new

www.ovarit.com

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Friend believes in cis-privilege

( Perseph265 )
Ask her to define 'cis-privilege' and what it looks like for women.

The only response I've ever gotten to this is along the lines of 'being recognized as your correct gender'. And what does being recognized as a woman get women, particularly in places like Afghanistan, China, South Korea, or deep red states in the US these days?

You cannot be privileged on an axis of oppression.

( amethyst7 )
Sadly, nothing. The best you can do is gentle Socratic questioning.

"Why can't she see what's obvious?" - this is like asking why a pilot can't see through fog. TWAW is a very convenient smokescreen.

When I was a handmaiden, I used to think that a man wouldn't have to pretend to be trans to walk into a bathroom and assault someone, he'd just do it. Which is a talking point if you're not aware of the insane amount of AGPs who do this, and just assume TIMs are all harmless confused men with "gender dysphoria" who just want to "live their lives. And some TIMs really don't have any intention of hurting people - they really are just confused. But of course you can't tell which is which.

From the POV of someone who supports this, your chances of meeting a TIM in a women's bathroom are tiny, so what do you have to worry about?

They really have no wider awareness of this. Like Hollyhock said, she is probably privileged enough in life not to have given much thought to what some men do for sexual satisfaction.

The "best" way might be bringing up just what lengths men will go to to get their rocks off... but in a very subtle way.

( Women1st )
Lol- cis privilege for a woman today? That’s hilarious. So femicide, DV, male violence, rape is nothing? And having males rob women of their safety and privacy is privilege? Males being recognized for women’s sports, on IWD, and throughout women’s history month is privilege? Being silenced by men at let women speak events is privilege? Women being housed with male rapists in women’s prisons is privilege? Maybe said friend should look up the definition of privilege.

( VestalVirgin )
Did she actually say whether she would like to share a prison cell with a bepenised individual? Isn't that what it comes down to?

Have you asked her what cis-privilege she thinks women in Afghanistan have?

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

They're tying Parker posey to Nazis again
image

( Iceni )
I think it was a stunt pulled by the TRA's. I mean, they were all men in black and black masks, right? They probably decided on the day who should play a Nazi clothed in black and who should play a TRA Nazi clothed in pink and blue.

( Iota_Aurigae )
Now that I see this, I remember that the trans community (specifically TIMs) is infamous for having “former” Nazis…

( BehindtheCurtain )
Let's be fair. Very few TPA's are in shape the way those males were. Those were military or police trained bodies. There is some overlap, but I think it's more likely they came to piss off both groups and try to incite more rage.

( GrimeldaS )
Pretty sure there was at least one guy there is the son of a cop so I don't think it was TRAs. I do think the police deliberately allowed them past, either to discredit the women speaking or because they support neo Nazis. Unfortunately the whole situation has made feminists look really bad which I believe was part of the reason they showed up.

( SuddenlyRamen )
Yeah they're trying really hard to make that a thing. I wouldn't be shocked if they were TRAs in disguise or actors hired by them 😄

( bio-woman )
Didn't the person they "suppressed" attack someone? I know that people got injured at that point in the rally, but it was kind of hard to see what was going on during the stream.

( notsofreshfeeling )
A man in a wig ripped the microphone away from a woman speaking and would not let it go, resisted when they tried to take the microphone back. The body guard there was attempting protect the speakers.

One woman was taken to the hospital after being injured and the MP Moira Deeming was kicked in the shins.

( SummerGrl )
This is all over Twitter. They are pretty much using it to say "terfs" are nazis. It's pretty insulting. I don't want anything to do with that. Nazis are abhorrent and really have nothing to do with gender critical feminism. It's pathetic that TRAs can't differentiate between women who want to stand up for their rights and safety and people who openly advocate for killing others. TRAs have a very black and white way of thinking and that's not how the world works.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

( Gender_Critical )
Cis is a slur.
CIS IS A SLUR.

CIS IS A SLUR.

CIS IS A SLUR

( notapatsy )
"Don't cisgender me," I say, whenever someone does so. "Self ID works both ways, and you don't get to define and label me."

( disco_metal )
Plot twist: I'm actually agender (because I don't "feel like" a woman--I am a woman)

( Irene )
buT it'S nOt laBeLinG yOu iT's juSt fActuAlly wHaT yoU ArE :) :) :) iT juSt meAns NOT TRANS anD yOu'Re nOt trAnS, riGhT?

( Intuiterf )
But how can you tell I'm not trans? I thought it was supposed to be impossible to tell 🤡

( Women1st )
I don’t have to accept their label because they want to validate themselves! I’m a woman, you are not

( Kriegerin )
I saw a TRA "meme" (why are leftists "jokes" just condescending lessons?) that mocked people and especially women who reject the misogynistic "cis"label and they were jerking each other off how it's "just a neutral description".

Alright, so surely you're okay if i call you an autogynephilic fetishist crossdresser or self hating fujoshi handmaiden, right? It's literally just accurate descriptions 🤔

( DurableBook )
Eh, "cis" is just the fig leaf for polite liberal sexism.

Even the people who will talk your ear off about how "sex is a social construct" know exactly which class of people cannot ever be transwomen. They know exactly which class of people need to shut up and sit down.

But they also know it will cramp their style to openly express the same retrograde sexism as their grandpa, hence the invention of a bunch of Totally New And Not At All Recycled gender labels.

( overanddone )
It is.

It is also a convenient gotcha. If transwomen are women, why the distinction used to denote natal women (or, as I am fond of saying “actual women”)? Hmmmm. Must be something fundamentally different about transwomen then, eh? Wonder what that is?

( hmimperialtortie )
Even if it wasn’t used as a slur, why the hell should normal people be defined as not belonging to a group of fetishistic, woman-hating transvestites?

( FutureBreedMachine )
It's literally telling people who aren't psychotic and interested in medicalizing themselves that they're cool with ass backwards sexist stereotypes 🙄 TIPs and TRAs might be some of the most sexist people I've ever met. I thought super right wing old dudes were the worst but they've got some serious competition these days

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: What evidence would you need to see in order to change your mind?

( KanaChameleon )
I would be happily live and let live if TRAs would do the same. If they agreed and respected that women and homosexuals have boundaries and needs distinct from that of the trans identified.

If TRAs did not insist on eradicating single sex spaces, women's sports, safeguarding measures, female prizes and opportunities, sex based language, homosexuality defined as same sex attraction, and instead fought for third spaces or their own trans opportunities exclusive to them, then please go for it. Even if I will not ever agree that men can be women and women can be men I have no right to stop anyone self defining. I just do not believe the law/or our social rules should be based around identity over biological sex.

( notsofreshfeeling )
100% - Gender identity should be protected on the basis of protected belief, not sex. It's a religion built around the supernatural: it's materially impossible for our sexually dimorphic human species to change from one sex to the other. I'm fine with people believing in flat-earth type nonsense, just as long as those beliefs are not imposed upon me.

( hmimperialtortie )
It’s not an unfalsifiable claim, though, which makes me think it’s not in the same category and definitely not worthy of protection. The claim that men can be women and vice versa is demonstrably untrue. Plus the whole point of it is to force it on the unwilling.

( VirginiaWolfberry )
Having wine changed into blood is also untrue in exactly the same way — the religious practices themselves can be falsifiable by reasonable people, but not so by believers in a gender (soul). I say religion. Children (who cannot consent and are therefore unwilling) are targeted in both cases.

( m0RT_1 )
Agree.

For me, they would need to demonstrate absolutely no intention to colonize and take over women's sexed based rights in law or practice. I'd support them having their own safe spaces and clubs,etc.

I'd like an answer to why can't men accept TIMs as another category of men and support them in the male community, too.

Also, i like an answer to how we are meant to distinguish between so-called "true trans" and the other 98% that are porn-soaked AGPs that make women's lives a fetish.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

JK Rowling reveals people close to her 'begged' her not to speak out on transgender debate | Daily Mail Online

( DaftCat )
I completely get why those close to her would just be like for God's sake just keep yourself out of it, but I suspect when we look back on all this (hopefully as a bizarre blip rather than the beginning of the end) JKR standing up for women's rights at a time when it was deeply unpopular to do so will be heralded as one of the key things that slowly go the frigate of public opinion to start it's slow turn.

The reluctance to speak out as a public figure is somewhat understandable given the absolute shite we've seen JKR and others put up with. She made a choice to put her reputation on the line and stand up for what was right, rather than what was easy. I strongly suspect in the years to come we'll see a lot more voices join in and they'll find strength in numbers. But JKR and all those countless other names who face venom and vitriol for daring to be 'first' are owed a debt in getting this debate into the public consciousness.

( Carrots90 )
The funny thing os that it wasn’t her words that peaked many people

It was the TRA response to her words that peaked them

The attempt to shit her down showed more about the movement than her words

( cranberrysalad )
YES! It peaked me. I was so grateful when she pushed back on “people who menstruate” and seeing her reviled as a literal Nazi for it was a huge awakening for me. And then she was like you know what, “this witch doesn’t burn” and took female empowerment to a whole new galaxy.

( shewolfoffrance )
Yes. They are their own worst enemies. Sending rape and death threats to a woman is not a great way to convince those who are on the fence that you aren't a threat to women.

( m0RT_1 )
Yes, the TRAs visceral hatred of women who dared to even try to discuss their concerns made me realize it is a movement full of misogynists.

( anxietyacct )
She would have never experienced any of this if she was a man. "Leftist" "feminists" are currently laughing on Twitter because Andrew Tate said he would have sex with a trans woman. They treat a rapist like he's just some funny guy, meanwhile JKR is literally the devil incarnate.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

Instagram post that so many of my friends are sharing saying trans people are being systemically genocided
image

( ItsCalculated )
This is Q-anon levels of delusional conspiracy theory.

( Researcher1536 )
Different side of the same crazy ideological coin.

( snorlax )
y'know, I've never met a qanon person. I don't think anyone has ever amputated anything in the name of qanon, or given kids chemical castration drugs because of it. so to me, gendercrap seems much more dangerous as conspiracy theories go.

( hmimperialtortie )
The dehumanisation is all their own. They make themselves physically repulsive to match their personalities, indulge every disgusting fetish under the sun, and threaten to murder any women who object.

( TerfPersephone )
Oh ffs. I’m sure we can all recall that when Jewish people were being imprisoned in ghettos and death camps, that they had the unequivocal support of billionaires, the pharmaceutical industry, and celebrity advocates. No? Well, what about the Tutsi - there were flags, and marches, merchandise, and technological powerhouses constantly advocating for their interests while the Hutus planned their slaughter. Still no?

