#interphobia

Erasure, hate, and other forms of prejudice towards people who do not cleanly fit into the anatomic sexual binary.

sanitycheck , Edelgard & IrishTheFrenchie #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

( sanitycheck )
Do you think the tide is still turning?
I expected there to be public outrage after Imane Khelif. But business as usual. No one woke up after watch that man hit that woman. I really dont get it. Even if a woman dies in a boxing match. I still dont think men or people paid by men to push the TRA narrative will care at all. And I dont think we're ever going to get to some of these normies either. Its really dispiriting hearing people say Carini was a cry baby and a bad loser and weaponising her femininity and all sorts of other nonsense. People clearly just hate women.

Maybe im in a particularly upsetting place with my mood. What do the women here think? do you have more reason to think we might ever make it out of this madness? do you think the world will peak at some point?

( Edelgard )
Whether the tide is turning or not, I have no idea.

But the wave of support for Khelif is directed at what people believe is a woman with a DSD. That they're wrong doesn't matter, what matters here is that you can't use that as a way to gauge their support of trans ideology. For a particularly obvious and extreme example, all the Algerian tweets I've read on the topic - and I've read a lot - said something like: "Imane is a woman, we don't support degenerate LGBT shit here".

Obviously this controversy is weaponized by TRAs to claim that TIMs are the same as women with DSDs, that "transphobia" hurts real women too, but I don't think anyone changed their mind over this.

Anyone who wasn't peaked by Lia Thomas, an unambiguous male competing in women's swimming because competing with men would hurt his fee-fees, wasn't going to be peaked by a boxer who may or may not have XY chromosomes according to a federation that people don't trust - again, whether people are right to distrust the IBA is another matter entirely.

( IrishTheFrenchie )

But the wave of support for Khelif is directed at what people believe is a woman with a DSD.

I'm sorry, but they SAY they believe Khelif is a woman with a DSD, but we all know if they actually thought that, they wouldn't give a single fuck. They defend him BECAUSE they know he's a man.

RuneOwl #transphobia #interphobia ovarit.com

RE: What is the ideal endgame for you concerning gender ideology?

1. Sex segregated spaces for women and girls (bathrooms, locker rooms, prisons, etc.) will be universally protected, with mandatory jail time and lifetime sex offender registration for men who are caught infiltrating. Repeat offenders will be either institutionalized or imprisoned for life

[…]

3. Total and complete ban on male inclusion in organized women’s athletic competitions on every level, from high school sports to the Olympics. Violating this rule is punished as a form of cheating that warrants a lifetime ban from all future competition, even in the men’s division. Zero exceptions. This applies not just to TIMs, but intersex men with a Y chromosome (you’re not a woman just because your balls are on the inside, Caster Semenya). Women’s sports will no longer be seen as a category that failed men can be lumped in with

4. Stringent free speech laws that protect people, especially GC women, from being deplatformed or discriminated against. We have the right to press hate crime charges against trans activists who attempt to use intimidation, threats, or slander to silence feminist critics. Under no circumstances is “misgendering” or “deadnaming” a punishable offense, and it is illegal to compel anyone to use special pronouns

5. Total ban on both medical transition and any manner of “gender-affirming therapy” for minors. Children will not be allowed to socially transition, either—schools will have to protect GNC minors, and genuinely distressed kids will receive counseling that is structured to help them accept themselves as they are. Any parents that try to coerce or enable a child under the age of 18 to medically transition, whether it’s buying black market hormones online or taking them overseas to get surgeries, can expect to face felony child abuse charges

6. Regarding adult transitions, the medical community will move away from the “affirmation” model and return to stricter gatekeeping than ever before. It will not be considered an option at all for anyone with a criminal background or certain severe psychological disorders. Years of mandatory therapy should be required before even hormones are made available. Gender dysphoria will be understood as the severe mental illness that it is and not a normal thing like sexual orientation

…

dobby , OwnLyingEyes & glimmer #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

JKR faces legal repercussions for attacking a cis woman[sic] but not trans people? Double standards much??
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( dobby )
“cis woman”?

Isn’t Khalif a biological male? They may not be a trans-identifying male, but but biologically they are male.

That seems relevant in the matter of fairness in women’s sports no matter how much people want to ignore this athlete’s biology.

Also, this twitter person sounds unhinged.

( OwnLyingEyes )
Yes, he's a biological male, however he was (probably) mistaken for female at birth, which allows them to call him a 'cis' woman since that would have been his 'assigned gender at birth.' Yet another reason to not use their stupid term. Only women are women, women are female, and so as Khalif isn't female he's not any kind of woman.

( glimmer )
And since "cis" is a completely made up term anyway. He may be "cis" but there is no doubt every cell in his body is XY male. And I think there's LITTLE doubt he identifies as a male as well in private.

This is why I'm not "cis" "trans" or anything else but a WOMAN on the basis of being biologically female.

various commenters #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

( Dusty )
Does anyone else feel like they're the only sane person in the asylum?
I was watching Khelif's latest interview, in this one he's wearing makeup and acting very demure and "feminine", unlike every other time we've seen him flexing his muscles and every other video or picture of him where he's barefaced and strutting around and posing like a "cool guy".

So now, you'd expect anyone with eyes to see that he's putting on a performance, right? No, suddenly it's "See! She was a woman all along. Look how feminine she is here!"

I mean, this a joke, surely? Are people really buying this bullshit? It's like watching the world's worst confidence man dressing up as a woman to scam idiot aristocrats in a 60s screwball comedy. To the audience, it's obvious the conman is a man dressed as a woman, and we all laugh as the dumb aristocrat fawns over them and calls them a beautiful woman. I mean, as a society, we used to understand the joke, we used to see this for what it was. What's happened?

( NoName )
They know he's a man. They're just enjoying gaslighting people.

As far as being sane, this is the only forum I can go to where this can be discussed without being shut down.

Actually, I can barely even call men out for violence against women. That gets me called a "misandrist" and people pretend just as many women beat up men as the other way around. It's nuts.

I feel sane here. Y'all are sane.

( Dwarfjade )
I feel crazy too. No one irl wants to hear me complain about two people with Y chromosomes winning women’s Olympic boxing. Oh well

( Chronicity )
Watch how people call him a “cis woman” and act like it’s ludicrous that anyone would clock him as a man. We are supposed to believe there are legions of women out there who look just like this man.

