Geographic for thousands of dollars!!! National Geographic was so excited about the possibility of finding a rare transitional form (which should not be rare if evolution is true) that they bought into a fake. They had to report it was a fake in a later article stating that they had been duped. How do we know that if Archaeopterix is the only one that people have lied to the public about?

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LA Buck #fundie evcforum.net

Because The Big Bang Theory cannot be tested it must be classified as a theory.
Because it is a theory based on the origin of the universe is must be a religion.
Because it is a religion, if you believe it, you have faith in it.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

but the arrogance is on the side of those who refuse to acknowledge God's own communication and prefer their own interpretation of His universe over what He actually said in actual words. This is what science is doing. It comes up with views of the universe that contradict God's written word, and then some dare to claim that that view IS God's word, which cannot be the case if it contradicts what He actually said through His prophets. I DO have the right to say what God Himself has said, because He said it, it's written, it is unambiguous, and I can point to it and quote it. It is my YEC premise, [...] that God's WRITTEN WORD trumps science if science contradicts it.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

No, I haven't been to the Southwest though I really want to see it, so you can disqualify my answer on that basis. It is, however, pictures of the formations of the Southwest that convince me the most of the Flood apart from the Bible. The stacked strata, so obviously rapidly formed by water, the fact that all the formations are shapes of stacked strata exposed by what looks like massive water erosion, and of course the incredibly copious fossil contents.

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CreationWise #fundie evcforum.net

scientists tested the Grand canyon floor and found out it was 3.5 billion years old. but then they tested the top of the grandcanyon and they found out it was 45 Billion years old. Also, three layers of the canyon floor had been on the top. A rockslide threw it down. And you talk about us christians not checking our sources.

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hoaryhead #fundie evcforum.net

Tom Brokaw, anchorman for NBC News, showed a film of the shoreline of the ocean etched into the Himalayas about 10,000 feet above sea level, in about 1995.
The news media is pro-Atheism, and so, this has been suppressed, and never repeated or enlarged upon.

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Rex Downie #fundie evcforum.net

Modern science uses the phoney idea of neutrality of science as a shield against the assertion that they are pushing an essenially religious notion of creation in the big bang theories. Thus we are now spending billions of dollars in the religious quest for life "out there" in space, which, I am sure produces howls of laughter from the Throne of HEaven.I hope and pray that scientists get enough integrity and honeesty going to admit the truth - that which they are fond of searching for, is that they, too are on a religious quest for origins.

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hoaryhead #fundie evcforum.net

For most of the history of the United States, it has been universally agreed that the three basic sciences are:
Reading, Riting, and Rithmatic.
This has been taught in grade school, high school, and universities.

On the other hand, Evolution is the most speculative theory every devised.
Every new book on the subject increases the age of the earth by one, or more, million years. Very instable subject, indeed.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

I didn't become a believer in YEC until I'd been a Christian for some years and read some of the creationists.

The childish things *I* put away were atheism and the ToE.

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Tal #fundie evcforum.net

The bottom line is, the theory of evolution will remain a theory until empircal data is obtained that proves that dogs can produce non-dogs and/or dogs came from rocks 4.6 billion years ago.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

It is ALL interpretation. Don't you see that? Creationists are just as good at coming up with contrary interpretations of any of it given enough experience with the material. There is no PROOF, don't you see? No evidence, no testability, no falsifiability, it's all INTERPRETATION, all PLAUSIBILITIES against PLAUSIBILITIES. Find all the similarities you want they are JUST AS WELL explained in terms of design factors, or, in the case of apparent shared genetic anomalities or mistakes, by the effects of the Fall on all life. Our genes are broken because of the Fall. There is NO COMPELLING REASON to explain any of it in terms of descent.

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Tal #fundie evcforum.net

Um...we live in 2005 AD. 2005 years ago Jesus was born. Our whole calander is based on him?