It’s almost like TRAs and their handmaidens are manipulative and petty paper-tigers who have one card they like to play more than any other in their bid for social dominance: emotional manipulation. Threats of self-harm and/or suicide have worked very well for some time now. What hasn’t worked well is “uplifting trans voices” - because trans voices are batshit insane. “Trans rights” aren’t about rights - they’re about privileges, and the expectation that the rest of society (but especially women) should just bend the knee to any demands made by TRAs. And it’s getting easier and easier to see just how entitled and crazy these people are when they warble on about their own “genocide”. Apparently, forbidding children from being chemically sterilized or mutilated is “anti-trans”. And the more these jackasses rant and rave about the oppression of other people having healthy boundaries, the larger the amount of people waking up and calling this trans-activism the absolute bullsh*t that it is.

BondiBlue & notapatsy #transphobia ovarit.com

( BondiBlue )
Nashville school shooting and media reports
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03/27/us/nashville-shooting-covenant-school/nashville-shooting-covenant-school

I have a difficult confession to make that probably seems trivial in the grander scheme of this tragedy.

The fact that the media reports are saying the shooter was female — I hate that I can’t trust them to be fully honest. I suspect TIM because mass shootings are male-pattern violence. But who knows if this was an outlier. The fact is they will never say whether the shooter was a real woman or a TIM because woke editorial guidelines forbid them from distinguishing.

And I hate that this is even a question. In a sane world you could trust journalists to report if it was a male shooter disguised as a woman. But now they can’t because of TRA Orwellian authoritarianism governing the newsroom and the public discourse writ large.

If the shooter was a TIM there would be more backlash for “misgendering” the murderer than for the actual murder. He or she is dead, so at least if it was a TIM he wouldn’t be in a woman’s prison. And again it may be not. But just the lack of clarity is infuriating.

And it angers me that Republicans can’t be trusted to protect women and kids from guns, while Democrats can’t be trusted to protect women and kids from TRA butchery, assault, and gaslighting.

All of this could be moot of course. But I can’t escape the thought nevertheless.

( notapatsy )
First thing I thought when I heard the shooter was heavily armed, including with an AR-15, was "male pattern violence." Women don't generally kill children. I am reserving judgement about whether the murderer is actually female. If the shooter turns out to be a trans-identified male, TRA's will blameshift the responsibility onto "a transphobic world" (and especially women!).

But we'll see. The information will come out at some point.

Update to my post: now that the shooter has been identified as a TIF, I hope some enterprising TRA doesn't take my comment about male-pattern violence as "evidence" the shooter was "really" male. If anything, I'd say she was out-male-ing males in an effort to prove she was "really" male.

various commenters #enbyphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

Resumes including they/them pronouns are more likely to be overlooked

( Jazman1867 )
That gives me some hope for this world.

( Hollyhock )
They/them on a resume screams, "I will be a VERY DIFFICULT employee and make your life as a manager hell."

( ham_champion )
I found that when I included "I'm an insufferable narcissist and will definitely be a giant pain in the ass to work with" on my resume, I got fewer callbacks. Why are the terfs trying to genocide me?!

( Mandy )
"Similarly, 51% believe their gender identity has affected their workplace experience "very or somewhat negatively."

Their gender identity has probably also affected their workmates very or somewhat negatively.

( fightlikeagirl )
Can't blame them, it'd be exhausting to work with an "NB". Imagine all the complaints they'd be bringing to HR for people hurting their gender feelings.

( pennygadget )
Not to mention the NBs going on TikTok to cry about how their employer is a Nazi for not letting them go home early with full pay every time some elderly customer calls them "young lady" or "young man". Or having to deal with a TIM throwing a tantrum on Twitter because all the women in his department use a different department's restroom because they don't want him in the room with them when they pee.

( a_shrub )
"Everybody misgenders me, so I don't feel safe working here."

( GCRadFem )
Without a doubt, if I was still reviewing resumes for potential hires, any of the non-b’s, self-identifying TIMS or the pronoun bunch would go in the do-not-interview pile.

( Kevina )
I help review candidates/make hiring decisions for my team, 1000% you will not get a job on my team if I see or hear about pronouns

( pennygadget )
Ditto. Not only are they insufferable and likely to cause conflict. They're also unproductive and have a habit of running to the break room to make a weepy TikTok every time their dysphoria is triggered

( chocolatefondant21 )
Same. I wouldn’t hire someone who’s going to make me walk on eggshells around them. No one has time for that.

( hmimperialtortie )
And should a TIP slip through that stage, he or she wouldn’t make it past interview.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

It's not turning out how they had hoped
image

( cranberrysalad )
Visibility does not help their cause! Visibility and exposure was a great things for civil rights and for gay rights to name two examples. Getting to know a gay person goes a long way in fighting homophobia and broad acceptance of homosexuality. Same with getting to know someone from another culture or ethnic group.

Creepy predatory fetishists and their collateral (TiFs that have been so abused by misogyny that they attempt to opt out of it) are not helpful in the acceptance and humanization path because they represent the worst aspects of humanity.

Keep being visible. Come on Jeffrey Marsh go on Good Morning America and preach. Dylan Mulvaney please get Woman of The Year. Rachel Levine can be in Sports Illustrated’s Swimsuit Edition. Lia Thomas for women’s gold at the Olympics! Keep coming out so this madness can stop.

( shewolfoffrance )
It's amazing how many people's peak trans moments come from getting to know trans people, either in person or by reputation.

( shewolfoffrance )
This is why I'm all for trans representation. Not the sanitized kind on TV, either. Real TiPs. I want Andrea Long-Chu informing the world that sissy porn made him a woman. I want Alok Vaid-Menon telling parents their little girls are "kinky." I want Ana Valens sharing his violent gang rape fantasies with any people who are still trying "educates themselves."

( no- )

UNIRONICALLY THE TRANS REPRESENTATIVES NEED TO ALL BE HSTS YOUNSHIT GIGAPASSOIDS

Isn’t that end goal of transing kids? Creating a sympathetic category of TIMs the creepy crossdressers can hide behind?

( space_out )
That and also having 18-year-olds-on-paper whose bodies (including their brain development) didn't go through puberty.

( no- )
It’s funny how exactly the opposite thing happened with actual marginalized groups. Visibility increased acceptance because people realized those groups were in fact just people trying to live their lives in peace, and not at the expense of others. Trans, on the other hand, are for the most part privileged and entitled men and self-hating women pushing a misogynistic and homophobic ideology.

Women1st , Understanderson & amethyst7 #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: We should start calling "trans rights" what they really are: Trans privilege

( Women1st )
It’s misogyny. Men are better women than we are, lol. Men can dominate our sports. Men can access our bathrooms. Men can serve time in women’s prisons. Who cares if they are rapists? Their feelings are more important than the lived experience of women. Absolute misogyny.

( Understanderson )
I like this, but in America, it would be too easy to dismiss as a right wing dog whistle (this exact verbiage has been used to argue against gay rights). I would love to find some phrase that focuses more on the replacement of sex with gender and the erosion of women's sex-based rights, but I can't think of anything that can't easily be dismissed. When people (women especially) hear that 'trans women are women' means eventually you won't be free to ask for a female doctor or even gynecologist, that seems to wake them up--but I have no idea how to make a label out of that. Most people are also shocked by what's happening to lesbians when they hear about it, but it is so bizarre that they don't quite believe it could be that bad.

( amethyst7 )
It's safe to say you're preaching to the choir here. I think most of us use the word 'rights' facetiously.

TIPs' imaginary rights include:

1. the right to screech about the "staggeringly high suicide rates" myth
2. the right to practice their fetish loudly and in public
3. the right to infringe upon same sex spaces, including the vitally important areas of prison and healthcare

Do LGB people demand that others call their partners their wife/husband and be propped up by legislation and legal punishment if not followed?

Excellent point.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

( Mintie )
We should start calling "trans rights" what they really are: Trans privilege
I read a comment on here yesterday that really put things into perspective. The commenter called TRAs Trans Privilege activists and honestly, theyve got a good point. It's a good way to start a conversation too, if someone asks why you're using trans privilege instead of trans rights. Topics could include:

- What rights don't trans people have? Is their asking of "rights" encroaching on the rights of others in recompense? Other identity movements (womens, African American, LGB) haven't even taken rights away from others, only added rights to existing ones to create equality. For example, when gay marriage was legislated, the word marriage wasn't taken away and replaced a more inclusive but degrading term like "man-woman sex and assets pact".

- Bring up the fact that trans people are asking for rights that LGB didn't ask for even though they're a part of the same acronym. Why?

- Do LGB people demand that others call their partners their wife/husband and be propped up by legislation and legal punishment if not followed? Why not? Why are trans rights different and seemingly more legaslatively important than LGB rights?

( Tiramisuomi )
If they were rebranded TPAs I wouldn't object, because it's utterly true.

Women continue to struggle even after centuries exactly because we don't have the "right" to force people to perceive us in a certain way. Hell, look at just how much of the conversation in the media revolves around TIMs versus TIFs or enbies/theys (overwhelmingly female). They aren't perceived in the manner that they wish to be nearly to the extent that men are.

( mittimithai )
I think most here would agree that "trans rights" really mean "men's rights"

( Lilith-Fair )
It is true, but saying "men's rights" won't help open people's eyes because they've been gaslit into thinking TWAW. Plus people don't take "men's rights" all that seriously except MRAs. "Trans privilege" I think will snap people out of it because it makes them think about what the TRAs are really asking for,

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

Kaiser Permanente Sued Over Hormone Therapy – NBC Bay Area

( GCRadFem )
A couple of years ago I stated that there will be a tsunami of children and adults waking up from the fog of transgenderism to be able to clearly see their ruined bodies and what was done to them. It may be beginning now. Every lawsuit will build on the one prior.

It has truly been a revenue stream for physicians, surgeons and hospitals but destruction for those children and young adults that health”care” has chosen to blindly follow fallacy and bullshit instead of science and reality.

( eyeswideopen )
Yes, as much as would like a wholesale and society-wide rejection of the genderist movement in the U.S., lawsuits by people and children damaged by the drugs and surgeries they were convinced into doing will be the way this ends here. I still think it will another decade before it ends completely because the courts are slow, but this is the beginning of the end here.

( tacocat )
The courts are slow, but when these lawsuits are all over the news, parents with vulnerable children will be more alert to the dangers of transitioning. I think this will result in fewer children being fed into the system. At least I hope so.