But these same people accept without question that TIMs will experience life-threatening gender dysphoria if they can’t look like women do. You know, like the complete opposite of Khelif.

( CrimsonSoleil )
That’s a great point. If women can look like this boxer, why have any surgeries at all?

various commenters #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

Women come in all shapes and sizes
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( RusticTroglodyte )
the pic with his obvious bulge showing totally kills me

( spacykate )
Also the pic of him sparring with a crotch guard. Come on.

( Jehane )
Male aggression, right there. No wonder the Italian boxer gave up after 40 seconds or so. Any woman in her right mind would be scared shitless if a man came at her looking like that.

( MaryDyer )
Yep. That pose and expression are 100% male. I’ve seen some angry women before but I’ve never seen one in such a male-typical rage-posture.

( DoomedSibyl )
It’s astounding that so many people are still insisting that he’s a fully normal woman. He’s frightening and so very, very male in every picture I’ve seen of him. People are so vulnerable to suggestion and what is essentially mind-controlled marketing and advertising. For years now I’ve wondered what things I believe that are completely false.

( KageThornback )
Not so astounding when supposedly trusted major media is running the narrative that he's female. I was having dinner with a few friends and one friend brought him up unprompted and she had a little rant about the injustice of it all. This was a pleasant surprise as I usually have to bite my tongue and consciously try not to talk about trans bullshit around these friends because they are 'normies' and I can tell they are getting bored of my rants. Sadly, as a much less pleasant surprise, the next time I met with this friend for a coffee a few days later she started telling me about how she was wrong about everything and owed 'her' an apology because she read a BBC article about how imane is just a really special woman after all.

( Sonnet )
Female people pointing out that many TIMs have recognizably-masculine features = SEXISMMMMMM! Against gender non-conforming women of course, this has nothing to do with male feelings.

Male people obsessing about their next breast augmentation or facial-feminization surgery = Well if I can’t be a woman who looks like a porn star I might as well be dead, you know?

various commenters #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

( faerieclaire )
Finally got banned from 2x for…
….saying you shouldn’t be in women’s sports if you have XY chromosomes LMAO

“2 x chromosomes” my ass, they couldn’t care less about women over there. I shared the articles from Khelif’s trainer and coach, saying he had a “chromosome/hormone problem” and that it was unfair for him to be against women etc, and even WITH the evidence, people are saying I’m lying/wrong! Yet they have no evidence of their own to share…. 🙄🙄🙄 Even that one picture with his dick clearly visible in his shorts, people are like “oh well you THINK you see a dick on her” WTF else would it be!? 💀

Hope this is the right place to post something like this, I’m just annoyed with the state of the world in general and wanted to vent for a minute

( Hex )
TwoX is males central. Creepy men who scare women in real life have a place where they can be faceless wolves in women's clothing and get all the attention and validation they want. It's always funny when you clock a TIM just from the male reek of their comments, and lo and behold, they post in TwoX or MtF subs, with a dash of weird porn subs.

( KateAmanak )
I think I just had an insight. Men are particularly drawn to the most female possible spaces specifically and profusely. So XX and lesbian subs. They end up taking over them without noticing others do exactly the same.

Sorry I know this sounds obvious but I used to think they generally took over reddit because they're just chronically online incels taking over the site generally. Now I realize there's a fetish / ego component of specifically taking that space exactly because they shouldn't. And they all equally do that by individual fetishistic reasoning without realizing that they're doing it collectively.

o_o

( RappaccinisDaughter )
It is kind of hilarious that they all think they're the only man there.

( syntaxerror )
It reminds me of that funny comic where three men are standing by themselves, naked, in a women’s locker room with horrible makeup and wigs with the caption “Well this fucking sucks.”

Or that one where a couple of wolves stand up in a flock of sheep and take off their sheep costumes once they realize that literally the whole flock of “sheep” is all wolves in sheep costumes.

( VirginiaWolfberry )
Yes, they get violation thrills. It is a feature, not a bug.

various commenters #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

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( RusticTroglodyte )
Literally nobody is saying Imane is trans. We're saying he's a man...bc he is

( a_shrub )
Why would homophobia have anything to do with sending a man that you're pretending is a woman to beat the shit out actual women? Nobody's said anything about his sexual orientation.

( overanddone )
He's not trans, sir, he's just a man. Cheating for profit and fame, who likes to hit women.

He has said he's not trans. That part we believe. He's just a poser.

( BiblikliAkyeretTerf7 )
Why do so many of these freaking idiots believe Islam is transphobic??? Why are they so sure of this "fact" when it's easily proven false?! There's a reason there are more countries in the world that accept transgenderism and have legally sanctioned it compared to countries that have accepted/sanctioned homosexuality, and the reason is: ISLAMIC COUNTRIES.

So even if the man is "trans" (which is auch a nebulous, ill-defined term as to be meaningless anyway), the fact that he is from a country that was invaded, raped, and conquered by Arab muslims would not negate that about him. AT ALL. Islam is, for the most part, fine with transgenderism. Many muslims see transgenderism as an alternative solution to homosexuality (that is, an alternative to exterminating homosexuals).

( RusticTroglodyte )
I'm pretty sure trans bullshit is outlawed in Algeria, but I could be wrong

various commenters #interphobia ovarit.com

RE: It's so disheartening seeing pro Imane rhetoric absolutely drenching Reddit.

( Novemberinthechair )
You should see You Tube. I was told to stop bullying "that woman." If I'm not mistaken, he fathered children....or maybe it was the other fraud. And a lot of them are saying, it's illegal to fake woman in Algeria! Oh wow, did you bring this shit up when the Gays for Palestine people were shouting their heads off? It's just pure hypocrisy. The country wanted to cheat....so they did. XY means male.

( MatchaMeercat )
I got downvoted to hell over the tiniest suggestion that IF Imane had 5-ARD, then they shouldn’t be competing in the female category—but most of them over thete still think Caster Semenya is merely a woman with high testosterone. They also use “intersex” as if it were a third sex and not males or females with DSDs particular to one or the other.