Also, Jesus had a lot of enemies that were still alive when the gospels were written. As likely as it is that those who were actively trying to eradicate Christianity could have simply written a rebuttal to the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, no such rebuttal writings exist. This seems to suggest that the gospel accounts were considered to be factual. The onus seems to be not on me to produce more documentation of his existance, but on you to prove he didn't.

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loko #fundie evcforum.net

all presidents and powerful people are occultists, but they fulfil different roles, as christians or muslims etc. They need the world to believe that diversity of religions make conflicts, to establish a one world religion under the rule of the biblical antichrist and prosecute the loyal christians saying they are "closed minded" and have "old patterns of thought" and are "keeping the earth to evolve". This is the kingdom of the beast prophesied in matthew 24 and revelation 13, that the churches don´t want you to know.

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Mr. Creationist #fundie evcforum.net

You evolutionists need to realize if you haven't already(you probably have) that we are dealing with the most fundamental of all subjects to be discussed and debated, because who is right changes everything. And for us creationists, well, we don't have to worry about where we will go when we die, evolutionists on the other hand are making a huge gamble on their lives, cause the odds are stacked up against their theory. If we were created, then we were created, there is no probability involved there, it is far more likely that we were created then if we evolved from the Big-Bang. We can all agree that the chances of us evolving without God are very slim, it's like trying to pull out the numbers 1 through 1,000 randomly from a jar without skipping a number or getting one out of order. Those are the odds that you are basing your eternal existence on. The fossil record does not show evolution, math does not show evolution, all of creation in it's designed appearance points toward a Designer! You should at least consider the possibility of God being behind everything, rather than risk eternity in punishment for your willful choice of evolution. I'm not saying to believe in God, but to just set your heart to searching for Him.

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Faith #fundie evcforum.net

I've come to understand that many things happened to the earth at the Fall, having to do with God's cursing it for our sake, and that includes the bombardment by meteors that is evident on the moon but not evident on earth -- probably because the Flood erased the craters (I had thought that bombardment must have occurred during the Flood but I believe now it was part of the cursing of the creation with the Fall), and this cursing also includes the "ice age" which explains the development of the wooly mammoth too, as well as that beast's huge tusks and the sabre-toothed tiger and the like for the purpose of defense or killing prey.

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JohnDM #fundie evcforum.net

And it was some 3.68 years earlier, was on May 16th 1983, that I had my first and only open-eye Biblical like apparition, when at 2:30am I was woken up whilst sleeping next to my sleeping wife and looked towards the windows, when the curtains ‘disappeared’ and in their place was a large white screen. Then, the metaphysical ‘movie’ first showed me a wilderness location, and temporary accommodation units of a rather different type, in that each unit consisted of four interlocking circular and tents standing on a 10 x 10 metre square base. I knew it was exactly 10 metres because a ‘voice’ spoke into my mind. The second part of the apparition was seeing the Adversary himself face to face and eyeball to eye ball. The appartion showed me clearly that the Devil also resides in Satan for they are as One. So to the metaphysical, the Adversary, seems to like the two common denominators 155 and 508. And Satan at 155 x the Devil 508 and /2,000 is 39.37 and 39.37 inches is one metre, (unless one likes the square root of 1550 at 39.37003937 inches). And the reciprocal of 508 x 20,000 is 39.370078 inches. And there are 508 days from September 11, 2001 to the destruction of Shuttle Columbia on February 1, 2003. Thus the New World Order Elite re-established during the French Revolution a former cubit they termed a metre at 39.37 inches.

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simple #fundie evcforum.net

It is no fairy tale that the bible tells us these things. He planted a garden, and in days, it was grown. It is not possible in this physical world now. Any non atheist scientist out there must know this. To deny the world of spiritual experience, and the bible, only because we believe that only this physical existed, because we can see nothing else, is to confine oneself to the 'box' of physical only. Most people on earth have always known there is more.
Since it may be ignored, but not disproved, you may believe what you want. But don't try to lay some trip on me, where anything else but the puny physical only never existed, or ever will. No one argues that it now is all man has. It is real and great. But it is a small part of the big picture, and the spiritual is not subject to mere physical only tests, restrictions, principles, or laws.
The flood involved more than the physical, the garden did as well, and heaven will too. Trying to stick it all in the box is like trying to get the ocean in a spoon.