( RusticTroglodyte )
Soon we'll be seeing lawyer ads all over Insta and the rest of the internet, for ppl effected by gender treatments, mark my words

( RusticTroglodyte )
Absolutely. The carnage is even worse in a place like the United States with no guaranteed healthcare.

Not to mention that a lot of the side effects of medical transition are going to leave more and more ppl on disability at younger and younger ages

This whole thing is going to be looked at as a huge generational tragedy in years to come

OwnLyingEyes & penelopekitty #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: How would you rank the irrationality of Gender Ideology vs Rightist Conspiracy Theories?

( OwnLyingEyes )
I think the underlying irrationality is at least equally insane, to the point where it's easy to sound like a conspiracy theorist yourself when just trying to call people's attention to what gender ideologists actually believe, say, and do, IMO it's actually even more insane than flat eartherism to deny such a fundamental, personally observable fact that men and women are different, but there's one considerable difference to be factored into it: it's incredibly well funded and trusted institutions are pushing it. The sources you'd normally turn to for the facts have been captured. This isn't the grassroots crazy of garden variety conspiracy theories, but oligarch-driven insanity. And so many of the people who buy into it aren't the usual paranoid/distrustful skeptics, or bored clever people getting trapped in an obsessive, increasingly detached from reality and mentally unhealthy spiral, but rather people who are too trusting, who aren't paying that much attention and take the prevailing narrative about this at face value. People whose response to 'that doesn't make any sense' immediately terminate the thought with 'I just must not understand.'

And the truth is, the scope of this insanity is a huge pill to swallow. It WOULD be easier, and a lot more comfortable, to just believe that the people setting these policies know what they're doing and have good intentions. In this case, the reality is so horrifying it doesn't seem possible.

( penelopekitty )
Of course they're comparable, but the gender delusion is far worse. We have sterilized and mutilated a generation of children. That really happened and is still happening. Women are being erased under the law - it already happened. Gender identity has taken precedence over sex in legislation. There has been widespread institutional capture.

How is that not much, much worse than Qanon?

VestalVirgin #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: How would you rank the irrationality of Gender Ideology vs Rightist Conspiracy Theories?

It is very obvious which is worse: The one that affects legislation.

Gender insanity dictates the law. Males get to win at womens' sports. Male rapists are allowed into womens' prisons.

So what if some conspiracy theorists believe that the earth is flat and covid is a hoax? As long as politics are made without even the slightest consideration for such conspiracy theories (and currently, I don't see any political decisions being made on basis of the assumption that the earth is flat), those theories are not really a problem.

(This is also something I tell the idiotic pro-genderists who claim that they don't want males in womens' prisons and that wanting men to get to rape women in prison is a "fringe opinion" and doesn't represent transactivism - why then, is it made law? Why, if they are against it, do they not speak up? It is blatantly obvious that they are lying through their teeth.)

Edit: As for which is more insane, I still think gender ideology.

Gender ideology claims that what our eyes can see (that men are men and not women, for example) is wrong.

Flat-earthism, on the other hand, is quite silly, but one must give it that: It is something that makes sense to people who don't live near the sea, have never been in an airplane, etc. Chemtrails and Covid-as-hoax, likewise, are things that are not easily disproved by just leaving one's house.

The rightist conspiracy theories are rooted in distrust against science, the leftist insanity is caused by too much trust in everything that pretends to be science. Both, taken to the extreme, are wrong, but at least the approach of only believing what you can understand is natural. It served humanity well enough for survival for a long time.

Gendernonsense, on the other hand, is not sustainable, and I have a niggling suspicion that the explicit ban in the Bible on men wearing womens' clothing and vice versa might have been caused by AGPs already having existed back then, and people having noticed that it is very, very bad for society to let them do what they want. (I do not think that enough women passed as male that it would have posed a major problem to patriarchy.)

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

( BathMat )
How would you rank the irrationality of Gender Ideology vs Rightist Conspiracy Theories?

My male partner is in basic agreement on important points of gender wars, but sometimes clearly thinks I'm overestimating the scale of the problem, in terms of how widespread beliefs about the crazier aspects are within the left and institutions.

This recently came up again as he had been talking to some serious conspiracy theorists about their beliefs - from chemtrails and covid-is-a-hoax to actual flat-earthism. I tried to say something about how yes, all of that is obviously insane, and there is some kind of growing internet + disenfranchisement problem, and did he see how that was also true of the people we know on the left thinking various equally irrational things about sex and gender? [...]. He said that most people who say TWAW don't mean it literally and are playing some kind of intellectual game rather than deluded.

So I was just wondering what people here think? Are they comparable mass delusions, or different types of things? I'm not particularly looking to win the argument, although I wish I'd been better able to explain what seems so obvious to me! But it's made me genuinely wonder if there are differences, and if so what they are.

( hmimperialtortie )

He said that most people who say TWAW don't mean it literally and are playing some kind of intellectual game rather than deluded.

Which is no better, because it means they know it is a lie and support the destruction of women’s rights anyway.

( RawSienna )
Is the flat earth lobby elbowing their way into schools to groom kids into thinking harmful nonsense?

Are chemtrailers forcing workplaces to do strange quasi-religious compliance rituals with their employees?

Kooky and eccentric beliefs are harmless until they have the force of social and legal pressure behind them.

( zuubat )
Creationism: Privileging the words of a handful of Bronze Age misogynists who claimed to speak for G-d over a planetful of evidence left directly by G-d.

Genderism: Privileging the words of a handful of modern-day misogynists who claim to be women over evidence produced over the entirety of human all living history showing they are not.

RuneOwl , sailorvenus & RighteousIndignation #transphobia ovarit.com

Trans Activists Blame JK Rowling, Women Critical of Gender Ideology For Murder Of Transgender Teenager | Reduxx

( RuneOwl )
The fact that they’d rather find any cheap, ghoulish opportunity to dunk on JKR and do absolutely nothing to tackle the issue of who is actually doing the literal murdering just shows how little trans people actually care about one another.

Trans people want more trans deaths because it’s like their twisted source of narcissistic supply. The more they can roleplay being oppressed off the backs of real victims, the more they can manipulate and intimidate the rest of us all while pretending it’s some noble crusade.

They are their own worst enemies.

( sailorvenus )
You just unlocked a realization when you said roleplaying.

They’re fucking LARPing. They just won’t admit it and this forces everyone to play along and treat them like their character.

( RighteousIndignation )
this highlights the fact they are the safest, hardly any trans get killed, imagine if we acted like them every time a woman is murdered. this is not the win they think it is, as their behaviour will just peak more people into how much they have lied about how vulnerable they are, if it gets decided it was a hate crime the newspapers will run with headlines saying first transgender murder in 5 years which will blow all their claims out the water.

their behaviour is very strange, they seem to act like they want to use everything for point scoring but never look at the bigger picture,they are their own worst enemies.

Philogynist , XxWomanxX & hmimperialtortie #transphobia ovarit.com

( Philogynist )
Comparing TRAs with MRAs

- MRA emphasis on "egalitarianism" and "individuality" is the same thing as TRA emphasis on "inclusivity" and "identity".

- MRAs creating a group of "female oppressors" they called "feminazis" is the same thing as TRAs creating a group of "female oppressors" they call "TERFs" (note: lesbians were the ones most likely to be cast in both of these groups).

- MRAs stating that female people oppress male people and use feminism as a tool to do it is the same thing as TRAs stating that female ("cis") people oppress male ("trans") people and use radical feminism as a tool to do it.

- MRAs declaring that the existence of women-only resources and spaces is sexism against men is the same as TRAs claiming that the existence of women-only resources and spaces is transmisogyny against trans women (sexism against men).

- MRAs stating that there is nothing wrong with porn or prostitution is the same thing as TRAs stating there is nothing wrong with porn or prostitution.

- MRAs stating that one of the hallmarks of men being oppressed by women is their inability to be emotionally expressive. This is remarkably similar to TRAs stating that their inability to be emotionally validated is one of the hallmarks of trans-identifying male people being oppressed by women.

- MRAs claiming that feminism needs to focus on men is the same thing as TRAs claiming that feminism needs to focus on trans-identifying male people.

- MRAs claiming that women have female privilege is the same as TRAs claiming that women have cis privilege and transmen have "masc" privilege.

- The incel offshoot of MRAs claiming that lesbians should be sexually available to men is the same thing as TRAs claiming that lesbians should be sexually available to TIMs.

Does anyone here remember the group that was the primary opposition to feminism before TRAs came along? MRAs almost nearly suddenly disappeared overnight as a direct force when TRAs stepped into the spotlight.

( XxWomanxX )
They both fight for the advancement of privileges to males at the expense of women and children.

( hmimperialtortie )
Yep, same people. Likewise incels and transcels. All part of the “manosphere”.

I used to be on the blog Manboobz/We Hunted the Mammoth before the bloke running it sold out completely to the TIMs.

itsnotaboutewe #transphobia ovarit.com

One Last Push And We Will Win

[...] I have been having the same arguments with the other side over and over again and it's gotten to the point where I won't bother to interact with anyone who has been pro-trans for more than a year because the chances of us both just having the same circular conversations we've had a thousand times before is too great to exert much energy on it again. [...]

But now the general population is waking up. There is a new audience that has never heard our logical arguments, and who is open to hearing our views. [...] We need to get back to basics in reiterating our views. Discussions we figured we had won years ago will need to be brought up again, not as ideas that we want to convince them of, but as items we can present as facts this time.

Where before we were arguing with pro-trans people about whether some men can become women and addressing all their usual lunacy, this time we need to start conversations with newcomers with the fact that human beings cannot change sex and go from there.

"We all know human beings cannot change sex regardless of medical interventions or what a person feels their soul to be, right? Therefore men can never be considered to be women in any circumstances." We need to keep it that simple.

The demented arguments the transborg used to bring up (clownfish, the clitoris is just a micro-penis, born in the wrong body) are not talking points likely to come up with normal people. The average man and woman on the street aren't stupid. They want to be kind but not at the expense of reality, and especially not at the expense of the safety of children. (that's one thing that will swing this our way quickly - trans largely aren't parents, and parents will do anything to protect their kids).

This time we can control the narrative, because the debate has been blown open by recent very public events (YMCAs with men flashing girls in the women's showers, the madness in Scotland, etc) so we can talk about this stuff openly. We can even pretend we have only just become aware of the situation ourselves and make all the great points that we have honed over the years to make the logic sound fresh.