( RusticTroglodyte )
Caster literally fathered children! Biological children!! How can anyone still be arguing that he is a she?

( GeneralLesbian )
After 2 decades of saying TIM athletes don't have an unfair advantage, DSD Males with CAIS and AIS and their wins defeating women totally disproves this. TIMS have fully working Testosterone binding sites.

If XY CAIS/AIS should be disqualified, then so should TIMS.

( Peppermint )
And perhaps this is the exact reason why they won't disqualify any man with a DSD. At this point its obvious. Even if he "identified" as a man but wished to compete against women they wouldn't disqualify him.

( pennygadget )
The only places where we can talk honestly about this shit are ovarit and kiwi farms. Every other place is captured by the Borg

( hellamomzilla )
This will be a modern chapter to be included in Mackay’s Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. Just another in the line of crazed fits of humanity like Tulipmania and the South Sea Bubble and Young Werther copycat suicides around Europe.

( Lilith-Fair )
Fact: Imane is SUCH A TRUE and BEAUTIFUL Woman, none of those Reddit scrotes would sleep with him. Between typing they're watching porn and jerking off to XX biological women.

various commenters #interphobia #conspiracy #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Will Imane Khelif throw his last match?

( PatitaGris )
He will fight, if he were a decent or logical person he wouldn't be punching women in international live tv

( Arenlaef )
Honestly, I'm pretty sure Algeria boxing planned this entire thing, so I doubt it. Maybe that's conspiracy level shit, but they're not the first conservative country to pull something like this (I can't remember where it was, but an Islamic country once had a fully male "female" soccer team) so I think they're expecting that Gold.

( TheKnitta )
If he loses it won’t be because it was a fair fight. I’ve fought many men, and guys my height with any form of training would flatten me easily, no matter how much training I did. There’s just no comparison. At this level, with the amount of training and weight classes, no woman can beat a man unless the man is either injured, sick, or not trying. No, it’s not fair, yes, it’s frustrating and annoying as hell to be a woman in that situation, but physical reality exists. It’s pointless to pretend otherwise.

It remains to be seen as to whether he’ll do a Liar Thomas and not try in the final, just so TRAs apparently ‘win’ the ideological argument.

( OwnLyingEyes )
Think if he didn't throw his second one after the outcry around the first 46 second bout, there's no way he'll forfeit gold while it's in reach. The IOC made Carini apologize to him and have been working overtime to cover for him (and cover their own asses in the process), the media's been overwhelmingly painting him as the victim with few exceptions, I just don't see why he would at this point. Maybe in the aftermath there will be enough controversy to reinstate sex tests, but right now doubling down is a clear path to victory, just one more woman to beat up in his way.

various commenters #interphobia ovarit.com

This picture is proof. Not that picture!
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( Iggyana )
I mean, if that's a woman she's the envy of TIF's everywhere.

[...]

( FeminismIs4Women )
It's not about looks. Females in the Olympics, naturally, are almost all muscular women wearing sports gear. It's the fact that he was banned from women's boxing specifically, and the evidence so far suggests the reason was because he is a man with a DSD. That wouldn't change if he had a different appearance. If he was a woman he would address the issue and have a simple non-invasive sex test. But he won't do that because he is a biological male and he knows it. There is literally a picture where you can see he penis through his shorts.

( RusticTroglodyte )
I'm so confused why his parents would dress him like a girl if he was born with a penis. And I definitely saw that bulge

( FeminismIs4Women )
Kids with DSDs do actually sometimes get labeled as the opposite sex at birth if they have ambiguous parts. The concept was co-opted by TRAs and applied to TIP without DSDs to suit their agenda.

[...]

( iCONIC )
The support he's receiving from members of Ovarit is absurd

( TheSimbul )
What is wrong with you? This is the Olympics, not high school.

THE MAN IS A MAN, AND HE IS A CHEAT. No one should be supporting him.

Bml7864 , glimmer & LunarWolf #interphobia #conspiracy ovarit.com

RE: Khelif & Lin could easily prove they're female - if they were.

( Bml7864 )
Today I was out a overheard a group of middle aged (50s) people discussing Khelif. The man said it was a similar genetic condition as Michael Phelps, which gives people long arms and now they are saying it's an "advantage." Then he tried to say it was misogyny that they were giving a hard time to khelif because she's female but Phelps didn't get a hard time.

I don't claim to understand everything about this situation or DSDs in general, but it's crazy how wrong these people are. There was no mention of XY, dude literally thought this was about Khelif being tall or having "long arms."

These people vote.

The funniest part was their mom (late 70s) was like "oh well she shouldn't compete. I didn't know Phelps had a condition that gave him an advantage. I wouldn't have rooted for him if I'd known."

( glimmer )
The confusion is no accident. The narrative is being distorted on purpose. This person is a "cis" female athlete who was "born and raised" a girl, therefore if you oppose them in the sport you are just being transphobic??? It makes no sense.

Anyone with eyes knows that Khelif is male. Standing next to a woman it is obvious. I'm sorry he was born in a country that thinks no dick = female, but a female body is much more than just an absence of a dongle.

( LunarWolf )

Anyone with eyes knows that Khelif is male.

This is exceedingly relevant. Part of the tactic and possibly goal of this movement is to convince us we cannot trust our own senses, instincts, knowing and perception of the world. If you can’t trust your own senses and perceptions, where do you look for truth? Always and only outside yourself.

This tactic, in many forms, is how cults gain mind control of their victims. It sets the stage for a population to accept authoritarian control as inevitable and maybe even a relief.

various commenters #interphobia ovarit.com

Because women adjust their junk after a match 🙄
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( DoomedSibyl )
He even stands like a man. Look at the differences in width of shoulders and feet width apart and angle of the pelvis. Even though Carini is a tall, strong woman the differences are there.

This entire thing is a travesty.

( Redmage )
That wasn't just adjusting a wedgie, that was adjusting a boner

( IrishTheFrenchie )
Figures. I knew the "He has no penis because of a DSD" line was bullshit.

( StopThisMadness )
Right? Like which is it? Seems to me like penis wielder behavior above.