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MrSmee #fundie evcforum.net

......evolution cannot be used to explain bodily symmetry for one simple reason...In the evolution theory, all things in nature are supposed to be in balance...equal spacing of matter...so it really isn't a fair question that evolution can answer because we know all matter in the universe is not in balance and or equally spaced...trying to use evolution theory as a unit of measure to weigh an argument against or for, is like trying to measure in centimeters with an imperial ruler.

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John Paul #fundie evcforum.net

And yes I consider bacteria and trees to be intelligent agents. You may not understand their intelligence but that does not mean it doesn't exist.

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Philip #fundie evcforum.net

On the other hand, small revivals occur in some 3rd world countries like the notoriously apostate country of Haiti: the poor Voodoo-ists (Devil worshippers) command their children to go to Christian schools (100%) and get saved. Every state-run and private school in Haiti performs daily evangelical praying and singing as per Christ's teachings and the gospel. The T[heory]o[f]E[volution] is fully discarded from all K1-12th grade curriculums. Thus, these poor wretches have not entirely discarded Christ's teachings nor gospel.

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Flamingo Chavez #fundie evcforum.net

The truth is, I do not entirely understand that [killing an innocent man for our crimes] either (but I never claimed that my beliefs were philosophicly justifiable) I am just gratefull that it is true.

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jester461 #fundie evcforum.net

And if we share this same common genetic make up as other creatures, isn't at all possible that this 'genetic material' is the 'dust' referenced to in the bible? Now I know you will automatically disregard this because I used that five letter word ' bible' but you have to consider all the evidence not just some.

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phil #fundie evcforum.net

If the species in Australia evolved separately from the rest of the world's species, why do they ALL still fit into the general categories describing animals? In other words, if kangaroos are the result of a completely different evolutionary pathway, then why do they still fall under the classification of 'mammals'?

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booboocruise #fundie evcforum.net

You always seem to have anti-creationist crap posted on the web, but I've never seen any evolutionists stand up to a publicised book by a true creation scientist--read through those three books, check their sources, AND ONLY THEN tell me that you can stand up to so-called 'dumb' creation scientists!!!

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booboocruise #fundie evcforum.net

I KNOW you will disagree, but I have seen Patriot's policies, I have SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES Dr. Hovind's PhD diploma, I have talked with Dr. Hovind personally, and I have even read the 'crap' that says Patriot University is a 'degree mill.' Whether it is a degree mill or not, (you'd have to be more specific) is not your business...

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Theologican63 #fundie evcforum.net

Studies have been done at the moment of death and they have shown that the soul IS present in a body and at death the body is a few ounces lighter. Logic would dictate that the soul was what weighed those few ounces.

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booboocruise #fundie evcforum.net

Even if Dr. Hovind WASN'T a doctor that wouldnt mean he doesn't have the righ to run C[reation]S[science]E[vangelism]... Also, any TRULY open-minded, educated person who is not arrogant or ignorant will admit that Dr. Hovind's degrees are legitimate.

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booboocruise #fundie evcforum.net

Evolutionists, particularly the ones in this forum, are among the most close-minded, biased people I've ever heard of... Also, Kent Hovind IS a doctor. All the bogus riff-raff about Kent Hovind's degree is just a back-and-forth rumor between the evolutionists.

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messenjaH #fundie evcforum.net

Actually if a human next to a dinosaur enveloped in ice was ever found, it probably would disapear and never reach the public eye. Do you how much evidence has been destroyed and taken by the government and evolutionists.

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messenjaH #fundie evcforum.net

Would you please stop trying to use my age [14] against me... I have read testimonies by creationists (not Hovind) that say they found evidence that would null evolution, but that evidence was either stolen, taken away by government or the owners of the property where the evidence was found or the owners were forced to dispose of the evidence.