I really think we are on the downhill run now, but we can't sit back and enjoy the ride. We have to make one last push so the momentum outruns us and we have to step out of the way of our own success. I truly believe 2023 is the year we win.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

( prumblepuss )
reasons to become a woman (that I've noticed)

Usually more than one of these are happening at once, but I was thinking about the types of TiMs I've seen:

The autogynephile (obv) - sexually attracted to themselves as women. Comes in many flavors.

The shame filled gay man who thinks that wanting to have sex with men is womanhood.

Men who are bothered by his sex drive and would prefer something much lower or none at all.

Cross dressers who are told that their sexual arousal in women's clothing is euphoria and proof of their transness.

Men who want to be admired, fawned over, dressed beautifully. Men who like makeup and nail polish and selfies.

Men who watch lesbian porn and fantasize about being in a lesbian relationship.

Men who watch trans porn and want to fuck/become the porn star.

Men with a sissy/humiliation kink.

Men who feel particularly hurt when excluded from female groups.

( DietCokeAddict )
Also: recently convicted rapists who want to be placed in a women’s prison.

( realityismykink )
You forgot pedophiles who want easier access to children.

( Kevina )
Men who are mediocre athletes who want desperately to be champions/go to the Olympics, or ones who are about to age out of competitive sport.

( Understanderson )
One more: men opting into an "oppressed group" either so they can spout men's rights propaganda from an unassailable position or escape being viewed as part of the oppressor group.

( TheExorcistofLies )
This was my first thought too, the MRAs “sticking it” to feminism by transing out and taking employment and political positions meant for women. They’ve talked about this as a strategy to push women out.

various commenters #transphobia #conspiracy ovarit.com

RE: I fear DeSantis aka DeSatan will be our next president because of TIMs

( littleowl12 )
What we have sacrificed for these ridiculous fetishists is beyond measure. They've destroyed the progressive movement. I don't see any future progress. Not near future, anyway. Only a terrible erosion of what we have.

( JACKANDJILL )
The Republicans know this is a huge winning issue for them.

Typically Republicans are full of shit and have to use a lot of propaganda and manipulation to fool people into buying into their nonsense.

On the gender issue, Republicans are actually telling the truth and they are going to hammer this issue whenever possible. They know it's their best shot to peal away Democratic voters.

( Amareldys )
People said that about gay marriage.

My problems with the TRA movement isn’t that they rally Republicans, it is that they interfere with the rights of women and require people to lie

( Seven )
Other countries are having the same pendulum swing because of the institutional capture by the trans movement. A perfect psyop

( cyber21 )
Yeah desantis is likely the front runner from the right. The Dems will probably put up Michelle Obama or Gavin Newsom. With CRT, gender woo, historic inflation, the border crisis, Ukraine, and FBI shenanigans, the right definitely has a decent chance of winning. As long as people like Katie Hobbs aren't in charge of counting the ballots 🤣

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

Valencia killed 69-year-old transexual sex worker Kimberley McRae in Coogee | Daily Mail Online

( FemmeEtal )
That’s a whole lot of “she’s” for a story about 2 disgusting men.

( Hera )
Cases like this are always tough to me because, on one hand, holy shit my dude was raped by deception by a 70 year-old man in drag. He has every right to be pissed af and I can not blame him for responding with violence.

But on the other hand, it's obvious he (Valencia) is a predator too, since he thought he was buying sex from a young woman. It makes me wonder how many women he has abused in the past, especially women stuck in the sex trade. No matter what, he belongs in prison. Keep him miles away from women.

( proudcatlady )
It’s not tough. Man A deserved the “rape” which of course was not rape, he was seeking to rape someone and didn’t get the custom experience he thought he was entitled to. Oh, well.

The second man is a disgusting fetishist but he didn’t deserve to die for not being the rape victim the rapist intended.

( Greensocksladders )
'Rape by deception'. Usually this refers to someone concealing their biological sex, and for the most part it's going to be men who are 'duped' by other men. Probably the men being 'duped' are assuming that their sexual partner is female, rather than the sexual partner saying it outright.

[...]

( RisingUp )

'It is the accused's case that he did not know the deceased was 69 years of age or was transgender,' Ms Wasley said.

The claim is that he realised after “sex acts?”

This sounds so unlikely.

( Eava )
Well, there are many sex acts that can be performed on men without ever revealing the performer's genitals.

( RisingUp )
Yes, I presumed that’s what it means, but a 69 year old AGP passing as a woman in her forties?

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: An open response to the Males of Reddit discussion - Welcome to Ovarit

( OneStarWolf )
I’m so tired of these men claiming we want them dead 🙄 As if it’s women that are the ones constantly making death threats and holding guillotine signs while blocking their movement to peaceful trans gatherings??? Oh wait, that’s you men doing that to women actually! YOU want us dead. Stop the fucking darvo.

( DurableBook )
I get called a hateful genocidal bigot because I argue that it is not ethical to sterilize trans-identified people before they reach adulthood.

I get told I am murdering trans people by arguing that medical professionals should be held to evidence-based standards in regard to the drugs and surgeries they provide to trans-identified people.

I am called "trans exclusive" and told that I am erasing trans people when I point out the concrete reasons why it is medically and scientifically critical to have terms for female persons and male persons that are trans-inclusive (that is, terms which include ALL members of a given sex, of any gender identity or belief system).

I never cease to be entertained by how my active efforts to improve healthcare for trans people are what got me branded a "TERF". I'm literally arguing that it's NOT okay to sterilize you or to risk your health and life by performing experimental surgeries with no established standards of care...and this is the evidence that I "want you dead."

Whatever. I'm still going to oppose unethical medical practices, no matter if the people being harmed are trans or not.

( a-witch-a-broad )
To a narcissist, denial of his ego-driven demands is equal to death.

( Iota_Aurigae )
Heh, there’s a reason most TIMs don’t get rid of their ego stick. They love the sense of power it gives them.

( KittyWhawWhaw )
Oh, please. We’ve raped and assaulted plenty of them… oh wait. That was actually the other way around, wasn’t it?

( chocolatefondant21 )
I actually do want most men to be gone. It has nothing to do with being trans and everything to do with being male.

tahmahrah & Amareldys #transphobia #conspiracy ovarit.com

RE: I’m honestly so devastated (Finland self-id)

( tahmahrah )
I have said this before, and I’ll say it again.

This goes way farther than just a loud, annoying community of woke radicals that have lawmakers et al by the balls.

No truly oppressed group makes this many stratospheric strides in social clout and legal support in this short of an amount of time.

There is far more to it than just trans bullshit.

I think it’s a multi-faceted, nuanced mass social engineering scheme/psyop, and if you follow the money, it has close links to transhumanism, corporatism, and apologist for pedophilia.

I think, I’m addition, with the whole Epstein thing finally making it into the main Zeitgest of the populace at large, the pedos/sexual predators who have been woven into the fabric of the uppermost echelons of society know their days are numbered, and are slowly paving the way to change law to minimize/remove any serious ramifications for their heinous crimes.

Think of it this way.

You make sex a grey area, why not age next?

And furthermore, you have kids put on cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers who will look 10-15 at age 30. Especially including the lack of physical sexual maturity. Women will have no breasts, small hips, etc. in a way that isn’t just the bone structure you see in a lot of petite women. It will be in the face, skin, vagina, even the teeth.

These women (and the men) will be legal adults, legal to have sex with.

The effect this will have on normalizing pedophilia will be profound and fundamental.

Make no mistake, this level of systemic shakeup can only come from the top-down.

( Amareldys )
My tinfoil hat thoughts are a bit more extreme and run along the lines of, if they can get us to say men are women they can get us to say ANYTHING. And I am wondering what the “anything” is. It just seems so dystopian and1984ish

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

TIM 5 times more likely to commit sex offences than other males

( Atlasisawoman )
566x more likely than women to commit sex crimes but they’re one of us?

( SecondSkin )
Honestly that seems lower than expected.

( SaltnC )
To be fair, it did say in the analysis that if trans has been overestimated due to people misunderstanding the question then the true number would be a much higher likelihood of sexual offending.

( Hermione )
God, I remember that spa guy being defended as someone with a record of public indecency offenses as “he was targeted for public indecency because he was being trans, not exposing himself for kicks”. 🙄

And another thing! When people bring up the stats that TIMs are disproportionately targeted and victimized in prison, we need to bring up the stats of how many of them are sex offenders.

Sex offenders are targeted in prison. So, yeah, having a really high proportion of TIMs in prison having sex offenses, as 40-50% of them do… yeah; they’re going to be targeted. If they have so much fear being trans, they wouldn’t take all the hormones and demand all the makeup while they’re banged up in the clink.

( fallingwater )
I wonder how we could establish the reverse. Males convicted of sex offences are x times more likely to begin identifying as women than males convicted of non-sexual offences. I almost feel like that's the real story because it sets the timeline right - they start off as predators and then become trans, they don't start of as trans and then become predators.

( hmimperialtortie )
And this is why I have no time for “Not All TIMs” and “don’t dehumanise TIMs” and “oh but dysphoria” and all the rest of it. They are brazen fetishists, parading their perversions for all to see. Those flags they wave are all red. They are the worst men.

( Jellyfishes )
This. And if the "nice" TIMs are scared of being attacked by other males, they can make their own separate bathrooms, prison wings and spaces. But they don't want to, because they want access to women. If they have enough money to control the whole media to shill their ideology, that's enough money to build a few single-stall bathrooms, but then pervs can't reach their preys.

( hmimperialtortie )
Yes, and their claims of being scared of other men are just the usual projection. They’re far more a threat to other men than other men are to them.

various commenters #sexist #homophobia ovarit.com

RE: drinking piss is part of gay culture

( yikesforever )
Tbh, some of what i've heard about gay males (like going camping and having huge orgies) sounds disgusting af and worse than hetero couples, cause it's all male...

( Riothamus )
Women are the control rods for male sexuality. Remove the control rods and you get a meltdown.

( proudcatlady )
I done been saying this. And it’s exhausting to be the control rod. And miserable.

( shewolfoffrance )
Because men, collectively, want women to be the control rods, just not for them individually.

They want women to take sole responsibility for making sure there are no single-parent homes, children born out of wedlock, divorces, or promiscuity. They also want to keep their porn, casual sex, strip clubs, forever girlfriends, dating apps, open relationships, and "instagram models."

Tesseract #transphobia ovarit.com

To the Lurking TIMs
To the Lurking TIMs:

Hello, TIMs, we know you’re there, Sporting ladies’ underwear. We do not like your silly scam. We do not like it, Sam, you sham.

Go stick your penis in your socks. Go stick it in a cardboard box. But do not stick it here or there. You cannot stick it everywhere.