( Sebastes )
Regardless of if he was directly adjusting his junk or not, it's sus that he spent so much time looking down at his shorts and adjusting them. If it's something uncomfortable, why does he start doing that in front of the cameras rather than in the corner earlier? If I had a wedgie, I'd definitely want to fix it before standing in front of everyone watching me grab at my crotch. It's almost like he became concerned something could be visible.

( Riothamus )
OMG.

That's the "I'm adjusting my boner to hide it in tight underwear" grab. He's getting off on this!

( LogicalDocSpock )
Disgusting. He has no feminine traits whatsoever. Masculine shoulders, hips, stance, facial structure and we are supposed to believe this is a woman?? Nope

( somegenerichandle )
It's a still from Reduxx's post: https://x.com/ReduxxMag/status/1819023215609455052

( Randomwalk )
Wow, literally swinging his dick around after a victory! Can't get anymore male than that. I wonder if it was intentional, or if he's just an idiot for drawing attention to the suspiciously penis-shaped object under his baggy shorts. Unless he's a TIF with a packer lmfao /s

Jean-François Braunstein #wingnut #transphobia #enbyphobia #interphobia wook.pt

[Context: description of a book written by the fundie in question.]

A wave of madness and intolerance is sweeping the Western world. Originating in American universities, woke religion is sweeping everything in its path: universities, schools, companies, media and culture.

This religion propagates, in the name of the fight against discrimination, dogmas that are at least unheard of: Gender theory professes that sex and the body do not exist and that consciousness is what matters. Critical race theory asserts that all white people are racist, but that no racialized person is racist. Point of view epistemology argues that all knowledge is situated and that there is no objective science, not even exact sciences. The aim of the wokes is to deconstruct all cultural and scientific heritage and prepare for the establishment of a dictatorship in the name of good and social justice . It is all this and much more that Braunstein explains and contextualizes in this The Woke Religion , supported by texts, theses, conferences and essays, which he cites and explains at length, to denounce this new religion that destroys freedom. A shocking and salutary essay.

jelliknight, NastasyaFillipovna & OwnLyingEyes #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

RE: Gender Ideology should be questioned in every court case with questions about the 2 types of gametes in reproduction.

( jelliknight )
Exactly. The bottom line is anyone who has ever produced a single sperm IS MALE and anyone who has ever produced a single ovum IS FEMALE. No exceptions.

"Sex its complicated... something about mushrooms ...intersex... etc"

Sex can be complicated, but its also extremely simple and verifiable in 99.9% of humans. Have you ever menstruated out of your vagina? Youre female. Ever ejaculated out of your penis? Youre male. Made it to sexual maturity without doing either? You have some kind of condition and need to see a doctor for further testing (where they will, almost every time, be able to tell you for certain if you are male or female).

There are a few cases where an individual does fall into a grey zone, e.g. Turner Syndrome […] who could technically be said to be of neither sex. But thats absolutely irrelevant to transgenderism. Everyone else, DSD or not, is either on the Y chromosome/teste/sperm side or the X chromosome/ovary/ovum side.

"Oh but hormones... micropenis... something about social category"

Irrelevant. Sex only exists in the context of sexual reproduction, which in humans has exactly two roles; big gamete and small gamete. Thats reality. No amount of negotiation or external factors can change that.

( NastasyaFillipovna )
Till last year or so, they were conceding the point that there is a difference between Sex and Gender, ie, a Woman, and a female. But now, they have gone full unhinged into claiming that they are females.

So whatever rational arguments you present, its not gonna matter. The previous generation had it right in te first place, that these guys have a Mental disorder, like they show in the movie "Silence of the Lambs".

It should be categorized as such again, and provide them the mental care they need, not the "Surgical care". We don't say an alcoholic that they need the better tasting alcohol, we cut out their suppl/y

( OwnLyingEyes )
Agreed. Not only that, gametes are literally the definitive difference in how the sexes are classified, so the constant attempts to side-step that fact and be all 'but chromosomes sometimes have extra Xs!' or fixating on secondary sex characteristics are a pretty glaringly obvious attempt at sleight of hand.

Dale Partridge #dunning-kruger #elitist #enbyphobia #fundie #interphobia #homophobia #sexist #transphobia amazon.com

Jesus and My Gender: Affirming Your Child's God-Given Gender

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In this rhyming book for children ages 3-10, pastor Dale Partridge masterfully lays out a cohesive theological presentation of biblical gender. The content of each page is supported by Scripture references and, at the end of the book, is a 5-question biblical catechism to instill these truths in the minds of young people.

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Before the creation of the world, God designed boys and girls.

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God said boys and girls are equal, before their lord in soul, but they were made uniquely, with completely different roles.

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The crown of girls is quickly seen when people start comparing - a special privilege given them: the blessing of childbearing. The female body is extraordinary, the boys cannot relate. The girls can carry babies amd nurture those they make.

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He built his boys for rough and play, just how they ought to be. They’d pounce and battle for the day, and even jump from trees! He made them strong to guard their friends, to protect the weak, and make amends.

various commenters #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

So what happened to "HER" penis?
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spoilerTranscript:
Barbie: “But Ken, that Algerian boxer was born with a vagina.”
Ken: “So now that determines gender again?”

( Committing_Tervery )
There’s zero proof he was born with a vagina, and he even has a bulge in at least one picture.

( LasagnaRossa )
Even if he developed a vagina, he has no uterus and no ovaries because his karyotype is XY.

To my beloved lurkers: TERFs have always said that necessary condition to be catalogued female is to have the whole package (vulva, vagina, uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries) not just one aspect, especially not the most superficial one. And yes, a woman is still a woman even if she removed her uterus. You must have something first to lose it.

( TheSoupDragon )
Even if this person were born with external female-appearing genitalia and internal testes I don't see what difference it makes when they've clearly been through male puberty.

Also, addressing the meme, I saw "actually, trans women have higher levels of estrogen than cis women so they're literally more female" on twitter. They'll say whatever's convenient in the moment, even if it's something they've vehemently denied minutes earlier.

( CruddyMuddy )
No, Barbie, he wasn’t. The most he had was a shallow cavity to nowhere.

( Daphne )
People call me cruel for pointing this out, but what can I do if it's the truth? What a male with a DSD has is not a vagina. A vagina is an organ, not just a "hole".