Though you can take it on a boat, Don’t stick your penis in a goat, Not even if the goat’s a She. That’s something you will never be.

You’re still a man when on a train, A man when standing in the rain, Your hair-don’t flapping here and there, Mascara dripping everywhere.

A man, a guy, a bro, a mister, You won’t ever be a sister. A handmaid, willing to pretend Is just a prop and not a friend.

The lesbians, you make them sick. They like vaginas, not your dick. They do not like it here or there. They do not like it anywhere.

A twirly skirt is no disgrace; Deflate your moobs and wash your face. You can stop this, yes, you can. Just go and be a better man.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

Everyone experiences misogyny, especially men
image

( IntuitiveStains )
This is the end game. Whether intentionally or not, they're disassembling all of the valuable concepts and institutions that affect and protect women. Yes, get rid of sex segregated spaces. Yes, invade the sport brackets of women. Most importantly, though, is to disassemble the notion that it's even possible to hate women for being women. Yes, do that, and you can hate women all you want, consequence-free.

( notsofreshfeeling )
The world's best male trolls could not have come up with a more delightfully sinister anti-SJW, anti-feminism, anti-woman tactic than transgenderism. This is a men's rights movement that has coopted any and all slogans, insights, rationales, aesthetics of any and all liberation movements around identity (race, sex, sexual orientation, ableism, agism, fatphobia, intersex, you name it) in order to center men. And they managed it all with language. It's absolutely brilliant.

( furyosa )
The brilliance of the tactic only works because it plays into the fact that the majority of minds are already deeply marinated in male supremacy and misogyny to begin with. If our global culture actually had gained any collective progress regarding not hating women and not pedestaling men (regardless how they identify) from previous feminist work, this tactic would never have worked as well as it evidently does. It works like DARVO. You get to feel like you're fighting for justice for the apparent "victim" while not having to challenge your core programmed misogyny. It's a winning strategy in terms of mental energy preservation for everyone from MRAs to libfems.

( SakuraBlossoms )

being perceived as a man and having expectations of masculinity imposed on them is a violence committed against trans women [sic]

A man being perceived as a man is misogyny. A man being expected to match male sex stereotypes because he's male is misogyny.

( aello )
How can they "boy mode" if they don't benefit from male privilege? They "boy mode" to avoid harassment and be respected at work.

TIMs (and TIFs, too) are a toxic byproduct of misogyny. The only reason trans is a thing at all is because of imposed sex roles, born out of man's eternal hatred of woman.

various commenters #transphobia #dunning-kruger ovarit.com

Trust the science!
image

( emissch )
What I find so exhausting when it comes to confronting TRAs about the reality of sex is that they act like they are well aware of sex the entire time but act like it's a completely inconsequential thing on our daily lives.

( pennygadget )
This shit is the reason so many people are skeptical of things like COVID and climate change. Why should we "trust the experts" when they're claiming that magical internal gender souls exist?

( Kriegerin )
Hands down, i don't fault anti maskers and anti vaxxers anymore. And i wonder every day about what else they're lying ...

( asmahan )
Eh, most people are skeptical of COVID because of the evidence.

( randomlygenerated )
Lol, I see Ovarit brought the down votes.

My first two degrees were in STEM and I'm quite leery of the COVID science. It's too politicized and there were some issues with journals publishing rapidly and then retracting bad studies, but the retractions were not as widely circulated as the initial papers. The other issue is that some of the study designs were overtly stupid (I'm talking like, Jack Turban-level stupid), but no one's allowed to talk about that, either. Granted, I stopped keeping up with the research because there was too much of it and I just don't have the time or bandwidth anymore, but I can understand why people are skeptical.

As a note, there are definitely nuts on both sides, lol.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Bi friend calling herself lesbian but dating TIMs

( arete )
Has she ever dated or expressed the desire to date any other man? If the answer is no, then it's possible that she is indeed a lesbian who has been gaslighted into accepting TIMs as women and that as a lesbian, she's obligated to include them in her dating pool. I would point out to her that transgenderism is a form of conversion therapy for homosexuals, and ask her to define woman. What does she think women are, if not a material reality grounded in biology?

( jennyd92 )
In the time I've known her she hasn't dated any normal men, or seemed to show any interest. She's shown me pictures of TIMs she's met on Tinder, saying she doesn't see them any different from "other women" (her words 🤢), and that her attraction counts as lesbian because of this. Even giving the benefit of the doubt of angles, filters and AI-malarky people use nowadays on dating apps, I really don't get how that translates once she actually meets them. Like to me there is 0% chance you could mistake a TIM for a woman even from an unedited photograph so saying she feels this way in person is honestly sickening.

I really feel that she's been gaslit, and maybe a bit isolated because of the "lockdown" nonsense we've endured the past few years.

Based on all the comments here I think I'm going to be persistent but try and be more subtle/less pushy about it. Slow and steady wins the race 😅

( WhichWitchAmI )
The TIM’s will eventually betray her. Maybe tell her one last time that lesbians don’t have sex with penis-havers and then wait for a crack to appear in her convictions. It’s nearly impossible to change a person’s mind when he or she has become defensive.

Or establish your boundaries—that you’re not going to lie about biology and that if she can’t accept that, your friendship will have to focus on other topics or activities. Be ready to talk about it if she brings it up but don’t push unless you’re willing to have it blow up on you.

( GenZ-ProWoman )
Ugh. This is a different situation but I had a close college friend who I bonded with talking historically and academically about female oppression. Once I lightly mentioned men identifying as women taking female resources and she was immediately on the defensive, making sure I knew trans women are NOT a problem because TWAW.[...]

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Now that TIFs are starting to enter gay male spaces, will things change? (Gay man here)
( solitaire )
Welcome to Ovarit, and thank you for speaking up.

I don’t know if things will change, but I am hopeful.

Where I live, some of the most hardcore trans rights activists, aside from TIPs, are lesbians or straight women whose partners came out as trans, and gay men who are personally unaffected but want to make a name for themselves.

There is one gay politician who quietly raised reasonable objections in private about gender ideology with his colleagues and had over 300 LGBT people and straight allies from his own party sign a petition demand the party “decry transphobia” and that he be dealt with. Somehow he managed to hang on to his (admittedly low profile) position, possibly because the party leader owes him (he was his campaign manager for the party leader.)

Straight and lesbian women in the same party who have questioned gender ideology have been dealt with much more harshly.

Currently, a career party bureaucrat, who AFAIK is a straight man, is currently crusading to purge the party of anyone not parroting trans fascism as gospel, I think because he sees it as the “issue du jour” and wants to make a name for himself.

I hope that as more gay men are affected they speak up, but I’m not holding my breath when it comes to my own backyard.

( braziliangayman )
A lot of gay men, just like a lot of lesbians, are too deep into the gender woo woo to do anything, unfortunately. They think they have a moral imperative to defend TIPs from TERFs because they're also part of the LGBT.

( BabbittyRabbitty )
I had this discussion with a gay friend, and he was really deep in the desillusion, not seeing at all how that was homophobic and proudly sleeping with TIFs 😰

( Tiramisuomi )
This might be the first time I've even anecdotally heard someone on the internet say that a gay male friend of theirs slept with a TIF!

Itzpapalotl , ILovePizzaALot & Artistlee19 #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Now that TIFs are starting to enter gay male spaces, will things change? (Gay man here)

( Itzpapalotl )
The level of delusion is insane. These women really, truly believe that a gay man will want to be with them?

I have a TIF friend and she is a classic case of ROGD and considers herself a gay man. It makes me squirm, it feels so wrong to appropriate the struggles of another group.

How could a female (a straight one at that) possibly understand what it’s like to be a gay man? I can’t imagine barging into a space that isn’t for me. [...]

The whole thing feels icky.

TIPs don’t realise that they have almost annihilated their prospective dating pool. No gay man is interested in a TIF, no straight woman is. Bisexuals are the only option and IME very few of us are willing to date or even sleep with these people, they’ve unnecessarily destroyed their bodies to look like something they can never be.

( ILovePizzaALot )
Yep. As a bisexual woman, I'm not interested in dating a TIP. That includes nonbinaries.

It isn't because of the rejection of gender roles. It isn't because they dress in clothing meant for the opposite sex. It's because I've never met a TIP who wasn't exhaustingly insufferable. And I don't need that kind of mental stress in my life.

( Itzpapalotl )
Ditto. I’m attracted to the natural female body and the natural male body. Not people who have unnecessarily surgically and chemically destroyed their body in a poor attempt to imitate the opposite sex.

And yes, the insufferable delusion, self-obsession and entitlement. I wouldn’t date anyone who supported gender ideology, let alone someone actively peddling it.

( Artistlee19 )
I think even most people who hook up with TIPs are just being nice and do it to tell themselves and the world that they aren’t bigots. It’s out if wanting to be seen as such a good person and not really desire I think.

( Itzpapalotl )
Agreed. TIPs kinda go against all natural human attraction (sounds bad, I know)

Like, I find both some men and some women sexually attractive - because I like both male and female features/sex characteristics...not artificially spliced together though (shudder). And that’s before we start on the delusional and entitlement required to demand everyone adhere to your fantasy.

Mandy , tahmahrah & Hermione #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Now that TIFs are starting to enter gay male spaces, will things change? (Gay man here)

( Mandy )
I'm sorry this is happening to your spaces as well, but I think it will help to turn the tide. Gay men won't tolerate it. Men, unlike women, aren't socialised to put the other sex's needs first; gay men have nothing to gain from tolerating the invasion of straight women with a yaoi fetish and nothing to lose by emphatically telling them No. The women are unlikely to come back at you with threats of rape or decapitation. To be honest, most people think TIFs are a little sad and ridiculous; everyone knows no woman can actually escape the constraints of her sex simply by claiming to be a man. In short, since society tends to prioritise the needs of men over the needs of women, transmen in gay spaces will hopefully be the thin end of the wedge that finally blows this whole thing wide open.

( tahmahrah )
Probably. Because you’re men, people will listen, take you seriously, give a shit. Nobody other than gay men want to fuck men, so there isn’t this twisted bullshit happening where your entire identity/orientation is fetishized, except for like yaoi fangirls who are a tiny subset of the population and a drop in the ocean, basically.

Now, what this actually means is that men/gay men will have their voices heard and spaces protected, gay men barring TIFs and from clubs and whatnot will be lauded as bravery, and we will continue to be the scapegoat for everything as our rights continue to be eroded away.

Long long term, all of this will collapse in on itself. It’s simply not sustainable on a list of different levels. But by then everyone will have forgotten about us, or those that remember will deny every last abuse and violation of our boundaries and rights, and radical feminists will continue to be ignored, ridiculed, and vilified.

Such is the nature of life in a man’s world.

( Hermione )
Maybe once a TIF actually hurts or kills a gay man it will become bigger news, but I imagine the ratio of TIFs being as aggressive towards gay men as TIMs are to lesbians will remain low.

And if a TIF were to harm a gay man, she would not be recognized as a TIF. She’d be painted as a homophobic, conservative “Karen” (which, in way, she is, much as I hate the term “Karen”). Her “identity” would be dumped real fast. Her time being appeased would be over.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

Are conversations with TIMs impossible?

( hontrapoints )
There's no point. He's a lost cause and probably has a creepy degenerate side he's keeping hidden from you.

It's better to cut your losses before he starts stealing your clothing and other intimate items or starts skin walking you

TIMs are all raging narcissists

( stabby )
You're right. I decided today to take steps to finally back away from this nightmare. He's already told me that he wants to look like me, and he told me some creepy degenerate things that were his "first inclination he's trans" (eyeroll). At the time I was blindly tying to be a good friend, pushing aside the cognitive dissonance of it all, but I am finally done.

( hontrapoints )
I totally understand. Prior to peaking, I'd somehow consistently managed to attract TIM friends and always tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, wanted to believe they had pure intentions for wanting to be a woman, and were actually suffering from dysphoria. I tried to dismiss the disgusting things they'd say as being "awkward."

They all ended up being creeps. And it took me until peaking to realize just how creepy they all were. [...]

I wholesale dropped contact with every TIM I even had the vaguest familiarity with and I'd suggest every woman should do the same.

( Owlchaser )
TIM reality is based on a lie. They also have a narcissistic need to force other people to see things exactly how they do and as you mention above, their mental illness takes precedent over everything else.

So not only can you have true conversations, because everything always has to stay within the boundaries of what they deem to be acceptable, but everything always has to revolve around them because of their inner dysfunction. He can't have a conversation when he needs affirmations every 2 seconds, and when reality itself is painful to discuss (due to whatever reason, including the toddlerish tantrums of not being able to always have one's way).

( mathlover )
You can't have a reasoned discusssion with cult members or inveterate narcissists. And the men who larp as "women" are both. This man is not capable of a mutually respectful equal relationship and is deeply mysogynist. There is nothing positive about him being in your life; he will do as much damage as he can as long as you continue the relationship. Excise him, like you would a malignacy.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Rethinking my friendship with a TIM

( drinkwater )
For all women, please, you do not need to look past shit to be friends with a man. You don't need to be friends with a man period. He wears his fetish out in the open. Quite literally signaling he's a pervert. Frankly I don't think a woman can get a clearer sign of danger, he doesn't even hide it.

( RisingUp )
Is this a case of you getting in your head about it, or are these thoughts the result of your gut trying to tell you something about the friendship?

I got a bad feeling when you said you’d confided in him a lot, because it seems like some TIMs mentally store that kind of thing up and use it in their woman roleplay, and it’s wildly creepy. But I could be way off. Just trust your instincts.

( FlannelRiot )
I’ve had a few TIM friends over the years, mostly back when I was in my mid to late 20s. I ended up dropping all of them once I learned more about the transgender movement and the dangers it poses to actual women. I slowly began to pull away from them, and then eventually ceased all communications. We were never friends irl (thank god), just online, via Discord (Discord is crawling with TIMs). 3 of the 4 I knew were also battling some kind of addiction to porn (mostly 2D anime stuff), and that seems to be a common theme with them. One, was even a crossplayer for a popular anime fandom. Whenever I would bring up my concerns with their unhealthy addiction to it, I’d be met with anger outbursts, so that was another thing that ultimately drove me away.

[...]

( DurableBook )
If your trans friend holds to the misogynist concept of genderism, then I struggle to see how you'd be able to have a meaningful friendship. Genderism necessarily means that he cannot view you (nor any female person) as a full and complete human. He can only be "friends" with you in the way that a man is friends with his dog.

This is true of all genderists, in my opinion, not only trans ones. The belief that gender is an innate quality rather than an imposed hierarchy erases so much of human experience, personality, and individuality, that I do not believe it is possible to have meaningful relationships with those who hold that view. And yes, this means the majority of people on Earth.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: If men collectively refute gender ideology, all the madness will stop today

( shewolfoffrance )
I've thought for a long time that gender woo won't be defeated, partially or in full, until men are forced to care. I think the most likely win would come from fathers deciding that they don't want horny men and boys who claim to have ladybrain showering with their daughters.

I think most men are fundamentally incapable of caring about anyone who isn't personally attached to them. When Jordan Peterson spoke out against Bill C-16, his main concern was freedom of speech; not women and children's safety, privacy, and dignity. When Matt Walsh made What Is a Woman, one of his primary motives was "because I care about truth."

Freedom of speech and truth are both extremely important. But Peterson and Walsh, probably two of the most recognizable names in anti-gender ideology discourse, were more motivated by esoteric principles than women's and children's safety and health.

It's a luxury that only men have. Women have been yelling from the rooftops for decades now that letting the penis-havers into female-only spaces will result in rape and abuse. That's apparently not enough to make males, who hold the majority of government and financial power, care.

( drdeeisback )
'that they don't want horny men and boys who claim to have ladybrain showering with their daughters' OTOH they don't want to preclude the chance that they can shower with other men's daughters.

( MiMi2013 )
That's part of the problem : Non trans people STILL are convinced that all trans woMEN are Sad Gay Men, who are ashamed of wanting other men to fuck them, have all had GRS, and pose no threat to women and girls whatsoever. Whether the HSTSs ever were harmless is an entirely different issue, but today's AGP transbians seem to make up the bulk of trans woMEN, and they most definitely are a threat, as they keep proving over and over and over and...Jazz Jennings aside, most trans woMEN do NOT have the slightest interest in those male commenters at all; it's irrelevant to them if MEN say they won't date trnswoMEN.

( WatcherattheGates )
They say no to having sex with them personally. But bros before hos--they will not say no to other men violating women's boundaries. It's patriarchy in a dress, that's all.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

BS. Why would a man not be treated as a man and act like one before AND after putting on a spinny skirt?
image

( CruelEnnui )

Typically, trans girls are not socialized as cis boys, do not absorb the same social messages, and are not treated the same way.

Where do they get all that male entitlement from then?

Also, if it's impossible to tell someone's gender identity by just looking, how would people know that they're trans girls and not cis boys?

( kayfabe )
That wage gap comment is gold. If it were true (I doubt it) it’s likely due to the verry common phenoms of TIMs becoming too “dysphoric” to work due to their not-a-mental-illness, trying to live off gofundme grifts and being classic basement dwelling NEETs.

( IntuitiveStains )
How can they get away with saying "trans girls aren't socialized like cis boys?" Why do they think that? They're literally males who were raised male until whatever age gender woo got to them. Why do they think they're immune to male socialization? Is it because they were just so ""sad"" and ""dysphoric"" that they didn't absorb male socialization? Lol, how the fuck does that work?? I was sad and angsty going through my own puberty but it didn't make me reject my sex-based socialization.

It just infuriates me, because it's like they totally know that they have male socialization, but like most other rejections of a sex-based reality, they feel a bit awkward and uncomfortable accepting themselves as a male wearing a dress, so they need to bend literal reality to make themselves feel better.

( no- )

They're literally males who were raised male until whatever age gender woo got to them.

At no point will they stop being treated and socialized as male. To be treated like women, they would need to perfectly pass as female 100% of the time, which is almost impossible, and even then all they have to do to escape misogyny is quit impersonating the opposite sex. Women don’t have that option.

littleowl12 , Ginger & Scoobygirl #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Have you seen people recently back off being TRAs?

( littleowl12 )
I'm seeing that about a lot of things, but gender most of all. I think the fad has crested, too many horror stories are coming out, and the left establishment in America has gone very, very quiet. It's still a loud issue in Scotland, but I've noticed the American left is suddenly very busy.

And busy about stuff that matters, like abortion rights, inflation, the invasion of Ukraine and expansionist Russia, the looming drop of China's population.

What's going to be really scary......is the anger that follows.

The leader of the Church of Scientology is David Miscavige. His father Ron escaped in his old age. He said in an interview before he died, the hardest thing was looking at himself in a full length mirror, pointing to his reflection, and saying "You got conned." He said it was the most awful emotion he ever felt. He didn't narrow down whether it was sadness or rage.

That's going to be a big deal. We got conned. I'm worried how the SJW movement as a whole is going to set society back, because they saturated it with so much hucksterism. We're not the only ones that got conned- MAGA definitely did, too.

But transgenderism is gruesome. Horrible surgeries, often performed on children. Foul fetishes.

I don't know.

It's going to be bad.

( Ginger )
I've definitely noticed that far fewer people have to inject their "jkr is a transphobe" sentiments any time anything Harry Potter comes up.

I think between seeing actual TIMs in sports, the growing number of detransitioners, and the utter lack of "transwomen" speaking out after the Supreme Court ruling on abortion (weird, because I thought TWAW.... /s), a lot of lefties are discovering they backed the wrong horse.

( Scoobygirl )
I've noticed it in my circle of homeschoolers - girls that were insisting they were boys a few months back are all nonbinary now, which I am hopeful is a way for them to ease out of all this nonsense. Their mothers, once very loud and proud TRAs, are much quieter on the issue now as well. I think initially it felt great to have this special trans status, but once all the kids declared themselves as something special (pansexual, demisexual, two spirited are some of the dumbass labels I've seen posted on FB) they all started to look around and realize how stupid it all is.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: It finally happened - I got asked my "pronouns"

( GCRadFem )
I have only been asked this on medical forms. I cross it out and write female instead.

I have a tiny, niggling concern that medical staff or organizations will write TERF on my chart at some point and if hospitalized, it will affect my care.

( redacted )
its a legitimate concern given the woman in the UK who had an operation cancelled because she complained when receiving care from a TIM after specifying she only wanted care from females.

its ludicrous cos if we take this to its logical consequences, any medical problems that have sex based differences in presentation, or efficacy of cures, and going to be made worse. yet we, not the medical professionals, are the evil ones for caring about sex. the medics i know privately don't subscribe to it thankfully, but you can't really find out easily when recieving treatment.