( LasagnaRossa )
Apparently trans activists have turned tables again because somewhat we are saying that real womanhood is made by low testosterone, not the female genitals. That's their opinion.

notsofreshfeeling , Dusty & DoomedSibyl #interphobia ovarit.com

International Olympic Committee Was Warned About Male Boxers, World Boxing Organization Vice President Says - Reduxx

( notsofreshfeeling )
Does anyone know of any clips showing Khelif or the Yu-Ting speaking and gesticulating? I feel like speaking voice and mannerisms are generally pretty solid evidence. For example Caster Semenya behaves and speaks just like a man.

Edit: Evidence enough for me, I mean.

( Dusty )
Isn't it funny how that works? Even in Semenya's case I'll admit I was leaning towards his being male but was still unsure when I initially saw him compete, but once I watched one of his interviews it was the most obvious thing in the world. I mean his voice, his facial expressions, his aggression etc. There are probably a laundry list of other factors that we don't even know we notice, but the recognition of their male biology becomes pretty immediate as soon as you hear them speak and see them interact with people.

Like, even people who claim to be male or female, and those who do a good job of passing from a distance, generally give themselves away within seconds when they do an interview or you see them in person. There's always something, even people who pass as convincingly as Caroline Cossey give the game away within seconds because their presentation is far too flamboyant.

( DoomedSibyl )
So much for being socialized female. /s

various commenters #interphobia ovarit.com

Isn’t it funny, though, how they suddenly remember what the word female means?
image

( pennygadget )
There are actual female athletes who lost their Olympic spot for using medicated lip balm, smoking weed, or wearing swim caps designed for afros. But this whole ass man gets to compete in women's boxing despite having a dick and a lifetime of male puberty

( FeminismIs4Women )
They pulled the same stunt with Caster Semenya, the man with a DSD.

I think it's been established that TRAs in general either do not understand what the words female and intersex mean or they pretend to be ignorant and try to muddy the water on purpose.

( TeRadF )
is there actually any substance to what the TIMs are saying? Like is he actually intersex? I can't find more info on him. Regardless it doesnt matter because he has XY chromosomes. ;

( IrishTheFrenchie )
There is no account of him, or anyone representing him, ever saying he has a DSD. He's also never said he is trans.

Therefore, IMO, he is a regular dude with a forged document.

( Researcher1536 )
"But her passport says female, BIGOT!!!!"

various commenters #interphobia ovarit.com

RE: Swyer Syndrome

( Radical )
Just because they initially thought they were female before puberty doesn't mean it's fair for them to compete with women. The fact that they're biologically male should take priority in sports, for both safety reasons and dignity.

Although I will say demanding to compete with women, after finding out that you're overwhelmingly likely to severely injure or kill them, is extremely male-coded. A very typical example of male entitlement. You can't really get much more male than that.

( DonnaFemina )
Semenya has 5-alpha reductase deficiency, in which males (XY chromosomes) are born with apparently female genitals but at puberty their balls drop and they grow a dick. It's extremely rare, with a few clusters worldwide. The one in the Dominican Republic calls it guevedoces (dick/balls at 12).

Swyer Syndrome is a completely different DSD. It makes genetic males develop into, essentially, sterile females. https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/swyer-syndrome

Khelif does NOT have Swyer Syndrome. If he did, he would have looked female from birth and he'd look indistinguishable from a woman right now.

( Lilith-Fair )
Semenya fathered to kids. No woman in the world can inseminate another woman.

( DonnaFemina )
"Semenya fathered to kids. No woman in the world can inseminate another woman."

You will get no argument from me that Semenya is male. XY 5-ARD is a male DSD.

( CompassionateGoddess )
If there is a Y chromosome, that person is a male no matter what. It doesn’t matter what he looks like, it doesn’t matter how he was raised, it doesn’t matter if his feelings are hurt. He is a male. He is not one of us. He will never be female. He should stay out of female spaces and sports. He shouldn’t steal opportunities and resources from females. He is a male who has a difference/disorder of sexual development.

( TheTortureCouch )
People with Swyer Syndrome are female. They don't produce gametes (what primarily determines sex) but their reproductive structure is female.

( VirginiaWolfberry )
Only males can have Swyer’s. These people are male (and by the way, the cheating boxer clearly does not have Swyer’s). Biologically, those with this syndrome are male regardless of their phenotype.

LittleNipper #fundie #interphobia #homophobia christianforums.com

[regarding human hermaphrodites]

Of course ALL mutations, pain and sorrow are the result of the FALL. I'm sure that you have simplified anything I might have ever said in such a way to try to discredit and promote your own agenda. That is to your disgrace and not mine. Again, I know of no such person with such a problem; however, the reality is that if a homosexual would have sex with such because he thought the individual a male (when in fact the individual was presumably both) that would destroy the very notion that the homosexual could not have relations with someone of the opposite sex, because the reality would be that the drive was all of his imagination...

various commenters #interphobia #transphobia #sexist ovarit.com

RE: Genuine conundrum about certain people with CAIS

( Positronic_waves )
Sorry for this person, but I want to be kind to women. That means being unkind to men, rapists and in the very rare minority and some unfortunate souls with CAIS. If you never develop correctly as a man, it doesn't mean you are a woman. We are not a faulty male. Caster [Semenya] is a guy, who lived like a male except for competitions then he is a woman. I think natal sex is important, then puberty levels. If we have to exclude some CAIS people to let women win at something, we should do it. They say it never happens until they had 11 CAIS men winning womens athletics. When the difference is -10% of performance not being born a woman actually matters.

( Wokeuplate )
I think transgender and intersex are two different issues and the genderists, as per the uze, latch onto intersex as a way to stealth themselves into legitimate discourse, much the same as they did with LGB. It’s literally part of their playbook. Transgender is based on Gender Identity, which is an idiosyncratic, subjective belief system, unhinged from material reality. Intersex/DSD is a biologically based condition and has nothing to do with gendered souls or lady brains or myfeelz. The intersection between these two issues is competitive sports, where there can be male body advantages that accrue to CAIS people which have to be addressed in order to ensure fair play.

It’s really important when talking about transgender people to keep intersex as a separate topic. The recent debate with Colin Wright was frustrating in that he let very narrow examples relating to DSD be used as a proxy for TIMs. Since 99.98% of the world is not intersex of the type which gives rise to ambiguous genitalia and phenotype presentation, it is not useful to lump gender identity trans with DSD and say that they need to be addressed and accommodated similarly.

( FlorenceBlue )
IMO, still male. What we choose socially to do with that info is up for debate.

( viscerally )
Male, yes. But a woman still. In this extremely rare case, that in no way is similar to the case of trans women, I can confidently say that a male person can also be a woman - if she has the outer body of one and was brought up as one and would have always been believed to have been one of it weren’t for genetical testing.

( FlorenceBlue )
No such thing as male women.

ProxyMusic #interphobia #transphobia #ableist ovarit.com

Yes, technically it's easy enough to discover they have it. With the NIPT so cheap that it's come into extremely widespread use, and prenatal sonograms the norm even amongst poor people in poorer nations, fetuses whose karyotypes don't match their genitals are now being identified in the womb. Eventually, no one with CAIS and various other DSDs resulting in external anatomy inconsistent with their chromosomes and genes will be able to claim they didn't find out until puberty.

But that doesn't change the fact, nor will it change the fact, that legally it's not easy to keep persons with CAIS out of women's sports AT ALL. And in my comment, I was solely addressing your claim that it is "easy to keep them out of sports," which is entirely separate to the matter of public toilets - an issue that in the case of CAIS I don't care about and is not something I want to waste time getting into here.

The Caster Semenya case is soon to be heard by the European Court of Human Rights. Semenya is backed by every international "human rights" organization in the world, most of the MSM on the planet, all the powerful institutions in the Western world/Global North, including most major law firms in Europe and the Americas, and all the African and pan-African political organizations with clout and influence. The only country with a large population where the government and the general public seem to be strongly against Semenya and other XY DSD athletes being allowed into women's sports is India.

In this climate, and with all the legal decisions that have been made since the late 1980s, pray tell what exactly are the strategy and legal arguments for keeping CAIS out of women's sports? How are you - or "we" - gonna keep CAIS athletes out when the IAAF/WA have failed in being able to keep out athletes who have a range of other XY DSDs that leave no ambiguity about them being male, and there's no question that they possess the same exact male advantages that all normally-developed males do?

It was "easy enough to discover" that Martinez Patino had CAIS in the mid 1980s when MP sued the IAAF/WA. In fact, MP only sued because the mandatory sex chromosome and genetic testing then in place for all athletes seeking to compete in women's elite international sports easily discovered that MP is XY with CAIS. Yet MP won anyways, and female athletes have been losing out ever since.

Andrew Stiles, Washington Free Beacon #ableist #racist #sexist #homophobia #transphobia #enbyphobia #biphobia #elitist #dunning-kruger #interphobia #wingnut freebeacon.com

Analysis: What If Woke Liberals Didn't Get To Label Everything?
Introducing the Washington Free Beacon Alternative Style Guide for Reporting on Issues of Controversy (ASGRIC)

It goes without saying: The mainstream media is run by liberal activists. This ideological bias manifests itself in several ways, including the words journalists are allowed to use when discussing controversial issues.

(1.5 paragraphs of hyperbolic whining about how journalists are forced to write)…

The woke words and phrases used in media reports would make a lot more sense to the average American if these people weren't in charge—if journalists were forced to abide by the Washington Free Beacon Alternative Style Guide for Reporting on Issues of Controversy (ASGRIC):

Undocumented immigrant → Foreign-born fugitive from justice
Gender-affirming care for minors → Child abuse
LGBTQQIP2SAA+ rights → Gay rights
Drag Queen → Gender appropriator
Abortion → Extrajudicial fetal assassination, anti-life health care
Death penalty → Justice affirming care
Assault rifle → Freedom friend, justice dispenser
Racially inclusive → Racially obsessed
Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion → Six-figure consulting fees
Black Lives Matter → Scam PAC
Pro-Palestinian activist → Jew hater
Teachers' unions → Anti-child activists
Tax cuts → Restorative justice
Democracy dies in darkness → Democracy thrives on Jennifer Rubin columns
War on Women → Kinetic military action against individuals with an active uterus
#MeToo era → Brief period of anti-male activism from 2017 until Tara Reade's credible accusation of sexual assault against Joe Biden
Speak truth to power → Leave Joe Biden alone
Hillary Clinton → Crooked
Long Covid → Mental illness
New York City Subway → Public toilet
WNBA fans→ Liars
Soccer → Performative falling
Bicycle → Morally abhorrent nerd-conveying road hazard
Happy Holidays → Merry Christmas
God bless you → God bless America

Mayday #ableist #transphobia #crackpot #interphobia ovarit.com

RE: CAIS are men, not women, and prove sex is binary

A female is not: "identifying" as female, growing up as female, socializing as female, dressing up as female, and "passing as" female.

A woman, a female, is an organism that can bear offspring and/or produce eggs under the right conditions.

CAIS are males with an inability to respond to androgens. The product of the inability is a male with a pseudo-female like appearance, creating the illusion of a female.

Beneath the layers, CAIS have no internal female sex organs - no uterus and no ovaries. They have testes - the male gonads that produce sperm. Their bodies were supposed to support the production of sperm and failed. They are men in every sense of the word.

The only reason they even know they are intersexed is because of modern medicine

The reason humans know they are humans and not another specie is modern medicine, and study of genes. Surely you wouldn't claim humans were not humans before they learned of what separates each specie.

CAIS were not women before modern medicine. They were disordered men.

HLPhat #interphobia freerepublic.com

XX, XY, other -- It's a simple blood test - not a "pronoun" you get to choose inflict upon others depending on which way the wind blows out of your wherever that day.

XX: good to go! Please board the bus to the FEMALE barracks.

XY: good to go! Please board the bus to the MALE barracks.

Other: thanks for applying, but we don't have the resources to expend on your special physical and mental care. Ask the special folks with psoriasis how they serve humanity, OK?

Simple, see?