( vulvapeople )
It figures they won't just ask patients if they identify as trans or some other "gender". That would actually be relevant in a medical context since TIPs are permanent medical patients, have a lot of complications that aren't really typical for either sex, have a lot of risk factors that are far and away worse than comparable populations, and of course will raise hell if someone gets their pronouns wrong. But since they can't be "singled out" even in a medical context where it really matters, we all get to suffer.

( ProFreedom )
Good one. We do need to resist. My answer will be - are you asking me to lie? I won't participate in a fiction that causes so much harm by its coerced compliance.

( hmimperialtortie )
Refer to me as votre majesté in person and sa majesté when I’m not there, and expect a lecture if you mispronounce it.

( sarstan )
If they force me to be woke I will be so woke they will wish I was just a TERF.

SakuraBlossoms , GenderHeretic & Itzpapalotl #transphobia ovarit.com

“The pinnacle of progressivism”
image

( SakuraBlossoms )
The "4th step of genocide" is when you still can't take away everyone's freedom of speech to not call you by your delusions?

( GenderHeretic )
Genocide is when things don't go their way all the time. Whenever they reach into the cookie jar and there's none left because they ate them all, that's genocide. If it's raining when they wanted to go to the park, that's genocide. If they only got thirty-six presents for their birthday when last year, last year they had thirty-seven, that's genocide.

( Itzpapalotl )
My god. How fucking disrespectful these idiots are to survivors of actual genocide. Have these people never heard about what happened to people in Rwanda? In Armenia? In the holocaust?

They are appropriative, narcissistic, self centred, completely deluded pieces of human waste.

People not bowing to your every whim, not changing their language to adhere to your delusion, refusing to ignore reality in order to protect your feelings, women refusing to be redefined by men...that’s what they are calling genocide?

They’ve brought this backlash on themselves with their delusion, their misogyny, their homophobia, their predation and indoctrination of children. These entitled men are getting what they deserve. It’s not genocide but it’s a healthy and predictable pushback to a dangerous and twisted movement.

Edited to add. The Weimar Republic was a time of debauchery and rampant sexual assault/rape. It was good for men, not so good for women. These fools tell on themselves constantly.

( GenderHeretic )
It's true that they're treated with more hostility, disgust and hatred than they used to be. Because people used to give the benefit of the doubt and trust that trans was Gay Rights 2.0 and they "just wanted to pee", and now they can see that we're actually talking about a bunch of raving violent fetishists dismantling women's rights, banning free speech, banning all child safeguarding and trying to recruit as many children as possible into becoming elective lifelong medical patients.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

You Meet More Perverts When You're Poor

( Mapleshade )
And it’s disgusting TiMs act like they’re at risk because the perverts don’t want them. They want women - real women not males masquerading as women. The men who like raping and hurting women aren’t interested in males they want to hurt women. They want to rape and hurt females. For them to act like they have any idea of your pain and our pain is disgusting. They have nothing to fear because they’re male and other males can clock them.

( pennygadget )
If a TIM doesn't want that oppression, he can take the lady costume off. The rest of us don't have that luxury

( GCRadFem )
I only disagree with this statement:

But the girls who make the rules now, they don’t see any reason why a couple of “bad apples” should prevent poor suffering homosexual men from being able to live their true authentic life in the body they deserve.

It is not the”poor suffering homosexual men” wanting to live life in their “authentic body” it is the men with an AGP paraphilia. That is an important distinction. If a homosexual man is a drag queen (hate to even write it) he knows he is a gay man and he doesn’t live in his dress unless he is really an AGP.

( RisingUp )
I think the author knows that’s wrong. It’s supposed to be from the libfem POV.

It might be too generous to them though. Many of them know lots of TIMs are perverts, and simply don’t care about the lower class women they hurt.

various commenters #transphobia #sexist ovarit.com

TIMs "attacked with misandry and transandrophobia"
image

( Hera )
Being a transwoman is always a red flag that the man in question probably isn't trustworthy and one should be very wary when interacting with him, but omg, if a man just flat out doesn't try to look like the opposite sex and still has gall to say "I'm a woman" that's not a red flag, that's a wholeass alarm bell and you run. He's a predator.

( ScaryHairyQuiteContrary )
If it’s not the testosterone, explain why men commit 99% of murders and sexual assaults.

Just because? That’s even worse. Did the male who wrote this even think this one through? (Clearly no lmao)

( nopenottoday )
That's a really good question that for all of my years in feminist circles I still don't have a good answer to. If it's not the testosterone that makes men so much more violent than what exactly is it? It MUST be the testosterone. In fact, isn't sociopathy linked to higher production of testosterone during the fetal stage? It's almost like the more "male" a man is the more violent and empathy-less he is.

Edit: I just looked it up again and apparently it's a relationship between both testosterone and cortisol. So high levels of both are needed for sociopathy to flourish in a person. So maybe that's why men who have higher than average testosterone that also grew up in stressful environments are the most likely candidates for extremely violent offenders, like serial killers. But I still think testosterone is to blame for a lot because plenty of average-testosterone men are still extremely violent.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24631306/

( vampires_teabag )
I dont think its testosterone solely, although its effects mediate the reasons why males are the way they are, its a holistic fact of their differential investment in reproduction and their strategies they use to compete for mating, and acquire females for mating. You can get low testosterone males to become extremely violent in the right circumstances, if they feel insecure in this way, and high testosterone ones to be placated, if it is totally in their power. Women arent violent in the same way, even if on testosterone, since they have none of these motivations, and it doesnt benefit them reproductively, sexually or socially to act this way.

ProMoleratWaxer #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Why aren’t true trans working harder to root out the AGPs?

"why aren't moderate incels working to disavow extreme incels"

because they are just various degrees of same hate movement, for example eli elrick is a violent serial rapist who confessed to ir and is still applauded and is doing some University of California Santa Cruz phd program while still interconnected with activism right now (btw TRAs bullied the victim into suicide allegedy), the tooth gap guy who i can't remember the name of has felony drug trafficking charges and is still trying to distribute drugs to kids.

They glofify the work of nazi genital transplant surgeons (which also catastrophically failed) who then went on to torture masses of jews to death in ww2. The founder of the gender identity sociology theory is someone who no consensually experimented on a male infant practiced on him infant cosmetic genital surgery and forced him to simulate sex acts on his also underage brother to make him a 'bottom'. Produced child porn of them under the gauze of 'genital inspections' and they both killed themselves compounded by these actions. You can watch the interview here where the victim asked whether he had to commit suicide for the experiments to be regarded as unsuccessful

it's not a bug its a feature even famous ones try to get child rapist + murderers leniency because they're the same religion.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Why aren’t true trans working harder to root out the AGPs?

( ProxyMusic )
Listen, I know most of us don’t believe in true trans and I’m not sure I do either, but how many TERFs started out fine with the idea of HSTS and then peaked because of depraved AGPs?

You're presuming an either/or categorization that I don't think exists. The fact is, AGPs can be and are just as much "true trans" as HSTSs. And plenty of HSTSs have AGP too. In fact, I believe that the vast majority of gay TIMs especially today have AGP.

As I see it, AGP is a sexualized expression of male narcissism driven by the male libido and male sexual fantasies inspired by pornography that can be found among self-absorbed, vain, preening, porn-consuming boys and men who are attracted to, enthralled by and/or aroused by the external trappings of "femininity" - regardless of their sexual orientation.

Those who believe in "true trans" say that to be legitimately "trans" requires having "gender dysphoria." But AGPs have just as much "gender dysphoria" as HSTS males who don't have AGP and TIFs do. In fact, sexologists like Blanchard and Bailey say, and some women acknowledge, that the erotically-driven "gender dysphoria" of men and adolescent boys with AGP is often the most painful, overwhelming, persistent and hard to bear and treat kind of "gender dysphoria" of all.

( Juniperius )
They're vastly outnumbered, and if they do try to push back against the agps they're called "truscum" and hounded out of the community for being transphobic.

( Kriegerin )
My guess is because most trans males are indeed AGP. I think it's something like 80%+ of trans identified men. The AGPs ARE the trans movement, at least by far the most visible transes. I can name Dick Levine, the creepy barbie pouch guy, Bruce Jenner, Tits McGee with the sex toy breasts, the creepy philosophy tube guys, the two German Parliament members, yaniv, ....

But hsts i only know the Blaire White dude.

( Tiramisuomi )
I feel like they feel an affinity to men no matter how much they claim to be women inside, and so they think even the worst among them deserves an outstretched hand to help them up.

They "escaped" the "prison" of being men and figured out a way to make otherwise "kill all men" women fawn over them, date them, and certainly no longer hold them in vitriolic regard. They want to help other men ascend.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Why aren’t true trans working harder to root out the AGPs?

( SecondSkin )
Why don’t decent men police and fix other men? Why don’t the good husbands, fathers, brothers and sons, ensure that other men aren’t raping, murdering and terrorising their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters?

It’s the same answer imho. Women and girls don’t matter enough to them. Even the decent men out there will believe they’ve done their bit by not treating us poorly, they won’t believe they have any responsibility for how other men treat us. At least not 99% of them. We can see the odd ‘true trans’ loudly speak up about the risk apg pose- Yardly did this, to the extent he had death threats, doxxed, dragged through court for ‘transphobia’. He was honest that TRAs were predator cultists grooming young lesbians, very vocally through the early years of this. One of Maya’s solicitors was a TiM who backed women all the way. There are a few rare men who can reflect on the power and privilege they have because of being male, and will use it to police other men’s behaviour towards women, even at cost to themselves. But these are the very very rare exceptions. 99.9% of men will not put themselves out for women (and I’m sure those who do have other flaws also).

( drdeeisback )
It's also the 'racket' that benefits the 'good men'. What worth is a 'good man' doing the minimum (not to say your examples are the 'minimum', the two you've mentioned do sound like they've honestly put their own reputations and peace of mind on the line to support women) if there aren't any 'bad men' to compare to? 'Aren't you lucky you have me around to protect you from them/aren't you lucky you've got me, one of the good ones? [even if I don't do my share of the housework/childcare and expect you to live up to standards I don't hold myself to]'

( DietCokeAddict )
If I’m wandering around in a cat costume pretending I’m a cat, the absolute last thing I should do is point out other people’s cat costumes and tell them they aren’t real cats. That’s the situation trans people are in - there’s no such thing as “true trans” because no human can or ever will change sex. Their only two options are to keep saying “no debate! No questions!” or admit that they’re all pretending and give up the whole charade.

( Inez )
You're asking why are men, acting like men. Because they're MEN.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Why aren’t true trans working harder to root out the AGPs?

( Omina_Sentenziosa )
Those AGPs are the reason why tru trans got legal and political advancements. It was sexually abusive perverts who made trans a brand that got sold on social media and to the greater public.

Tru trans might be slightly saner than AGPs (highly debatable as far as I am concerned), but ultimately they are equally nonsensical and their ideology is based on the same "womanhood is a state of mind" mantra. Their position can be shredded to pieces just as easily as AGPs' s, so they need AGPs' s aggressiveness and their economical/social backing. AGPs are vindictive assholes, I don' t think it' s too farfetched that they might concoct a way to get their privileges while at the same time excluding their enemies, even when they are part of the same community.

So basically, going full force against them means that if tru trans are successfull, they get pushed back together with AGPs by society and the government, and if they fail, AGPs get their privileges and tru trans still get pushed away.

( Yemaya )
That’s a good point. So called true trans benefit from the rich AGP that can change laws and policy and make their surgeries easier to get so they sit back and don’t say anything.

And many “true trans” want to be “stealth” and then speaking out would ruin that.

( Hollyhock )
30 years ago the HSTS pretty much left women alone. They were gay men who primarily got boob jobs and dressed like drag queens. You'd encounter them in clubs and in very large cities but that's it. In fact, when the first bathroom bill thing happened in S. Carolina my first thought was, "is there even a single transvestite in the entire state?!?!?" I thought it was the GOP making a mountain over a single very mentally ill young girl.

The AGPs were monitored better by society.

Was I naive!

However, those HSTS weren't exactly allies to women. I remember them being jerks to women in clubs and grabbing us to try to see what real boobs felt like.

I just don't believe in the true trans vs. fakers...it's all some version of men trying to invade womanhood.

( pennygadget )
Part of the reason so many on the left support this shit is because they foolishly believe that all "trans-women" are harmless, twinky gay men. They're unaware of the tsunami of AGPs who make up 90% of the modern "trans-women" community

pennygadget , CeruleanPisces & hypatia #transphobia ovarit.com

Trans protestors shut down McGill University talk on women's rights | Daily Mail Online

( pennygadget )

The protest was organized by trans activist Celeste Trianon, who said she was 'surprised, shocked and disgusted' by the subject of the talk.
'I feel like there's such a tragic irony where someone who is actively working toward dismantling human rights toward one of the most marginalized groups ... How such an event can be hosted at the McGill Centre for Human Rights and Legal Pluralism,' she told CTV.
She added that the talk would lead to the deaths of trans people.

So melodramatic.

If simply discussing female civil rights leads to the death of trans people, than maybe trans people aren't fit for this earth. Why does Mr Celeste think its incumbent on women to sacrifice our rights, safety, and lives for the sake of trans people? Oh right! Its because he's an entitled, sexist MAN who thinks women only exist to serve as emotional support animals (and fuck toys) for men like him.

Also, LOL at trans people being "the most marginalized group". This dude probably calls his mom a "nazi" when she buys him the wrong flavor of Hot Pockets

( CeruleanPisces )
When are people going to realize this is just men oppressing women as per usual? What if the talk was about mens rights vs trans rights?

( CeruleanPisces )
Lastly, if trans rights are so important to protect, and so badly requiring protection like they say they are, surely it would hold up to the scrutiny of a debate then?

Why do they fear open honest debate?

I know I can defend my stance on being a "terf", so why can't they defend their stance on their opinions?

Wait, wait, wait. They can't be lying about all of it can they?

( pennygadget )
The speaker who was targeted in this incident was a man. If it had been a woman giving the same talk, the mob likely would have behaved worse

( hypatia )
These are frustrated men who long for battle. They are chafing at the mediocrity and boredom of their privileged lives and desperately want to prove themselves by conquering enemies in battle.

Their male urges are understandable, but also act as further proof of how unwomanly they really are.

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

Some Trans People Are Preparing to Flee the US and Seek Asylum Abroad

( BondiBlue )
Sweden is reversing course because the evidence doesn’t stack up for mutilating troubled kids. Canada remains stubborn for now but I don’t think it’ll be that way forever. Maybe TRAs should go and seek asylum in, you know, an actual asylum, where they can be counseled away from their delusion, or segregated away from normal people who do face a threat from their deviant paraphilia.

( Every-Man-His-Own-Football )

“I was like, ‘Wait a minute, this is crazy,” Willgohs remembered thinking. “I can actually declare asylum just because I’m trans?’”

Almost like it's a privilege.

( assignedpooratbirth )

“ draconian legislation that criminalizes their very existence,”

The person that wrote this article is a fucking dork. No, being told you can’t use the women’s room doesn’t “criminalize your existence.” Use the other bathroom.

( KittyWhawWhaw )
It’s just as bad as torture, murder, rape, or any other human rights violation, if not worse!- not getting to use the woman’s bathroom. Oh the humanity!

( worried19 )
Real question, what are trans people so upset about? They're not hunted down and beaten and killed on the streets in the USA. Thank God, of course.

It's also not like it was 40 or 50 years ago when trans women were forced to work as street prostitutes or nightclub entertainers because they couldn't get gainful employment elsewhere. Trans people are mostly mainstream. They're able to to get jobs. They're able to get housing. They're able to get married to a partner of either sex.

Medical transition is not being threatened for adults at all. As far as I know, no one is proposing outlawing hormones or surgeries for legal adults. So what's preventing them from living their lives happily and safely in the USA?

( Stealthygal )
Where? Iran?

( Mandy )
Being forced to wear the hijab will be really affirming for them; euphoria all day long.

( KittyWhawWhaw )
Let’s see how long their little game of dress up lasts there. Must be nice to be able to be a woman only when it’s convenient…

BondiBlue #transphobia #enbyphobia #ableist ovarit.com

RE: How much longer do you think the TRA movement will last and what do you think the next big topic will be?

I don’t know when this will “end” if ever. But I hope that if/when this movement peaks, the next step will be reversal of the policies and recompense, including apologies from the major institutions and governments that were captured by this, and a naming and shaming (and mass firing) of its most prominent advocates (like the Pritzkers, Rothblatt, and the paragons of so-called q~eer theory).

I want public statements on record that no child is born in the ‘wrong’ body, sex is physical and immutable; ‘gender’ is a set of stereotypes; there is no such thing as “non-binary-gender”; and especially, a woman is an adult human female. I want that chevron flag designated a homophobic and misogynistic hate symbol, the q~eer swastika (note: the Nazis’ designation for gay people they sought to eliminate was, infamously, a pink triangle, just like the sharp spear gutting the LGB rainbow like an invading army).

As for what the next “thing” is or ought to be, I hope to see a return to empirical evidence, rational inquiry, and open debate in the academy. If it’s junk science, call it that based on the facts, rather than because it doesn’t check these or those boxes in a DIE statement. Or because even broaching X subject purportedly “opens the door to genocide.”

In terms of what I would like to see as the next ideology to fall, because I have a personal stake as a sufferer of mental illness, I hope it’s “mad pride”/“neurodivergency” and its cousins in “crip pride.” I want honest studies to be done on the biological roots of things like schizophrenia, autism, and A.D.H.D. with intent of finding a cure. Not this TRA-mimicking, Woke Scientology nonsense that brands someone a Nazi eliminationist because he or she wants to be normal (oh, how they hate that word) rather than suffer from a broken brain. There are even people who want spinal cord research kiboshed because it supposedly discriminates against “people of diverse mobility.” I kid you not.

[...]

various commenters #transphobia ovarit.com

( cyrus )
How much longer do you think the TRA movement will last and what do you think the next big topic will be?
There will always be TRAs, but it it seems that the movement is losing ground and that more and more people are becoming tired of them. I give them 3-5 years till the movement becomes pretty much dead. I think it will be a mixture of people getting annoyed by them and the TRA allies getting bored of the topic, after awhile there's only so much you can say.

What topic do you think will replace them?

( redacted )
the movement might die in that time but repealing the legislation they have pushed through, and undoing the instituitional capture, will take much longer.

the fact that prominent TERFs are in a position where, to get their voices amplified and money to do their work, they sometimes end up working with very right wing organisations that want to remove our reproductive rights and push us back towards traditional womens roles makes me worry that the next steps will be steps backwards. i.e. we will get our single sex spaces back but lose ground elsewhere. i hope i'm wrong.

i understand why those women do that, we need all the money and airspace we can get and the dangers of TRAs are so widespread that the calculation of losing some rights to safeguard others works out such that it might be worth it in the short term. but i'm not optimistic about the short to medium term. we are facing attacks from all angles.

( Rheya )
Great point. Even if/when this fades, our institutions, governments, laws, and organizations will take a long time to recover and get back on course. I’m optimistic that the pendulum won’t swing too far the other way, but it’s still going to take a massive effort to hold the line and then reclaim what we’ve lost.

( drdeeisback )
It's hard to imagine how this will all be rolled back when I literally am asked my 'gender identity' on institutional forms, and the other day was expected to state on a form whether I 'identified as disabled' (at this point I just 'decline to state' anything that has to do with 'identifying as' anything, as I don't identify as anything)--on the other hand, this all happened very quickly, maybe it can disappear just as quickly, who knows.

It also worries me that so many kids are being taught gender ideology as 'fact'--not sure how difficult it will be to undo that, when they learn it so young.

various commenters #enbyphobia ovarit.com

True
image

( opreroma )
Did anyone else think of Ezra Miller right away?

While I feel safer with the "they/them" females, they still scare me. They are prone to meltdowns and (in my experience) self-harm.

( 324B21 )
They/them females can be mean as fuck, too

( TrustYourself )
With they/them women I think either spicy straight or mental health.

Ezra miller is the vibe for they/them men - they want closeness to women without scary MAN LABEL or they are trying out before going TIM.

( danaseilhan )
That's my daughter. Mental health. She's bi (her first romantic partner was a girl!).

Definitely prone to meltdowns, too.

THERAPISTS: Uh, I can't fix you in, like, five minutes? So it's definitely a gender issue.

ME: 😐

( Artistlee19 )
Short hair makes them QUeEr

Meanwhile, they have no attraction to the same sex and often hook-up with other they/thems of the opposite sex.

( Tortoisemouse )

While I feel safer with the "they/them" females, they still scare me. They are prone to meltdowns and (in my experience) self-harm

Nothing like as scary as the males, but you are right the female NBs are scary in their own way. Meltdowns, tantrums, bullying, manipulation, emotional aggression (at least, this describes the one I know at work who tried to get me fired).

( FutureBreedMachine )
Female NBs are just next level annoying NLOGs [note: NLOG = Not Like Other Girls]