XX + XX = FAIL

XY + XY = FAIL

XX + XY = Human

Every-ist And-ophobe #transphobia #dunning-kruger #pratt #interphobia youtube.com

ANYONE that uses "pronouns" should be cancelled. This is the EXACT PROBLEM. look if your a man and you dress up like a woman and put on makeup you are NOT A WOMAN. And you CANNOT FORCE ME to be a part of your mental illness. Period. NO amount of hormones or makeup will EVER change your DNA only 2 sets of chromosomes XX AND XY THAT 100% FACT AND you can't FORCE me to go against FACTS AMD TRUTH.

ProxyMusic #interphobia ovarit.com

RE: CAIS women

I have no problem considering persons with CAIS as though they were girls and women socially. Biologically, however, they are XY, SRY gene positive males with a DSD that occurs only in males. The sex development and health of females who have the same exact genetic mutations that cause CAIS in males are completely unaffected by those genetic anomalies. Because only male sex development is driven by and dependent on testosterone produced by the testes, and only males can have faulty male androgen receptors.

Also, socially doesn't mean medically. For the sake of people with CAIS's own health and wellbeing, it's crucial that their male sex, genetics and male-only DSD be acknowledged and kept front and center when it comes to matters like medical care, assessing their risks for developing certain diseases, anticipating how diseases will affect them, and treating the diseases and health conditions they develop. Their sex also needs to be taken into account when estimating their life spans for purposes of planning and budgeting for their old age and purchasing longterm care insurance.

their bodies are fully incapable of using testosterone from basically birth, meaning they have no functional male anatomy for basically their whole lives.

But persons with CAIS all develop and are born with testes that produce massive amounts of testosterone, usually in the high end of the normal male range, or exceeding the top end of the normal male range. At birth, CAIS testes also contain the gamete germ cells that in other males will later on develop into sperm. Some researchers today are predicting that with advances in assisted reproductive technologies, the time will come when persons with CAIS will be able to become biological parents.

How exactly do you figure that testes that pump out massive amounts of T and contain male gamete germ cells don't count as "functional male anatomy"?

[...]

PGTips4Lyfe #interphobia #conspiracy #crackpot #pratt #transphobia ovarit.com

I doubt women's sports will be saved. I think that even if they make some guidelines drawing a line in the sand, the line will be weak and modern medicine will make it very easy to "stealth trans" and include intersex people, who may become the new major talking point for inclusion as self-id inevitably is seen as the naked wrong it is (at least for sports).

So womens' sports may indeed be doomed, even if it will peak a lot of people. Why? Theres too many nefarious countries wanting medal prestige at any cost. Think about what China already does to its dissidents. They also punish family members of dissidents, just for being related. No doubt they will trans some number of children in brutal soviet-type experiments and get a rash of gold medals on these stealth trans athletes, either they will force it or it will be coersive due to how poor and desperate their own population is. They may already be doing this or have been doing this. I really wish it wasn't doomed. but that's how it is. Right now is when we need some kind of trans male she-hulk because its a slippery slope from here I think, and if we got some team of Kobe Bryants from Belarus or something beating the shit out of the competition that might peak people enough.

But I digress.

The end of it is only going to happen when the massive scale of child abuse (via child medical experiments) is exposed. However, god only knows this coud take decades or even a century. Think of how long the Boy Scouts of America lasted before their shit was exposed. Think of the Catholic Church. And the trans religion truly is a new religion. The most dangerous one yet, possibly, as it literally has no morals, no obvious tenants besides self-destructive transgression and no central organization.

Anderson Lee Aldrich #homophobia #transphobia #biphobia #interphobia #fundie #psycho #wingnut cnn.com

Gunman kills 5 at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs before patrons confront and stop him, police say

(CNN) -A 22-year-old gunman entered an LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colorado, just before midnight Saturday and immediately opened fire, killing at least five people and injuring 18 others, before patrons confronted and stopped him, police said Sunday.

The suspect in the shooting at Club Q was identified as Anderson Lee Aldrich, according to Colorado Springs Police Chief Adrian Vasquez. He used a long rifle in the shooting, and two firearms were found at the scene, Vasquez said.

At least two people inside the club confronted and fought the gunman and prevented further violence, Vasquez said. “We owe them a great debt of thanks,” he said.

[…]

Of the 18 people injured, several are in critical condition with gunshot wounds, though the exact number was unclear, officials said.

The suspect is being treated at a hospital, police added. Officers did not shoot at him, police said.

Matt Walsh fans #transphobia #wingnut #dunning-kruger #pratt #sexist #homophobia #enbyphobia #interphobia youtube.com

[Context: the following is an excerpt from the description of a video by Professor Dave Explains, where he tries to debunk Matt Walsh’s nonsense]

Since the moment I published this video, it has been targeted by the most disgusting and malicious mob of trolls I have ever seen, far beyond what I ever conceived possible. These are trolls who comment from dozens of sock accounts at once, calling me "groomer", "pedophile", "soy boy", telling me that they bet I watch my wife fuck other guys and then clean up afterwards, the most subhuman things imaginable. They then harvest any reaction they get to call me "triggered", pasting these responses in new comments without context to slander me, and then follow up with abject lies about things I've said or other people have said. The rest of the trolls employ a strategy of outright denying everything in the video and claiming victory, or spamming nonsensical rebuttals in an attempt to change the narrative. There is something heinous behind this concerted attack on reason, simply for exposing Matt Walsh for precisely what he is. It has become an enormous stress, and for this reason comments will be turned off on this video until this otherworldly wave of toxicity has found another target. My outlook on the state of this country has been permanently affected.

Florida Department of Health #transphobia #interphobia floridahealth.gov

The Florida Department of Health wants to clarify evidence recently cited on a fact sheet released by the US Department of Health and Human Services and provide guidance on treating gender dysphoria for children and adolescents.

Systematic reviews on hormonal treatment for young people show a trend of low-quality evidence, small sample sizes, and medium to high risk of bias. A paper published in the International Review of Psychiatry states that 80% of those seeking clinical care will lose their desire to identify with the non-birth sex. One review concludes that "hormonal treatments for transgender adolescents can achieve their intended physical effects, but evidence regarding their psychosocial and cognitive impact is generally lacking."

According to the Merck Manual, “gender dysphoria is characterized by a strong, persistent cross-gender identification associated with anxiety, depression, irritability, and often a wish to live as a gender different from the one associated with the sex assigned at birth.”

Due to the lack of conclusive evidence, and the potential for long-term, irreversible effects, the Department's guidelines are as follows:

* Social gender transition should not be a treatment option for children or adolescents.
* Anyone under 18 should not be prescribed puberty blockers or hormone therapy.
* Gender reassignment surgery should not be a treatment option for children or adolescents.
* Based on the currently available evidence, "encouraging mastectomy, ovariectomy, uterine extirpation, penile disablement, tracheal shave, the prescription of hormones which are out of line with the genetic make-up of the child, or puberty blockers, are all clinical practices which run an unacceptably high risk of doing harm."
*Children and adolescents should be provided social support by peers and family and seek counseling from a licensed provider.

These guidelines do not apply to procedures or treatments for children or adolescents born with a genetically or biochemically verifiable disorder of sex development (DSD). These disorders include, but are not limited to, 46, XX DSD; 46, XY DSD; sex chromosome DSDs; XX or XY sex reversal; and ovotesticular disorder.

The Department’s guidelines are consistent with the age requirement for surgical and non-surgical treatment. These guidelines are also in line with the guidance, reviews, and recommendations from Sweden, Finland, the United Kingdom, and France.

[...]

hard_headed_woman & WatcherattheGates #interphobia #transphobia ovarit.com

Castor Semenya: Double Olympic champion wins appeal at European Court of Human Rights over testosterone rules

( hard_headed_woman )
I've included this in Gender Critical for obvious reasons! He's a man. Furthermore, as bad as it is that women have to deal with the likes of him larping as a woman, I understand his situation is somewhat different from your normal garden variety larper. HOWEVER, how is this going to affect trans identified males in women's sport? Surely, the court realizes Castor has a male body, albeit with abnormal exterior genitals? If those idiot judges can say that Castor is a woman, what about other men larping as women?

I am so furious.

( WatcherattheGates )
This issue is interesting, because it is clear the sports organization doesn't want to come out and say what everyone knows--Semenya is a male. As a result, they made "her" lower her testosterone levels. I say that was a big compromise for the sports org to make.

But if that is not enough for Semenya, then the truth will have to out. Semenya may have been registered at birth as female, but that was a clinical mistake. They are male with genital anomalies. Period.

( hard_headed_woman )
But is it a clinical mistake?

Society can't imagine a man going through life with deformed genitalia, so he's always turned into a woman.

I get the feeling that his family always knew or knew early on.

Alan Page #transphobia #biphobia #interphobia #conspiracy #pratt youtube.com

(Context: the comments under a viral video about oral sex with trans men for gay guys is full of harassment and/or fundies such as this)

This is what seperates the L & G from the rest of the alphabet soup. L&Gs fought for domestic rights like marriage, partner inheritance rights, workplace rights etc. Qu--r anarchism fights for an unlimited age of consent free pansexualised eden and regards so called "monosexuals" as ignorant untermenschen for not wanting to do wild exotic things like buggering horses or f-sting seven year olds. Qu--r theorist Guy Hocquenghem in his "Screwball Asses" gives the game away by talking about how so called gay "nationalists" will probably end up protesting that their rights to self-identify as such will be swept away by this great revolutionary wave. He also says that by making frequent usage of the term "intersex" (irrespective of the reality of the medical condition it supposedly describes) will help to shatter the concept of a strict binary and allow for this brave new world to take over. This has been a part of the "Q" philosophy from the very start (alongside age of consent abolition of course).

Maplefields & xy_equals_guy #interphobia ovarit.com

RE: Genuine conundrum about certain people with CAIS

( Maplefields )
Technically a man, but I wouldn’t have any problem with him in our facilities because socially he passes for a woman and was conditioned as a woman from birth. However, I would have a problem with him in female sports due to fairness.

Edit: This unfortunate CAIS individual shares some physical features with women, but women are more than just boobs and a vagina. Sex isn’t cosmetic. Men and women aren’t cosmetic. So many physical and developmental processes are different between men and women as a result of the evolutionary process to get humans to produce gametes. That’s why he’s not a woman to me. Despite having androgen insensitivity, every cell in his body is XY and he will need male (human) oriented health care. Human male = man.

( xy_equals_guy )
People with significant DSDs are not a problem, and are welcome into women's spaces as they have been raised female and lack the male "weapon". However, they are HUGELY over-represented in womens' sport, and even more so on medal podiums. This is deeply unfair and they have caused far more damage to women's sport than TIMs ever have. This is because a DSD male won a legal case in the 80's to be considered legally female in sport, then the floodgates opened and women's sport has been swarmed with testical carriers ever since.

No DSD male will ever be physically equivalent to females, even the CAIS ones. For example, even if CAIS males somehow had the exact same skeletal structure, collagen structure, lung capacity, heart size, increased red blood cells etc as equivalent XX females (and there's no proof that they do), they inherently lack the reproductive cycle of women. For example, progesterone and oestrogen both affect collagen and thus injury potential, and this is always changing in natal women. CAIS individuals never have this variation to adapt to and work around. They will never have the risk of motherhood to affect their athletic potential or end their career.

They can be honorary women, but their should never have imposed whatever male anatomy they have on women's sport. It is so unfair. Another blatant example is Brittany Griner, but we're not allowed to talk about it.

astro_terf #interphobia #transphobia #ableist ovarit.com

RE: DSDs - How to cut the Gordian knot?
(Submitters note regarding context: discussion about what intersex conditions should categorically exclude someone from women’s spaces)

I would exclude Swyer, CAIS and all other males with DSDs.

Put simply, it's not simply the presence of male sex hormones/ testoterone during development that leads to the physical advantages that males have over females. The presence of female sex hormones during normal development during puberty and afterwards lead to physical disadvantages for women that CAIS males do not experiences.

For example, CAIS males have a height advantage that women do not. Estrogen causes epiphyses to fuse and so women tend to stop growing taller shortly after they reach puberty.

In addition, women develop wider hips to accommodate childbirth, but this is at the cost of an increased likelihood of injuries and a less efficient running stance. See https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/q-angle and https://www.livescience.com/59289-why-men-run-faster-than-women.html . Biological males who have never had any of the benefits of testosterone do not experience the disadvantages from estrogen, which would still give them a leg up on women.